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Vinters Assocation moaning.

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    #62
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Hasn't been my experience in London, plenty of choice available, very good selection of beers, something our pubs lack.

    Actually, I'll give the Irish pubs one thing..... the selection of beers are far and away better then over in the UK. Something I will never understand. I was in a small bar beside Jurys Inn in Leeds recently. They only has 1 beer on tap (grolsch). I've never seen it over here and TBH it wouldn't be a beer of choice for me.


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    #63
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    meglome wrote: »
    It's amazing the number of people I know who are bringing booze out to the pub with them. I haven't seen the likes of that since we were students and even then it was less. For anyone who drink spirits you're talking a good €7 for say a vodka with mixer in Dublin city centre. Things are starting to change as they see their businesses going down the toilet from charging too much. I have a strong feeling the pub landscape will be very different here in a year, price wise especially.

    We're all ready seeing it. There was an email going around with all the pubs in Dublin offering specials etc. Diceys on a Thursday nite, the place is jammers! I've been 9 years in Dublin and never have I had 4eur change from a tenner (after buying 2 pints).


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    #64
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    stepbar wrote: »
    Actually, I'll give the Irish pubs one thing..... the selection of beers are far and away better then over in the UK. Something I will never understand. I was in a small bar beside Jurys Inn in Leeds recently. They only has 1 beer on tap (grolsch). I've never seen it over here and TBH it wouldn't be a beer of choice for me.


    Thats unusual I have to say, funny enough the few Irish bars in the UK I have been in don't have a good choice, but the local pubs have a great choice, most of my drinking in the UK would be in London, but the few bars I have been in Cardiff and Manchester have had excellent choice, our pubs just tend to have the usual stuff on tap.


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    #65
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    meglome wrote: »
    It's amazing the number of people I know who are bringing booze out to the pub with them. I haven't seen the likes of that since we were students and even then it was less. For anyone who drinks spirits you're talking a good €7 for say a vodka with mixer in Dublin city centre. Things are starting to change as they see their businesses going down the toilet from charging too much. I have a strong feeling the pub landscape will be very different here in a year, price wise especially.

    They could start with Dublin Airport, 8 fcuking bars and only 4 piers! Granted 1 is outside but 8 is way too much.


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    #66
    Amalgam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    stepbar wrote: »
    I've been 9 years in Dublin and never have I had 4eur change from a tenner (after buying 2 pints).


    Those two pints, were they acceptable, quality wise, not thinned down or anything?

    Tampering with drinks gets to me something awful, it happens more than the trade would care to admit.


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    #67
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Thats unusual I have to say, funny enough the few Irish bars in the UK I have been in don't have a good choice, but the local pubs have a great choice, most of my drinking in the UK would be in London, but the few bars I have been in Cardiff and Manchester have had excellent choice, our pubs just tend to have the usual stuff on tap.

    I've been in London as well and have found that the selection is quite poor (being used to Miller, Bud, Carlsberg etc on tap). I don't really understand their logic as you see most of the beers over here in off licences but not in the bars.


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    #68
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Amalgam wrote: »
    Those two pints, were they acceptable, quality wise, not thinned down or anything?

    Tampering with drinks gets to me something awful, it happens more than the trade would care to admit.

    Nothing wrong with them TBH. It's very hard to tamper with a beer keg (or so I'm told by my friend who used to be a barman).


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    #69
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    stepbar wrote: »
    I've been in London as well and have found that the selection is quite poor (being used to Miller, Bud, Carlsberg etc on tap). I don't really understand their logic as you see most of the beers over here in off licences but not in the bars.


    I'm more a bitter drinker so I'm well catered for over there, as for beers they tend to have more stuff that we don't get here, so you don't see the likes of Budwiser much.


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    #70
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    I'm more a bitter drinker so I'm well catered for over there, as for beers they tend to have more stuff that we don't get here, so you don't see the likes of Budwiser much.

    That's fair enough but I'm not mad into Bitter. It's a real English drink TBH. Actually it's mad that the Tetely brewery (also produce Carlsberg) is right beside the place I drank in in Leeds but yet neither were on tap.


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    #71
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They only have themselves to blame and really should have learnt their lesson by now.

    A pub in my hometown was charging 2 euro for a pint and had the vintners association on them like a ton of bricks. They demanded that the price be raised back to what it was and warned that if it happened again there would be repercussions. The pub raised the price to 3 euro a pint which lasted all of 3 days before the vintners was back on to them. Prices are now back to over 4 euro a pint.

    Over the past few weeks I've gone out a few items and every night I've been home well before 1. What used to be the busiest bar in town had 2 people in it last Friday week at 12pm, they were charging 5 euro in to see a dreadful band whom didn't even play due to the fact that the place was empty. Other big pubs which would be packed most weekends are having table quiz's on Friday and Saturday nights and still they are empty. Last Saturday myself, my girlfriend and her friend went for a drink and were the only people in what was one of the towns biggest pubs, we left after one and went to 3 other pubs all of which were practically empty.

    The pubs can blame the recession and the government but at the end of the day they are losing business for the simple fact that they refuse to adapt to the changing economical climate. For years they raped us with extortionate prices and now when they should be reevaluating their pricing they refuse to and crack down on any pubs offering a decent price.


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    #72
    hopalong85
    Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭hopalong85


    What can Vinters actually do to a pub that offers reasonable prices? What repurcussions are they capable of delivering? It's pretty much a joke that pubs charge so much in Ireland, I mean seriously.


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    #73
    grenache
    Registered Users Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭grenache


    I have absolutely no pity for the VFI or pub owners. They have consistently offered a poor quality product for years and have overcharged us in the process. You'll pay E4.90 for a pint of Bulmers in a pub to listen to listen to the same $hit noisy music every weekend. You can buy a litre bottle of Bulmers (practically 2 pints) in your local offie for E4.70 and drink it in the comfort of your own home while watching or listening to whatever takes your fancy. I know which one i'd choose.


    Enough about cutting taxes, using the goverment as scapegoats for the high prices. Unless the VFI themselves lower prices and stop being so greedy, people will continue to vote with their feet. The celtic tiger is dead guys. You rhode people for long enough, now its time you gave something back.


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    #74
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Was in Belgium recently, went horse riding for 8 euro for 45 minutes. Went back to the bar at the ranch, bought a round for 5 people for SIX euro... We bought a crate of jupiler for about 12 euro, and if you bring the crate back with the empties you get about 2.50 - 3 euro back... Unreal.


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    #75
    grenache
    Registered Users Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭grenache


    Alessia Long Telephone wrote: »
    Was in Belgium recently, went horse riding for 8 euro for 45 minutes. Went back to the bar at the ranch, bought a round for 5 people for SIX euro... We bought a crate of jupiler for about 12 euro, and if you bring the crate back with the empties you get about 2.50 - 3 euro back... Unreal.
    I'd move to Belgium to sample the Hoegaarden alone! But yeah, from your spending statistics, i would reckon that Belgium has a negligible VAT rate on alcohol. I know France's is 0.6% as opposed to Ireland's 21.5%. There really is no comparison. Even when you remove the tax, the profit margin for producers/publicans in Ireland is much higher than it is in Belgium or France.


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    #76
    SoupyNorman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭SoupyNorman


    Whatever happened to a 'Splash of coke', I really think this defines the pure greediness of Publicans. The splashes of coke started to vanish around the time everything started getting good.

    I have to commend my local, €3 for all drinks from 3pm - 10pm on Saturday. Its not advertised, people were just informed over the counter, now it's common knowledge. The pub is packed all day and when theres any sort of big sporting event on you need to head down at 1 to have any chance of getting a seat.
    It's like a little social experiment in a small town, lower the price and the people come...in their droves.


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    #77
    Quint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,407 ✭✭✭Quint


    stepbar wrote: »
    They did try (on Capel St), but pulled out. They were going to spend 3 million back in 2005 which in fairness was not a massive price back then. I think the impeading smoking ban stopped them which is funny because it happened in the UK a bit after.
    You mean the FF pub owners cartel were NEVER going to let Wetherspoons into the country. If FF TD's owned supermarkets instead of pubs, Lidl and Aldi wouldn't be in the country. Funny how they harp on about competition!
    ScumLord wrote: »
    I really hope Ireland doesn't end up like the UK, most of England is a bland wasteland of the same chains repeated over and over.
    Please, give us the choice and let us choose! You mightn't realise it, but most of dublin city is full of souless chain pubs. At least in England they're cheap souless chain pubs.
    stepbar wrote: »
    Actually, I'll give the Irish pubs one thing..... the selection of beers are far and away better then over in the UK. Something I will never understand. I was in a small bar beside Jurys Inn in Leeds recently. They only has 1 beer on tap (grolsch). I've never seen it over here and TBH it wouldn't be a beer of choice for me.
    I think the selection of beers in Irish pubs is terrible. And you can forget about getting anything unusual in a bottle. At least in england you have a few ales, bitters and usually a few bottled Belgium beers. In ireland it's the same stuff in almost every pub. About 8 largers on tap that all taste the same
    hopalong85 wrote: »
    What can Vinters actually do to a pub that offers reasonable prices? What repurcussions are they capable of delivering? It's pretty much a joke that pubs charge so much in Ireland, I mean seriously.

    They can tell Diagio to stop supplying the cheap reasonable pub, or all their members will stop buying from them. Remember a few months ago the Vintners Federation were brought to court ofer their illegal "price freeze"? This freeze was just after a price rise, but inflation was in minus figures! So it was like a double price rise! That's an example of their price fixing. We all know the Cafe Bar rubbish they came out with. Not to mention the smoking ban crap.
    SoupyNorman wrote: »
    Whatever happened to a 'Splash of coke', I really think this defines the pure greediness of Publicans. The splashes of coke started to vanish around the time everything started getting good.
    I think we all know what happened with the splash of coke! My local pub changed owners, first thing he got rid of was the cans of coke. Replaced them with bottles, which we all know are the biggest rip off on the planet. Instead of getting a mixer that'll do 2 drinks, now you have to buy one for every drink. We all know beer is expensive, but go into a pub that has bottles of minerals and order a pint of coke. You'd buy about 10 liters in tesco for the same price


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    #78
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Quint wrote: »
    Maybe The Vinters Federation should stop organising price fixing and encourage healthy competition between their members.

    But there's more chance of Beyonce, Scarlett Johansson and Sharon Ní Bheoláin breaking down my front door and oil wrestling on my living room floor.

    If you can arrange that, I'm there - and you charge me whatever the heck you like! :D

    Seriously though. The VF and similar known bully gangs should be investigated for their price fixing and their intimidation tactics.
    Sadly, seeing as so many FF TD's (40%) are publicans and thus members of the said organisations, I guess the thugs have the Dail well infiltrated. Thus no investigations, no questions being asked, price fixing continuing, bullying carries on and you get FF TDs crying "Waaa Waaa its not our fault!"

    The Vinters Fed' and FF can fcuk off! No sympathy here, move along...


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    #79
    Long Onion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭Long Onion


    I come from a family of publicans and I have to say that as a group, publicans have been used to enjoying a privileged position in Irish society. Whereas many publicans abroad are no better or worse off than the average grocer/butcher etc. In Ireland, the vast majority of them became mega wealthy.

    They never re-invested enough in the businesses, if publicans had invested in good ventialtion systems etc from the word Go, the may never have had the smoking ban thrust upon them.

    The prices are too high and the service (in many city/busy establishments) is rude and unpleasant. The publicans are now complaining that they can't make a living - the truth is that they can. They can make a comfortable living, they just can't make millions anymore - booooody fcukin' hoooooo lads and ladies, wecome to normality.


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    #80
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Darko, you should report what happened to that pub. Notice how they are now harping on about VAT, they;ll just pocket the difference gained if it was lowered just like the recent Bulmers price reduction.
    stepbar wrote: »
    I'll always harp back to the North when it comes to the price of a pint etc.

    I live fairly close to the border. The nearest town to me is Enniskillen. Down in Enniskillen one can get a pint of beer for a pound. Yes a pound (in Wetherspoons). And if anyone knows it, it's not a very exciting place and it definatly hasn't got the Sky Sports and the lark. Jeasus you might think it's a pint of p1ss eh? Nope quite acceptable beer TBH. And as well as that if you want a dinner with your beer you can expect to pay around 5 pounds (inc beer), which is a little over 6 euro. If anyone can tell me where you could get such a deal, I'll be there with bells on.

    In fact, one night my friends were talking about how if we were 20 miles away in the republic, the same pint of beer might cost twice as much as the pub we were in. Doing a roundup of the pints, the most expensive we came across was Magners (Bulmers up here) for 2.50 STG a pint (bottle). The rest came in at around the 2 pound mark. You'd be lucky to get it up here for around the 4eur mark.

    Been there, done that. I learned about this while doing shopping trips up there.
    Pats Bar on the same street in Enniskillen is like your average pub down here with live music thrown in for that night out. On a night out before shopping on the Sunday, a pint of Guinness and a bottle(330ml) of Magners(Bulmers) cost £5.40. I was shocked. Equivalent down here is about €9.50 upwards.

    So shocked that i ordered another Bulmers bottle for herself. Thats an extra Bulmers bottle for each round when compared to here. Guinness was lovely as well so no deterioration in quality for the price.

    Throw in hotel price of 50pounds and petrol costs for the journey and then shopping on the Sunday, still worth it financially!


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    #81
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    SoupyNorman wrote: »
    I have to commend my local, €3 for all drinks from 3pm - 10pm on Saturday. Its not advertised, people were just informed over the counter, now it's common knowledge. The pub is packed all day and when theres any sort of big sporting event on you need to head down at 1 to have any chance of getting a seat.
    It's like a little social experiment in a small town, lower the price and the people come...in their droves.

    To be fair you can blame our "nanny state" for that one. What they are doing is actually illegal (and is why it's not advertised).


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    #82
    Amalgam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    Always the nanny state.. Pirate Vintners more like. The trade wants things to stay just as they are, from the point of view of pricing at the consumer end, but will happily howl and bawl at anyone, that they need\deserve a good bit of slack at the trade end.

    Things will get far worse I think, before some of the various groups realise that the value of their service has to improve.


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    #83
    Euro_Kraut
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭Euro_Kraut


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    To be fair you can blame our "nanny state" for that one. What they are doing is actually illegal (and is why it's not advertised).

    Thats true. There was an article in todays Indo about a pub in Portobello that fell foul of the Happy Hours laws.

    What bugs me is the is okay from pub to put drink up after a certain time of the night but illegal to reduce them. How the pre 11 o'clock prices in a pub are not also classified as a Happy Hour is beyond me.


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    #84
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Euro_Kraut wrote: »
    What bugs me is the is okay from pub to put drink up after a certain time of the night but illegal to reduce them. How the pre 11 o'clock prices in a pub are not also classified as a Happy Hour is beyond me.

    We are in agreement here. Its convenient madness when it suits certain quarters.

    Pre-11 the potential is there for attracting in customers.
    After 11, whats in the pub usually stays there and wanders to others far less.
    If I was a FF politician owning a bar, would I want at an earlier hour the potential for others to have reason to go elsewhere?

    Nope, so they make sure the law in this area is an ass too!


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    #85
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    Amalgam wrote: »
    Always the nanny state.. Pirate Vintners more like. The trade wants things to stay just as they are, from the point of view of pricing at the consumer end, but will happily howl and bawl at anyone, that they need\deserve a good bit of slack at the trade end.

    Things will get far worse I think, before some of the various groups realise that the value of their service has to improve.

    Don't get me wrong the vintners are a horrible organisation and deserve nothing but your contempt. I was simply outlining the fact that even if a publican wants to put on such a promotion our all protecting govt. have made it illegal to do so.


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    #86
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong the vintners are a horrible organisation and deserve nothing but your contempt. I was simply outlining the fact that even if a publican wants to put on such a promotion our all protecting govt. have made it illegal to do so.

    See post 85! :)


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    #87
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    Biggins wrote: »
    See post 85! :)

    Quite possible. I'm sure the vintners have some pull in government along with developers and bankers. However not everything is done to suit them, take the smoking ban for example.


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    #88
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    Quite possible. I'm sure the vintners have some pull in government along with developers and bankers. However not everything is done to suit them, take the smoking ban for example.
    Some pull? 40% of them being publicans apparently!

    Smoking ban...!
    FF had NO choice with that one.
    It was European directive (which applied to all member states) - so they for once were screwed!
    Now there is a reason for voting "Yes" - just to see FF screwed more often! :pac:


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    #89
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    Biggins wrote: »
    Some pull? 40% of them being publicans apparently!

    Smoking ban...!
    FF had NO choice with that one.
    It was European directive (which applied to all member states) - so they for once were screwed!
    Now there is a reason for voting "Yes" - just to see FF screwed more often! :pac:

    As far as I know we were the first to introduce it and I think countries in the EU still allow it right? Anywho I agree that most of the time the law is built to suit them.

    (Off topic I think I'll stick with no to lisbon and rather campaign to oust FF and the Greens for government in the next election ;) )


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    #90
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    As far as I know we were the first to introduce it and I think countries in the EU still allow it right? Anywho I agree that most of the time the law is built to suit them.

    (Off topic I think I'll stick with no to lisbon and rather campaign to oust FF and the Greens for government in the next election ;) )

    In 2009, many EU countries are still failing to enact comprehensive smokefree air laws in indoor public places, work places and public transit, in spite of its legal obligation to do so under the (WHO) Framework Convention on Tobacco Control (FCTC), the world’s first public health treaty

    HERE

    Yea, I agree, a lot of laws are enacted it seems just to suit certain bodies.
    Irish politics for you! Depressing. :(


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