Road closed in Carpenterstown today?

Lightnessalways

Stark wrote: »

Anyway, bit late, but I meant to apologise for my own behaviour on thread. I was a bit wound up at the time and I forgot the rule about thinking before posting stuff in the heat of the moment. I'm sorry for making false accusations and being rude.

I still stand by my opinion though that a good traffic calming system should include as many active elements that make drivers think as possible and should not just rely on inert measures like speed bumps. I passionately believe in shared spaces as a way towards achieving this goal, although with the way the road is at present, we're a good bit off from that. With the speed bumps however, I think we will eventually get to a point of speed bump saturation and everyone will just adapt by buying cars with higher wheelbases and better suspension and we will be back to square one. They're also problematic for emergency services trying to get through, in particular ambulances carrying sensitive equipment. I think mini roundabouts and chicanes (artificial curvature to reduce the temptation to speed on long straight stretches) and the like are better imo as they force people to pay attention more and the emergency services can just drive straight over the roundabouts. Just some ideas for your meeting.

Hi Stark,

Thank you for your apology (and its never too late!) I think everyone was a bit wound up at the start of these postings, what happened on the Road here was truly shocking for everyone, and living quiet close to where it happened and having meet Càit I think I was a bit heit up too, the entire estate was in shock and extremely upset, So we can start again from scatch!! if that okay with you??

Reading your last comments I have to say I wholly agree with the points you have made with regards to traffic calming...see what happens..when people make a few suggestions! great ideas!! everyones opinion can make a difference and who knows maybe even persuade people to take a step back and look at the bigger picture and really try as a community working together and not against each other (as a organisations would love to see happen) we could acheive so much more. So here's hoping all was not in vain.

Take care and thanks again! it is appreciated

Pineapple stu

dirtynosebeps wrote: »

wrong, cait actually ran out from in front of a parked bus.



i'm sorry to say to this but what you've said is utter bull unless of course you were there to witness the tragic death. there are a few people that actually knows what really happened that afternoon and none of them are on here.



stark just to give you and idea, about 15-20 yards up at most from where cait was killed is a set of pedestrian lights which are constantly being used, when approaching any set of lights you must be prepared to stop.
i'm sick and tired of people saying hardly anyone speeds. i'll tell ya all something for nothing. it aint also the crowd from blanch, corduff or where ever else you want to blame for speeding. it's your neighbours, it's also alot of residents that live between the school and the new flyover bridge that tear up and down that road.and i can also tell you all this as well. it's a game of beat the clock and thats exactly what alot of muppets are trying to do.
as i posted earlier. i once saw a traffic jeep parked behind a bus doing a speed check. all other road users were flashing all the other cars to slow down .so everyone that flashed the other driver are as much to blame for whats going on. if the speeders are being caught instead of being flashed to slow down things would be different.
if your not speeding i.e. sticking within the speed limit for those of you that dont understand meaning of speeding you wont have to slow down anyway for a speed check.
now for gods sake stop blaming the young girl and stop making excuses.

From behind or in front makes no diffrence in this case as the same result would have happened.
What exactly do you find as utter bull?

Then i agree with most of your post but how can you tell someone to stop blaming the child ? Be realistic here, why always blame the motorist? Did she walk to retrive what she wanted after firstly checking that the road was clear and safe for her to do so? did the car come speeding round a corner with no chance of avoiding her or did she just run into the road without checking?
Seeing that you havent actually told us exactly how it happened then we are entitled to our opinions on it going by what was reported.

Pineapple stu

Stark wrote: »

Anyway, bit late, but I meant to apologise for my own behaviour on thread. I was a bit wound up at the time and I forgot the rule about thinking before posting stuff in the heat of the moment. I'm sorry for making false accusations and being rude.

I still stand by my opinion though that a good traffic calming system should include as many active elements that make drivers think as possible and should not just rely on inert measures like speed bumps. I passionately believe in shared spaces as a way towards achieving this goal, although with the way the road is at present, we're a good bit off from that. With the speed bumps however, I think we will eventually get to a point of speed bump saturation and everyone will just adapt by buying cars with higher wheelbases and better suspension and we will be back to square one. They're also problematic for emergency services trying to get through, in particular ambulances carrying sensitive equipment. I think mini roundabouts and chicanes (artificial curvature to reduce the temptation to speed on long straight stretches) and the like are better imo as they force people to pay attention more and the emergency services can just drive straight over the roundabouts. Just some ideas for your meeting.

the bus terminus is an issue and getting it removed would be a good start. Maybe getting traffic lights at main points of crossing would help, one either end and one in the middle.
You will always get someone speeding no matter what traffic calming measures are put in place .
I must say though Ive seen far to many people ignoring the mini roundabouts and go straight over them.
There are chicanes in Ballyfermot and Drandale and they are not pleasent on the eye and give off a bad image on the area.
I read that there is no point meeting with your local councillor and saying you want the road sorted unless you know exactly what you want done and then sticking with it.

oblivious

cymro wrote: »

the bus terminus is an issue and getting it removed would be a good start. Maybe getting traffic lights at main points of crossing would help, one either end and one in the middle.

I believe there was proposals to move it to the Blanch center but there was objections.

BostonB

As far as I know the move of the terminus to the center is still on.

The terminus has been moved already. It used to almost opposite the entrance of the road it's near now. Buses used to park both sides of the roads making it blind for people coming out of that road. After a lot of complaints the moved it up slightly. I don't understand why it's on the narrowest part o the road. I think the reason is they won't route up Riverwood road because of the ramps there.

You've got to to wonder at the mindset that places a terminus so badly.

Stark

cymro wrote: »

From behind or in front makes no diffrence in this case as the same result would have happened.
What exactly do you find as utter bull?

Then i agree with most of your post but how can you tell someone to stop blaming the child ? Be realistic here, why always blame the motorist? Did she walk to retrive what she wanted after firstly checking that the road was clear and safe for her to do so? did the car come speeding round a corner with no chance of avoiding her or did she just run into the road without checking?
Seeing that you havent actually told us exactly how it happened then we are entitled to our opinions on it going by what was reported.

It's simple. If you see a child standing on the footpath at the side of the road, you slow down to a speed that allows you to stop if the child should suddenly run out. At least to below 50km/hr which is the legal speed limit in a residential area anyway. If you see a bus pulled into the side of the road as well, there's always a good chance that someone (whether it be an adult or a child) is going to emerge from behind the bus. You don't just zoom right past the bus like you're Michael Schumacher on the race circuit.

Gaspode

BostonB wrote: »

..... I don't understand why it's on the narrowest part o the road. I think the reason is they won't route up Riverwood road because of the ramps there.

There are ramps in a vst number of the housing estates in Dublin, no reason why that should prevent the bus using any road.

dirtynosebeps

cymro wrote: »

From behind or in front makes no diffrence in this case as the same result would have happened.
What exactly do you find as utter bull?

this is

cymro wrote:

In this incident the fault was with the child and not the road or any driver

BostonB wrote: »

As far as I know the move of the terminus to the center is still on.

The terminus has been moved already. It used to almost opposite the entrance of the road it's near now. Buses used to park both sides of the roads making it blind for people coming out of that road. After a lot of complaints the moved it up slightly. I don't understand why it's on the narrowest part o the road. I think the reason is they won't route up Riverwood road because of the ramps there.

You've got to to wonder at the mindset that places a terminus so badly.

the terminus to the centre was refused so therefore, non runner.
the terminus has not been moved. the drivers are not using the layby as a matter of courtesy, respect and privacy to the family of young cait and to let anyone who wants to lay flowers or pay their respects to the young girl.
the saddest thing of all is that at the end of the year young cait will only be a number on R.T.E. news when they do their road deaths tally for 2009.
i'd also like to add.

cymro wrote:

In this incident the fault was with the child and not the road or any driver

this should never have been allowed to go to post. it's totally insensitive to both the family and those that knew her. the family are going through enough without this being put on public show.and as i also said the few people that were around when it actually happened are not on here and i assume you cymro were not one of those that witnessed the death. so therefore there was no need to post this. nobody knows the full facts of what actually happened.

Gaspode

dirtynosebeps wrote: »

nobody knows the full facts of what actually happened.

Aint that the truth.



Only the child and the driver have the full facts, eyewitnesses have a version of what happened, and anything else is just conjecture.

Nevertheless, the discussion continues because people have their own opinions on what might have happened, why it happened, whose fault it was, and what should be done to prevent it. I'm happy to let such a discussion run provided it remains a discussion not a bitching session.

Having the opinion that the child may have been in the wrong is not necessarily insensitive or wrong, its just an opinion. What I've heard (and it is just hearsay) seems to point to the fact that the child broke the rules of the road by running out sudenly onto it, there's no evidence (that I've seen or heard of) that the driver did anything wrong, so while it might be hurtful for anyone who knows the child to hear that, thats unfortunately the way it appears to be.

If you object to what another poster here is saying, can you offer any salient points to counter their argument? Do you know what exactly happened?

BostonB

Gaspode wrote: »

There are ramps in a vst number of the housing estates in Dublin, no reason why that should prevent the bus using any road.

The ramps are very severe at the roundabout. Maybe that was the reason. My experience of Dublin Bus, is they'll tell you anything. I've heard about half a dozen reasons. They put in bus stops then took them out. Who knows.

dirtynosebeps wrote: »

this is
the terminus to the centre was refused so therefore, non runner.
the terminus has not been moved. the drivers are not using the layby as a matter of courtesy, respect and privacy to the family of young cait and to let anyone who wants to lay flowers or pay their respects to the young ....

The layby isn't the terminus. Never was. Where the terminus is, outside fernleigh has moved about 100m back from where it used to be. Its the narrowest part of that road. Where the layby is probably the widest part of the road. They should have put a turning layby in a field at the bottom of the new bridge like they did in clonsilla.

Pineapple stu

There isnt much that can be done for that stretch of road apart from a couple of speed bumps. The problem with these is that if they are full length ones then the buses complain and if they are quarterd ones so that the buses pass over them then it defeats the purpose as the buses can go at speed over them and cars swerve near the kerb to lessen the bump.
There is already signs up saying children playing , a roundabout and a pedestrian crossing, so what other option is there? Another crossing at certain location? A permanent speed camera?

BostonB

Why not?

Toll the bridge!

Pineapple stu

Why not what?

Toll the bridge? there is enough complaining about the m50 one as it is

BostonB

Camera.

Yes I was sooo serious about the toll.

iMADEtheBBC

So much speculation and assumption here it beggars belief.

I was there that day and I think everyone would do well to wait until the investigation is completed.

I'm particularly annoyed at two self-appointed residents spokespeople who gave interviews to local newspapers. For the record they don't speak for me and I don't want speed bumps or any other traffic calming measures brought in.

I want the law enforced along that road. A permanent speed camera would be a start. Then let's see enforcement of no parking on a roundabout at St Patricks N.S. and while we're at it I want to see a stop to the parking along the road between the site of this accident and the roundabout - there is a single white line for a reason: this road is narrower to accomodate the more than adequate cycle tracks. While we're at it I want to see proper follow up on complaints of speeding along the road. I gave up calling the Gardai over 3 years ago when I gave them the address of one of the boy-racer cars that was speeding up and down the road on saturday afternoons and no action was taken. Cyclists need to get off the road and onto the cycle path before one of them is injured or worse. The same offenders every morning and evening are putting themselves at risk. Parents need to teach their children to walk on the pavement and not the cycle path.


This is not the first accident on that stretch of road and it will not be the last.

BostonB

I agree you on all the above except for the cyclists. The cycle path isn't suitable for cycle commuters. for reasons listed earlier.

BostonB wrote: »

...The cycle lanes are unsuitable for commuting cyclists. They are badly constructed with rippled tarmac which shakes you to bits, then you get poked in the eye by the low hanging branches which aren't cut back. They start and stop for no reason. All the pedistrians ignore that its a cycle lane. If you think they are suitable, then you can't possibly cycle on them. Fine for kids or moms with buggys. Thats all.

Theres no continuous cycle lane from D.15 into the Phonenix park, or into St Patricks school either. Useful Cycle lanes that don't go anywhere. It should be on the road and continuous all the way to the park, or O'connell bridge tbh....

Also even if you use it, you have to go on the road anyway. Because it doesn't go anywhere. It doesn't go to the shops, its doesn't go to the school, it doesn't go the phoenix park. It doesn't go anwhere. its doesn't even go around the estate fully. Its stops as soon as you leave Riverwood. So you HAVE to go on the road. As a cyclist you are used to being on the road, because most of the time there are no cycle paths. If you cycling from town you've spend about 20 mins on the road before you hit Riverwood. Assuming you've come through the park, and been on the cycle path.

BostonB

Hard to read that without quote tags

I assume this road is actually handed over from the developer at this stage?

Lightnessalways

iMADEtheBBC wrote: »

So much speculation and assumption here it beggars belief.

I was there that day and I think everyone would do well to wait until the investigation is completed.

I'm particularly annoyed at two self-appointed residents spokespeople who gave interviews to local newspapers. For the record they don't speak for me and I don't want speed bumps or any other traffic calming measures brought in.

I want the law enforced along that road. A permanent speed camera would be a start. Then let's see enforcement of no parking on a roundabout at St Patricks N.S. and while we're at it I want to see a stop to the parking along the road between the site of this accident and the roundabout - there is a single white line for a reason: this road is narrower to accomodate the more than adequate cycle tracks. While we're at it I want to see proper follow up on complaints of speeding along the road. I gave up calling the Gardai over 3 years ago when I gave them the address of one of the boy-racer cars that was speeding up and down the road on saturday afternoons and no action was taken. Cyclists need to get off the road and onto the cycle path before one of them is injured or worse. The same offenders every morning and evening are putting themselves at risk. Parents need to teach their children to walk on the pavement and not the cycle path.


This is not the first accident on that stretch of road and it will not be the last.

BostonB wrote: »

Hard to read that without quote tags

I assume this road is actually handed over from the developer at this stage?

As far as I am aware, Yes it has.

Lightnessalways

iMADEtheBBC wrote: »

So much speculation and assumption here it beggars belief.

I was there that day and I think everyone would do well to wait until the investigation is completed. .

As we all seem to be on the same side with regards to the issues on the Diswellstown road, Lets try and clear up some things here and I am sorry for what you must have witnessed on that day, I wouldn't wish it on anyone but people are voicing their opinions and concerns and you are not the only one that was there on the day in question. The truth about this awful accident will not be know until the inquest is held. But that is besides the point and will never take away from the loss the Quinn family are enduring.


That's fine you can be annoyed if you want to and you are entitled to your opinion, these people are not self appointed they were asked for their opinions about the accident and whether you agree with them or not is totally up to you. Also speed bumps / other traffic calming measures are only ideas being put out there, every input / suggestion is apprecitated.




I also want to see the law enforced on this road, I also have a pain in my face complaining / ringing The Gardai / Fingal Co. Co to complain about driver behaviour on this road and I will not stop doing so until such time as something finally gets done. The last time I rang the Gardai station to complain about the situation about the ridiculous parking up that the other school at the Roundabout at Canon Troy Bridge I was told that I would have to physically go to the Gardai Station to make a complaint! how crazy is that!. I totally agree with all the points that you made about enforcement. But sometimes other options need to also be put in place. There was an area action meeting held in Fingal Co.Co. office's last week where a question was raised in regards to traffic calming etc on the Diswellstown Road, the response while they are well aware of the issues was basically the one everyone is getting at the moment is that there are no funds..etc...etc.. however, It was agreed that members of Fingal Co.Co. ie Tommie McManus along with some residents that were there on the day would meet and discuss what the options are. I cannot be more specific as I was not there at the meeting.

All we can hope for is that local residents can get involved with their various associations etc and email local councillors, fingal co.co. gardai, Department of Transport and continously put pressure and demands on these people to do something, because they would all gladly have you believe that no one is complaining about the issues here.


I couldn't agree with you more, I have seen to many incidents already on this road, and a lot of them have gone unreported.

I watched only the other week as a Dublin Bus Driver drove straight through the Pedrestrian lights whilst he was on a red light on the Diswellstown Road just as a mother was pushing a pram along with her two young children were just about to cross the road. Dublin Bus were informed and action will be taken against the driver in question, but that's what we're up against. So we really really need to pull together as a community. Here's to people power.