some metal im currently working on

DamagedTrax

band is from newry, called ozzmium. recorded it in the engine room thru the amek rembrandt.

outboard used:

1176 silver face
distressor
la audio comps
drawmer 1960
neve pre

mics:
drums - the usual suspects (57, 421, 414 etc)
rhythm guitars - re27, sm57
lead guitars - re27, 414
bass - DI and re-amped (ampeg svx head)
vox - u87, 414

this is only the first test mix so any opinions would be nice and appreciated

http://rapidshare.com/files/271703469/PRAY_FOR_REIGN_TEST_MASTER.mp3.html

henessjon

Lovely original stuff would like to catch them live ???

I listened thru amp tannoy 5 speakers (not studio mons)

like a real fan would...

sounds great

for my taste drums too far back in mix in relativity to gtrs and vox generally dry.
these are noticeable at high volumes ok on low volume

great panning effx on vox

DamagedTrax

henessjon wrote: »

Lovely original stuff would like to catch them live ???

I listened thru amp tannoy 5 speakers (not studio mons)

like a real fan would...

sounds great

for my taste drums too far back in mix in relativity to gtrs and vox generally dry.
these are noticeable at high volumes ok on low volume

great panning effx on vox

yeah drums def need to come a little forward but the vox are covered in reverb and delay already!

Welease

Download limit of 10 has been reached

DamagedTrax

here you go

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5FE2XY2N

tubedude

Sounds really good, don't know if I agree 'bout the drums though, I think you're on the mark, I know that kinda style and guitars rule, drums get pushed back. There's so many great songs in that genre where the drums are surprisingly low, well snare in particular. but it just works at that level. If I was gonna say anything bout the snare, ...bit bigger maybe, but not louder if ya get me...

trackmixstudio

Hi Barry.
A few things jumped out at me.
Too much high mids overall making it a bit fatiguing.
The centre image is weak due to kick and snare too low and lacking depth.
The main guitars lack clarity. Probably due to the mix of 2 mics causing phase cancellation. I have never been able to get a mix of 2 mics to sound as good as one 57 in the right place. It also sounds like the same amp/mic/pre for left/right. I always use a different guitar, head and mic pre for each side. Usually a Mesa TR and Peavey 6505.a tube screamer REALLY helps too.
A neumann of any LDC is a no go for metal vox. AN SM7 or 57 or Audix i5 will sound much better and give the vocal more mid range attack.
If you have the wavs PM and come over and we can do a mix.
If you have guitar DIs all the better.
Metal is very different to "normal" recording. I can show you lots of tricks.
Here is a recent metal mix I did.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/7/1328148/01%20Track%2001.mp3
Michael

DamagedTrax

cheers michael.. if i had time i definitly would come over but i need this away for the weekend.. next time definitly.

the guitars were

jackson thru a triple rectifier and

prs thru a begura head. unfortunatly we only had 1 cab for the day (a marshell 1960).
ill probably take out the 2nd mic on each side and see how it sounds with just the re27 or sm57 (maybe 1 on each side? or would i be better sticking to just the 57 (the fact that its the same cab makes me want 2 seperate mics)
unfotunatly we only have DI's of the lead as we were having a few problems with the supertrue and it affected the routing a little.

the centre is going to be lifted up today (like i said its only a first mix)

the harshness definitly needs cleaning up. after resting the ears im especially noticing it when the phaser kicks in on the guitar.. it just seems to sit right on top of the overheads.

for the vox the neumann was only on the clean vocal with the 414 looking after the screams (with a pad on it) i also have a touch of tube dist on the vocals and i had driven the 1176 down to tape.

i'll throw up another mix tomorrow when ive worked more on it.

ZV Yoda

Feckin' hell lads - great thread

...there's some amount of engineering/production info in this thread... mic choice, DI vs. mic, panning, EQ... yis have covered all of that in just a handful of posts.

Would love to hear how the mix progresses DT!

trackmixstudio

Put an analyzer on the kick and see where the meat and attack are. Hi pass at about 20 then boost the meat (usually about 60-100) and the attack (usually about 5-6k) then pull the mids to hell out between these 2 points.
Squash to hell with attack set to just slower than where it kills the kick and set release to about a quarter bar. This may seem long but it will really give power to the double kicks.
Don't boost the highs on the OHs. Instead pull the mids where the snare is in them and hi pass at about 120. Add a sample if possible.
The snare is tuned way too high (fuppin metal drummers) so not much can be done unless you sample enhance it with a sample with some balls instead of just the attack there now.
On the main drum buss pull some 200-300 and boost wide at 2k by 2-3db.

Put a multiband compressor on the guitars and find the mud. It will be an obvious bass ring at about 250-450. Use one band of the MBC on this area and suck it back 5-6db. This will let the kick and bass gtr through the mix. They are buried at the moment. Cut a small hole the the gtrs for the snare.
Marshall 1960 are not a great cab for modern metal. They have celestion g12s which are very scratchy at 2-5k. If you are doing more metal try and get a celestion v30 cab (mesa, orange, 1960av etc). V30s LOVE metal.

Push lots of mid on the bass at about 1k. Cut at 90-110 to let the toms and kick through. Boost at about 80 then hi pass at about 20.

The LDCs are making the vocals too big. As I said earlier a dynamic is much better.
Try hi passing as high as you can then boost 2-5k on the vox to get them to cut through. You can then lower them to sit better in the mix.

The problem with mixing metal is that everything has to be loud at the same time resulting in lots of notch eqing to give everything space.
None of the above may apply depending on the raw tracks but from listening most of it should.

DamagedTrax

cheers for the advice michael :cool:

ill have an update tomorrow hopefully.

henessjon

trackmixstudio wrote: »

Hi Barry.
A few things jumped out at me.
Too much high mids overall making it a bit fatiguing.
The centre image is weak due to kick and snare too low and lacking depth.
The main guitars lack clarity. Probably due to the mix of 2 mics causing phase cancellation. I have never been able to get a mix of 2 mics to sound as good as one 57 in the right place. It also sounds like the same amp/mic/pre for left/right. I always use a different guitar, head and mic pre for each side. Usually a Mesa TR and Peavey 6505.a tube screamer REALLY helps too.
A neumann of any LDC is a no go for metal vox. AN SM7 or 57 or Audix i5 will sound much better and give the vocal more mid range attack.
If you have the wavs PM and come over and we can do a mix.
If you have guitar DIs all the better.
Metal is very different to "normal" recording. I can show you lots of tricks.
Here is a recent metal mix I did.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/7/1328148/01%20Track%2001.mp3
Michael

the vocals are very similar in a devils way... and chalk and cheese

but DT is 1st mix

i wonder can we have a listen to the final mix to compare ... Preetty please to DT

trackmix great sound- if you enjoy the genre

Im so far down from reaching these heights its depressin...

if you ever need a tea boy on an overnighter or weekend I;ll volunteer

I;ll even switch to logic

PaulBrewer

Reign, Reign go away ....

trackmixstudio

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Reign, Reign go away ....

Would the buttheads turn away a metal album if a band wanted to book the studio for a few weeks?.
I don't think so.
Metal is a big market with lots of bands willing to spend money on recording.
A rarity these days.:p

I'm only winding you up Paul because you always have a go at metal:D

PaulBrewer

trackmixstudio wrote: »

Would the buttheads turn away a metal album if a band wanted to book the studio for a few weeks?.
I don't think so.
Metal is a big market with lots of bands willing to spend money on recording.
A rarity these days.:p

I'm only winding you up Paul because you always have a go at metal:D

We would actually !
Everyman to his own though ....

henessjon

do I smell Musical snobbery

PaulBrewer

Does that smell Jon ?

DamagedTrax

i can understand paul's point of view. you either love metal or hate it. its like any extreme genre of music.

i was lucky in that i grew up on carcass, death, napalm, terrorizer etc etc but i have a lot of mates who are seriously into their music who cant stand metal.

each to their own.

Aridstarling

Just want to echo the previous sentiment that there is a wealth of info in this thread! I've recently been recording a good bit more metal than I'm at all used to (more of an acoustic guitar guy me) and I'm sure I'll have more to do in the future and I've been finding it a tough style to work in. Some of Mick's tips here have been really eye-opening, keep it all coming lads!

PaulBrewer

That's interesting about the amount of metal being recorded.
Is it the bands are recording more or (Gawd Forbid!) there are more bands or both ?

Aridstarling

For me its a bit of both. There certainly does seem to be a plethora of young metal bands in my area (the midlands) and they do want to record quite a bit. Might just be a song or three but its something anyway. Getting them in the door is always the problem, such is youth.

PaulBrewer

Interesting .

I don't think there has been one Metal band into Joe's yet.

trackmixstudio

Metal is more of a lifestyle music than most so the bands tend to be more fanatical than your average indie or rock band.
There has been a big resurgence in the past few years mainly due to the lack of any exciting new types of alternative music coming out. If kids want to be different and part of a scene there isn't much else. There used to be grunge,punk,goth etc but they have all but died out.
If a metal gig is on there is usually a very good turn out.
There are more bands recording more. I have done 3 metal albums so far this year and have another 2 booked in before the end of the year.

I don't think it is snobbery on Paul's part. I won't do singer songwriters or trad or dance because I am not into that music and don't think the artists would get a good result with me. Recording music you don't enjoy is soul destroying unless you have no bookings and the mortgage is due:o

Aridstarling

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Interesting .

I don't think there has been one Metal band into Joe's yet.

I charge a little less than Joe...;)

I'm lucky enough to be able to say I am into metal to an extent, Mastodon ranking among my favourite bands, full stop. Can't say everything is up my alley, but that's natural. From a recording perspective though, its a very steep learning curve coming from what I'm used to recording, more in the singer-songwriter/indie band vein.

henessjon

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Does that smell Jon ?

only if you want it to paul....

metal is a genre to see live not listen to at home lol

its all in the show

hairy chests rule
:P

Anima

Metal has to be one of my most detested genres. Not only because of the music as such but because of the people that like it. If I had to have a go at why I didn't like the music, the vocals would definitely come in at number one. The complete lack of rhythm would come in a close second. I find that the majority of people that listen to metal have little tolerence to other types of music. That attitude makes my blood ****ing boil to be quite honest. (Basing that on the people I know who like the genre)

Having said that, I can see the difficulty in mixing and mastering it. I've always had a problem with getting an element in a track that was distorted to sit right and not interfer with everything else. You really have to EQ the balls off something distorted to get it right. Good thread for that.

henessjon

Gosh Anima let it out and BREATH 1......2........10

back to the thread guys

there are 2 mixes here one in progress and one very shiny fine piece of work, Im waiting to hear the finished work.

dav nagle

Well done DT very good job. I'll have to have a listen properly in my studio today when I get out of bed. It takes alot of work to control that kind of a mix so well done on that front it has great moments. I really like the chants, they were done really well. The solo is rocking too. The snare sounds a like it has an Ozone Reverb on it but then again I may be wrong. Good work amigo fair play to you.



'' Music of the devil ''

trackmixstudio

Anima wrote: »

Metal has to be one of my most detested genres. Not only because of the music as such but because of the people that like it. If I had to have a go at why I didn't like the music, the vocals would definitely come in at number one. The complete lack of rhythm would come in a close second. I find that the majority of people that listen to metal have little tolerence to other types of music. That attitude makes my blood ****ing boil to be quite honest. (Basing that on the people I know who like the genre)

Having said that, I can see the difficulty in mixing and mastering it. I've always had a problem with getting an element in a track that was distorted to sit right and not interfer with everything else. You really have to EQ the balls off something distorted to get it right. Good thread for that.

Instead of posting a rant at 4am maybe you should get some sleep. You may be less cranky then:p
Fair point on the vocals. That's an opinion but to say "complete lack of rhythm" is just plain wrong. Good metal has more complex rhythms than other music.
It is very unusual to hear pop/rock in anything other than 4/4 or 3/4.
For example:
http://mog.com/EricS37/blog/38219
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS7CZIJVxFY
Tool. Dumbass metallers;)

DamagedTrax

Not only because of the music as such but because of the people that like it

:eek::eek::eek:

wow, bit harsh?

DamagedTrax

dav nagle wrote: »

Well done DT very good job. I'll have to have a listen properly in my studio today when I get out of bed. It takes alot of work to control that kind of a mix so well done on that front it has great moments. I really like the chants, they were done really well. The solo is rocking too. The snare sounds a like it has an Ozone Reverb on it but then again I may be wrong. Good work amigo fair play to you.



'' Music of the devil ''

cheers dav. snare has a lexcion plate from the pantheon 2 plug. might change it. i just activated the EMT250 demo on the UAD so ill try that but it might be a touch too lush for the style?

DamagedTrax

will have a final (ish :pac:) mix up later today. just bringing it down to the batcave to run it thru a studer a80 2 track :cool::cool:

SeanHurley

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Interesting .

I don't think there has been one Metal band into Joe's yet.

I had a metal band down there Paul, pre SSL and pre downstairs being there. They have since broken up.

henessjon

you seem to have taken on board all the comments very polished output



im still available ?

im sure the band love it too!


the name could be improved but thats off subject

ad thanks for the update I was wondering about

Colpriz

DamagedTrax wrote: »

band is from newry, called ozzmium. recorded it in the engine room thru the amek rembrandt.

outboard used:

1176 silver face
distressor
la audio comps
drawmer 1960
neve pre

mics:
drums - the usual suspects (57, 421, 414 etc)
rhythm guitars - re27, sm57
lead guitars - re27, 414
bass - DI and re-amped (ampeg svx head)
vox - u87, 414

this is only the first test mix so any opinions would be nice and appreciated

http://rapidshare.com/files/271703469/PRAY_FOR_REIGN_TEST_MASTER.mp3.html

You want opinion on recording or the type of music you feature?
I guess you are prety comfortable with the type of music you play or you wouldnt be doing it? Though I thought the drums were sloppy in places, maybe a consequence of not being full in the mix. Guitar solo was most liberating thing from the chunk chunk & vocal squarm presented. All these people will tell you you sound great, why? because they listen to nothing different..nothing real to compare you to..there must be one among you to listen to reason?

Seziertisch

Colpriz wrote: »

You want opinion on recording or the type of music you feature?
I guess you are prety comfortable with the type of music you play or you wouldnt be doing it? Though I thought the drums were sloppy in places, maybe a consequence of not being full in the mix. Guitar solo was most liberating thing from the chunk chunk & vocal squarm presented. All these people will tell you you sound great, why? because they listen to nothing different..nothing real to compare you to..there must be one among you to listen to reason?

Riiiiiiiight. Anyway.

Overall sounding pretty good. Good and fairly plausible separation between the instruments.

The rhythm guitars could have had a bit more spread/heft and could have been sitting closer around the (main singing) vocals which I think stands a bit too forward in spots. There was some talk of reamping (maybe) so I don't know if you went that route, but a lot of times that classic metal rhythm guitar sound is down to doubling of tight performances. Panning a track hard left and hard right and then shifting one back a few samples can work ok in situations like that too. I also think looking at the guitars used, a good Les Paul would have brought a heft to proceedings that wouldn't have done any harm. An auld Royer 121/122 or a multi-amp set up wouldn't have gone astray either. All that said they are sounding respectable, and just like the above poster I thought the solo sounded pretty good, too ;-)

Otherwise I think the rhythm section is sitting nicely together and sounds typical/respectable for the kind of music.

Overall, buladh bos. I presume the lads in the band are happy with it?

DamagedTrax

Colpriz wrote: »

You want opinion on recording or the type of music you feature?
I guess you are prety comfortable with the type of music you play or you wouldnt be doing it? Though I thought the drums were sloppy in places, maybe a consequence of not being full in the mix. Guitar solo was most liberating thing from the chunk chunk & vocal squarm presented. All these people will tell you you sound great, why? because they listen to nothing different..nothing real to compare you to..there must be one among you to listen to reason?

.. ok... not my band dude

DamagedTrax

Seziertisch wrote: »

Riiiiiiiight. Anyway.

Overall sounding pretty good. Good and fairly plausible separation between the instruments.

The rhythm guitars could have had a bit more spread/heft and could have been sitting closer around the (main singing) vocals which I think stands a bit too forward in spots. There was some talk of reamping (maybe) so I don't know if you went that route, but a lot of times that classic metal rhythm guitar sound is down to doubling of tight performances. Panning a track hard left and hard right and then shifting one back a few samples can work ok in situations like that too. I also think looking at the guitars used, a good Les Paul would have brought a heft to proceedings that wouldn't have done any harm. An auld Royer 121/122 or a multi-amp set up wouldn't have gone astray either. All that said they are sounding respectable, and just like the above poster I thought the solo sounded pretty good, too ;-)

Otherwise I think the rhythm section is sitting nicely together and sounds typical/respectable for the kind of music.

Overall, buladh bos. I presume the lads in the band are happy with it?

cheers man,

yeah, given a 2nd go at it i'd probably change a few things here and there. time being one of them . we only had 1 day and there was a 3 hour wobble before we got the first drum track down. but overall im happy with it and the lads are too. so its all good

edit: just listening back i may just lift the kick a touch... does it ever end? :-)

dav nagle

Colpriz wrote: »

All these people will tell you you sound great, why? because they listen to nothing different..nothing real to compare you to..there must be one among you to listen to reason?

Now I see the truth, we are all just licking up to eachother. We are pushing are tongues in and out, slowly. Thank you master.

DamagedTrax

right, took the mix down. wanna re-visit the kick..

wil post up another "final" version soon :pac:

DamagedTrax

dav nagle wrote: »

Now I see the truth, we are all just licking up to eachother. We are pushing are tongues in and out, slowly. Thank you master.

dav you saucy minx...

DamagedTrax

right, brought the drums up a touch and pulled the singing vocal back a slight touch.. fingers crossed

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TYWFL0AB

tubedude

I'm sure you guys are gonna pick out something, but I think it's sounds mighty! Has more 'oomph' to it with the new kick. Vocals sit better too...

Seziertisch

DamagedTrax wrote: »

right, brought the drums up a touch and pulled the singing vocal back a slight touch.. fingers crossed

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TYWFL0AB

Definitely sounding a bit more together. Did you change something on the guitars? There were previously a bit more toppy?

DamagedTrax

Seziertisch wrote: »

Definitely sounding a bit more together. Did you change something on the guitars? There were previously a bit more toppy?

no, the guitars stayed the same. possibly when the drums came up the OH took over a lot of the top end?

all i did was raise the drums and then when i was (ahem ) "mastering" it, i eased off on the limiter to let the transients thru a touch more.

oh hang on, i took of a touch of m/s eq on the master. i'd pushed the side highs a touch. i'd say thats why the guitars arent as bright now.