Recommendations on a reliable, cheap and sporty car

RichyX

I have 3 years no claims under my belt so I think it might be time to shed my beloved 1ltr Ibiza.

I've been looking at MX5s for a long time, but I can't get over the fear of having the roof knifed by the local scum.

Can't really go for a 2 seater as I sometimes need back seats for work.

For motor tax reasons I'm thinking 1.6 is my max, which limits my choice just a wee bit.
Might go to 1.8 for something interesting.

Had a quick look around for MX3s but they aren't all that common and I have no experience of them.

Looking to spend 4k or under.
Any suggestions? Or am I wasting my time?

galwaytt

Buy the MX, and a hardtop. Problem solved. A lot of '5's have them with them at this stage, but if they don't, 500 will get you one. Less if you're lucky....

unkel

Yep, reliable cheap and sporty screams MX-5

RichyX

Where can the cheap hardtops be had?
Prices I've seen are nearly a grand excluding fitting.

Damn, the MX-5s are so tempting!

RichyX

Thinking about it I do need back seats for work sometimes, so the MX-5 probably isn't an option.

What else is out there that fits the bill?

EPM

Ford Puma maybe? Maybe you could track down an early Leon 1.8 turbo. There was a few around that were non-cupra or fr's and i've seen them go cheap

kasper

a skoda octavia vrs 1.8 150 bhp you should be able to pick up a 02 for that money

high horse

Just in relation to the MX5, i was under the impression that insuring a convertible was only possible with AA Ireland and they wouldn't do it for under 25's. This is what i was told a few years ago so it might have changed since then, maybe somebody here knows for sure

RichyX

EPM wrote: »

Ford Puma maybe? Maybe you could track down an early Leon 1.8 turbo. There was a few around that were non-cupra or fr's and i've seen them go cheap

I drove a Puma a weeks ago. Nice enough drive, but it basically felt like a more cramped Fiesta.

Gonna stick with my limit of 1.6 ltr for tax reasons. The 1.4 Leon is one of the dullest cars I've ever driven. Even if the 1.8 is a lot better the tax kills it for me.

Any opinions on the Toyota Levin?
I know they're a bit of a boy racer car but there are plenty about, so they can't all have be wrecked by imbeciles.

RichyX

high horse wrote: »

Just in relation to the MX5, i was under the impression that insuring a convertible was only possible with AA Ireland and they wouldn't do it for under 25's. This is what i was told a few years ago so it might have changed since then, maybe somebody here knows for sure

I'll be 26 by the time I actually buy it so quotes haven't really been a problem.

Mr Benevolent

RichyX wrote: »

Gonna stick with my limit of 1.6 ltr for tax reasons. The 1.4 Leon is one of the dullest cars I've ever driven. Even if the 1.8 is a lot better the tax kills it for me.

You do realise that the difference in tax between a 1.6 and 1.8 is only €110? You'd spend far more than that per year on drink or broadband, or even scratchcards. It's ridiculous to reject a car simply because the tax is a little more expensive.

high horse

RichyX wrote: »

Gonna stick with my limit of 1.6 ltr for tax reasons. The 1.4 Leon is one of the dullest cars I've ever driven. Even if the 1.8 is a lot better the tax kills it for me.

The tax difference between a 1.6 and a 1.8 is only 100 euro over 12 months, thats just over 27 cents per day. it would definately be worth it imo

If you think 100 euro per year is too much then you shouldn't buy a toyota levin, the insurance rates on these are pretty steep compared to other cars with similar sized engines


Edit: Confab got there before me!

RichyX

high horse wrote: »

The tax difference between a 1.6 and a 1.8 is only 100 euro over 12 months, thats just over 27 cents per day. it would definately be worth it imo

If you think 100 euro per year is too much then you shouldn't buy a toyota levin, the insurance rates on these are pretty steep compared to other cars with similar sized engines

Quinn quoted me under 700 for a Levin, not so bad.

If going for a 1.8 gives me any interesting options then I'm all ears.

Mr Benevolent

RichyX wrote: »

Quinn quoted me under 700 for a Levin, not so bad.

If going for a 1.8 gives me any interesting options then I'm all ears.

The 1.8 gives you access to the VAG 1.8T engine... it's on everything from the Golf GTI to the A4 to the Leon to the TT. By all accounts a good engine, although if you do go for one MAKE SURE the oil has been changed very regularly.

high horse

RichyX wrote: »

Quinn quoted me under 700 for a Levin, not so bad.

If going for a 1.8 gives me any interesting options then I'm all ears.

Well I'm a year older than you and i paid 460 to insure a BMW 318is so 700 to insure the Levin seems expensive to me. My point was that you're not prepared to spend the money on road tax but you're prepared to spend more money on insurance

RichyX

Confab wrote: »

The 1.8 gives you access to the VAG 1.8T engine... it's on everything from the Golf GTI to the A4 to the Leon to the TT. By all accounts a good engine, although if you do go for one MAKE SURE the oil has been changed very regularly.

My budget is 4k.
No TT or Leon 1.8 comes anywhere near that.

I just don't feel any sort of excitement at the thought of owning a variation of the Mk4 Golf.

high horse

Confab wrote: »

The 1.8 gives you access to the VAG 1.8T engine... it's on everything from the Golf GTI to the A4 to the Leon to the TT. By all accounts a good engine, although if you do go for one MAKE SURE the oil has been changed very regularly.

A friend of mine had a passat with the 1.8T engine. Nice car with a bit of poke but not rated as highly as the golf gti (with the same engine) for insurance

colm_mcm

high horse wrote: »

A friend of mine had a passat with the 1.8T engine. Nice car with a bit of poke but not rated as highly as the golf gti (with the same engine) for insurance

Aren't the Passat 1.8T models only 130bhp though?

RichyX

high horse wrote: »

Well I'm a year older than you and i paid 460 to insure a BMW 318is so 700 to insure the Levin seems expensive to me. My point was that you're not prepared to spend the money on road tax but you're prepared to spend more money on insurance

I'll only have 3 years NCB, so that might explain the difference.

The way I see it, the cost of insurance will come down each year (I hope), but I'm fairly confident the cost of taxing the bugger will head the other way.

Cheap fun was the whole idea behind getting the car.

high horse

colm_mcm wrote: »

Aren't the Passat 1.8T models only 130bhp though?

147bhp according to Parkers

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Summary.aspx?model=1049

colm_mcm

you're right, I was thinking of the 20v non turbo.

high horse

RichyX wrote: »

I'll only have 3 years NCB, so that might explain the difference.

The way I see it, the cost of insurance will come down each year (I hope), but I'm fairly confident the cost of taxing the bugger will head the other way.

Cheap fun was the whole idea behind getting the car.

Fair enough. There are many factors that affect the price of your insurance, engine size is just one of them. A type of car that attracts boy racer types like the Levin will cost more to insure due to generally higher number of claims for that model. If a Levin is what you want, then you should get one but don't do it just because of the road tax.
I would like to have a go in a supercharged levin though, I hear they're quite fast

Graham_B18C

RichyX wrote: »

I have 3 years no claims under my belt so I think it might be time to shed my beloved 1ltr Ibiza.

I've been looking at MX5s for a long time, but I can't get over the fear of having the roof knifed by the local scum.

For motor tax reasons I'm thinking 1.6 is my max, which limits my choice just a wee bit.

Had a quick look around for MX3s but they aren't all that common and I have no experience of them.

Looking to spend 4k or under.
Any suggestions? Or am I wasting my time?

I bought a Teg type r recently, you'd get one inside your budget.

Most fun i've ever had driving, but its a 1.8.

Im 22 with 3 tears NCB, try find a nice euro model, and it'd be handier to insure

RichyX

high horse wrote: »

If a Levin is what you want, then you should get one but don't do it just because of the road tax.
I would like to have a go in a supercharged levin though, I hear they're quite fast

I don't know anyone whose driven a Levin so I was interested in getting any opinions on them.

Just had a brainwave now.
I know the thread title includes "reliable", but an Alfa 147 seems to fit the bill in every other way.
I've driven the 145 1.6 and loved the engine.
Haven't had a go in a 147 yet. Sat into a GTA at a dealer once, but I was too scared to take it for a spin!

high horse

high horse wrote: »

Well I'm a year older than you and i paid 460 to insure a BMW 318is so 700 to insure the Levin seems expensive to me.

A Levin is a performance car, a 318 isn't, quite simple really.

Atomic Pineapple

Increase your engine size to 1.8 and get a UKDM Integra Type R.

Drive it, you'll love it.

Uk spec is much easier to insure than the Jap equivalent.

You should get a 98 one for €4k at this stage

draffodx

draffodx wrote: »

You should get a 98 one for €4k at this stage

Reckon it would be a right crate for €4K to be honest.

quarryman

high horse wrote: »

The tax difference between a 1.6 and a 1.8 is only 100 euro over 12 months, thats just over 27 cents per day. it would definately be worth it

+1

you have the typical Irish attitude of refusing to pay an extra few euro to give you a much better choice of car. This why the poverty spec 1.4 foucus and golf is so popular here. If you really want something a bit more fun to drive then accept the fact you'll have to cough up a bit more on tax. The insurance hike to the mx5 will be a lot more than the jump in tax.

Graham_B18C

RoverJames wrote: »

Reckon it would be a right crate for €4K to be honest.

I got one recently with FSH, 90k on the clock, spotless car for around that price

Atomic Pineapple

RoverJames wrote: »

Reckon it would be a right crate for €4K to be honest.

There not as popular here as the UK so it could be hard finding one but there hard to sell here so with a bit of bargaining you could get one within your price range.

If you managed to get insurance on a jap import then you'd get a 96 spec one for that money without any trouble

RichyX

quarryman wrote: »

you have the typical Irish attitude of refusing to pay an extra few euro to give you a much better choice of car. This why the poverty spec 1.4 foucus and golf is so popular here. If you really want something a bit more fun to drive then accept the fact you'll have to cough up a bit more on tax. The insurance hike to the mx5 will be a lot more than the jump in tax.

As I said, cheap fun.
I'm open to a 1.8 if it gives me any decent options.

I like Integras, but I've heard they're a bit rubbish for commuting due to lack of sound insulation. The image is a little boy racerish for my tastes, but if I can find one locally I'll give it a try.

Still liking the idea of a 147 1.6.

smash

1.8 - lotus Elise S1

RichyX

steve06 wrote: »

1.8 - lotus Elise S1

Thanks, but not looking at 2 seaters anymore for practicality reasons.

Atomic Pineapple

RichyX wrote: »

I like Integras, but I've heard they're a bit rubbish for commuting due to lack of sound insulation. The image is a little boy racerish for my tastes, but if I can find one locally I'll give it a try.

UK spec is much more refined, still rattly and noisy by times but you wont mind that when your driving her on a back road

unfortunately the fall in prices means they have fallen into the hands of boy racer types but thats not a real reason to discount them, getting a uk spec means you have a car slightly different to the norm too.

The seats are incredibly comfy too and you can get a/c with the uk version, the suspension is also more suited to our roads, there incredibly reliable, not bad on petrol and are incredibly enjoyable to drive.

If you get one for €4k you'd be getting yourself a hell of a car for very little money

edit: the boot is massive too

Drummerboy08

Sorry for going OT, but all this talk of Tegs, and looking at Graham's new one, has me seriously tempted to find a cheap one for a weekender....

galwaytt

RichyX wrote: »

Where can the cheap hardtops be had?
Prices I've seen are nearly a grand excluding fitting.

Damn, the MX-5s are so tempting!

I know you said it's off the list, but fwiw, a hardtop a few months ago cost me Eur 450.

Fitting ? ......er, like, you just pull the 4 levers........takes...........15 seconds ?

RichyX

galwaytt wrote: »

I know you said it's off the list, but fwiw, a hardtop a few months ago cost me Eur 450.

Fitting ? ......er, like, you just pull the 4 levers........takes...........15 seconds ?

Out of interest where did you get it?
I'd be happy to fit it myself and some day when I'm in a position to have a second car I'll definitely be getting one.

RichyX

I just noticed that a few of the last generation Celicas might be within budget

Any idea what the 1.6 Integras are like? There seem to be a good few around.

RichyX

RichyX wrote: »

I just noticed that a few of the last generation Celicas might be within budget

The 140bhp Celica is well known for major engine probs, I repeat well known & major.

Biro

RoverJames wrote: »

The 140bhp Celica is well known for major engine probs, I repeat well known & major.

Elaborate?

smash

RoverJames wrote: »

The 140bhp Celica is well known for major engine probs, I repeat well known & major.

no it's not...

RichyX

RoverJames wrote: »

The 140bhp Celica is well known for major engine probs, I repeat well known & major.

I'd forgotten about that...
Don't know how widespread the issue is but it's crazy that those engines can use as much as a litre of oil per 200 miles.

Biro

RichyX wrote: »

I'd forgotten about that...
Don't know how widespread the issue is but it's crazy that those engines can use as much as a litre of oil per 200 miles.

Had one for 3 years and over 60,000 miles and used feck all oil. After maybe 8,000 miles after a service I may have to add a tiny bit, but it never went below the low mark on the dipstick, and in fact I can't remember it going below halfway between the high and low marks. Maybe I just bought a minded one and continued to mind it. There are more sh!theaps for sale than good ones by a factor of 5:1 if I were to guess!

steve06

steve06 wrote: »

no it's not...

The 1.8 140bhp found in the 99 on models is, the older 1.8 found in the gen 6 is not. The chap is on about the latest Celicas, ie the Gen 7. As mentioned by one of the above posters some of them use litre of oil every 1000 Km. Well known it is, also it's acknowledged by Toyota who were changing engines on cars with full main dealer service histories even when they were years out of warrenty.

I love the no it's not reply

Atomic Pineapple

RichyX wrote: »

I just noticed that a few of the last generation Celicas might be within budget

Any idea what the 1.6 Integras are like? There seem to be a good few around.

Stay away from 1.6 Integra's! If you dont want to go the whole way to the Type R search for a 1.8 Sir

Biro

Biro wrote: »

Had one for 3 years and over 60,000 miles and used feck all oil. After maybe 8,000 miles after a service I may have to add a tiny bit, but it never went below the low mark on the dipstick, and in fact I can't remember it going below halfway between the high and low marks. Maybe I just bought a minded one and continued to mind it. There are more sh!theaps for sale than good ones by a factor of 5:1 if I were to guess!

It has little to do with how they were minded, it's a defect in the design / manufacture. I had a Celica for nearly a year (Gen 6 SS2) and used to have a peak on the Toyota Owners Club forum, the 99 to 02 140bhp 1.8s were highlighted as being disasters. There wasn't a simple fix to it either apart from a new engine in many cases.

All the doubting "experts" should have a peak here and in future put their foot in their mouth before making a numpty of themselves
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/214788/toyota_engine_woes.html

Atomic Pineapple

RoverJames wrote: »

It has little to do with how they were minded, it's a defect in the design / manufacture. I had a Celica for nearly a year (Gen 6 SS2) and used to have a peak on the Toyota Owners Club forum, the 99 to 02 140bhp 1.8s were highlighted as being disasters. There wasn't a simple fix to it either apart from a new engine in many cases.

All the doubting "experts" should have a peak here and in future put their foot in their mouth before making a numpty of themselves
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/214788/toyota_engine_woes.html

The 140bhp version is not a car I would class as sporty, the 190bhp version is the one I'm more familiar with, I've never heard of such problems with them?

Toyota would tend to disagree with you, if a Celica isn't sport I wouldn't know what is to be honest. The 140bhp Gen 7 moves along quite swiftly with impeccable road manners and safe handling. Celicas, Preludes etc were always available with low power options to appeal to a wider audience than just performance junkies.

RichyX

What's wrong with the 1.6 integra?
Having trouble finding info on it so I'm not even sure if it's a vtec unit.

A lot of them were dual carb rather than injection, no VTEC in the 1.6 me thinks. I'd take one personally though if it was tidy, nice car.

Atomic Pineapple

RoverJames wrote: »

Toyota would tend to disagree with you, if a Celica isn't sport I wouldn't know what is to be honest. The 140bhp Gen 7 moves along quite swiftly with impeccable road manners and safe handling. Celicas, Preludes etc were always available with low power options to appeal to a wider audience than just performance junkies.

I suppose its a comparative thing really, the 190bhp is the only version that would appeal to me whereas the 140bhp might appeal to more people who are used to the sub 100bhp vehicles are roads are full of.

RichyX wrote: »

What's wrong with the 1.6 integra?
Having trouble finding info on it so I'm not even sure if it's a vtec unit.

Theres nothing wrong with them, there nice and reliable and are around 120bhp if I remember correctly. There known as the Dc1 whereas the 1.8 versions are known as the Dc2.

There nice enough cars, more comfortable then an Sir or Type R but nowhere near the same league