Paranormal and Money

Riamfada

Inspired by a slight debate between myself and iamhunted. I was wondering how everyone views making money from TV shows like most haunted ect. There seems to be this percetption that branching into entertainment and paying for or accepting payment for invesitgations is wrong while almost every paranormal group in the country has made at least one TV appearance. NIPRA, UP, Leinster, PRAOI, PIGS have all been on TV and many more in print.

Do people have a problem with that?

bigeasyeah

I think it gets corrupted once money becomes involved.I dont trust anyone whose motivation is to get on TV or get themselves over.I think the emphasis should be on research,investigation and sources of evidence.
In my opinion this type of investigation should adhere to precedence set by historical and scientific studies.

DANNY22XX

Leinster have never recieved payment or charged for an investigation ,TV ,or radio we didnt recieve any payment we dont do the whole open investigations ,but if people wanna charge for an open event,i dont see a problem with that but if they were to charge a person who is having Paranormal probs in their own home im totaly against that .

At the end of the day if peeps want to pay for a location and investigate that is up to them.I just hate seeing new places come up for research saying its haunted and never any reports and trying to cash into the paranormal field.because it looks spooky

iamhunted

what danny said.

Ziycon

I don't think charging for people to go to a haunted place is wrong as they pay because they want to experience a haunted place but with that said I don't agree with charging people that are experiencing things happening in their homes or places of work.

6th

Charging someone for helping them (as Danny says going to their home) is the lowest of the low. I've been to a few homes and yes I've gotten a few quic stuck in my pocket and told to go have a pint - its uncomfortable but its the same for the person who you've gone to see. They feel you've given your time and want to do something.

Going out to someone's home with a rate card or expecting money is not something I could do.

As for Tv etc, well I see now problem with getting paid tho I dont think any group has for stuff like that? I wouldnt say no to it and I'd like to think that those that know me know that I'd do it money or not.

I eat, sleep, breath and sometimes poo the paranormal. Its a huge part of my life, has been for years. If i could make a living out of it I would be happy but like Grimes has said elsewhere there really isnt mney to be made in open investigations etc

When we've charged for investigatoins it been to cover location costs etc and the odd time its meant we've stayed in a place for free. We never tell people they will have a paranrmal experience, we give them the opportunity to go to plces with reported activity and let them decide for themselves. We do make sure they have a good time though and when you take into account that we usually give ppl lifts etc its costing us - but we dont care.

lots of people know that the PIGs lost thousands on the convention last year .... but guess what? ... we're doing it again!

think

Ziycon, 6th - I agree.

I come from a different field - the arts - a field where there is never enough money to develop the projects that people are most passionate about.

Most of the time, people involved in specialized fields of work or study are there because of a deep-rooted passion to that field - money or no money, they'd be there.

But the fact is, to develop anything, money is needed. Most of the time, a decent budget is a necessity in order to expand and intensify study into anything that needs more understanding. Studying and further developing the understanding of the paranormal is no different.

It's not about corrupting it or cheapening it - it's about enabling it to exist and grow.

bigeasyeah - where would any scientific study be without proper funding?

iamhunted

i think no matter what, people have to have their own choices in both putting on paid for investigations and to pay to attend them. it think the crux isnt in the money, per se - its in the intention by the organisers.

If the intention is good - ie, like many of the PiG investigations on here, then I applaud that. Its educating people in the paranormal, in investigating and at times helping out places that need renovation etc. Theres no harm in that.

if on the other hand its something the owner has been touting as paranormal, and hey! come in here and you might see a ghosty! .... then, thats a different story. And theres just no room in my head at all for anyone who charges a homeowner to investigate or 'cleanse' their home.

Though many of us are looking, we all know its just not possible at present to prove a haunting so those who charge homes, or owners looking to cash in on the paranormal dont have a product/service to charge for.

Riamfada

iamhunted wrote: »

Though many of us are looking, we all know its just not possible at present to prove a haunting so those who charge homes, or owners looking to cash in on the paranormal dont have a product/service to charge for.

While I totally agree there are some spots in the country that are renowned for being "haunted" and the owners promote them as "haunted" and groups are climbing over themselves to get access at a very high cost. Even though these places which have alot of associated paranormal activity have given less than exciting resultsm specifically not on par with the owners experiences.

There are in my opinion only two places I have ever been to that do this. I have been on a hell of alot of investigations and owners are more inclined to keep it very quiet than promote it. For example Ross has grown in popularity over the past 10 years by word of mouth between investigators rather than anything else.

iamhunted

thats just precisely what I think is starting to change though. Its getting more common for places to be 'reportedly' haunted.

Where as before these things wouldnt be talked about, now we're finding places popping out of the woodwork that are now apparently haunted (like whats the story with Wickload Gaol and 'Whats Their Story'?. )

I wonder if this is because they are haunted or because people want to make money?

6th

In fairness Wicklow Goal has been reporting activity for years now both by word of mouth and in the media. Its one of my favourite places to do and I've had a number of experiences there.

6th

think wrote: »

Ziycon, 6th - I agree.

I come from a different field - the arts - a field where there is never enough money to develop the projects that people are most passionate about.

Most of the time, people involved in specialized fields of work or study are there because of a deep-rooted passion to that field - money or no money, they'd be there.

But the fact is, to develop anything, money is needed. Most of the time, a decent budget is a necessity in order to expand and intensify study into anything that needs more understanding. Studying and further developing the understanding of the paranormal is no different.

It's not about corrupting it or cheapening it - it's about enabling it to exist and grow.

bigeasyeah - where would any scientific study be without proper funding?

So what do you think is reasonable to pay for?

Riamfada

Yeah but Wicklow is actually haunted and has been reportedly haunted for years. The first time I was there was when I was 14 and I was told the same ghost stories I hear today.

However If I owned a castle and people were willing to pay me 500 euro to spend to night running around it with equipment that they believe picks up ghosts. Id be booking my holiday to Thailand very soon. Its the nature of the game. What pisses me off is when they take your 500 quid and treat you like complete mugs on the night.

6th

Grimes wrote: »

For example Ross has grown in popularity over the past 10 years by word of mouth between investigators rather than anything else.

Leap is the same, Sean refuses to advertise. Mind you its not a place we've had any success in.

Jessibelle

I think there can be a marked difference between charging money to cover expenses and charging money to run a profit. Unfortunately given the nature of the investigations, it is a situation which is liable to abuse by charlatans and investigations run as a private industry is the type of thing which could easily be abused to huge profits. The person who sees an opportunity to make a quick few quid by going into a room and coming out saying that someone’s Aunt Mary’s coming through from the other side as opposed to the terrific, professional paranormal teams out there that are innovative, scientific and thorough. The renting of a ‘haunted site’ is equally as liable to abuse, ok if it’s just touted as a tourist attraction but to charge hand over fist to potential serious investigators to examine an issue you’re having is wrong I feel, again it should be costs and if they want to give any extra, then it’s up to them.

TechFreak

Jessibelle wrote: »

I think there can be a marked difference between charging money to cover expenses and charging money to run a profit. Unfortunately given the nature of the investigations, it is a situation which is liable to abuse by charlatans and investigations run as a private industry is the type of thing which could easily be abused to huge profits. The person who sees an opportunity to make a quick few quid by going into a room and coming out saying that someone’s Aunt Mary’s coming through from the other side as opposed to the terrific, professional paranormal teams out there that are innovative, scientific and thorough. The renting of a ‘haunted site’ is equally as liable to abuse, ok if it’s just touted as a tourist attraction but to charge hand over fist to potential serious investigators to examine an issue you’re having is wrong I feel, again it should be costs and if they want to give any extra, then it’s up to them.

Excellent Post.

If you are paying money into a site to experience a paranormal event doesnt that automatically influence your sub-conscious to experience something to justify the money you spent.

However if you are consuming food or the owner or sleeping their if is only appropriate the you compensate the owner.

As for an investigator taking money , no scientist would take money off someone who owns the object they are experimenting on or examining as this could influence your findings.

think

6th wrote: »

So what do you think is reasonable to pay for?

I think it is reasonable to pay for anything where the money flow supports the development of the field and supports further research - either to cover people's time and/or to cover equipment, transportation, etc.

There seem to be a lot of people doing good work in this area on this forum. I don't know for sure but I'd wager that any of these guys investigating sites are not making money out of it. In fact, I bet it usually costs them money. Why should it?

What if some of them were able to do it full time with as much state-of-the art gear as they need? I don't think finances should be raised by charging to 'cleanse' a house per se (complete with 'who you gonna call' ads on tv..) But if money can be raised elsewhere, say - charging willing participants to come along, or through TV shows or other programs.. why not?

For those that consider this a scientific area of research, how have other scientific studies secured the funds they need to survive and grow?

Branson sells tickets to space tourist at 200k a pop in order to BE ABLE to one day send them up there in the first place.. What's wrong with that?

iamhunted

it cost leinster paranormal money because we see investigating as a learning experience for us rather than some form of payable service.

Obviously it means though that you just dont investigate willy nilly.

Riamfada

iamhunted wrote: »

thats just precisely what I think is starting to change though. Its getting more common for places to be 'reportedly' haunted.

Where as before these things wouldnt be talked about, now we're finding places popping out of the woodwork that are now apparently haunted (like whats the story with Wickload Gaol and 'Whats Their Story'?. )

I wonder if this is because they are haunted or because people want to make money?

That dosnt make the places that were around before the "Ghost Boom" anymore haunted. They just cashed in on it first

iamhunted

i agree there too.

seriously though, why do wicklow gaol have the whole 'whats their story' thing? Doesnt the mere fact of having a payable 'paranormal investigation' thing going make it that much harder to seperate what might be going on and tourist tales?

TechFreak

think wrote: »

I think it is reasonable to pay for anything where the money flow supports the development of the field and supports further research - either to cover people's time and/or to cover equipment, transportation, etc.

There seem to be a lot of people doing good work in this area on this forum. I don't know for sure but I'd wager that any of these guys investigating sites are not making money out of it. In fact, I bet it usually costs them money. Why should it?

What if some of them were able to do it full time with as much state-of-the art gear as they need? I don't think finances should be raised by charging to 'cleanse' a house per se (complete with 'who you gonna call' ads on tv..) But if money can be raised elsewhere, say - charging willing participants to come along, or through TV shows or other programs.. why not?

For those that consider this a scientific area of research, how have other scientific studies secured the funds they need to survive and grow?

Branson sells tickets to space tourist at 200k a pop in order to BE ABLE to one day send them up there in the first place.. What's wrong with that?

Yea but included in Bransons cost are the years of R & D and the physical experience of going into space.

Paying into a haunted house is one thing ( ive done the cringe worthy generic tours in the past).But investigating a site for paranormal phenomena. The people who do this are carrying it out because they have a passion or interest in the field. Those people dont do it for profit, they do it because of that passion and that interest.

I of course understand its the real world and things cost money.As I said previously there are some costs that a unavoidable like food , electricity , maybe even rental for a night.

But you cant pass on a charge that "is reasonable to pay for anything where the money flow supports the development of the field" as that is way too vague and theres no way to determine if someone is simplying profitearing.What you may perceive as supporting the field another person might see as a waste of money.

Other events can be organised to raise such money to fund the field or events like the PIGS table quiz for example.

All costs should be transparent in relation to investigations.

6th

iamhunted wrote: »

i agree there too.

seriously though, why do wicklow gaol have the whole 'whats their story' thing? Doesnt the mere fact of having a payable 'paranormal investigation' thing going make it that much harder to seperate what might be going on and tourist tales?

Because joe public has an interest in the Paranormal and spooky things and want to do stuff like that. I'm fine with that. If people can only get involved by doing serious research then I think that sucks.

I'm a big fan of what I call Paranormal Pop Culture.

Its like telling people the only way to enjoy football is by playing it and playing it well. Thats simply not true and not fair.

iamhunted

i really dont think the analogies fit there now to be honest. And I cant thin k of one off the top of my head right now that does, but paranormal research is based in finding facts, and ghost story telling is based in fiction - the purpose of one is to find out reason, the purpose of the other is to scare and give people a ghosty, creepy experience - two completely different things there 6th.

iamhunted

PLus, while Im on the subject, just because joe public has a fleeting interest in getting the willies put up him/her (pardon the imagery) doesnt mean they have an interest in paranormal research. Pop culture killed music - just dont forget that.

6th wrote: »

Because joe public has an interest in the Paranormal and spooky things and want to do stuff like that. I'm fine with that. If people can only get involved by doing serious research then I think that sucks.

I'm a big fan of what I call Paranormal Pop Culture.

Its like telling people the only way to enjoy football is by playing it and playing it well. Thats simply not true and not fair.

Riamfada

iamhunted wrote: »

Pop culture killed music - just dont forget that.

Thats very much a matter if opinion.

Riamfada

iamhunted wrote: »

but paranormal research is based in finding facts, and ghost story telling is based in

Have any paranormal researchers ever found a fact about the paranormal?

MrMojoRisin

Grimes wrote: »

Have any paranormal researchers ever found a fact about the paranormal?

Some have, but no matter how many facts they have to show for themselves, the diehard sceptics refute it regardless. They find fault with the empiricism of it, or whatever. That's a debate for elsewhere though..

I think paranormal investigation should be left open to your everyday person but, to determine beforehand whether or not the would-be participants are in any way serious about it all, they should have to complete a short quiz on the area. Basic enough questions like, nothing too 'out there'. The pass rate on the quiz for successful entry to investigations should be maybe 80%. That would be one way of weeding out possible clowns and I don't see how that would be difficult to orchestrate.

Riamfada

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

I think paranormal investigation should be left open to your everyday person but, to determine beforehand whether or not the would-be participants are in any way serious about it all, they should have to complete a short quiz on the area. Basic enough questions like, nothing too 'out there'. The pass rate on the quiz for successful entry to investigations should be maybe 80%. That would be one way of weeding out possible clowns and I don't see how that would be difficult to orchestrate.

Wow ok. Well what makes the quizmaster so qualified to mark them? While I agree with the principle of weeding out messers unless paranormal studies are being ran by scientific organisations such as universities I find it very hypocritical to say that people who run investigations are anymore qualified than someone who has watched a few episodes of Most Haunted

MrMojoRisin

Grimes wrote: »

Wow ok. Well what makes the quizmaster so qualified to mark them? While I agree with the principle of weeding out messers

I didnt put it like that at all and I didnt mean it like that either, so you've taken me out of context. I dont know what your 'wow' is all about - do you have any brighter ideas yourself?

unless paranormal studies are being ran by scientific organisations such as universities

Would any universities here undertake it? UCC might (their Folklore and Ethnology department are into all this craic), but they'd have some job securing funding from the usual avenues. It could only be a short-term run of research (a few months tops) for those reasons.

I find it very hypocritical to say that people who run investigations are anymore qualified than someone who has watched a few episodes of Most Haunted

Nobody is saying that any one person is more 'qualified' than the other - only more knowledgeable at best. People who have conducted investigations would have more on-the-ground experience, whereas a Most Haunted viewer only has on-the-sofa experience. I don't see anything wrong with practical experience - it's a perfectly valid way to learn about anything. All the proposed quiz would do is gauge the level of genuine interest the people have - not to assess whether or not they're human metaphysics encyclopaedias.

Riamfada

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

I didnt put it like that at all and I didnt mean it like that either, so you've taken me out of context. I dont know what your 'wow' is all about - do you have any brighter ideas yourself?

Sorry I come across as a bit of a twat on boards sometimes. No offence intended. I apologise if I took you out of context. I dont see the need to keep wasters out of the paranormal as in my experience it isnt that much of a problem.

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

Would any universities here undertake it? UCC might (their Folklore and Ethnology department are into all this craic), but they'd have some job securing funding from the usual avenues. It could only be a short-term run of research (a few months tops) for those reasons.

No for a real scientific investigation into the paranormal you would need scientific measuring equipment staffed by people with the skills to design such equipment. I doubt any academic would take this seriously. I have often had the piss taken out of me by fellow academics for having an interest in this area.

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

Nobody is saying that any one person is more 'qualified' than the other - only more knowledgeable at best. People who have conducted investigations would have more on-the-ground experience, whereas a Most Haunted viewer only has on-the-sofa experience. I don't see anything wrong with practical experience - it's a perfectly valid way to learn about anything. All the proposed quiz would do is gauge the level of genuine interest the people have - not to assess whether or not they're human metaphysics encyclopaedias.

I honestly think people would see it as a form of elitism by people possibly less qualified then themselves to supervise it. Thats all im saying. The paranormal is and should stay both a pseduoscience and an area for fun and spiritual gain.

Again I apologise If I came across as abrasive. Ill try to be less of at knob of boards

kshiel

I dont see a problem paying a few quid to cover costs when going on an investigation. I have been on a fair few investigations with groups on here and I know that none have profited from them.

I have been interested in the paranormal for a very very long time and I am not very knowledgeable in the science field but it has educated me on a lot from just attending. These investigations should not be just limited or left just to those who investigate for science alone as everyone has the right to look into this area for themsleves, while logic and reason should be used at all times. I have been on investigations where I got the whole fear factor and I have been on investigations that have bored the hell out of me but I have and would still return to these places.

People who do investigations generally have a passion as anyone who has been on one can tell you that it ain't glamourous. There will always be the few who go into it for the money and hopefully they will be weeded out through their own greed. But for those who's intent is for research or their own spiritual journey will stay the long hall regardless. for those doing the research simply for truth and fact finding I would love to see funding going to them and if their journey of this reserach comes to the point where they can get the funding for it good for them.

Word of mouth travels in this field it seems faster than lighting and as long as it keeps that up less people will be stung by places who advertise for profit alone. Groups may dis-agree at times but doesn't that make it all the more interesting and opens up ideas and areas to look into.