UFC 102 Discussion (Will Contain Spoilers)

rovert

:P

Actually it is a pretty good card just the build has been non existant.

Anyways does anyone think Chris Tuchscherer is value at 16/5.


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Fozzy

rovert wrote: »

Anyways does anyone think Chris Tuchscherer is value at 16/5.

YES. I'm going down to put a bet on him and Maia in a while

It should be a good card. It's just that there's not a whole lot riding on the fights. The winner of Couture/Nogueira won't be getting the next title shot, same with Maia/Marquardt

I'm expecting Randy to win easily enough unfortunately. I just don't like what I've seen of Nogueira recently, I'm not sure that he should still be fighting

Maia and Marquardt should be a good fight. I just hope that it's not over in a flash

I like Soszynski over Vera too. If he can get Vera to the ground then he should have him

Jardine vs Silva could be great if they just stand and go for it. I'm expecting a KO here

rovert

Fozzy wrote: »

I'm expecting Randy to win easily enough unfortunately. I just don't like what I've seen of Nogueira recently, I'm not sure that he should still be fighting

I share the same concern going by some people's accounts Seabiscuit had better eyesight that what Nog does now.

Dave Meltzers Yahoo article:

Couture-Nogueira a match worth the wait

By Dave Meltzer, Yahoo! Sports
Aug 28, 1:06 am EDT

Couture, the former UFC heavyweight champion, and Nogueira, the former PRIDE champ, nearly met on several occasions. Then as now, a straight scouting report would look something like this:

Both have decent technical boxing and footwork. Couture’s head movement is superior. Historically, Nogueira has the better chin and probably quicker hand speed, although that may not be the case today. Neither has strong one-punch knockout power. Couture has excellent clinch work and dirty boxing, using his skills garnered in international Greco-Roman wrestling competition as his base and using it to fire off shots from close range. Couture’s wrestling is superior and he is great at keeping top position and punching from that position, but he is not a strong submission finisher. But if the fight goes to the ground, Couture has to watch out for Nogueira’s great submission game, perhaps the best of any heavyweight in history.

But most likely, for both men, their biggest challenge on Saturday night won’t be the skills of their opponent. It’ll be the realities of themselves.

Couture is 46. Sure, those who cite his age as the reason to expect his physical decline have been wrong for a decade now. People scoffed at his age and wrote him off from the early stages of his career in 1997. One day, they’ll be correct.

Nogueira is 33, a year younger than Couture was when he debuted. But Nogueira has been in more wars along the way.

If you watched both men’s most recent fight, even though both lost, Couture put up a competitive showing in losing the UFC heavyweight title to Brock Lesnar on Nov. 15. Lesnar was also 60 pounds heavier going into the cage. Lesnar’s strength, wrestling, was the same as Couture, only Lesnar is younger and stronger.

Nogueira, on the other hand, was not competitive with Frank Mir in his last fight on Dec. 27, when he was stopped for the first time in his career, on a second-round TKO. Granted, he was nowhere near 100 percent, coming off a staph infection and a knee injury that would have led most sane men to cancel the fight.

His movement wasn’t there, his reactions were slow, and the chin that withstood ridiculous punishment in the past was no longer there as he was dropped three times by Mir. But even in his prior fight with Tim Sylvia, which he won via submission, he was knocked down and was slower to recover than he had been in the past.

The key to Nogueira’s success is his ability to survive major beatings, wait for the opponent to either tire or make a mistake, then capitalize with a quick submission. That happened with Sylvia, Mirko Cro Cop and Bob Sapp in three of his most memorable wins.

Nogueira was run over by a truck at the age of 11 and was not expected to survive. He spent four days in a coma and was hospitalized for nearly a year. Nogueira has noted that, after going through that ordeal, being knocked around by big punchers is not as traumatic to him as to most people.

“I’m 33 years old and I have a lot to do in my career still,” said Nogueira. “I know I’m still young and feel healthy,” he said. “I still feel my body when I fight, I’m very competitive. You know I love the sport. You know I think the sport is just getting that right now the UFC is growing very much and I’m very happy to be part of that. And for sure I want to have a couple of more fights and show a lot of good skills for the fans for sure.”

Even after comparing skills and wills, which both men have displayed in abundance their entire career, the key to this fight may be simply who has the most left physically.

“You know, bad fights happen,” said Nogueira [31-5-1, 1 no-contest], who was the first PRIDE heavyweight champion. “You know it’s not every fight you’re going to be 100 percent.”

“In the last fight I had a bad injury in my left knee,” he said. “And you know, I couldn’t feel like I could train for the fight. Three weeks before the fight I was in the hospital [with the staph infection]. And that’s a low point for sure in my career.”

Nogueira claims he’s rejuvenated and feels the best that he has in the past four years. Couture (16-9, but that is a misleading record for a man who has been in a record 16 championship fights during his career) looks in incredible condition for any age, and claims he’s still improving as a fighter.

“I have to perform way better then the last match,” said Nogueira. “We feel like I worked [trained] way better than I worked in my last match, too. You know, I feel like I had to work more. I took the fight very seriously. You know my opponent is very good, very sharp. So, for sure, I feel like I have to do way better than I did in the last match. That’s how I’m feeling for this match. I worked very hard. I worked maybe two or three times more than I worked in my last match.”

If that’s the case, this will be a heavyweight showdown that could put the winner in line for a championship match. This fight never took place previously because during what most would consider each man’s peak, they fought for different organizations. Couture was a three-time heavyweight champion in UFC, and Nogueira was champion, and then the longtime top heavyweight contender, in PRIDE.

However, at three points they came close. On February 24, 2001, when both men were in an eight-man one-night tournament with the RINGS organization in Japan, they were on opposite sides of the bracketing and seemingly on a collision course to meet for the championship. But Couture was upset in the semifinals by Valentijn Overeem, the older brother of Strikeforce heavyweight champ Alistair Overeem. Nogueira then beat Overeem to win the tournament.

In late 2007, they were on target to meet for the UFC heavyweight title Couture held, but Couture quit the organization before the fight was signed over problems not related to facing Nogueira. Nogueira won the interim title in Couture’s absence, beating Sylvia.

When Couture and UFC settled their differences, many expected the two to meet again as UFC devised a four-man tournament, with Mir and Lesnar, to unify the titles, but instead Couture and Nogueira both lost.

Advance ticket sales for Saturday’s match were disappointing, with a little more than 10,000 sold as of early in the week in a nearly 20,000-seat arena. But sales picked up after discount offers this week. The gate should still be in the $2 million range, which will be a combat sports record for the Northwest.

It’s a lock Couture will be the overwhelming crowd favorite even though Nogueira came off as nothing but likeable to the UFC audience during a season as a coach on “The Ultimate Fighter” reality show.

Couture grew up in Everett, Wash., and lived 13 years of his adult life in the Portland area where he coached wrestling at Oregon State and had a long run as one of the best Greco-Roman wrestlers in the country. He established the original Team Quest with fellow national champion wrestlers Matt Lindland and Dan Henderson in nearby Gresham, Ore., before leaving for Las Vegas a few years back.

smoochie06

I dont give Nog much chance. I think Randy will GnP him out of it but he still has to be careful with Nog on the ground he got a good sub against Sylvia. Whoever wins i dont think has a realistic chance of a matchup with Brock either.

dunkamania

Randy is going through a divorce, and Nog apparently had a rough training camp, getting KO'd a few times.

Still, could be a cracking fight, I am expecting Couture to pick up the decision, although his camp are saying he will be more vicious than in previous fights

Fozzy

dunkamania wrote: »

Randy is going through a divorce

Nothing he hasn't done before :pac: And that girl half his age who accompanied him to the last PPV is helping him out I'm sure

I was just watching the Countdown show, nothing too special. Maia's a nice guy, I don't remember hearing from him before. He's going to be a lot smaller than Marquardt by the looks of it

Only Randy's second 3-round fight in the UFC, it's crazy

jayteecork

So what's the best value 3 fight accumaltor right now?

Fozzy

jayteecork wrote: »

So what's the best value 3 fight accumaltor right now?

I would say Tuchscherer, Maia and Soszynski. All underdogs who have a real chance

bigslick

Fozzy wrote: »

Nothing he hasn't done before :pac: And that girl half his age who accompanied him to the last PPV is helping him out I'm sure

I was just watching the Countdown show, nothing too special. Maia's a nice guy, I don't remember hearing from him before. He's going to be a lot smaller than Marquardt by the looks of it

Only Randy's second 3-round fight in the UFC, it's crazy

Anywhere online can watch the countdown?

EDIT: nevermind found it

Anonomyte

Looking forward to this, I put a bet on Nogueira to win at paddypower for the craic, I reckon Silva has Jardine sorted as well. Looks like a good card.

bret69

I just logged in to my paddy power account and saw that I had 1.33 left in there...I thought I had nothing.

So I put the 1.33 on a double - Couture to win in Round 2 and Silva to win in round 3.

If it comes up I get 70 back!

Not a bad bet for the odds!

Rocky Balboa 2

Put on a 5 match accumulator for tonight to make it more enjoyable.

Marcus Aurelio vs Evan Dunham
Brandon Vera vs Krzysztov Soszynski
Nate Marquardt vs Demian Maia
Randy Couture vs Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
Ed Herman vs Aaron Simpson

Minotauro over Couture is the brave one imo. I do expect Maia to beat Nate.
Got that at just over 21/1. put a tenner on it

Anonomyte

Rocky Balboa 2 wrote: »

Put on a 5 match accumulator for tonight to make it more enjoyable.

Marcus Aurelio vs Evan Dunham
Brandon Vera vs Krzysztov Soszynski
Nate Marquardt vs Demian Maia
Randy Couture vs Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
Ed Herman vs Aaron Simpson

Minotauro over Couture is the brave one imo. I do expect Maia to beat Nate.
Got that at just over 21/1. put a tenner on it

I bet on Mir in the first Mir-Lesnar fight, made 78 euro out of that one.:D

jayteecork

Got fairly crazy odds here:
Bet ref: 259/242€2.00 Accumulator
Market Selection Price
UFC 102 - Gonzaga v Tuchscherer
To Win Fight Tuchscherer, Chris 16/5
UFC 102 - Maia v Marquardt
To Win Fight Maia, Demian 31/20
UFC 102 - Soszynski v Vera
To Win Fight Soszynski, Krzysztof 8/5
UFC 102 - Couture v Nogueira
To Win Fight Nogueira, Antonio Rodrigo 11/8
UFC 102 - Jardine v Silva
To Win Fight Silva, Thiago 11/10
Total stake €2.00
Estimated return €277.76
Full stake €2.00
Full Estimated return €277.76

Rocky Balboa 2

jayteecork wrote: »

Got fairly crazy odds here:
Bet ref: 259/242€2.00 Accumulator
Market Selection Price
UFC 102 - Gonzaga v Tuchscherer
To Win Fight Tuchscherer, Chris 16/5
UFC 102 - Maia v Marquardt
To Win Fight Maia, Demian 31/20
UFC 102 - Soszynski v Vera
To Win Fight Soszynski, Krzysztof 8/5
UFC 102 - Couture v Nogueira
To Win Fight Nogueira, Antonio Rodrigo 11/8
UFC 102 - Jardine v Silva
To Win Fight Silva, Thiago 11/10
Total stake €2.00
Estimated return €277.76
Full stake €2.00
Full Estimated return €277.76

maybe because you went for the underdog in each of those fights??

jayteecork

Rocky Balboa 2 wrote: »

maybe because you went for the underdog in each of those fights??

Only on advise of Fozzy!

That's only one of my bets going on. Have 4 altogether. Good mix.
Should break even anyway.

noodletop

mod edit illegal streams

jayteecork

noodletop wrote: »

online tonight for free
http://www.justin.tv/worldwrestlingrocks

It'll be taken down off Justin TV, don't worry about that.

In fact if you're looking to watch it via illegal stream you'll be jumping from one site to the next.

noodletop

seen the last 2 no probs on there , hopefully same this time

bigslick

What time is this on?

Fozzy

bigslick wrote: »

What time is this on?

3am Irish time, same as always

Fozzy

jayteecork wrote: »

Only on advise of Fozzy!

So I'll be seeing some of it should it come through? :pac:

I really do think that the odds on Tuchscherer are great. From what I've seen he's very good, and the UFC put him straight onto this card when he auditioned for TUF because they liked what they saw. And bearing in mind some of the guys that are in TUF this season, that says something

noodletop

bigslick wrote: »

What time is this on?

if the site is gettin shut down i will post diff link to watch the rest of it just come back here for link later, if you want to watch it all

Rocky Balboa 2

anyone know where to check undercard results while they happen or something like that? Thanks

jayteecork

Rocky Balboa 2 wrote: »

anyone know where to check undercard results while they happen or something like that? Thanks

wikpedia usually updates the results within seconds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFC_102

But there's probably better sites for checking results - sherdog maybe?

Rocky Balboa 2

Rocky Balboa 2 wrote: »

Put on a 5 match accumulator for tonight to make it more enjoyable.

Marcus Aurelio vs Evan Dunham
Brandon Vera vs Krzysztov Soszynski
Nate Marquardt vs Demian Maia
Randy Couture vs Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
Ed Herman vs Aaron Simpson

Minotauro over Couture is the brave one imo. I do expect Maia to beat Nate.
Got that at just over 21/1. put a tenner on it

fcuk it anyway. Aurelio lost by Split Decision lol

rovert

Fozzy wrote: »

So I'll be seeing some of it should it come through? :pac:

I really do think that the odds on Tuchscherer are great. From what I've seen he's very good, and the UFC put him straight onto this card when he auditioned for TUF because they liked what they saw. And bearing in mind some of the guys that are in TUF this season, that says something

Like a lack personality? :pac:

The match placement seems to indicate that this a match to give Chris a win than a match for Gabe.

Rocky Balboa 2 wrote: »

anyone know where to check undercard results while they happen or something like that? Thanks

http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/10435/

rovert

McCully lasted to a decision :eek:

Tuchscherer is now/next

rovert

Ah balls

noodletop

mod edit illegal streams

jayteecork

Poor Maia.
All the training then 21 secs, WHAM!