lose 'belly'; bulk up ... what to do first?

fjkdal

I've read a few of the threads on losing the belly and getting a "Brad Pitt-like physique"and my understanding is this....

1. You can't spot reduce fat;

2. You can't convert fat to muscle;

3. You'll have to cut calorie intake to lose the belly; you'll have to increase calorie intake to bulk up.

So, if you are an average person with a bit of a belly who wants to basically be fitter and "look better naked" (Kevin Spacey got it in one), should you set about losing the belly first (i.e. cut calorie intake, do cardio) or build up calorie intake and do weights etc. to bulk up???




If you take the latter option, are you going to lose that belly???

Mad Leprechaun

I'm in the same boat as you.I wanna lose the belly I have and tone up.I lose the weight i wanted to lose but my belly stayed the same.I think it would be better to lose the belly first though.

brianrcarney

I am no help here - exact same boat!! Hopefully someone will post and help us all!

corkcomp

you guys should have a read of "burn the fat, feed the muscle" - you can download as an ebook .. basically if you have a belly it probably means you have too much belly fat so if you want to build muscle try to do a clean bulk if you must bulk - at least you wont be adding to the belly problem !

fjkdal

fjkdal wrote: »

2. You can't convert fat to muscle;

No expert here, but isn't there some plus to having a lot of fat when starting to try and build muscle?


Something about your muscle tissue 'tearing' and the fat on your body beefing it up before it repairs?

Or am I thinking like an 8 year old?

Con someone a bit more knowledgeable give me some insight here please?

Mad Leprechaun

corkcomp wrote: »

you guys should have a read of "burn the fat, feed the muscle" - you can download as an ebook .. basically if you have a belly it probably means you have too much belly fat so if you want to build muscle try to do a clean bulk if you must bulk - at least you wont be adding to the belly problem !

That was a good video.I don't really care about having a 6 pac I just don't wanna have a belly.I also have some fat on my arms that I wanna get rid of.

ragg

Clean Bulk is only good if are quite lean already, maybe 12% body fat at an absolute max.

Anyone else needs to get lean first.

marley007

hey guys,
ye're best bet as regards to the diet is a high protein low fat diet, carbs in moderation until you really need to bulk, high intensity cardio and nice big heavy weights should help....cutting out alcohol is a must and throwing menus to the take away is also very important! enjoy!

EileenG

In general, it's true that you can't cut fat and gain muscle at the same time. However, when you start getting your act together, you get "Noobie gains", which is a sort of bodybuilding honeymoon. For a few months or so, you can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

Cool, huh?

It won't last forever but by then, chances are you'll know if you need to continue to cut or need to bulk.

ragg

Mad Leprechaun wrote: »

That was a good video.I don't really care about having a 6 pac I just don't wanna have a belly.I also have some fat on my arms that I wanna get rid of.

Never read down this far, if you want to lose the belly, diet & diet smart. A user on here wrote an ebook, his website is neilmct.com. Check it out. Its the perfect beginners guide to nutrition & training. If not check out the stickys at the top of the page, but IMO NeilMct's diet plan FTW

ragg

EileenG wrote: »

In general, it's true that you can't cut fat and gain muscle at the same time. However, when you start getting your act together, you get "Noobie gains", which is a sort of bodybuilding honeymoon. For a few months or so, you can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

Cool, huh?

It won't last forever but by then, chances are you'll know if you need to continue to cut or need to bulk.

N00b gains are unreal, but not really going to get rid of a large amount of fat

crótach

I dunno, just regular excercise did it for me. Going out 3 times a week for a 4 mile jog and minding a bit more what I ate (chips, fries, chocolates, alcohol) did the job.

I lost the fat belly and 14kg in one year. Didn't go on a diet, didn't cut any particular food out, I was just more aware of what I was eating. Didn't grow a sixpack either, I'd guess you'd have to put in a lot more effort into it and really watch your diet to get that.

I didn't bother with the gyms, but if you wanted to bulk up, then weight training on top of cardio workouts is the only way. There are lean protein shakes and stuff like that for people who want to just gain muscle mass, and it is possible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. Products like Maximuscle Cyclone are formulated like that, but I'm sure there are better and cheaper products out there - the experienced bodybuilders would be able to tell you, and there's a few here on boards.

Mad Leprechaun

How could I find out my body fat??

ragg

Mad Leprechaun wrote: »

How could I find out my body fat??

A good personal triner with calipers or use one of them machines in the chemist over 4 times over an 8 day period and take the average

Mad Leprechaun

ragg wrote: »

A good personal triner with calipers or use one of them machines in the chemist over 4 times over an 8 day period and take the average

I think I'l do the chemist thing.I'm a bit self-conscious about my belly and the idea of somebody grabing it with a calipers just ain't floating my boat.

ragg

Mad Leprechaun wrote: »

I think I'l do the chemist thing.I'm a bit self-conscious about my belly and the idea of somebody grabing it with a calipers just ain't floating my boat.

1. Dont be ashamed about anything, no matter what you are like, a trainer has seen 10 times worse
2. even the average of a body fat machine wont be that accurate, but it will be fine as a starting point

Jimmy Bottlehead

Mad Leprechaun wrote: »

I think I'l do the chemist thing.I'm a bit self-conscious about my belly and the idea of somebody grabing it with a calipers just ain't floating my boat.

Big deal - get over it ,and use how horrible it feels as motivation... promise yourself you'll get in shape and not have to feel so disgusted with yourself again.

Mad Leprechaun

Yous are both right.Next time I go gym I will go over to one of the instructors and ask about it.What sort of foods would be best.I would usually have breakfast lunch and dinner and sometimes it usually fills me but some days I feel like I need more food.

ragg

Mad Leprechaun wrote: »

Yous are both right.Next time I go gym I will go over to one of the instructors and ask about it.What sort of foods would be best.I would usually have breakfast lunch and dinner and sometimes it usually fills me but some days I feel like I need more food.

Learn about nutrition - if you are training, you need to eat right, otherwise you are pissing in the wind

corkcomp

Mad Leprechaun wrote: »

Yous are both right.Next time I go gym I will go over to one of the instructors and ask about it.What sort of foods would be best.I would usually have breakfast lunch and dinner and sometimes it usually fills me but some days I feel like I need more food.

look at the following:

the stickies in the nutrition and diet section of boards.ie
the burn the fat and feed the muscle i mentioned earlier
and, neilmct as mentioned by ragg ...

ask any questions AFTER reading the above, but there isnt much thats not referenced in those TBH .... oh and above all, lift VERY HEAVY weights ..

Mad Leprechaun

ragg wrote: »

Learn about nutrition - if you are training, you need to eat right, otherwise you are pissing in the wind

Well isn't that a coinky dink.Iv got 2 nutrition classes a week in college and also 2 excerise and fitness classes.I'l think for now I will eat less portions of dinner and all.

EileenG

Keep an eye on your waist size. If your waist is big, you have a lot of bodyfat. If you weigh 17 stone but have a small waist, you are not carrying much fat, it's mostly muscle.

Regular sessions with the tape measure and some naked pictures will help you keep on track (anyone who steals my mobile is in for a very nasty shock).

A good diet should include a quality protein, a healthy fat and a green vegetable at every sit down meal. Try to limit refined carbs (sugar, biscuits, bread, pasta, rice) and eat a lot more vegetables and whole foods.

Eat plenty of chicken, salmon and tuna, beef, eggs, lots and lots and lots of green vegetables, some dairy, olive oil, nuts, fruit, wholegrains.

Personally, I recommend not eating unless you are hungry. There's a lot of rubbish about how eating six or more meals a day will do something magical to your metabolism. For many people, it just gets you into the habit of constantly eating.

Mad Leprechaun

corkcomp wrote: »

look at the following:

the stickies in the nutrition and diet section of boards.ie
the burn the fat and feed the muscle i mentioned earlier
and, neilmct as mentioned by ragg ...

ask any questions AFTER reading the above, but there isnt much thats not referenced in those TBH .... oh and above all, lift VERY HEAVY weights ..

I have had a look at neilmct and it's good so I will have a look at the stickies now thanks.

corkcomp

Mad Leprechaun wrote: »

Well isn't that a coinky dink.Iv got 2 nutrition classes a week in college and also 2 excerise and fitness classes.I'l think for now I will eat less portions of dinner and all.

anybody else thinking troll ??:pac:

Mad Leprechaun

corkcomp wrote: »

anybody else thinking troll ??:pac:

What you mean??

ragg

corkcomp wrote: »

anybody else thinking troll ??:pac:

Nutrition in college = public health nutrition, i.e only eat 50g's of protien a day etc, its ok to stop people getting fatter, but not a way to loose weight.
For what its worth OP - my experience on neil Mct's diet, i'm 5'9 I was 13.5 stone. I had a 37,5" waist in may. right now im 10stone 10lbs, with a 31" waist. Now im a perfectionist and want a proper 6 pack, but thats just me, its a great plan, cant recommend it enough, mainly for the support aspect that goes with it

Mad Leprechaun

ragg wrote: »

Nutrition in college = public health nutrition, i.e only eat 50g's of protien a day etc, its ok to stop people getting fatter, but not a way to loose weight.
For what its worth OP - my experience on neil Mct's diet, i'm 5'9 I was 13.5 stone. I had a 37,5" waist in may. right now im 10stone 10lbs, with a 31" waist. Now im a perfectionist and want a proper 6 pack, but thats just me, its a great plan, cant recommend it enough, mainly for the support aspect that goes with it

Did you buy the book??

ragg

yeah, to be honest the best thing about the book is the support that goes with it!
I was in Belfast last week and met Neil, the dude lives and breaths this stuff

Mad Leprechaun

ragg wrote: »

yeah, to be honest the best thing about the book is the support that goes with it!
I was in Belfast last week and met Neil, the dude lives and breaths this stuff

Could I use a 3v card to buy it?

ragg

No idea mate, Cant remember how i paid for it

corkcomp

Mad Leprechaun wrote: »

Could I use a 3v card to buy it?

if you want the ebook pm me an email addy (hope this isnt breaking any forum rules :pac:)

Mad Leprechaun

Alright.When I get money again I will try buy it with a 3v card and if not I'l use me mam's laser card.

ragg

corkcomp wrote: »

if you want the ebook pm me an email addy (hope this isnt breaking any forum rules :pac:)

2 things
1. Without the support its easy to make mistakes & miss the point
2. That's the dudes intellectual property, pretty ****ty thing to do

That's just my 2 cents

crótach

Mad Leprechaun wrote: »

I think I'l do the chemist thing.I'm a bit self-conscious about my belly and the idea of somebody grabing it with a calipers just ain't floating my boat.

They don't really grab the belly with the calipers. I've had it done once, they'll pinch your skin on the arms and legs and waist with the calipers and give you a measure. And it's not painful, and it's a lot more accurate than any body fat scale - those are just gimmicks. Just my opinion.

crótach

EileenG wrote: »

There's a lot of rubbish about how eating six or more meals a day will do something magical to your metabolism. For many people, it just gets you into the habit of constantly eating.

Not to mention keeping your dentist busy

Mellor

ragg wrote: »

2. even the average of a body fat machine wont be that accurate, but it will be fine as a starting point

The body fat will be just as accurate as a person using the calipers incorrectly, obviously a well trained professional will do it right, but not everyone who offers the service is trained or professional.

crótach wrote: »

They don't really grab the belly with the calipers. I've had it done once, they'll pinch your skin on the arms and legs and waist with the calipers and give you a measure.

There are a number of places they can check, including some on the stomach, it all depends

EileenG wrote: »

Regular sessions with the tape measure and some naked pictures will help you keep on track (anyone who steals my mobile is in for a very treat).

FYP

rottweiler

corkcomp wrote: »

if you want the ebook pm me an email addy (hope this isnt breaking any forum rules :pac:)

PM sent

shadey77

Hi,

Sort of in the same boat on the belly front and looking for advice,have started doing weight training to bulk up and have noticed belly getting to flabby.im 6,2 and 13,2 stone.
have been eating more as advised and taking maximuscle cyclone twice a day.Just looking to bulk without the belly.Read on a other site that "should bulk up not worry about belly fat etc and then do something called cutting.

Any help .

corkcomp

shadey77 wrote: »

Hi,

Sort of in the same boat on the belly front and looking for advice,have started doing weight training to bulk up and have noticed belly getting to flabby.im 6,2 and 13,2 stone.
have been eating more as advised and taking maximuscle cyclone twice a day.Just looking to bulk without the belly.Read on a other site that "should bulk up not worry about belly fat etc and then do something called cutting.

Any help .

hi, start off by reading this:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054876750

and this:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055156847

there is a lot more to it than eating more, you also need to lift HEAVY and you need to make sure you are eating cleanly and not too much, thats if you want to avoid unnecessary fat gain .. forget the bulking and cutting cycles, you dont need to go down that road, people will argue that you need a surplus of calories to gain muscle and a deficit to lose fat but there is more to it than that - if you were to do 2 * full body workouts per week and eat enough before and after that would build muscle and you could lay off the food and supps on other days ... If you want more specific advice post up your diet + exercise routine ....

shadey77

thanks for reply.

Im doing weights 3 times a week day on day off more or less.

sqauts x3 sets 12, 10 ,8 reps
bench press 30kgs
lunges
shoulder press
triceps
curles
rows.

Diet is more in around ,

breakfast
wheatabixs x2
two eggs scrambled beans 3 slices of brown bread mug of tea.

lunch.
two small tins of tuna 4 slice of brown bread.

dinner
potatoes,carrots and chicken or other meat.

shake
before and after workout .and just the one on non gym days.

thanks again

corkcomp

shadey77 wrote: »

thanks for reply.

Im doing weights 3 times a week day on day off more or less.

sqauts x3 sets 12, 10 ,8 reps
bench press 30kgs
lunges
shoulder press
triceps
curles
rows.

Diet is more in around ,

breakfast
wheatabixs x2
two eggs scrambled beans 3 slices of brown bread mug of tea.

lunch.
two small tins of tuna 4 slice of brown bread.

dinner
potatoes,carrots and chicken or other meat.

shake
before and after workout .and just the one on non gym days.

thanks again

shadey77, do you do any leg work apart from squats? try leg press ... Not sure what to say about the diet, its lacking in vegetables and fruit ... the bread is fine @ breakfast but you prob dont need all that bread at lunch ... maybe porridge would be better than beans for breakfast ..

IMO you should drop the shakes on non workout days and you could prob get away with dropping the pre work out one also ...

do you know what your body fat is?

do you do any cardio / intervals?

shadey77

Dont do cardio really , was afraid of losing weight .
Just do lunges with the sqauts. I work out at home so just have the basics to work out with.Think your right on the shakes alright have noticed a change in my waist line since i started on them.

LadyGodiva

could i please get a copy of the ebook too?
thanks
Fiona

LionelNashe

Hey folks,

That NeilMcT site looks interesting. How much is that e-book? I couldn't see a price there.

oceanclub

Just to bump this thread to say that book from Neilmct is worth its weight in gold (well since it's an e-book, it weighs nothing, so I'm mixing metaphors here, but you know what I mean). I've lost about 6-8kg since I bought it 2 months ago, and find that following his dietary advice isn't even that hard. The only downside is that none of my clothes fit me but I'll just have to wait for the January sales. I'm seriously looking forward to having a six-pack for the first time at the age of 39.

P.

ragg

saw your progress on neils blog - great going in just a short amount of time

oceanclub

ragg wrote: »

saw your progress on neils blog - great going in just a short amount of time

Thanks - it's great being a pin-up.

P.

ragg

When i saw you post that pic on the forum. i knew neil would jumnp on it.

Speaking of neils forum, are you able to access it this morning?

oceanclub

ragg wrote: »

When i saw you post that pic on the forum. i knew neil would jumnp on it.

Speaking of neils forum, are you able to access it this morning?

Nope, appears to be down for me too,

P.