Road closed in Carpenterstown today?

Random

What's it all about? Just up behind the big green by the shops / Spar. What's going on? Gardai seem to have the road closed.

Zaph

When I was driving home I heard that Diswellstown Road was closed due to a collision. Could that be it?

Random

I guess that could be it. I just thought maybe it was a little more than that as they had the road closed signs out and there seemed to be enough spare Gardai standing around directing traffic.

N_Raid

Word is an 11 year old girl was hit by a bus and killed. Hope its something as simple as a collision tho

Zaph

I did hear elsewhere from a friend who works in Connolly Hospital that an 11 year old girl died in A&E this evening. No idea if it's connected to this though.

Random

11 year old and a car.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0825/rta.html

That's my curiosity answered now anyway

iMADEtheBBC

Unfortunately it was an 11-year old girl who was hit by a car.

I know more details but it would be inappropriate to discuss or speculate.

I had left work early and had to go around Riverwood to get to my home which is near the scene of the accident.

It's an absolute tragedy for the family of the girl and the driver of the car.

Lolly111

that is soooo awful just read on rte there ... i walked past it yesterday on my way home and the gardai were there. just tragic.

dirtynosebeps

iMADEtheBBC wrote: »

Unfortunately it was an 11-year old girl who was hit by a car.

I know more details but it would be inappropriate to discuss or speculate.

I had left work early and had to go around Riverwood to get to my home which is near the scene of the accident.

It's an absolute tragedy for the family of the girl and the driver of the car.

i agree it is unfortunate that the poor kid was killed ,but in saying it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. that road is nothing more than a race track. i've seen it lots of times and any time theres a speed check , what to people do. they flash all the other motorists of course who in turn reduce speed. why do they reduce speed, because they're speeding. if you stick to the speed limit you wont have to reduce speed when theres a speed check.
now hopefully something will be done to make that road alot safer.
before anyone rips me apart.
i've seen the following things happen on an hourly basis.
drivers constantly overtaking on the continous white lines.
vehicles constantly going through the red pedestrian lights.
R.I.P.
damn what a wate of a young life.

Frogy

I urge everyone to please get in touch with all the political reps in the Castleknock/Carpenterstown area. The Diswellstown road was an accident
waiting to happen. Everyone in the area has so much sympathy for the family involved. It really could have happened to the many,many children that live in the area.

We need ramps on that road. It is the only thing that will slow down the
drivers. Drivers go through the red pedestrian lights there all the time. I have seen it on at least 3 occasions.

Lightnessalways

I so agree with you! I am sick to death of writing, calling and complaining to Fingal Co.Co., Gardai, Local politicians to get their fingers out and do something about this road and the race track that it has turned into. Time and time again they were warned that something awful like this would happen and frankly the frightening thing is, is that this will happen again.!

The gloves are now off!! we have to take action and it is up to each individual to hassle, call, write, email whatever it takes to make sure that no other family have to have a tragedy like this one visited upon them. One person can make a difference, it is all fine and very well discussing this on forums like this..but if you don't follow it up, we will only have ourselves to blame, I personally will be knocking on doors in the next couple of weeks to have petitions signed demanding that they traffic calm this road! and all help would be much appreciated as I am sure there are some of you on this forum that live locally and in the different estates. Please don't let Quinn's family tradgey be forgotten. God Bless Càit and may you rest in peace.

Frogy wrote: »

I urge everyone to please get in touch with all the political reps in the Castleknock/Carpenterstown area. The Diswellstown road was an accident
waiting to happen. Everyone in the area has so much sympathy for the family involved. It really could have happened to the many,many children that live in the area.

We need ramps on that road. It is the only thing that will slow down the
drivers. Drivers go through the red pedestrian lights there all the time. I have seen it on at least 3 occasions.

daymobrew

This is indeed a tragic incident and I really feel for the family.

Was this incident as a result of speeding? If not, please don't misrepresent it to solve a different problem.

Frogy wrote: »

We need ramps on that road. It is the only thing that will slow down the drivers. Drivers go through the red pedestrian lights there all the time. I have seen it on at least 3 occasions.

I live off the Riverwood road and I can tell you that ramps do NOT slow drivers down.
Ramps won't stop people going through red lights. We need enforcement!

FCC traffic measurements for Diswellstown Road show that the average speed is 55 km/h, though I am sure that we have all seen that it's not as wonderful as that.
Most of those I have seen speeding are not the often blamed 'boy racer' but in fact they are parents with children in the back, the parents who will likely lead the call for ramps.
Do boy racers park on the double yellow lines (and continuous white line) around St Patrick's School? Do boy racers cause mayhem at St Mochta's and provoke FCC to install a sign about parking on the footpath?

I hate ramps. I don't speed (it is hard to even exceed 30km/h on my bicycle) but I am punished because some do and the Gardai choose to fail to perform their job.
I lived in California for 5 years and never saw a speed ramp. In fact I have only ever seen one set of speed ramps in America - in Long Island. Why is that?

Frogy

I also lived in the states for a number of years and for the most part the driving is very good. People give right of way at 4-way stop signs and keep to the 25mph in built up areas. people in Ireland are dreadful drivers. Everyone thinks they own the road and speeding is seen as the norm! I have rarely seen anyone being pulled over for speeding. The speed limit on that road is 50kph and even when I am going at 50 I have someone up my backside getting pissed off.

I do not know the answer to the speeding on the road. Its a straight road and I think people go into a trance on it. Maybe have more pedestrain lights along the route? Maybe have ramps on either side of the lights? Maybe rumble strips leading to the lights so drivers are aware they exist?

Dont even get me started on the parking at St Patricks! I called the guards 3 days in a row asking that they have someone there at 2:oopm to see the cars parked at the round-a-bout but never saw a guard.

Lightnessalways

daymobrew wrote: »

This is indeed a tragic incident and I really feel for the family.

Was this incident as a result of speeding? If not, please don't misrepresent it to solve a different problem.

I live off the Riverwood road and I can tell you that ramps do NOT slow drivers down.
Ramps won't stop people going through red lights. We need enforcement!

FCC traffic measurements for Diswellstown Road show that the average speed is 55 km/h, though I am sure that we have all seen that it's not as wonderful as that.
Most of those I have seen speeding are not the often blamed 'boy racer' but in fact they are parents with children in the back, the parents who will likely lead the call for ramps.
Do boy racers park on the double yellow lines (and continuous white line) around St Patrick's School? Do boy racers cause mayhem at St Mochta's and provoke FCC to install a sign about parking on the footpath?

I hate ramps. I don't speed (it is hard to even exceed 30km/h on my bicycle) but I am punished because some do and the Gardai choose to fail to perform their job.
I lived in California for 5 years and never saw a speed ramp. In fact I have only ever seen one set of speed ramps in America - in Long Island. Why is that?

I agree with you on the traffic lights issue I have seen many motorists drive straight through the lights with no intention of stopping and many motorists driving with the children in the back of the car with total disregard for themselves, their children and other motorist and pedestrians using the Diswellstowon road. I live facing out onto the Diswellstown road in the estate that that little girl's family live in and I can tell you quiet clearly that the simple fact is, is that there is a large majority of people responsible for the speeding on the Diswellstown Road, and speeding kills! the fact of the matter as it is a matter for the Gardai to determine where speed was a factor, the bus lay by is also a factor in this and regardless of the circumstances of what happened on Tuesday and if there is someone to blame, a child has died needlessly on our road and that is unacceptable and horrific.

Parents parking on the Diswellstown Road for the school drop have a lot to answer for too along with FCC for failing to provide proper parking facilities for parents. I could go on and on and on!! Our lives have been made a misery!! and it is all about to kick off again! parking on double yellows, ignoring the yellow boxs, parking on the roundabout. (People parking iwth their flashing hazzard lights seem to think that makes it okay!) Overtaking on a continuous white line.... parking on both sides of the Diswellstown Road, just total disrespect for residents! and I have to say I have seen parents that live in and around local estates drive their children to school rather that walk a couple of hunderd metres. It beggars belief!

Unfortunately we don't live in a society where we could have traffic cop on each corner enforcing the law and while FCC traffic measurements for Diswellstown Road show that the average speed is 55 km/h,!! I know that that is far from the truth!the average speed on that road is in excess of 70km/m and bear in mind that those speed readers are also incorrectly calibrated they actually under estimate the speed by at least 5km/m and if I am correct that traffic survey was carried out nearly two years ago during the holidays...I may stand corrected on that point however, And finally no disrespect to you but there are cycle lanes on both sides and the entire length of the Diswellstown Road for the safety of cyclists, however many cyclist chose to ignore these purposely provided cycle lanes and cyclist on the main road
putting themselves and motorists in danger! you might reconsider cycling on the main road and use the provided cycle lines instead keeping both yourself and other safe from harm.

daymobrew

Lightnessalways wrote: »

if I am correct that traffic survey was carried out nearly two years ago during the holidays...I may stand corrected on that point however

The survey was done in March 2008 and December 2008. (per Community Voice article).

Lightnessalways wrote: »

And finally no disrespect to you but there are cycle lanes on both sides and the entire length of the Diswellstown Road for the safety of cyclists, however many cyclist chose to ignore these purposely provided cycle lanes and cyclist on the main road putting themselves and motorists in danger! you might reconsider cycling on the main road and use the provided cycle lines instead keeping both yourself and other safe from harm.

Off road shared ped/cycle tracks are a danger to peds (many peds exclusively walk in the cycle side) and an inconvenience to cyclists who have to stop every few 100m - imagine having to do that in a car! They are ideal for those going at a slow speed and those not comfortable on the road. I am neither.
BTW, how are motorists in danger from soft cyclists?

Anyway, I will continue my pointless reporting of dangerous driving to TrafficWatch (1890-205-805) and other calls for enforcement - we have tons of laws!

Random

We don't need ramps. Please not more ramps. They don't solve anything.

While I hate them one big visible speed camera would help sort out the issue. Alternatively sort out the bus locations.

Lightnessalways

daymobrew wrote: »

The survey was done in March 2008 and December 2008. (per Community Voice article).

It is now August 2009..closer to the two year mark when the March survey was done and the schools were on mid term when it was carried out....and as for the December survey...well....chances were..schools were off...then too, but that is besides the point and as you appear to live in the area you will no doubt have noticed that the volume of traffic has more then doubled and continues to grow on a daily basis since either of these surveys were carried out.

Off road shared ped/cycle tracks are a danger to peds (many peds exclusively walk in the cycle side) and an inconvenience to cyclists who have to stop every few 100m - imagine having to do that in a car! They are ideal for those going at a slow speed and those not comfortable on the road. I am neither.

Don't you have a bell on your bike??? or is that uncool? Your reasoning is a bit of a cop out! big difference between a car and a bicycle don't you think?? cycle lanes are there to protect you the cyclist from Motorists! and to protect the Motorist from irresponsible cyclists of which there are a great many of...no helmets..no lights on bikes..no high vis jackets etc... no hand signals..cycling...and using mobiles... cycling no hands.... and when a cyclist gets hit by a car...well it the motorists fault...

BTW, how are motorists in danger from soft cyclists? .......There in danger from soft cyclists for all of the above reasons! and then some!


Anyway, I will continue my pointless reporting of dangerous driving to TrafficWatch (1890-205-805) and other calls for enforcement - we have tons of laws!

All that said, please do continue to report the dangerous driving to the Gardai as I do on an almost daily basis because this is our community and we as a community need to pull together and not let another child die as a result of us all sitting back and doing nothing.

Take care and maybe you will reconsider using the cycle lanes as they were put there for your safety!;)

dirtynosebeps

Random wrote: »

Alternatively sort out the bus locations.

this only plays a very small part in what goes on ,it's not worth even bothering about. the buses going up that road actually slow the traffic down. by pulling in and out of stops. if there were no buses at all imagine what it would be like.from what i can gather speed was a major factor in this. if this is true bus or no bus the end would've still been the same.
please take it from one that uses the road constantly.
one day i was driving up that way. i got flashed to slow down not that i was speeding anyway but where was the speed check located, behind a bus in the lay-by thats where and i doubt if anyone was caught.

Lightnessalways

It is now August 2009..closer to the two year mark when the March survey was done and the schools were on mid term break when it was carried out....even at that look at the number of cars mentioned and that was not done over a week! and as for the December survey...well.....schools were off...then too, but that is besides the point and as you appear to live in the area you will no doubt have noticed that the volume of traffic has more then doubled and continues to grow on a daily basis since either of these surveys were carried out.


Don't you have a bell on your bike??? or is that uncool? Your reasoning is a bit of a cop out! big difference between a car and a bicycle don't you think?? cycle lanes are there to protect you the cyclist from Motorists! and to protect the Motorist from irresponsible cyclists of which there are a great many of...no helmets..no lights on bikes..no high vis jackets etc... no hand signals..cycling...and using mobiles... cycling no hands....no bell on their bikes and when a cyclist gets hit by a car...well it the motorists fault...

There in danger from soft cyclists for all of the above reasons! and then some!;)

All that said, please do continue to report the dangerous driving to the Gardai it is important. I do on an almost daily basis because this is our community and we as a community need to pull together and not let another child die as a result of us all sitting back and doing nothing! we all have to play our part! It's all fine and very well sitting here and posting on forums such as this..but that is not going to change anything! action is what is required and the gloves need to come off!:mad:

Stark

Lightnessalways wrote: »

Take care and maybe you will reconsider using the cycle lanes as they were put there for your safety!;)

Have you ever tried cycling on the cycle lanes in question or are you just talking out your arse? Shared ped/bicycle tracks are unsuitable for purpose and this has even been admitted in the recent Government document on cycling in Ireland along with a proposal to make their usage strictly optional for cyclists.

Lightnessalways wrote: »

Don't you have a bell on your bike??? or is that uncool? Your reasoning is a bit of a cop out! big difference between a car and a bicycle don't you think?? cycle lanes are there to protect you the cyclist from Motorists! and to protect the Motorist from irresponsible cyclists of which there are a great many of...no helmets..

I know "motorists" have this preoccupation with cyclists wearing helmets for some reason but to suggest that motorists are somehow "in danger" from lidless cyclists is ludricous

Lightnessalways wrote: »

no lights on bikes..

There are laws for this already. No need to ban all cyclists from the roads because of a few lawbreakers

Lightnessalways wrote: »

no high vis jackets etc...

Just because you happen to have spotted a few people cycling to work in builder's vests doesn't mean they're mandatory

Lightnessalways wrote: »

no hand signals..

Maybe taxi drivers should use the footpath too in that case

Lightnessalways wrote: »

cycling...

*Gasp*

Lightnessalways wrote: »

and using mobiles...

Should we send every driver using a mobile onto the footpath? Better that they mow down a pedestrian rather than get in your way right?

Lightnessalways wrote: »

cycling no hands....

A few teenagers messing around on some bikes they nicked from the local supermarket are hardly representative of the general cycling population.

Lightnessalways wrote: »

no bell on their bikes and when a cyclist gets hit by a car...well it the motorists fault...

Because the cyclist was supposed to ward off motorists with a bell?

Your little rant still doesn't explain why daymobrew should have to cycle on the footpath mowing down pedestrians rather than cycling on the road with all the other traffic.

If anything, the cyclists make the road safer for everyone as they're the one thing forcing drivers to actually slow down and be careful. The off-road cycle "facilities" are about facilitating rat race driving rather than road safety.

Lightnessalways

Stark wrote: »

Have you ever tried cycling on the cycle lanes in question or are you just talking out your arse? Shared ped/bicycle tracks are unsuitable for purpose and this has even been admitted in the recent Government document on cycling in Ireland along with a proposal to make their usage strictly optional for cyclists.

*As a matter of fact I have! and considering the speed that's reached on this road my point is..it is a safer option for the cyclist! not the motorist!*

I know "motorists" have this preoccupation with cyclists wearing helmets for some reason but to suggest that motorists are somehow "in danger" from lidless cyclists is ludricous

* I think you should re-read my post! why have you got such an issue with the wearing of helmet! again it is for the safety of the cyclist! NOT THE MOTORIST! Helmets save lives! FACT! It might just come as a surprise to you.. but there are also idiot motorists out there too!!*

There are laws for this already. No need to ban all cyclists from the roads because of a few lawbreakers

*Where did I mention or even suggest ban all cyclists from the roads!!!..*


Just because you happen to have spotted a few people cycling to work in builder's vests doesn't mean they're mandatory

*GASP!!!* Grow up! for christ sake! High vis JACKETS OR WHATEVER Form of high vis SHOULD BE MANDATORY!! do you want me to explain why!!! *



Maybe taxi drivers should use the footpath too in that case

* Just how childish are you!! that is a ridiculous statement to make*


Should we send every driver using a mobile onto the footpath? Better that they mow down a pedestrian rather than get in your way right?

* What...all cyclists are above the law!!! YOUR TALKING CRAP AGAIN!*

A few teenagers messing around on some bikes they nicked from the local supermarket are hardly representative of the general cycling population.

* Again..where have I made reference to teenagers nicking bikes????? I never said ALL CYCLISTS ARE A PROBLEM!!*



Because the cyclist was supposed to ward off motorists with a bell?

* EHHHH NO! Again... read my post! *

Your little rant still doesn't explain why daymobrew should have to cycle on the footpath mowing down pedestrians rather than cycling on the road with all the other traffic.

* You need to learn the difference as to what is a rant and what is an observation!! although, your's would constitute as a Rant!*

If anything, the cyclists make the road safer for everyone as they're the one thing forcing drivers to actually slow down and be careful. The off-road cycle "facilities" are about facilitating rat race driving rather than road safety.

* Maybe in some instance's this is the case , But Cyclists don't always make the road safer for everyone! not even themselves!


Least you forget the original reason for this thread, It was the fact that an 11 year old little girl called Caìt Quinn died needlessly on the Diswellstown Road on Tuesday. This issue was not all about Cyclists! it was about the dangers this road presents and the hope that no other child or adult have to lose their life on this road and one would hope that everyone else be they a Cyclist, Motorist or Pedestrian work toward keeps themselves safe and not but themselves or other road/footpath users in danger!

daymobrew

Lightnessalways wrote: »

It is now August 2009..closer to the two year mark when the March survey was done and the schools were on mid term break when it was carried out....even at that look at the number of cars mentioned and that was not done over a week! and as for the December survey...well.....schools were off...then too, but that is besides the point and as you appear to live in the area you will no doubt have noticed that the volume of traffic has more then doubled and continues to grow on a daily basis since either of these surveys were carried out.

The article doesn't list the dates nor the length of the survey so I don't know how you came to your conclusions. The numbers are per-day. I will ask the guy I got the data from for the survey dates.

Lightnessalways wrote: »

Don't you have a bell on your bike??? or is that uncool? Your reasoning is a bit of a cop out! big difference between a car and a bicycle don't you think?? cycle lanes are there to protect you the cyclist from Motorists! and to protect the Motorist from irresponsible cyclists of which there are a great many of...no helmets..no lights on bikes..no high vis jackets etc... no hand signals..cycling...and using mobiles... cycling no hands....no bell on their bikes and when a cyclist gets hit by a car...well it the motorists fault...

I have a bell, helmet (been wearing helmets since 1993), hi-viz gear (my backpack cover) and a mirror. I'm happy to be uncool and dorky.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on off-road cycle tracks.

FYI: A fellow cyclist records cyclist fatalities on his web site.

Lightnessalways wrote: »

All that said, please do continue to report the dangerous driving to the Gardai it is important. I do on an almost daily basis because this is our community and we as a community need to pull together and not let another child die as a result of us all sitting back and doing nothing! we all have to play our part! It's all fine and very well sitting here and posting on forums such as this..but that is not going to change anything! action is what is required and the gloves need to come off!:mad:

I list 129 TW reports on my site (and it is not up to date). The most depressing info is at the bottom - Gardai have only contacted me about 40% of the reports!

At this stage I do not know whether speeding was a factor in this incident, but I agree that we do need to tackle the speeding issue.

If someone has a video camera I would be happy to assist with recording speeding and providing the footage to the Gardai.

Stark

Lightnessalways wrote:

however many cyclist chose to ignore these purposely provided cycle lanes and cyclist on the main road
putting themselves and motorists in danger!

....

*As a matter of fact I have! and considering the speed that's reached on this road my point is..it is a safer option for the cyclist! not the motorist!*

What about the pedestrians using the footpath? It's not all about not putting the motorist in danger of slowing down.

Lightnessalways wrote:

* I think you should re-read my post! why have you got such an issue with the wearing of helmet!*

Your claim was that motorists should be protected from cyclists not wearing helmets by clearing them off the road. Helmets are not mandatory and any evidence that they reduce injuries when it comes to urban cycling are dubious at best. Mandatory helmet laws in Australia and New Zealand were a spectacular failure (from a cycling safety point of view, they were a success from your getting the cyclists off the road point of view).

Lightnessalways wrote:

Maybe taxi drivers should use the footpath too in that case

* Just how childish are you!! that is a ridiculous statement to make*

As ridiculous as saying cyclists should use the footpath because you happened to see a cyclist using a mobile once or twice?

Lightnessalways wrote:

* What...all cyclists are above the law!!! YOUR TALKING CRAP AGAIN!*

No. But motorists also use mobiles while driving and you're not calling for them to be removed from the road and forced to drive on the footpaths as opposed to dealing with the issue itself are you?

Lightnessalways wrote:

*GASP!!!* Grow up! for christ sake! High vis JACKETS OR WHATEVER Form of high vis SHOULD BE MANDATORY!! do you want me to explain why!!! *

To discourage more people from cycling?

Lightnessalways wrote:

* Again..where have I made reference to teenagers nicking bikes????? I never said ALL CYCLISTS ARE A PROBLEM!!*

You said that cyclists should be segregated from motorists to protect motorists from cyclists riding without hands.

Lightnessalways wrote:

and when a cyclist gets hit by a car...well it the motorists fault...

No-one is forcing the motorist to hit the cyclist. If the motorist drove at a reasonable speed, he/she would be able to react to cyclists and children on the road. It might take them a little longer to get to work but sacrifices have to be made when it comes to personal behaviour if we're serious about safety on the roads.

Lightnessalways wrote:

Least you forget the original reason for this thread, It was the fact that an 11 year old little girl called Caìt Quinn died needlessly on the Diswellstown Road on Tuesday. This issue was not all about Cyclists!

I haven't forgotten the original reason for the thread. Your little tangent has beautifully exposed the blatant hypocrisy that is at the heart of the attitudes of some drivers such as yourself. You're all about preaching road safety but at the end of the day, you don't want anyone or anything getting in your way and forcing you to break your stride and pay attention to the road. Studies show that the overall number of road accidents involving cyclists decreases not increases as greater numbers of cyclists take to the roads due to improved driver behaviour. Improved behaviour which also leads to fewer accidents like in the case of the little girl that you shed crocodile tears for.

Lightnessalways

Hi Daymobrew,

I really do appreciate your thread and I hope I haven't come off as a......well you know!. When you mentioned the months the Survey took place I remembered noting how convenient it was for them doing the survey and myself and my partners talked about how ridiculous it was doing this when the schools were on mid term, again!!.. But, Well you know how Fingal Co. Co. act. I may stand corrected but it is sticking in my mind and I would lay a bet that the number of cars have more doubled since it was carried out,what do you think?

I accept that we may have to agree to disagree about the cycle lanes but safety is what I'm trying to get at here and I'm not falling out with you over that! you obviously take your safety as paramount.. and I am not being patronising here, I just wish there were more like you, seriously, I wonder sometimes do people realise just how difficult it is to see a cyclist even pedrestrians on the road sometimes especially on the dark winter nights when they are wearing dark clothes. You have to keep yourself safe from Motorists who have no respect for you and your rights as a cyclist.

I have been tempted on more then one occassion to photograph the speeds being caught on the speed reader..I don't have a camcorder.. but a few of us have been discussing the same idea! so who knows! we do want to get a petition up and running in the next couple of weeks, its just a bit too soon after what has happened, maybe you might like to give a dig out? I don't know which estate you are in but maybe you might consider getting your neighbours to sign a petition looking for traffic calming to be introduced as a priority on the Diswellstown road.

If there were more of us in touch and quiet obviously feel the same way then maybe we really could acheive something here? As I always feel that Fingal Co. Co. like to give the impression that it is only ever one or two individuals making complaints about the road and from the amount of people I have spoken too over the last few days it would appear to me that that is not the case, so..... would you be in agreement that it would make more sense if we were all aware of each other and act as a large group of people and not just individuals. I would appreciate your thoughts on this. We are also considering a possible protest/vigil on the Diswellstown Road at a later stage so we really would need all the support we can get.

I am very interested in your reports and I am not in the least bit surprised at the amount of complaints you have lodged with regards to incidents in the local area, I have lost count of the amount of times I have called the Gardai so you are not on your own but please do keep it up and continue to keep a record it could come in extermely useful to prove our point.

In the meantime have a good one! and thanks for replying.

Stark

Well at least I responded to the points you made and didn't have to resort to name-calling and rolling of eyes.

I think the big question I have to ask is, which is more important to you? Protecting motorists from irresponsible cyclists or forcing motorists to reduce their speeds and drive attentively?

dirtynosebeps

folks we're getting away from the topic. at the end of the day a kid needlessly lost her life on a dangerous stretch of road. there were no cyclists involved. mind you they could show a bit of courtesy on another issue which i'm not going to debate.
the point is she was killed by someone who was supposedly speeding.
now we need a solution to this and we need it fast.
speed ramps definately.
speed check, no they're not worth a curse. every joe soap incl your neighbours i suspect warns other drivers of the check ahead.
a fixed speed camera maybe.
but the saddest thing of all will be our local elected representatives jumping on the band wagon here ,when in fact they had the powers ages ago to get this thing sorted.
sorry light just read your post after posting my own.

daymobrew

Lightnessalways wrote: »

I really do appreciate your thread and I hope I haven't come off as a......well you know!.

You are discussing the issues with me calmly so there is no problem.

Lightnessalways wrote: »

I would lay a bet that the number of cars have more doubled since it was carried out,what do you think?

I don't know the volumes. I wouldn't trust anecdotal counting, not even my own.

Lightnessalways wrote: »

I wonder sometimes do people realise just how difficult it is to see a cyclist even pedrestrians on the road sometimes especially on the dark winter nights when they are wearing dark clothes.

Yes dark clothes on dark nights are difficult to see - though some people have difficulty seeing brightly lit peds and cyclists in broad daylight - the driver has to look in order to see and many are zoned out or distracted.

Lightnessalways wrote: »

maybe you might consider getting your neighbours to sign a petition looking for traffic calming to be introduced as a priority on the Diswellstown road.

As I said early in the thread, I oppose ramps so I will not be offering to support such a petition.

Lightnessalways wrote: »

We are also considering a possible protest/vigil on the Diswellstown Road at a later stage so we really would need all the support we can get.

I am interested in hearing about any such plans.

Lightnessalways

Stark wrote: »

Well at least I responded to the points you made and didn't have to resort to name-calling and rolling of eyes.

I think the big question I have to ask is, which is more important to you? Protecting motorists from irresponsible cyclists or forcing motorists to reduce their speeds and drive attentively?

Do you know what Stark,

I am going to be the bigger person here and apologise for calling you a twit. It was uncalled for and out of line and I take it back, I really shouldn't have taken the bait, However you have taken a lot, in fact most of my Comments totally out of context and totally mis quoted me. It would appear that you seem to think I was wholly on the motorists side which is so not the case! If you read my original posts, I really didn't think that I would have to bang on about just how irresponsible a lot of motorists are..it goes without saying, you can see it on the roads every single day and I am sure we could sit here all night swapping horror stories.

Having said that you are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.

However this thread got totally off side and deviated away from the real issue here and this was not what my original post was about. My post was about the fact that little Càit Quinn aged 11 had been killed not far from my hall door and the total devastation the Quinn family are having to go through and the onging issues that we have with the Diswellstown Road being a factor in all this, part of that being driver/ped/cyclist behaviour.

I am not getting into a tit for tat with you over this. It is time to put this to bed and move on, it is not worth it! again I apologise for my words.

Lightnessalways

dirtynosebeps wrote: »

folks we're getting away from the topic. at the end of the day a kid needlessly lost her life on a dangerous stretch of road. there were no cyclists involved. mind you they could show a bit of courtesy on another issue which i'm not going to debate.
the point is she was killed by someone who was supposedly speeding.
now we need a solution to this and we need it fast.
speed ramps definately.
speed check, no they're not worth a curse. every joe soap inl your neighbours i suspect warns other drivers of the check ahead.
a fixed speed camera maybe.
but the saddest thing of all will be our local elected representatives jumping on the band wagon here ,when in fact they had the powers ages ago to get this thing sorted.
sorry light just read your post after posting my own.

I agree with you on all counts. Thanks.

BostonB

Terrible tragedy. Thats all I can say about that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The lack of enforcement of the speeding issue has been an issue for years. Ramps will destroy your cars suspension. I hate them. I dunno if speed check's don't work, or camera I never see any. Speeding is a daily occurance especially at peak times.

Likewise Bus parking has a problem for years. Especially at the terminus. 3 or 4 buses parking in a continuous line. People just bully their way into oncoming traffic. Dangerous driving thats allowed through lack of enforcement.

The cycle lanes are unsuitable for commuting cyclists. They are badly constructed with rippled tarmac which shakes you to bits, then you get poked in the eye by the low hanging branches which aren't cut back. They start and stop for no reason. All the pedistrians ignore that its a cycle lane. If you think they are suitable, then you can't possibly cycle on them. Fine for kids or moms with buggys. Thats all.

Theres no continuous cycle lane from D.15 into the Phonenix park, or into St Patricks school either. Useful Cycle lanes that don't go anywhere. It should be on the road and continuous all the way to the park, or O'connell bridge tbh.

jape

To be perfectly honest, unless someone has exact details of this accident, then you are all talking rubbish by recommending speed ramps, etc. How do you know the driver was speeding at all? How do you know he didn't run a red light? Or something else?

BostonB

My comments were unrelated to the accident.

The problems are obvious to anyone.

Dravokivich

Dam... was wondering why there were flowers around there alright.

Only been up at woodbrook a year, but to be honest that road all the way through is insane, alot of people drive too fast along it, not just "boy racers," who i don't seem to hear ripping it down as much now either.

- Drav!

daymobrew

Lightnessalways wrote: »

It is now August 2009..closer to the two year mark when the March survey was done and the schools were on mid term break when it was carried out....even at that look at the number of cars mentioned and that was not done over a week! and as for the December survey...well.....schools were off...then too, but that is besides the point and as you appear to live in the area you will no doubt have noticed that the volume of traffic has more then doubled and continues to grow on a daily basis since either of these surveys were carried out.

FCC Transportation got back to me on the dates:
The first survey was 27/March/08 to 2/April/08. It only covered 1 direction as it was using a trial traffic/speed recording that FCC were considering buying.
The second survey was 9/Dec/08 to 23/Dec/08. It covered both directions.

Looking at the St Patrick's NS Calendar for 2009/2010 and making some guesses for 2008, the school was likely open for much of the survey, especially the second one.

LeSageMignon

Here's the problem, plain and simple - many people (including mothers with children in the car and drivers of all ages) think that the road traffic laws are open to interpretation and alteration.

Whenever I try to drive at the speed limit on that road (or any in Ireland!) I have cars driving up my a** and over-taking at high speed (and occasionally menacing gestures from the driver behind).

When I slow down to turn into Fernleigh the car behind me simply can't wait til I've made the turn but overtakes at high speed as I turn.
Most drivers on that road don't even slow down for the roundabouts and God forbid they should even indicate correctly.

The problem in short is arogance and selfishness. No amount of alterations to roads will solve that. What might help is a stronger Garda presence on roads and hard-hitting fines or penalties, leading eventually to a change in attitudes.

Lightnessalways

Many thanks for that information, It's much appreciated and it will come in very useful.

daymobrew wrote: »

FCC Transportation got back to me on the dates:
The first survey was 27/March/08 to 2/April/08. It only covered 1 direction as it was using a trial traffic/speed recording that FCC were considering buying.
The second survey was 9/Dec/08 to 23/Dec/08. It covered both directions.

Looking at the St Patrick's NS Calendar for 2009/2010 and making some guesses for 2008, the school was likely open for much of the survey, especially the second one.

Lightnessalways

Hi,

There are a lot of issues with regards to the Diswellstown Road speeding just being one of them and you have quite rightly described a few of issues, many of course as you have rightly pointed out occur all across this country's roads and I can relate to all your points, I have experienced bullying and threatening behaviour from other motorists on this road on a number of occassions because I refuse to exceed the speed limit on one occassion I was forced off the road not far from where last weeks tragic events happened by a speeding bullying motorist who preceded to overtake me into on coming traffic on a bend.....

I know that there was an accident up at Fernleigh at the entrance into the estate toward the end of July and thank god no-one was killed there either, the lady had a very lucky escape from what I have been told.

I wholly agree that enforcement is the better option, but can anyone really see that happening any time soon. So we find ourselves having to look at other options. I don't know if anyone was driving/walking on the Diswellstown Road there today at the school pick up & drop off times?, I was there and it beggared belief at the conduct of some of the parents picking up their children coupled with the behaviour of other motorists! including bus drivers, I appreciate that today 2/9/2009 weather wise is a nasty one but that does not excuse bad driver behaviour. How there has not been a head on collision when all this is going on I really do not know.

The one thing that I am sure of is that we need to do something and something soon.

LeSageMignon wrote: »

Here's the problem, plain and simple - many people (including mothers with children in the car and drivers of all ages) think that the road traffic laws are open to interpretation and alteration.

Whenever I try to drive at the speed limit on that road (or any in Ireland!) I have cars driving up my a** and over-taking at high speed (and occasionally menacing gestures from the driver behind).

When I slow down to turn into Fernleigh the car behind me simply can't wait til I've made the turn but overtakes at high speed as I turn.
Most drivers on that road don't even slow down for the roundabouts and God forbid they should even indicate correctly.

The problem in short is arogance and selfishness. No amount of alterations to roads will solve that. What might help is a stronger Garda presence on roads and hard-hitting fines or penalties, leading eventually to a change in attitudes.

BostonB

I think the worse time on the road is between about 5 and 9 pm in the evenings. Theres of lunatics of all types flying up and down the road. Far worse than school time IMO.

Fast food delivery guys are bad aswell.

Pineapple stu

Firstly i sympathise with the family of the child that died.

Instead of blaming the council and the road users for the childs death , firstly realise that the child ran into the path of an oncoming car and unless that car was just crawling along then the driver had no chance to avoid the accident seeing that she ran from behind a parked bus.
This happens all the time in Dublin, a child dies and its always someone elses fault when the fault may lie closer to home.

Lightnessalways

cymro wrote: »

Firstly i sympathise with the family of the child that died.

Instead of blaming the council and the road users for the childs death , firstly realise that the child ran into the path of an oncoming car and unless that car was just crawling along then the driver had no chance to avoid the accident seeing that she ran from behind a parked bus.
This happens all the time in Dublin, a child dies and its always someone elses fault when the fault may lie closer to home.

Hi,

Appreciate your point and I am aware of the circumstances and that Càit ran after her dog. I also know that there are conflicting stories..as to the driver of that car, that is now in the hands of the Gardai and not for me to comment any further on. But the fact is, this tragedy happened and the Council have been made aware so many times over the last number of years by residents constantly complaining about conditions on this road. I am not sure if you are familar with the area, but there are quite a number of issues with the Diswellstown Road of which the Council, D.O.T, local Councillors and the Gardai are more then aware of, they all know that there are serious issues on this road and these issues need to be addressed. There have been a number of serious accidents on this road over the last few years and there are far to many horror stories to even start with, And yes the Council, the D.O.T. and others have to take responsibility for the dangers this road presents. They are allowing it to continue despite evidence to show otherwise and they are quite happy to say that is not the case and they now can not do anything about this due to lack of funding. Something has to be done and motorists using this road HAVE to slow down.

BostonB

Unrelated to this accident. There are serious issues with speeding and bus parking on this road since it was opened.

Gaspode

Was this accident on Diswellstown Road or Carpenterstown Road?

BostonB

Diswell. Though the other road is bad too.

Pineapple stu

Lightnessalways wrote: »

Hi,

Appreciate your point and I am aware of the circumstances and that Càit ran after her dog. I also know that there are conflicting stories..as to the driver of that car, that is now in the hands of the Gardai and not for me to comment any further on. But the fact is, this tragedy happened and the Council have been made aware so many times over the last number of years by residents constantly complaining about conditions on this road. I am not sure if you are familar with the area, but there are quite a number of issues with the Diswellstown Road of which the Council, D.O.T, local Councillors and the Gardai are more then aware of, they all know that there are serious issues on this road and these issues need to be addressed. There have been a number of serious accidents on this road over the last few years and there are far to many horror stories to even start with, And yes the Council, the D.O.T. and others have to take responsibility for the dangers this road presents. They are allowing it to continue despite evidence to show otherwise and they are quite happy to say that is not the case and they now can not do anything about this due to lack of funding. Something has to be done and motorists using this road HAVE to slow down.

With all due respects, you can put all the safety measures on the road as you like it still wont stop a child running out into the road.
Ive driven along that road plenty of times and its no diffrent to any other busy road in a built up area and i see nothing wrong with it.
Neither the council nor the D.O.T are responsible for the tragedy that happened or are responsible for other peoples errors.
How many time have we watched the news or read the papers and saw that someone died of a road accident and the relatives blaming the road being dangerous instead of blaming the driving actions that led to the accident or the actions of the individual?. Its always a case of lets blame someone else.
There is not a single road in this country that is dangerous, its the way that some people drive along them that makes them dangerous to themselves and others but the road itself is ok. Every accident is down to human error and not down to the road itself.

Stark

A car doing between 30 and 50 km/hr is much less likely to kill a child that runs out than a car doing 60 to 80km/hr. Any sensible traffic system will have speed limited to 30km/hr outside schools as the likelihood of having a child running out is high.

BostonB

cymro wrote: »

With all due respects, you can put all the safety measures on the road as you like it still wont stop a child running out into the road.

The accident that happened may not have been caused in this instance because of the existing problems, it may even have been unavoidable. However that doesn't mean there are not issues with this road.

cymro wrote: »

Ive driven along that road plenty of times and its no diffrent to any other busy road in a built up area and i see nothing wrong with it.

Your dead wrong. They've turned it into a rat run by building a bridge to allow access into a housing estate so that it can be used as a major route from all the over developed estates beyond, towards the city center. They also blocked the main Clonsilla road making it one way, feeding massive amounts of traffic though the estate. They also keep building long straight roads through housing estates, with no physical speed restrictions, and when theres no enforcement, and knowing human nature its always going to promote speeding. Even on race tracks they physically redesign tracks to keep speeds down.

cymro wrote: »

Neither the council nor the D.O.T are responsible for the tragedy that happened or are responsible for other peoples errors.
How many time have we watched the news or read the papers and saw that someone died of a road accident and the relatives blaming the road being dangerous instead of blaming the driving actions that led to the accident or the actions of the individual?. Its always a case of lets blame someone else.

There is not a single road in this country that is dangerous, its the way that some people drive along them that makes them dangerous to themselves and others but the road itself is ok. Every accident is down to human error and not down to the road itself.

Can't agree at all. There are lots of known black spots on roads. We used to have many more it was a familar sign around the country. But a lot have been eliminated by improved roads. But yet there are still lots of poorly designed junctions, bad lane markings, bad drainage prone to ice, aquaplaning, the list is endless. If you don't allow for human nature then its a bad design. Who do you expect to be using these roads? Robots? People are human, the road should be designed accordingly.

Someone designed these bad roads, but them in place. Decided to have 2 lanes change to 3 then back to 2 on a roundabout, or made a junction, lanes so complicated that people get confused and weave last minute. Its like putting the sign for a turn at the turn instead of 1000m before it. Or build a bus stop at a blind bend, or grows plants on a roundabout so its completely blind. Someone is responsible for that.

Lightnessalways

BostonB wrote: »

The accident that happened may not have been caused in this instance because of the existing problems, it may even have been unavoidable. However that doesn't mean there are not issues with this road.



Your dead wrong. They've turned it into a rat run by building a bridge to allow access into a housing estate so that it can be used as a major route from all the over developed estates beyond, towards the city center. They also blocked the main Clonsilla road making it one way, feeding massive amounts of traffic though the estate. They also keep building long straight roads through housing estates, with no physical speed restrictions, and when theres no enforcement, and knowing human nature its always going to promote speeding. Even on race tracks they physically redesign tracks to keep speeds down.



Can't agree at all. There are lots of known black spots on roads. We used to have many more it was a familar sign around the country. But a lot have been eliminated by improved roads. But yet there are still lots of poorly designed junctions, bad lane markings, bad drainage prone to ice, aquaplaning, the list is endless. If you don't allow for human nature then its a bad design. Who do you expect to be using these roads? Robots? People are human, the road should be designed accordingly.

Someone designed these bad roads, but them in place. Decided to have 2 lanes change to 3 then back to 2 on a roundabout, or made a junction, lanes so complicated that people get confused and weave last minute. Its like putting the sign for a turn at the turn instead of 1000m before it. Or build a bus stop at a blind bend, or grows plants on a roundabout so its completely blind. Someone is responsible for that.

Thank you BostonB,

I could not have but it better myself.

Pineapple stu

BostonB wrote: »

The accident that happened may not have been caused in this instance because of the existing problems, it may even have been unavoidable. However that doesn't mean there are not issues with this road.



Your dead wrong. They've turned it into a rat run by building a bridge to allow access into a housing estate so that it can be used as a major route from all the over developed estates beyond, towards the city center. They also blocked the main Clonsilla road making it one way, feeding massive amounts of traffic though the estate. They also keep building long straight roads through housing estates, with no physical speed restrictions, and when theres no enforcement, and knowing human nature its always going to promote speeding. Even on race tracks they physically redesign tracks to keep speeds down.



Can't agree at all. There are lots of known black spots on roads. We used to have many more it was a familar sign around the country. But a lot have been eliminated by improved roads. But yet there are still lots of poorly designed junctions, bad lane markings, bad drainage prone to ice, aquaplaning, the list is endless. If you don't allow for human nature then its a bad design. Who do you expect to be using these roads? Robots? People are human, the road should be designed accordingly.

Someone designed these bad roads, but them in place. Decided to have 2 lanes change to 3 then back to 2 on a roundabout, or made a junction, lanes so complicated that people get confused and weave last minute. Its like putting the sign for a turn at the turn instead of 1000m before it. Or build a bus stop at a blind bend, or grows plants on a roundabout so its completely blind. Someone is responsible for that.

The estates are fenced/walled off with pedestrian entries onto the footpath and turn in's for cars . Dont make out that the cars are flying by inches from peoples front doors and kids playing outside their front gardens and that they built the road after the houses was built.
If they closed off one end then you would be arguing that you have to drive round and maybe get caught at the level crossing.
That bridge was built at the same time as the houses so people moving into them houses knew the layout before hand.
Black spots only made when there are to many careless drivers not paying enough attention in that area. If you drive normally then any so called black spot wont bother you.
To sum it up, every road is dangerous if you decide to run into the middle of it from behind parked cars etc. If you want to retrive something that has gone onto a busy road then you follow the old green cross code which parents should be constantly telling their kids about.
One poster said on here that the council have now got blood on their hands,what a typical blame someone else comment. The council didnt make that child run into a busy road from behind a parked bus. The car driver that hit the girl wouldnt have a chance. Its sickning that a group of people are using this to have a go at the council and blame them for the death just to get what they want in the area. The council seems to be in a no win situation.

BostonB

cymro wrote: »

The estates are fenced/walled off with pedestrian entries onto the footpath and turn in's for cars . Dont make out that the cars are flying by inches from peoples front doors and kids playing outside their front gardens and that they built the road after the houses was built.

Actually the road was a lot quieter at the start. Regardless you don't expect people to be doing 80, 100 kmph in an estate. You get alsorts tearing up that road. One evening there was a Ferrari doing speed runs up and down. If you paid attention you'd have noticed theres a cycle path, for kids, two schools and a park on that road. Most of the roads are open to that road at their end. So theres a lot of kids and parents using that road, footpath and cycle path. I get the impression you're not that familar with the road at all.

cymro wrote: »

If they closed off one end then you would be arguing that you have to drive round and maybe get caught at the level crossing.
That bridge was built at the same time as the houses so people moving into them houses knew the layout before hand.

Ahem actually they built the bridge afterwards. Traffic increased vastly once it opened it. I don't think anyone could have anticipated the vast estates they'd build beyond Clonsilla when there wasn't the road capacity to take the traffic. Or that they'd make the main Clonsilla road one way in the middle, bring yet more traffic over the bridge. I take it you don't know the area well at all. They intended running the road from porterstown into it aswell, so expect all the traffic on that, which is rat run to lucan to run into the estates too.

Initially the level crossing was a big problem. (for those rat running - not me) But in fact all the bridge has done is move the problem to the next junction. The problem is there isn't the road capacity for all the development in the area. At the weekend the poor layout, one way and the traffic to Blanch center means its all a car park anyway. The level crossing is only a minor part of that. Which is what the residents said from the start.

cymro wrote: »

Black spots only made when there are to many careless drivers not paying enough attention in that area. If you drive normally then any so called black spot wont bother you.

Er no its unexpected and usually catches people out driving normally. Thats why they put a sign there, and eventually change the road. If you found how to handle black ice and aqua planning,though driving technique alone. patent it. it would be worth millions.

cymro wrote: »

... Its sickning that a group of people are using this to have a go at the council and blame them for the death just to get what they want in the area. The council seems to be in a no win situation.

Er no people have been complaining about this road and a couple of others for years. Nothing new about it at all. Only ye come lately think it is.

No ones with responsibility got off their butt to do anything about it. Other than the useless speed sign. Part of the problem was many of the roads weren't handed over by the developer to the council. AFAIK the developer built the ramps on the other road, not the council. I suspect some roads are still not handed over. I think the bridge was only built as a condition of planning permission so the developer could build more in the area. I could be wrong on the latter.

Pineapple stu

Lets put like this. Ive been living in the area far longer than them houses have been there. I remember that chap that had the horse on the scrap of land which is now coolmine station car park and the shed he kept it in across the road which are now apartments. I watched them houses/apartments being built.

That bridge was in the planning for years .

If you are decent driver then you should be able to handle black ice, surface water etc, you drive to the conditions of the road and not use the speed limit as a target that must be reached. Same goes for driving in built up areas where you always have an eye out just in case kids run onto the road.
In this incident the fault was with the child and not the road or any driver.
Its plain obvious that the road was quieter at the start because not all the houses where built or had been occupied.

If the council put in every traffic calming measures they could like ramps speed cameras etc then you will have those complaining about them and that they are bad for their cars and restrict their movements.
Has any of the residents come up with a sutible solution?
One thing i agree with is the way the local councillors are now jumping on the band wagon.

BostonB

cymro wrote: »

Lets put like this. Ive been living in the area far longer than them houses have been there. I remember that chap that had the horse on the scrap of land which is now coolmine station car park and the shed he kept it in across the road which are now apartments. I watched them houses/apartments being built.

That bridge was in the planning for years .....

Malones coal merchants was there before the apartments across form the car park. Don't remember a horse. Lots of things get planned and not built. Odd you don't remember the bridge came after the houses. Problems with the diswellstown road have been in the local papers for years and all the local councillors have been on that band wagon for years.

http://roderic.wordpress.com/2009/03/09/buses-parked-on-diswellstown-road-are-an-accident-waiting-to-happen/

http://www.riverwoodres.com/news/27/17/Diswellstown-Road-traffic-volumes.html

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/minutes/meeting_doc.aspx?id=32954

http://www.communityvoice.ie/pages/CV130/CV130n10.htm

So this is old news. Maybe its new to you.