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The return of Declan Ganley

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    #242
    Happy Monday
    Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Happy Monday


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    There is no such thing as a "mandate from the people of Ireland to be Taoiseach". Cowen has the only possible mandate: he was elected by the members of Dáil Eireann.

    No - he was floated into the position when Bertie was outed as corrupt - he should have gone to the country to validate this position at that time.

    Or at the very least he has no right to codemn Declan Ganley as having no mandate - he has received more votes than Cowen has ever done - 70,000 to 13,000 odd.


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    #243
    Dinner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,132 ✭✭✭Dinner


    Happy Monday wrote: »
    No - he was floated into the position when Bertie was outed as corrupt - he should have gone to the country to validate this position at that time.

    No. We don't elect the Taoiseach, we elect TDs and they elect the Taoiseach. While it is generally known who will be Taoiseach before the vote there's nothing to stop the TDs to elect some unknown back bencher.

    Cowen recieved his mandate by the people of Laois-Offaly to be a TD and by the Dail to be Taoiseach.


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    #244
    Happy Monday
    Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Happy Monday


    Dinner wrote: »
    No. We don't elect the Taoiseach, we elect TDs and they elect the Taoiseach. While it is generally known who will be Taoiseach before the vote there's nothing to stop the TDs to elect some unknown back bencher.

    Cowen recieved his mandate by the people of Laois-Offaly to be a TD and by the Dail to be Taoiseach.

    Semantics - Cowen has not received a mandate from the people and he knows it - and he will be turfed out next time an election comes around.

    When we vote NO on referenda we also expect that result to be respected.


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    #245
    Tridion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 44 ✭Tridion


    Happy Monday wrote: »
    No - he was floated into the position when Bertie was outed as corrupt - he should have gone to the country to validate this position at that time.
    I'm afraid this is not a legal requirement. We live in a democracy and follow the laws as adopted by our Dail. If you want it to be a legal requirement that resignation of the Taoiseach requires a general election, go and lobby for it and get it passed. Until then, let's leave the coulda/woulda/shoulda out of it.
    Happy Monday wrote: »
    Or at the very least he has no right to codemn Declan Ganley as having no mandate - he has received more votes than Cowen has ever done - 70,000 to 13,000 odd.
    This is just plain silliness. Ganley's constitutency was much larger because it was part of the European election. You don't seem to be able to accept the stark reality that Ganley was not elected and does not have a mandate. Get over it.


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    #246
    Tridion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 44 ✭Tridion


    Happy Monday wrote: »
    Semantics - Cowen has not received a mandate from the people and he knows it - and he will be turfed out next time an election comes around.
    You're showing your total ignorance of the Irish political system. Taoisigh are given their mandate by the Dail, after being elected as a TD. What part of this are you not getting?

    This is a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty on on Brian Cowen or Fianna Fail.
    Happy Monday wrote: »
    When we vote NO on referenda we also expect that result to be respected.
    It was respected. Last time I checked, the Lisbon Treaty hasn't been ratified.


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    #247
    Happy Monday
    Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Happy Monday


    Tridion wrote: »
    This is a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty on on Brian Cowen or Fianna Fail.

    It was Brian Cowen who said today that Declan Ganley has no mandate.
    My argument is that you don't need to be elected to have a mandate from the people who voted for you - 70,000.
    Opposition spokesmen are given air time all the time and do not hold a position within government - it's recognised that they have a mandate to oppose government policy.

    On European issues you should view Ganley as an opposition spokesman.


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    #248
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Happy Monday wrote: »
    It was Brian Cowen who said today that Declan Ganley has no mandate.
    My argument is that you don't need to be elected to have a mandate from the people who voted for you - 70,000.
    Opposition spokesmen are given air time all the time and do not hold a position within government - it's recognised that they have a mandate to oppose government policy.

    On European issues you should view Ganley as an opposition spokesman.

    The opposition were still elected as TDs


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    #249
    Tridion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 44 ✭Tridion


    Happy Monday wrote: »
    My argument is that you don't need to be elected to have a mandate from the people who voted for you - 70,000.
    You can argue all you want but no matter what way you look at it, Ganley doesn't have a mandate. I'm sorry but the legal definition of a mandate is that you're elected!! You can't just decide that you don't like the legal definition!!
    Happy Monday wrote: »
    Opposition spokesmen are given air time all the time and do not hold a position within government - it's recognised that they have a mandate to oppose government policy.
    They have been elected.
    Happy Monday wrote: »
    On European issues you should view Ganley as an opposition spokesman.
    I view him as a person who wants a No vote. It's not about the government and as much as you would like to make it that way, it isn't. Governments come and go but the reforms brought about by Lisbon will have lasting changes.


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    #250
    Mario007
    Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Mario007


    Happy Monday wrote: »
    It was Brian Cowen who said today that Declan Ganley has no mandate.
    My argument is that you don't need to be elected to have a mandate from the people who voted for you - 70,000.

    thats exactly where you are wrong. because to have a mandate, one must get elected. its the most fundamental requirement, i'm sorry if you cannot comprehend that.


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    #251
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Happy Monday wrote: »
    He did receive 70,000 votes in the North West region in the European election.

    So did Dana!

    Anyway, I wouldn't even worry about Cowen, that is a side issue.

    We had an unelected Government in 94.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #252
    dimbodoyle
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭dimbodoyle


    Didn't Ganley say that if he didn't win the by- election he wudn't campaign against lisbon? Think i remember this from hookie one afternoon afternoon


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    #253
    Mario007
    Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Mario007


    K-9 wrote: »
    So did Dana!

    Anyway, I wouldn't even worry about Cowen, that is a side issue.

    We had an unelected Government in 94.

    the funny thing is if cowen did go to the people when he got the position, he would actually increase the majority of FF in the Dail, with an approval rating of around 70% at that time in the polls. anyways cowen is indeed a side issue and in fact he got the mandate as every other taoiseach.


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    #254
    Mario007
    Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Mario007


    dimbodoyle wrote: »
    Didn't Ganley say that if he didn't win the by- election he wudn't campaign against lisbon? Think i remember this from hookie one afternoon afternoon

    yes indeed he did...thats exactly what makes his return bizarre to say the least


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    #255
    Hippo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭Hippo


    Mario007 wrote: »
    yes indeed he did...thats exactly what makes his return bizarre to say the least


    Bizarre, and utterly predictable.


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    #256
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Apropos: http://www.bloggersforeurope.ie/?p=90


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    #257
    Winters
    Registered Users Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    All ready on Ireland AM this morning. Wonder how long he had this all planned for.


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    #258
    Tridion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 44 ✭Tridion


    And what on earth is he saying about not having as much money as the Yes side!!

    Ireland for Europe and Generation Yes are funded by small donations, most of which are in the range of €10-€20. But Ganley has less money than them? I really, really hope people don't believe him.


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    #259
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    nacho libre wrote: »
    BBVA. BAE Systems Bofors. Diehl BGT Defence.

    these companies are all keen to see the treaty pass. As are people like Peter Sutherland. i'm sure there are many more right-wing organisations that are pro the treaty and who were pro the Iraq war that i'm not aware of. if anyone wants to be even handed about this debate they could point out a few of them or you and others could do what a poster after you suggested: debate the merits of the treaty and forget about who Ganley is.

    Please do link to press releases or news about these

    and who are they giving the money to

    as far as I can see they are not even involved in ireland

    I will not forget who Ganley is, and I will not allow his **** to be swept under the blanket! people like him are dangerous, one only needs to look at US for the 8 years it was under Bush regime to see an example of what happens when neo-cons + military get hold of a country

    Im terrified of things that people like Ganley are capable of, and his record of lying, avoiding questions, not providing policies only underlines what a dangerous man he is


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    #260
    Spiritoftheseventies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    Please do link to press releases or news about these

    and who are they giving the money to

    as far as I can see they are not even involved in ireland

    I will not forget who Ganley is, and I will not allow his **** to be swept under the blanket! people like him are dangerous, one only needs to look at US for the 8 years it was under Bush regime to see an example of what happens when neo-cons + military get hold of a country

    Im terrified of things that people like Ganley are capable of, and his record of lying, avoiding questions, not providing policies only underlines what a dangerous man he is
    Yes he was supposed to be in an interview with Pat Cox on Morning Ireland but he skipped it. As for how dangerous he is thats probably pushing it a bit. All he is doing is campaigning. Say the chances of his party ever getting off the ground in Ireland are very very slim. We will remain a two or three party state (and thats being kind) for the for seeable future.


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    #261
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    bayviewclose wrote: »
    Yes he was supposed to be in an interview with Pat Cox on Morning Ireland but he skipped it. As for how dangerous he is thats probably pushing it a bit. All he is doing is campaigning spreading lies and fear. Say the chances of his party ever getting off the ground in Ireland are very very slim. We will remain a two or three party state (and thats being kind) for the for seeable future.

    FYP


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    #262
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    bayviewclose wrote: »
    Yes he was supposed to be in an interview with Pat Cox on Morning Ireland but he skipped it. As for how dangerous he is thats probably pushing it a bit. All he is doing is campaigning. Say the chances of his party ever getting off the ground in Ireland are very very slim. We will remain a two or three party state (and thats being kind) for the for seeable future.

    as i said before im all for more parties in Ireland, theres room and they are needed

    but Declan has too many connections in "high" (low?) places such as previous member of Bush's Chiefs of Staff who started war in Iraq > Gen Myers

    Ireland does not need dirty neo con tactics and politics, we have our own scum and failures to deal with already

    :(



    there was a whole series of posts recently between me and @Elmo about Lisbon and Irish involvement in the EDA and how 750k was spend on research of bulletproof vests and Irish neutrality

    to put it into comparison Declans company has a 190 million military contract (that we know of) and hes campaigning in Ireland, and still under investigation as no one knows where the money came from

    bad enough we have Shannon debacle, how does our neutrality look when a guy with connections to all the "top brass" in US military and "masterminds" of the Iraq war, is trying to buy his was into politics here


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    #263
    Spiritoftheseventies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    On Pat Kenny now. saying that Intel following their 1.2 billion fine from EU are campaigning for a yes vote to curry favour. And has said on two or three occasions that if there had been a yes vote, this debate would not be happening now. re budget, they say they are practically skint and will be fund raising.


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    #264
    manafana
    Registered Users Posts: 3,484 ✭✭✭manafana


    something very fishy about a man with such an accent telling irish people what they should do, he came out of it ok, but happy ireland am neither had go at him or praised him.
    He has bit look of facist to me and has only his own interests at heart, as was said he runs highly profitable companys.


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    #265
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    There's plenty to criticise about Declan Ganley - his accent and appearance are irrelevant.


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    #266
    Bob_Harris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭Bob_Harris


    manafana wrote: »
    something very fishy about a man with such an accent telling irish people what they should do

    It's interesting that the one "argument" guaranteed to be used by the Yes debaters against Declan Ganley and Nigel Farage goes along the lines of "you Brits can't tell us Irish what to do".

    A strong argument indeed.


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    #267
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Bob_Harris wrote: »
    It's interesting that the one "argument" guaranteed to be used by the Yes debaters against Declan Ganley and Nigel Farage goes along the lines of "you Brits can't tell us Irish what to do".

    A strong argument indeed.

    at least Declan lived here for a while, tho he doesnt sound like a Tuamian (did i just invent a new word? :D), so hes prob not mixing with locals

    Nigel on other hand is clearly using Ireland as a pawn in his agenda to dismantle the EU

    anyways would any presenter have the balls to ask him about his friends in US military? and some friends they are.


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    #268
    Spiritoftheseventies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    at least Declan lived here for a while, tho he doesnt sound like a Tuamian (did i just invent a new word? :D), so hes prob not mixing with locals

    Nigel on other hand is clearly using Ireland as a pawn in his agenda to dismantle the EU

    anyways would any presenter have the balls to ask him about his friends in US military? and some friends they are.
    Actually Pat Kenny did. But Ganley laughed it off. Told Kenny to open the barriers and include some texts from no voters as well.


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    #269
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    bayviewclose wrote: »
    Actually Pat Kenny did. But Ganley laughed it off. Told Kenny to open the barriers and include some texts from no voters as well.

    So he avoided the question...


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    #270
    geuro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭geuro


    I'm a Yes voter.

    Ganley can come back to campaign if he wants. Protesting that he said he would not come back for Lisbon 2, or that he has no mandate is a waste of time. The reality is that he has returned. He has every right to change his mind, I hope the referendum will show that the Irish have also changed their minds.

    We are aware that the source of Ganley's funding is murky at best, and of his business connections. Freaking out and acting like he is some sort of a dark force or that he hails from the Bush regime seems as desperate and sensationalist as the drivel we see on the posters of the COIR campaign.


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    #271
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    Bob_Harris wrote: »
    It's interesting that the one "argument" guaranteed to be used by the Yes debaters against Declan Ganley and Nigel Farage goes along the lines of "you Brits can't tell us Irish what to do".

    A strong argument indeed.

    Actually, if there's one argument to be used against them, it is that they are liars, and they mostly just tell lies...


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