Lisbon - has debates on boards changed your mind?

biko

There are tons of threads with lots of arguments for and against Lisbon.
But has your opinion been swayed by the discussions here or do we just rehash the same arguments all over and no-one budges?

If so can you point to the post/thread that made you change your mind?

ShooterSF

Where's the no it didn't option?

whadabouchasir

Tbh i have deliberately avoided the lisbon debates on boards.

thomond2006

Not the debate on AH anyway.

Dankoozy

ShooterSF wrote: »

Where's the no it didn't option?

This poll is like Lisbon 3 - there will only be one option, yes


a bit like Mugabe's election

My name is URL

To be fair, Terry's post is very helpful

Without it we'd all just be wandering about like zombies with our polling cards, and booking flights to Portugal

He really outlined well what voting on something means, we'd never get by without such advice

SV

tbh, I was inkling towards a yes vote.
If it wasn't for boards and it's pathetic pro lisbon agenda then I might be still.

K-9

Dankoozy wrote: »

This poll is like Lisbon 3 - there will only be one option, yes


a bit like Mugabe's election

Posts like that change my mind!

I would have been Yes leaning anyway and had a few questions about it the last time.

Taxation was my main worry the last time.

Futurism

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If you are still unsure, Vote NO.

"Better the devil you know than the one that you dont".

Would abstaining from the vote not be a better option?

The Big Red Button

I was undecided, maybe leaning a little bit towards the "no" side, but the threads on Boards (amongst many other sites and articles) helped me make up my mind to vote yes!

K-9

Futurism wrote: »

Would abstaining from the vote not be a better option?

Nah, that would be Neutral. No good to No campaigners then.

gerky

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If you are still unsure, Vote NO.

"Better the devil you know than the one that you dont".

That's a bit like saying "If you don't know what party to vote for vote for fianna fáil, sure at least we know what they're like"

And its that kind of stubborn thinking that's left us stuck with them for way too long.



Honestly people there is enough unbiased information out there to make an informed decision, instead of voting whatever way just for stupid non-existent reasons.

Holsten

Was no, will be no again.

Run_to_da_hills

Futurism wrote: »

Would abstaining from the vote not be a better option?

Absolutly not, and give away our freedom and rights to any future referendums. :eek:

Max Power1

i was always going to vote no, and the semi-true (at best) arguments of the yes campaigners here wouldnt change me.

tonycascarino

Was a No and after seeing the debates from the Pro-Lisbon mods of the Politics section, l'm a definite No.

K-9

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Absolutly not, and give away our freedom and rights to any future referendums. :eek:

You have been told that this isn't true. People have quoted you the text in the Treaty saying it isn't true.

You know it isn't true, but you still insist on peddling it.

If I was an undecided voter, this type of stuff would make me a Yes.

Run_to_da_hills

K-9 wrote: »

You have been told that this isn't true. People have quoted you the text in the Treaty saying it isn't true.

You know it isn't true, but you still insist on peddling it.

If I was an undecided voter, this type of stuff would make me a Yes.

I still wouldn't trust it as far as i would throw it, the treaty document is far too complex for the lay man, its also full of holes just like a lump of Swiss cheese.

No doubt once its passed amendment after amendment will be made by these aggressive foreign dictators to the worse and we will be able to do jack sh*t about it.

Dinner

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I still wouldn't trust it as far as i would throw it

So you admit that you told a lie about this being the last referendum?

K-9

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I still wouldn't trust it as far as i would throw it, the treaty document is far too complex for the lay man, its also full of holes just like a lump of Swiss cheese.

No doubt once its passed amendment after amendment will be made by these aggressive foreign dictators to the worse and we will be able to do jack sh*t about it.

Your sig is more crap.

LOL, Spain voting Yes to a Constitution that never came into law couldn't possibly cause unemployment.

Pygmalion

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I still wouldn't trust it as far as i would throw it, the treaty document is far too complex for the lay man, its also full of holes just like a lump of Swiss cheese.

The treaty is too complex for the lay man...
Very few legal documents, particularly treaties, are easy enough for any farmer to pick up and understand, did you want a picture book?

There are tons of places you can go to find out about what's actually in the treaty in plain English.

As for your sig, Ireland voted no, unemployment soared.

dr.bollocko

Moved from AH. You are now under the remit of the EU forum rules. Please read the charter here before posting.

ChocolateSauce

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

No doubt once its passed amendment after amendment will be made by these aggressive foreign dictators to the worse and we will be able to do jack sh*t about it.

What?

AuRevoir

No my mind has definitely not been swayed by the pro lisbon mods of boards.ie

Daftendirekt

I don't know why I'm bothering but...

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Absolutly not, and give away our freedom and rights to any future referendums. :eek:

Please prove, with reference to the treaty, how Lisbon will take away "our freedom and rights to any future referendums."

No doubt once its passed amendment after amendment will be made by these aggressive foreign dictators to the worse and we will be able to do jack sh*t about it.

Out of sheer morbid curiosity, which EU countries do you believe are dictatorships? And what reason is there to believe that any amendments made will be detrimental to the individual EU countries? More importantly, why would EU members want to pass legislation which was harmful to themselves?




I thought one of the rules of this forum was that you had to back up your claims?

Daftendirekt

Oh, and incidentally... The Lisbon debates round here did help me make my mind up the first time round, although I was kind of on the fence anyway, leaning toward a yes.

dlofnep

gerky wrote: »

That's a bit like saying "If you don't know what party to vote for vote for fianna fáil, sure at least we know what they're like"

And its that kind of stubborn thinking that's left us stuck with them for way too long.



Honestly people there is enough unbiased information out there to make an informed decision, instead of voting whatever way just for stupid non-existent reasons.

Well - once the treaty is passed, it's a done deal and cannot be reversed. So if they are unsure of the implications of it - why should they pass an irreversible treaty?

Pygmalion

dlofnep wrote: »

So if they are unsure of the implications of it - why should they pass an irreversible treaty?

They're just as unsure of the implications of a no vote.

Also as said above, if they haven't bothered to learn after 18 months it's not a matter of not having enough info. yet, it's widely available, they simply aren't bothered opening their eyes and another 6 months/1 year/decade won't change that.

macy9

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If you are still unsure, Vote NO.

"Better the devil you know than the one that you dont".

Just don't vote.

Your reasoning would just the same by voting yes.

meglome

SV wrote: »

tbh, I was inkling towards a yes vote.
If it wasn't for boards and it's pathetic pro lisbon agenda then I might be still.

Maybe people who have kept an open mind and read a lot about the treaty agree with it. You know they like it because it's actually good for Ireland.

I see the peddled No line of the day is the Mods are all blind Yes voters. :mad:

meglome

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I still wouldn't trust it as far as i would throw it, the treaty document is far too complex for the lay man, its also full of holes just like a lump of Swiss cheese.

No doubt once its passed amendment after amendment will be made by these aggressive foreign dictators to the worse and we will be able to do jack sh*t about it.

It a legal document, you don't need to trust it, you can just read it. Which you openly admit to not doing.

You know that a lot of what you say isn't true and you still keep saying it.

tonycascarino

meglome wrote: »

I see the peddled No line of the day is the Mods all all blind Yes voters. :mad:

Lets call a spade a spade here, it's hardly a secret.

limklad

up to the Day Before Lisbon 1 I was don't know
Listened to cowan crap as he put it as a referendum on "we're in out out of the EU". Decided to Vote No there and then he failed to answers questions about the Lisbon Treaty.

Still No today despite been Very Pro EU and pro EU Enlargement so other countries can benefit as we did. My concerns was not met by the Politicians nor did they asked about them.
They just fed me bull on how the EU was good to us like we hardly noticed in the last 20 Years:rolleyes:.

meglome

tonycascarino wrote: »

Lets call a spade a spade here, it's hardly a secret.

I think you'll find there's a huge difference between a blind No voter and an informed Yes voter. Sorry I meant I think you'll find there's a big difference between a blind Yes voter and an informed Yes voter.

The Mods in here are happy to backup everything they say from the actual treaty which is what convinced me to vote Yes. The constant lying from the No side have convinced me to vote Yes.

sceptre

tonycascarino wrote: »

Lets call a spade a spade here, it's hardly a secret.

Tell me which way I'm voting based on any post or moderator decision and I'll offer you a big lollipop.

Complaints about moderation or moderation decisions go in the Help Desk forum. That's mentioned in the charter, which you should read as it's significantly shorter than the Lisbon Treaty. The Help Desk isn't difficult to find, it's located in the menu under "Sys".

Anyone who thinks that boards has a pro- or anti-Lisbon agenda either can't read or won't read. While I have a word for those people, I follow the rules I implement so I won't label them publicly.

Either way though, you're wrong. I won't be bothering to point this out again as it's wasted on those that think so.

meglome

limklad wrote: »

up to the Day Before Lisbon 1 I was don't know
Listened to cowan crap , Decided to Vote No there and then.

Still No today despite been Very Pro EU, and my concerns was not met by the Politicians nor did they asked about them.
They just fed me bull on how the EU was good to us like we hardly noticed in the last 20 Years:rolleyes:.

Sorry but I can't help feeling you're mixing up our rubbish government with how the EU has done. And honestly the Lisbon treaty improves the running of the EU so it sounds like you should think that's a good thing.

tonycascarino

sceptre wrote: »

Tell me which way I'm voting based on any post or moderator decision and I'll offer you a big lollipop.

Sorry but I don't take sweets from strangers.:p

NewApproach

Stupid poll, why is there no option for 'No, it didnt change my mind?'

patrickthomas

I was leaning towards yes but the arrogance i seen in here from the yes side reminded me if the same arrogance that our government shows its voters, vote yes or shut up!

Everything that has come out of that type of arrogance has been complete cr*p and lies.

Definitely voting NO now.

Halfdog

Daftendirekt wrote: »

I thought one of the rules of this forum was that you had to back up your claims?

This thread originated in AH.

Dinner

patrickthomas wrote: »

I was leaning towards yes but the arrogance i seen in here from the yes side reminded me if the same arrogance that our government shows its voters, vote yes or shut up!

I'd be very interested in you providing some sort of proof to back up that claim. The only people that I have seen come out with anything similar to "Vote yes or shut up" is no voters insinuating that yes voters said that.

Haven't seen any yes voters say it though.


And on a side note, you are admitting that you are voting no not based on the treaty or anything in it?

biko

Looking back now, the 3rd option is a bit strange, should have made it multi-answer poll.

meglome

patrickthomas wrote: »

I was leaning towards yes but the arrogance i seen in here from the yes side reminded me if the same arrogance that our government shows its voters, vote yes or shut up!

Everything that has come out of that type of arrogance has been complete cr*p and lies.

Definitely voting NO now.

From what I've seen of your posts you were always a No voter.

patrickthomas

meglome wrote: »

From what I've seen of your posts you were always a No voter.

In that case why not go and take a look at them,:mad: god forbid that you would take me on my word

Sam Vimes

patrickthomas wrote: »

I was leaning towards yes but the arrogance i seen in here from the yes side reminded me if the same arrogance that our government shows its voters, vote yes or shut up!

Look mate, there are only so many times you can see the same lie or irrelevant crap repeated before you stop being polite about telling the person it's a lie. Often they don't know themselves that it's a lie but it's a lie nonetheless

Should we pretend that there is some form of validity in the points being made in case they get offended and vote no anyway just to spite us? Maybe we should as that seems to be why you're voting no.

Would you really rather side with someone who's promoting a lie than with someone who appears to be arrogant while pointing out that it's a lie?

procure11

I dont like posting in this forum but the simple answer to the question is No.

I am still going to vote No without any reservations whatsoever.
I am not sure which way the vote would go in October but the EU forum has not being of much help in understanding the treaty at all.The purpose anyone dicides to come here is not read stickies or get into arguements with a handful of consistent posters who gang up in droves to attack any hint of anti-lisbon opinion.If you post in the EU forum and you are anti-lisbon,2 things are likely to happen:

1.You get bombarded by the same 4 or 5 same posters who attack your post and usually thank themselves for doing so.

2.They quote one Mod who is obviously far knowledgable than themselves and tell you to F-off.If you persist,the thread is closed or you get banned.

I am fully aware that there are some positives in the lisbon treaty but the disadvantages in my opinion far outweigh the advantages ,that explains my stance!

Sam Vimes

procure11 wrote: »

I dont like posting in this forum but the simple answer to the question is No.

I am still going to vote No without any reservations whatsoever.
I am not sure which way the vote would go in October but the EU forum has not being of much help in understanding the treaty at all.The purpose anyone dicides to come here is not read stickies or get into arguements with a handful of consistent posters who gang up in droves to attack any hint of anti-lisbon opinion.If you post in the EU forum and you are anti-lisbon,2 things are likely to happen:

1.You get bombarded by the same 4 or 5 same posters who attack your post and usually thank themselves for doing so.

2.They quote one Mod who is obviously far knowledgable than themselves and tell you to F-off.If you persist,the thread is closed or you get banned.

I am fully aware that there are some positives in the lisbon treaty but the disadvantages in my opinion far outweigh the advantages ,that explains my stance!

What do you suggest should be done when someone says something that is not true and has been corrected literally hundreds of times?

Rb

Those results are fairly impressive so far.

Way to go Scofflaw & Co.

gizmo555

Magnus wrote: »

But has your opinion been swayed by the discussions here or do we just rehash the same arguments all over and no-one budges?

That's certainly the impression I have and it's reason I don't bother posting in this forum any more - a lot more heat than light IMO (or as an RTE radio news person memorably put it during the week talking to the Chairman of the Referendum Commission "more height than leet"!)

BTW, aren't their two responses missing from the poll?

"Was yes, remain yes."

"Was no, remain no."

Het-Field

No.

But granted, its far more productive debate then on P.IE

Stark

Was undecided coming up to Lisbon I (Biggest worry was Ireland losing influence). Decided to vote Yes, mostly based on points put forward by sink and Scofflaw.

Was yes, still yes for Lisbon II until I see an argument against it that's based on the Treaty and not on spite.