Complaint about teacher

rainbowtrout

deemark wrote: »

Hillel's advice is good-following the procedures and chain of command is your only option. Bear in mind that every school does not have a complaints procedure and that the DES will not be interested in one parent's complaint about one teacher in one school and will only redirect you to the school. Going to the media creates a risk of slander.

The other thing I'd like to add is: don't hold your breath. Under-performing permanent teachers are more or less impossible to get rid of. The word of a few disgruntled students and parents won't do it. However, if a large group of parents decide to take action, all incidents of inappropriate behaviour need to be documented, but the wheels move very slowly. Even if something happens, your son could be facing his exams before anything happens. Your most expedient course of action is to get your son moved to another class.

Probably the best course of action in the short term. As deemark said, these things tend to get drawn out and it could be the end of the school year before anything actually happens.

If you can't get your son moved to a different class, then your only option is perhaps grinds, obviously this will be of benefit to your son, but of course works detrimentally if reports from this class are accurate, as good results will indicate that the class is being taught adequately, regardless of where the student received their knowledge.

Also the word of one parent might just be seen as a clash of personalities between the teacher and student. It doesn't help if the student has a track record of being a troublemaker (not suggesting that your son is, but reports do need to be consistent and perhaps not just from one person).

Larianne

2qk4u wrote: »

The principle wants the teacher gone but his hands are tied, the teacher refuses to talk to him or a parent. My son is entitled to his education but cant get it because of this teacher.

I went through school thinking I was shockin at Maths. I did an access course last year and came out with 92% in the Maths exam. Horrible to know there's teachers out there that just can't teach and end up giving kids low confidence in their ability.

I wouldn't go to the papers. Go over the principal's head is the way to go like others have said.

pjtb

There was a teacher in my school that parents had been trying to get rid of for years, decades even. This teacher used to
-read the paper during class
-come in 5 minutes late, say there was too much time gone to start, so let the class do their homework for the other 35 minutes
-bring students out golfing during english class
-show the class videos of himself on holidays, and loosely connect it to the theme of geography
When he actually did teach, he taught outdated material/methods, very poorly. He never taught a Leaving Cert class, while I was there anyway, the principal obviously knew that there would be war if he taught anything other than Junior Cert subjects (which obviously weren't as important, but should still not have been neglected).
This teacher never got 'the sack', he retired recently, and it seems that that was the only way to get rid of him. It wasn't early retirement mind, he was the right age.

Another teacher used to lock himself and his students in to the room, so that the student who came a little bit late couldn't get in. Those who were late waited outside for a while before he let them in and gave out to them. This was in the last few years. This HAS to have been against insurance policy, especially seen as the class was locked into a SCIENCE lab, where anything could have happened.

How teachers get away with these things, I don't know, but unfortunately it seems that the only way a teacher can be fired is if some sort of abuse occurs. It's a terrible state of affairs.

Hillel

deemark wrote: »

Hillel's advice is good-following the procedures and chain of command is your only option. Bear in mind that every school does not have a complaints procedure and that the DES will not be interested in one parent's complaint about one teacher in one school and will only redirect you to the school. Going to the media creates a risk of slander.

The other thing I'd like to add is: don't hold your breath. Under-performing permanent teachers are more or less impossible to get rid of. The word of a few disgruntled students and parents won't do it. However, if a large group of parents decide to take action, all incidents of inappropriate behaviour need to be documented, but the wheels move very slowly. Even if something happens, your son could be facing his exams before anything happens. Your most expedient course of action is to get your son moved to another class.

randylonghorn wrote: »

Just one additional comment on this: it also escalates the situation, a bit like going to nuclear war over a border skirmish. You risk facing closed doors where you might otherwise have got some help, or at the least having everyone wary of even speaking to you for fear they will find themselves quoted in the newspaper.

All schools are supposed to have procedures in place. If your son's school doesn't, follow the procedure I outlined. You are putting down a marker at each stage that you are serious and will not be fobbed of. In my experience it will get things sorted.

I agree with deemark and randylonghorn that you don't want to escalate the situation, unnecessarily. What you want is to sort out the situation for your child, in what is an already stressful year. Simply work towards a resolution that benefits him the most. (I would also be cautious, at least as a first resort, about involving any third party - including the parents association. The more people are involved the more difficult it will be to reach an amicable solution in a timely fashion.)

Under no circumstances try to "sort out" the teacher. If there really is a problem, you are helping both the Principal and the BOM by going through all the steps. Any committed Principal, and experienced BOM will want to address problems with staff. However, as other posters have said, this takes a very considerable amount of time. Leave them to it.

K4t

I wish parents went to this much effort to get disruptive students thrown out of a school. There are far more of them than bad teachers.

Niamhf

I advise that you get your son grinds in the subject concerned before it's too late. I was in a similar position during my junior cert for Irish (HL), my mum complained about the teacher to the principal but nothing was done! The teacher retired when I got to TY! The institute of education in leeson street offer Saturday classes which are great, many students study subjects outside of school there, everything is covered and the notes are amazing!

Hillel

Niamhf wrote: »

I advise that you get your son grinds in the subject concerned before it's too late.

Unfortunately, Niamhf is right, if you can afford to, arranging grinds might be a useful fall-back position

Niamhf wrote: »

I was in a similar position during my junior cert for Irish (HL), my mum complained about the teacher to the principal but nothing was done!

That is why it is essential to go through the procedure I outlined, 1st the teacher, then the Principal, then the BOM, - all formal and recorded. "Doing nothing" is then not an option for the Principal." In fairness, unless you go through such a procedure there is very little that a Principal, or indeed a BOM, can do. The teacher is entitled to fair play too!

bernardo mac wrote: »

It is likely your son has a Class Teacher,that is the person who monitors his progress and should be aware of any day to day difficulties that one of his/her students is experiencing and will communicate concerns to the Year Head who in turn reports to the Principal,if need be.

This would be good advice if the concern of the OP was in relation to general day-to-day problems that any student can experience at school.
It is not appropriate where a student is having substantial problems with a particular teacher, regardless of who is the party at fault. In the vast majority of cases the teacher in question will be a colleague of the "Class Teacher" and "Year Head". This means that both would be in an impossible position trying to deal with a potential breach of discipline by a teacher. In such cases the line of school authority should always be followed - i.e. teacher, Principal (or Vice Principal is the Principal is not available), BOM.

Lawliet

pjtb wrote: »

There was a teacher in my school that parents had been trying to get rid of for years, decades even. This teacher used to
-read the paper during class
-come in 5 minutes late, say there was too much time gone to start, so let the class do their homework for the other 35 minutes
-bring students out golfing during english class

I had a similar teacher for science at JC. He hated my class in particular and refused to teach us anything in third year, he'd just sit at the back of the room reading the paper. Almost everyone was getting grinds.

23border

Have you actually complained to the Principal about the bullying situation? If so and the teacher does the same thing again, make sure your son doesn't go back to the class. On health and safety grounds no one can make him. Also once there has been a complaint the principal must act. Tell the principal that your child is being deprived of an education and if it is not sorted quickly ie a new teacher for him, then you will be phoning the department. If you ring the department make sure you have facts as in "my child was told ......on this day at this time".
Tell your son the next time the teacher shouts at him to say "There is no need to shout at me I can hear you perfectly". If the teacher shouts again walk out of the class immediately and go to the principal and refuse to go back to the class until the parentals are called. It's no different to a work situation, you ask someone to stop shouting at you and they continue then it is bullying in the work place.
My advice for dealing with the principal is to deal only with what has happened to your son and dont bring into the situation what has happened previous years. Also, take a stance against the principal and tell him you want this sorted out asap. He may want the same thing but he may be willing to use softer methods than needed to end what is happening. Do not act like he is your friend and do not side with him.
No harm for your son to start keeping a little note book of the teachers work in class. For example, Monday 9-9.40 read one paragraph. Tuesday, did not turn up and so on. Easier to battle when evidence and fact is on your side and not relying solely on emotion.
Good Luck

Hillel

23border wrote: »

Tell the principal that your child is being deprived of an education and if it is not sorted quickly ie a new teacher for him, then you will be phoning the department. If you ring the department make sure you have facts as in "my child was told ......on this day at this time".

The Education Act 1998 gives a statutory basis for school Boards of Management. The board, not the Dept. of Ed. & Science, is responsible for what goes on in a school. If you approach the D Ed., without first going through the BOM ,they will, rightly, refer you back to the school. The process is: 1) Teacher, 2) Principal, 3) BOM.

The advice to keep a written record is sound. In fact, in any substantive issue with a school it is always good practice to keep a written record. (e.g. You agree a course of action with a teacher at a parent teacher meeting. Drop the teacher a friendly note, afterwards, stating your understanding of what you agreed.)

23border

Yeah but once bullying is reported it doesnt have to go to the board of management. There is obvious bias as often the principal and teacher representatives sit on it. Also, the board does not meet all that often. I say run to the department first and have a letter written to the board of management. Explain to the department this is a matter of utmost urgency and your child's education can't be held back while they meet, hold meetings, investigate, report back and then take action.

2qk4u

Thanks again for the replies,
I have sent a note to the school principle stating that my son is under no circumstances to attend the class or any class with that teacher in it.
On monday I will be sending a letter to the guy over the principle, got his details today and he is on the BOM.
I will be giving them a time frame to respond to me before I inform the dept of education and the childrens ombudsman and the schools insurer.

Some points to clarify, my son is not the only child being bullied by this teacher.
There is no other class available for my son.
We have kept a record of every event this school year.

rainbowtrout

23border wrote: »

Yeah but once bullying is reported it doesnt have to go to the board of management. There is obvious bias as often the principal and teacher representatives sit on it. Also, the board does not meet all that often. I say run to the department first and have a letter written to the board of management. Explain to the department this is a matter of utmost urgency and your child's education can't be held back while they meet, hold meetings, investigate, report back and then take action.

The BOM in my school meets once a month, and has had emergency meetings on a more frequent basis for urgent or serious issues. A typical BOM is made up of teachers' representatives (we are allowed have representation, after all we can have issues within the school as well), parents' representatives, perhaps religious representatives/vec reps depending on what kind of school it is. Again there is no point going to the Dept, they will refer the parent back to the board, and won't entertain it if they find that that has been the parents first port of call.

Imagine the following conversation:
Parent: I want to make a complaint about a teacher in X school
Dept: Have you spoke to principal/BOM?
Parent: No
Dept: Speak to principal and then take up your grievance with BOM if you can't reach a solution.


And demanding the Dept take action because of the urgent nature of one childs education is just not going to work.

rainbowtrout

2qk4u wrote: »

Thanks again for the replies,
I have sent a note to the school principle stating that my son is under no circumstances to attend the class or any class with that teacher in it.
On monday I will be sending a letter to the guy over the principle, got his details today and he is on the BOM.
I will be giving them a time frame to respond to me before I inform the dept of education and the childrens ombudsman and the schools insurer.

Some points to clarify, my son is not the only child being bullied by this teacher.
There is no other class available for my son.
We have kept a record of every event this school year.

This might take time OP. What will probably happen is that you may have a meeting with the principal to see if a solution can be reached. Obviously the main problem is that your son does not have another class to go to. If it goes to BOM, it might not be dealt with until their next meeting, you could be lucky and it could be in a few days time, or in a month's time. If they choose to have an emergency meeting to deal with this situation, each member of the board will have to be given notice of the meeting, the meeting will take place and you may then be informed of the outcome. So it probably won't happen overnight.

implausible

23border wrote: »

...the board of management. There is obvious bias as often the principal and teacher representatives sit on it.

As is right, there would be a bias if no teachers were on it. Teachers are represented on the board, they don't run it. BOMs deal with an awful lot more than parental complaints.

2qk4u wrote: »

On monday I will be sending a letter to the guy over the principle, got his details today and he is on the BOM.

Again, most BOMs is made up of several representatives of parents, teachers, the community or a church (depends on the type of school). I doubt that there is only one guy over the principal. You have the name of one of the members of the BOM. You need to get some more names and lobby/contact them. Even so, the chances of a meeting being called especially are slim, unless there is a large amount of parents/Parents' Association voicing concern.

randylonghorn

deemark wrote: »

I doubt that there is only one guy over the principal.

The only person that might fit that description is the CEO of the VEC if it is a VEC school, and it would be likely that s/he (or possibly an EO in a big VEC) would sit on the BOM as well.

Whether that is the case or not, writing officially to the Chair of the BOM would be wise.

As has been repeated several times, the Department or outside bodies will normally refuse to interfere until at the very least all normal local channels have been exhausted.

implausible

randylonghorn wrote: »

The only person that might fit that description is the CEO of the VEC if it is a VEC school, and it would be likely that s/he (or possibly an EO in a big VEC) would sit on the BOM as well.

Whether that is the case or not, writing officially to the Chair of the BOM would be wise.

Neither the EO or CEO sits on our BOM and it was the same in my last school, it's reps from the VEC who do. The OP needs to find out who is the chair this time as well.

randylonghorn

deemark wrote: »

Neither the EO or CEO sits on our BOM and it was the same in my last school, it's reps from the VEC who do.

Dublin?

I'm more used to dealing with smaller, rural VECs, where it has normally been both. I really couldn't speak for norms in Dublin.

implausible

randylonghorn wrote: »

Dublin?

I'm more used to dealing with smaller, rural VECs, where it has normally been both. I really couldn't speak for norms in Dublin.

Jaysus no! Large rural VEC. Thought the rules on the composition of BOMs were the same across the board, but that sounds far too much like common sense.....:rolleyes:

randylonghorn

deemark wrote: »

Jaysus no! Large rural VEC. Thought the rules on the composition of BOMs were the same across the board, but that sounds far too much like common sense.....:rolleyes:

In fairness, it's a couple of years since I dealt with them much, things may have changed / been standardised.

Anyway ... probably not a discussion of much use to the OP!

Hillel

23border wrote: »

Yeah but once bullying is reported it doesnt have to go to the board of management.

Yes it does, the BOM is legally responsible for running the school.

23border wrote: »

Yeah but once bullying is reported it doesnt have to go to the board of management. There is obvious bias as often the principal and teacher representatives sit on it.

The composition of BOM's vary slightly, dependent on the type of school: VEC, Comprehensive, Voluntary, whatever. However, every board has the School Principal as Secretary and includes parent and teacher representatives. (It is not possible to have a standardised board structure for all schools as some are state owned and some are privately owned.) Your allegation of bias is substantially unwarranted. Board members are duty bound to act in the interests of the school as a whole. By and large, this is what happens.

2qk4u wrote: »

Thanks again for the replies,
I have sent a note to the school principle stating that my son is under no circumstances to attend the class or any class with that teacher in it.
On monday I will be sending a letter to the guy over the principle, got his details today and he is on the BOM.
I will be giving them a time frame to respond to me before I inform the dept of education and the childrens ombudsman and the schools insurer.

Some points to clarify, my son is not the only child being bullied by this teacher.
There is no other class available for my son.
We have kept a record of every event this school year.

I understand your desire to get this finished, quickly. However, an allegation of bullying is extremely serious and you simply cannot bypass the necessary steps. Also be extremely careful in how you discuss this problem with others. Everyone is entitled to their good name and you could find yourself being sued for slander! A written ultimatum to the School Principal is highly unlikely to get the result you want to achieve. Likewise, the BOM will not consider a complaint that has not gone through the formal procedure - nor should they. The board has to be satisfied that a substantive issue exists and that it cannot be dealt with appropriately by the Principal.

A typical scenario, could pan out as follows:

You ask for a meeting with the Principal to discuss your concerns. Given the nature of the concern the Principal will most likely want a witness to sit in with him/her. (In many cases that 2nd person would be the chairperson of the BOM.) Likewise you should bring a partner, spouse, friend, whatever. The Principal listens to your concern and promises to get back to you. You should insist on a date for a response. (A 1-2 week timescale would be reasonable.)

In many cases the Principal will revert back with an acceptable compromise. Sometimes this might take a number of meetings. Remember, what you want is a solution for your child. If an acceptable solution can't be reached you tell the Principal this and ask that the issue be referred to the BOM.

Depending on your relationship with the Principal, you may need to formally request that the issue be raised with the BOM at their next board meeting. (In many cases the Principal will do this automatically.) If you believe that the issue warrants it you can request an emergency board meeting. You need to write to either the Secretary (normally the School Principal) or Chairperson of the BOM care of the school. You should outline the brief facts of the case, as you see them and ask that they address the issue urgently.

The likelihood is that it will take a number of weeks for the board to formally consider the issue. You cannot rush this. The teacher will have to be informed of the allegation against him/her and legal advice may have to be sought etc. How the board will proceed depends on the information available to them, which includes legal advice, protocols agreed with the Dept. of Ed., etc.

You should get an acknowledge of your complaint from the BOM within a week and an update on progress within 2-4 weeks. If no progress has been made within a month it would be reasonable to approach the department. Before approaching the Dept of Ed. I recommend that you first ask for the official minutes of any BOM Meeting relating to your complaint. You are entitled to see these and it will give you a good indication as to whether any substantive progress is being made. (Don't be surprised to see names blacked out, this is to protect the anonymity of the parties concerned. Remember, everyone is entitled to his/her good name and a BOM meeting is not a court of law.)

Hillel

deemark wrote: »

You have the name of one of the members of the BOM. You need to get some more names and lobby/contact them.

Attempting to influence the BOM, on a potential staff discipline issue, would be most improper.

deemark wrote: »

Even so, the chances of a meeting being called especially are slim, unless there is a large amount of parents/Parents' Association voicing concern.

Not true. If the BOM need to consider this, they will do so - once the proper procedures are followed.