The return of Declan Ganley

BlitzKrieg

As requested by Nesf

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203440104574404643114251588.html#articleTabs%3Darticle


Declan Ganley announces his return to the campaign trail to oppose Lisbon 2.




My opinion, he's adding nothing new in the way of argumentd and it might be a bit late for him to put that respectable polish on the no campaign that he put on it last time. If I remember correctly he was already well into campaigning across the country by the time the yes campaign just started putting itself together.

This time though Coir has beaten him to the punch as the media focus by being first out the door. Though I am curious as to why its the Wall Street Journal that breaks this news first, it just seems rather strange.


I know FutureTaoiseach might feel he will give the no campaign the middle ground it so desperatly needs at the moment but I think he has lost a bit of his sheen from last time and the libertas fiasco, regardless of numbers was not a good press when it failed to amount to anything substantial.

And like I said he's not bringing anything new to the debate in the way of perspective, his complaints are obviously firstly false (he wrongly makes claims of article 48 giving EU carte blanche to amending itself.) and he's taking the same *its undemocratic stance* as all the other no campaigners, granted its a populist position thats easy to sell.

Course we will just have to wait and see what he does tomorrow, it seems FT has the inside track on this so I expect he will keep us informed. All I know is I'll be getting more hate mail on my youtube account.

On a side note does this mean all his money issues that were rumoured post european elections have been sorted?

FutureTaoiseach

If you mean SIPO, they seem to have given Libertas a clean bill of health, calling the funding a "bona-fide loan" (July 11th Irish Times)

Irish Times wrote:

Meanwhile, it said the €200,000 loan by businessman Declan Ganley would “seem to indicate that it is a bona fide loan”. Libertas, it said, provided a copy of the loan agreement and confirmed it did not receive any other loans.The Lisbon referendum last year highlighted “significant weaknesses” in the laws governing the activities of third-party organisations in such campaigns. Groups that spend €5,000 on a campaign should be “required to show how their campaign” was funded, while limits on the type and amount of donations would apply. The commission welcomed the Government’s intention to stiffen rules governing the involvement of such organisations in referendums.

.

BlitzKrieg

no I meant all the money he sank into libertas for the european elections, didnt some of the party elements in the continent come out saying he hasnt paid them or something?

link: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0612/1224248690587.html

patrickthomas

This will add some much needed balance to this political fiasco that is called a "debate"

It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings, and she's still clearing her throat

BlitzKrieg

This will add some much needed balance to this political fiasco that is called a "debate"

It didnt last time.

Nor did it any at the european elections.

Scofflaw

Looks like COIR have realised they're a drug on the market, and have wheeled out their 'respectable' front man.

So much for his promise of only 10 weeks ago not to campaign in Lisbon 2 if he wasn't elected.

amused,
Scofflaw

patrickthomas

Scofflaw wrote: »

Looks like COIR have realised they're a drug on the market, and have wheeled out their 'respectable' front man.

So much for his promise of only 10 weeks ago not to campaign in Lisbon 2 if he wasn't elected.

amused,
Scofflaw

But 10 weeks is a long time in politics Scofflaw, or are you new to politics?
The next few weeks will be very interesting to say the least. Ganley has no connection to COIR whatsoever, but keep up the allegations, they are funny.:pac:

patrickthomas

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

It didnt last time.

Nor did it any at the european elections.

You don't think he will make a difference?

FutureTaoiseach

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

no I meant all the money he sank into libertas for the european elections, didnt some of the party elements in the continent come out saying he hasnt paid them or something?

link: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0612/1224248690587.html

John McGuirk told me a few seconds ago following correspondance from me that the Dutch issue is settled and the money paid. I really want to show you a placard they've coming up with but I have promised to wait. Let's just say that it's inspired.

meglome

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

John McGuirk told me a few seconds ago following correspondance from me that the Dutch issue is settled and the money paid. I really want to show you a placard they've coming up with but I have promised to wait. Let's just say that it's inspired.

I have a serious question which maybe you can answer for me. Is the information on this poster actually true?

Because honestly I've never seen a campaign that has so many dirty tricks in it outside of an American one.

FutureTaoiseach

meglome wrote: »

I have a serious question which maybe you can answer for me. Is the information on this poster actually true?

Because honestly I've never seen a campaign that has so many dirty tricks in it outside of an American one.

In my opinion it is true. It's actually a very large placard not a poster.

The launch is Sunday btw.

ei.sdraob

so much for all the NO siders saying

"at least Declan can take no for an answer"

rofl

hypocrisy and lying, that pretty much sums up the no campaign

Sam Vimes

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

In my opinion it is true.

So that's a no then.

I'm going to hazard a guess that the scary prediction on this poster could possibly happen if you assume that the EU is run by evil people who spend all their time trying to steal Irish freedom and fish but otherwise won't. Am I close?

Macha

Sam Vimes wrote: »

I'm going to hazard a guess that the scary prediction on this poster could possibly happen if you assume that the EU is run by evil people who spend all their time trying to steal Irish freedom and fish but otherwise won't.

Declan Ganley thinks we're gollums? Scarily close to the 'giant lizard' theory.

Keewee6

good to see him involved - sure he said he wouldnt get involved if he wasnt elected but so wat - the gov said they the "respected" the no vote - glad to see him back

Spiritoftheseventies

OP. What Ganley said at end of August in a broadsheet. So no return for Ganley in other words!

No plans, I gave it my best. If there's a 'No', with the cross-party 'leadership' we have in Ireland they'll just make us 'vote' again anyway," he wrote on the online discussion forum Twitter. "In short, no plans to be involved, waste of time."


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/return-to-lisbon-fight-a-waste-of-time--ganley-1873522.html

ei.sdraob

Keewee6 wrote: »

good to see him involved - sure he said he wouldnt get involved if he wasnt elected but so wat - the gov said they the "respected" the no vote - glad to see him back

they did respect the note vote, researched why people voted the way they did

and went back to eu to renegotiate and get agreements


Declan on the other hand had a pissy fit because, people not elected him, and then decided to ask for a recount which ended up proving that even less people voted for him


spot the difference!

the government are doing what people elected them to do

Libertas are unelected are doing what their military connections are telling them to do


which part of the word "democracy" do you not understand?

Keewee6

ei.sdraob wrote: »

they did respect the note vote, researched why people voted the way they did

and went back to eu to renegotiate and get agreements


Declan on the other hand had a pissy fit because, people not elected him, and then decided to ask for a recount which ended up proving that even less people voted for him


spot the difference!

the government are doing what people elected them to do

Libertas are unelected are doing what their military connections are telling them to do


which part of the word "democracy" do you not understand?

and he is entitled to "change his mind" wouldnt you agree - great to see him back - if it was "democracy" it should have being re run in "ALL" do u "get it"

is_that_so

Ganley's big advantage the last time was that he got a free five month run at it to promote Libertas. He also had the good fortune to have a political establishment that didn't feel the need to campaign and used Lisbon as a photo op. With three weeks to go, getting a campaign launched and having a major impact is questionable especially as he is coming into it at a time when there are a considerable number of opponents who will relish debunking his position.

As they say about politics, all careers end in failure and Ganley really should have listened. Last year he was a new voice , now he's merely a failed election candidate.

Spiritoftheseventies

is_that_so wrote: »

Ganley's big advantage the last time was that he got a free five month run at it to promote Libertas. He also had the good fortune to have a political establishment that didn't feel the need to campaign and used Lisbon as a photo op. With three weeks to go, getting a campaign launched and having a major impact is questionable especially as he is coming into it at a time when there are a considerable number of opponents who will relish debunking his position.

As they say about politics, all careers end in failure and Ganley really should have listened. Last year he was a new voice , now he's merely a failed election candidate.

Again. What Ganley said about coming back.
No plans, I gave it my best. If there's a 'No', with the cross-party 'leadership' we have in Ireland they'll just make us 'vote' again anyway," he wrote on the online discussion forum Twitter. "In short, no plans to be involved, waste of time."

is_that_so

bayviewclose wrote: »

Again. What Ganley said about coming back.
No plans, I gave it my best. If there's a 'No', with the cross-party 'leadership' we have in Ireland they'll just make us 'vote' again anyway," he wrote on the online discussion forum Twitter. "In short, no plans to be involved, waste of time."

Is there a point to repeating something you've already posted at the top of the page, which incidentally has nothing to do with what I posted?

ei.sdraob

Keewee6 wrote: »

and he is entitled to "change his mind" wouldnt you agree - great to see him back

his entitled to do whatever he pleases (within law of course)

but this just shows that his word means ****


btw have they still got around to publishing Libertas policies? its been 2-3 months after EU elections since their website promised to provide policies

not only do they not have policies but now we all know they cant be trusted in anything they say

Keewee6

same with the gov as far as im concerned

Sam Vimes

Keewee6 wrote: »

the gov said they the "respected" the no vote

*facepalm*

Spiritoftheseventies

is_that_so wrote: »

Is there a point to repeating something you've already posted at the top of the page, which incidentally has nothing to do with what I posted?

Yes there is. Ganley has stated he is not entering campaign. And made a vow that if he did not get a mandate from people in Euro elections he would bow out of Lisbon two debate (link below one of many). See no point of continuing this thread as it merely putting up a mis truth which "some" yes Campaigners have accused No campaign of.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8088699.stm

Keewee6

Sam Vimes wrote: »

*facepalm*

*facepalm*

K-9

ei.sdraob wrote: »

his entitled to do whatever he pleases (within law of course)

but this just shows that his word means ****


btw have they still got around to publishing Libertas policies? its been 2-3 months after EU elections since their website promised to provide policies

not only do they not have policies but now we all know they cant be trusted in anything they say

IIRC, it was like that for a couple of months before the EU Elections. They'll probably just do a cut and paste job, like Higgins does!

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes there is. Ganley has stated he is not entering campaign. And made a vow that if he did not get a mandate from people in Euro elections he would bow out of Lisbon two debate (link below one of many). See no point of continuing this thread as it merely putting up a mis truth which "some" yes Campaigners have accused No campaign of.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8088699.stm

Great to see the No side wriggling!

is_that_so

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes there is. Ganley has stated he is not entering campaign. And made a vow that if he did not get a mandate from people in Euro elections he would bow out of Lisbon two debate (link below one of many). See no point of continuing this thread as it merely putting up a mis truth which "some" yes Campaigners have accused No campaign of.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8088699.stm

And let me repeat. My comments have nothing to do with any of this. I've seen posts of yours on another thread where you decry the wholesale labelling of all No voters. It works both ways. As regards my post it would have been nice if you'd actually read what I wrote and not lump it in with your perception of this thread.

Sam Vimes

bayviewclose wrote: »

as it merely putting up a mis truth which "some" yes Campaigners have accused No campaign of.

I'd say that all yes campaigners have accused "some" of the no campaigners of lying. If they actually believed all of the stuff every no campaigner said and were still yes campaigners, I'd question their sanity

Euro_Kraut

This article is remarkable :http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203440104574404643114251588.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

No mention whatsoever of the word 'Libertas' or the fact that he ran and lost on the European elections. How could a respected publication make such an oversight?

Spiritoftheseventies

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

This article is remarkable :http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203440104574404643114251588.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

No mention whatsoever of the word 'Libertas' or the fact that he ran and lost on the European elections. How could a respected publication make such an oversight?

Sorry no mention of Ganley returning here. And if he had it would have been all over the front pages given his declaration to stay out of Lisbon two campaing after failing to win seat in last Euro elections. Anyone any other links?

PopeBuckfastXVI

bayviewclose wrote: »

Sorry no mention of Ganley returning here. And if he had it would have been all over the front pages given his declaration to stay out of Lisbon two campaing after failing to win seat in last Euro elections. Anyone any other links?

I would take FutureTaoiseach's word on it if he said that Ganley was going to be involved or not. I would trust that he would know.

Spiritoftheseventies

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

I would take FutureTaoiseach's word on it if he said that Ganley was going to be involved or not. I would trust that he would know.

He gave an interview to Wall Street Journal. Thats not campaigning. He gave an interview and Twitter picked up on it. But he also said on same pages that he was enjoying life as a private citizen in small box accompanying panel.
To best of my knowledge interview was not picked up in Irish papers probably given that since he has not put forward his name as anti No lobbyist it probably cant be carried as it might duly influence the vote.
link below anyway
http://faduda.ie/?p=1784

PopeBuckfastXVI

bayviewclose wrote: »

He gave an interview to Wall Street Journal. Thats not campaigning. He gave an interview and Twitter picked up on it. But he also said on same pages that he was enjoying life as a private citizen in small box accompanying panel.
To best of my knowledge interview was not picked up in Irish papers probably given that since he has not put forward his name as anti No lobbyist it probably cant be carried as it might duly influence the vote.
link below anyway
http://faduda.ie/?p=1784

If FT says he is in or out, I will believe him, that's all I've said.

Oafley Jones

Can't see him getting anywhere near the exposure he had last time out - which was substantial. He's nothing more than a curio at this stage and I'd wager a lot of producers would question the merit of him appearing on any panels.

Spiritoftheseventies

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

If FT says he is in or out, I will believe him, that's all I've said.

Yes but what im saying that if he is in why would he give an interview to that publication where probably no one or not that many would see it. Either he wants to get his message across or not. Have you seen any libertas or Ganley posters about?

PopeBuckfastXVI

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes but what im saying that if he is in why would he give an interview to that publication where probably no one or not that many would see it. Either he wants to get his message across or not. Have you seen any libertas or Ganley posters about?

FT stated yesterday that the Libertas campaign was going to be starting up today.

I asked if DG was going to be involved and FT said he 'thinks so'.

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

I think so yes. Maybe not on the same scale as before. But they have big placards and I have a picture of one, but I've been asked to wait till the launch so I will. Shock and awe and all.

Spiritoftheseventies

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

FT stated yesterday that the Libertas campaign was going to be starting up today.

I asked if DG was going to be involved and FT said he 'thinks so'.

Well its hearsay at the moment. And very surprised no one has picked up on it. I would have thought Ganley would have had to notify EU of his intentions. And that media would then get a list of various yes and No campaigns.
For Ganley to enter at this late stage having stated his intention not to put his name fortune following his Euro election would make him look very stupid. He said on numerous occasions that he would stand by what happened in Euro elections. He had no mandate. he accepted that. What seems to be the implication now is he ignoring the lack of mandate to run a shot gun campaign with three weeks to go.

PopeBuckfastXVI

Out of curiosity FT, what's the difference between a 'big placard' and a poster?

Are we going to be treated to a full billboard Libertas advertising campaign again?

If so I shall look forward to contacting the ASAI for any 'inaccuracies' which might accidentally slip in...

PopeBuckfastXVI

bayviewclose wrote: »

Well its hearsay at the moment. And very surprised no one has picked up on it. I would have thought Ganley would have had to notify EU of his intentions. And that media would then get a list of various yes and No campaigns.
For Ganley to enter at this late stage having stated his intention not to put his name fortune following his Euro election would make him look very stupid. He said on numerous occasions that he would stand by what happened in Euro elections. He had no mandate. he accepted that. What seems to be the implication now is he ignoring the lack of mandate to run a shot gun campaign with three weeks to go.

Yep.

ei.sdraob

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

How could a respected publication make such an oversight?

a brown enevelope full of €$£$€'s

Spiritoftheseventies

is_that_so wrote: »

And let me repeat. My comments have nothing to do with any of this. I've seen posts of yours on another thread where you decry the wholesale labelling of all No voters. It works both ways. As regards my post it would have been nice if you'd actually read what I wrote and not lump it in with your perception of this thread.

To quote
"Ganley's big advantage the last time was that he got a free five month run at it to promote Libertas. He also had the good fortune to have a political establishment that didn't feel the need to campaign and used Lisbon as a photo op. With three weeks to go, getting a campaign launched and having a major impact is questionable especially as he is coming into it at a time when there are a considerable number of opponents who will relish debunking his position.

As they say about politics, all careers end in failure and Ganley really should have listened. Last year he was a new voice , now he's merely a failed election candidate."

He gave an interview to a foreign trade magazine. Dont think thats constitutes as campaigning.
All that was reported in Indo (via twitter) was that he thought to campaign again would be a waste of time.
And I have not seen his remarks from Wall Street magazine being reprinted for reasons stated in previous post.
So to sum up, Ganley is not part of this campaign.

ei.sdraob

bayviewclose wrote: »

So to sum up, Ganley is not part of this campaign.

will we get to see who is paying for it this time around?

Spiritoftheseventies

ei.sdraob wrote: »

will we get to see who is paying for it this time around?

Sorry Ganley is not part of the campaign. Maybe Libertas (perhapssomeone can post up some street posters of Libertas campaign if indeed they are up and running).
Know Higgins has posters up in Dublin but not everywhere. Coir posters up everywhere and I know one of those posters were used in last campaign too. Dont know what the rules are about using same posters but i assume they can be recycled.

Hitman Actual

bayviewclose wrote: »

Sorry Ganley is not part of the campaign. Maybe Libertas (perhapssomeone can post up some street posters of Libertas campaign if indeed they are up and running).
Know Higgins has posters up in Dublin but not everywhere. Coir posters up everywhere and I know one of those posters were used in last campaign too. Dont know what the rules are about using same posters but i assume they can be recycled.

Newstalk are carrying the story in their news bulletins that he's back "leading" a campaign against Lisbon. They were low on details, and there's every chance they're misinformed as well, but the story is definitely growing.

is_that_so

bayviewclose wrote: »

To quote
"Ganley's big advantage the last time was that he got a free five month run at it to promote Libertas. He also had the good fortune to have a political establishment that didn't feel the need to campaign and used Lisbon as a photo op. With three weeks to go, getting a campaign launched and having a major impact is questionable especially as he is coming into it at a time when there are a considerable number of opponents who will relish debunking his position.

As they say about politics, all careers end in failure and Ganley really should have listened. Last year he was a new voice , now he's merely a failed election candidate."

He gave an interview to a foreign trade magazine. Dont think thats constitutes as campaigning.
All that was reported in Indo (via twitter) was that he thought to campaign again would be a waste of time.
And I have not seen his remarks from Wall Street magazine being reprinted for reasons stated in previous post.
So to sum up, Ganley is not part of this campaign.

This is just a commentary on the possible news of Ganley's involvement and offering my own perspective on that possibility. Nowhere do I say that he will be part of it but I certainly do speculate on the wisdom of it.

Spiritoftheseventies

Hitman Actual wrote: »

Newstalk are carrying the story in their news bulletins that he's back "leading" a campaign against Lisbon. They were low on details, and there's every chance they're misinformed as well, but the story is definitely growing.

Yes reporter on One O Clock news says there were no developments on No Side today. Like you said it might develop during the day. Would be a huge story if Ganley re-entered the debate but no point talking about it until we get some concrete confirmation on main bulletins later.

PopeBuckfastXVI

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes reporter on One O Clock news says there were no developments on No Side today. Like you said it might develop during the day. Would be a huge story if Ganley re-entered the debate but no point talking about it until we get some concrete confirmation on main bulletins later.

Quite often the news breaks on sites like boards.ie, because it has such a diverse cast of characters contributing. For instance FT is involved with Libertas (to what extent, I don't know), and will likely know the story before it is 'officially' announced, on the main news channels or papers.

There's nothing inherently wrong about speculating whether Ganley will or won't return, or even discussing what that event would mean.

ei.sdraob

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Quite often the news breaks on sites like boards.ie, because it has such a diverse cast of characters contributing. For instance FT is involved with Libertas (to what extent, I don't know), and will likely know the story before it is 'officially' announced, on the main news channels or papers.

There's nothing inherently wrong about speculating whether Ganley will or won't return, or even discussing what that event would mean.

tinfoil hat on ...

what if "FutureTaoiseach" is*Ganley himself :eek:

the guy has some serious aspirations

... tinfoil hat off


i didnt know FT was involved with them, i like his posts here as he knows how to debate

skelliser

no this appeared first on politics.ie., they broke it not boards

ei.sdraob

skelliser wrote: »

no this appeared first on politics.ie., they broke it not boards

aint the head guy running that site involved with Libertas