How should motorway service areas be signed?

Amtmann

Okay, get the crayons out! What kind of ADS, gore and cantilever signs should be used?

Tech3

Knowing Ireland it will ideally be a bad British version. I will have a look at other countries ADS for MSA's.

Typewriter

Some UK examples...

Sponge Bob

Empire o de Sun

I like the way in France, each service area (and rest area) has a name.

Empire o de Sun

tech2 wrote: »

Knowing Ireland it will ideally be a bad British version. I will have a look at other countries ADS for MSA's.

This is partially probalbly not just cos of our location of Brtian, but cos it's manuals are all free online. And it's probably a UK consultancy working for the department of transport updating the TSM. Oh yeah, what ever happened to the updated TSM, wasn't it supposed to have been published 2 or 3 years ago?

murphaph

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

This is partially probalbly not just cos of our location of Brtian, but cos it's manuals are all free online. And it's probably a UK consultancy working for the department of transport updating the TSM. Oh yeah, what ever happened to the updated TSM, wasn't it supposed to have been published 2 or 3 years ago?

It's not! (unfortunately). The TRL tendered for it and lost out to Roughnan & O'Donovam (who probably haven't a clue) IIRC. Why are consulting ENGINEERS redeigning the TSM. It should be a DESIGN house, like the original UK TSM!

Empire o de Sun

Oh so that's where the loss of aspect depth and ratio comes from in over signs.:mad:

Empire o de Sun

........ and the use of a heavy font on a dark background.

Carawaystick

A french example

The signs show( top to bottom) it's wheelchair accessible, it's name, the slip lane is in 300m, and the next two stops with similar facilities, a fuel stop is in 33km and the next rest stop with toilets and picnic area is in only 11km.

There is obviously advance signage usually 5,2,1 km in advance of the rest stop too. And all our stops will be fully accessible, so shouldn't need to specify that.


Here's another one, this is more cluttered than usual, there usually isn;t an exit to complicate things.

Notice the fuel prices on the second sign (In yellow type, with the square Carrefour symbol on top) there's three types of petrol, 98/95 Octane and super(lead replacement), Diesel, LPG
Fuel is usually dearer on the Motorway so you can decide in advance if you're going to get it on the motorway or go offline.

G_R

rite i got my (digital) crayons out,

i reckon the signs should look something like this

Amtmann

What about patching the corporate logos of individual service providers onto the blue signs? I noticed lots of McDonalds, Shell and BurgerKing patches on official Auobahn signage in Germany.

BluntGuy

Interesting thread. If I get some time and motivation, I'll get out the ol' photoshop crayons and produce something.

serfboard

Furet wrote: »

What about patching the corporate logos of individual service providers onto the blue signs? I noticed lots of McDonalds, Shell and BurgerKing patches on official Auobahn signage in Germany.

IIRC, the motorways in France have advanced signage with how far, and what brand of fuel is sold at, upcoming service areas.

E.g.

Total 50K
Shell 90K etc.

10-10-20

The signs will have the Irish language for 'services' listed first and in italics, confusing the hell out of most motorists.
Down with that sort of thing.

The size of the Irish on the sign should be proportional to the percentage of population using it.

Amtmann

No-one reply to that. This isn't about the Irish language. Drop it now, 10-10-20.

10-10-20

It may seem unfair but let me expand somewhat on what I mean.

Take a motorway off-ramp which is signed at the roundabout with warnings "Wrong way, turn back" on the right and the Irish equivalent on the left.
It's a general understanding that safety signs such as these need to clearly warn of the risks ahead.
If a driver neglects to read the English version on the right and is faced only with the Irish version on the left, what are the chances of that driver clearly understanding the warning?

I believe that I have a valid concern, but possibly delivered in a poor manner.

Amtmann

Explanation accepted; however that is not an issue for this thread and in order to prevent the thread from derailing, bring it up elsewhere if you like, but not here.

BluntGuy

Well, I got the ol' crayons out, but I was too lazy to use photoshop, I just threw these quickly together in paint so apologies for the scrappy appearance.

I'd like the signage to be kept nice and simple.

Something like this, perhaps a 10km, 5km and 2km.




Followed simply by a mini-ADS




And then the standard "EXIT" sign, except labelled with services.

Amtmann

Nice job Blunt. What do you think about patching corporate logos?

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

Nice job Blunt. What do you think about patching corporate logos?

I'd rather corporate logos of any description were kept off the official signage. If McDonalds, Burger King, etc. want to advertise, they should only be allowed do it through a TSM-approved sign that doesn't interfere in any way with the important signage.

Amtmann

I'm minded to agree; what about those giant tower things they put up on the continent and in the States? I suspect Cashel will have one of those shortly.

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

I'm minded to agree; what about those giant tower things they put up on the continent and in the States? I suspect Cashel will have one of those shortly.

Ah, yes. I can't wait to see the hideous, distracting signage South Tipp. Co. Council will let Topaz & friends get away with.

When is that horrible development scheduled to open then?

Amtmann

BluntGuy wrote: »

Ah, yes. I can't wait to see the hideous, distracting signage South Tipp. Co. Council will let Topaz & friends get away with.

When is that horrible development scheduled to open then?

Good bit off yet I'd say. The new ramps aren't ready at all yet either.

Carawaystick

The pics shown are good. I'd prefer the ladies and gents symbol for toilets, than WC and there should be a picnic sign too. and parking.

If all the services are to be similar, fuel, shop, jacks, parking etc, then maybe there's no need for the pics, but they clearly convey the info.

G_R

Carawaystick wrote: »

The pics shown are good. I'd prefer the ladies and gents symbol for toilets, than WC and there should be a picnic sign too. and parking.

ye so would i but i couldn't find one and my skills as an artist leave a lot to be desired so i was working with what i had.

BluntGuy

dannym08 wrote: »

ye so would i but i couldn't find one and my skills as an artist leave a lot to be desired so i was working with what i had.

I really like your sign idea, but I'd say it'd be more suited for a cantilever or one of those new-style signs replacing the cantilever, than a 2 km mark.

Perhaps something along these lines:

Zoney

Would "Áiseanna" be a better choice for the Irish?

Also surely it would fit our signage here to have it on a brown sign. The new M20 signs have quite neat brown panels for e.g. rugby at Dooradoyle, Limerick racecourse, Patrickswell "services" (i.e. symbols for food, drink, petrol, B&B).

G_R

BluntGuy wrote: »

I really like your sign idea, but I'd say it'd be more suited for a cantilever or one of those new-style signs replacing the cantilever, than a 2 km mark.

thanks. ye it prob would be. But do you not think we should include the symbols for foreign drivers who dont speak english or irish. I know it would probably be pretty obvious but even so

maybe something like this:


EDIT
i just realised i spelled Seirbhís wrong. Just imagine its right!

G_R

Zoney wrote: »

Would "Áiseanna" be a better choice for the Irish?

if memory serves that means facilities, yes?

i'd say serbhís or whatever way you spell it would be a better option tbh,

Carawaystick

Zoney wrote: »

Would "Áiseanna" be a better choice for the Irish?

Also surely it would fit our signage here to have it on a brown sign. The new M20 signs have quite neat brown panels for e.g. rugby at Dooradoyle, Limerick racecourse, Patrickswell "services" (i.e. symbols for food, drink, petrol, B&B).

The brown signs are for tourist info and aren't on the Motorway, The services/rest areas are. So I'd use both types, brown for offline areas and blue for online.

Empire o de Sun

Services aren't a tourist attraction, should be in Blue

BluntGuy

This may give some indication as to how the MSAs will be signed.

M1 Southern MSA EIS:

http://www.nra.ie/Publications/EISPublications/file,15149,en.pdf

Advanced signage will be provided on the M1 motorway to advise motorists of the approach to the proposed motorway service area.

A road traffic sign displaying fuel prices will be provided adjacent to the motorway in advance of the off slip for the motorway service area.

A concessionaire advertising sign will be provided for adjacent to the diverge slip lane into each motorway service area close to the roundabout. The sign will be up to 12 metres in height and will accommodate advertising for the fuel pricing and amenities provided for at the motorway service area.

Signage providing information about the approaching motorway service area will be provided in the motorway verge at approximately 10km, 1km and 500m in advance of the motorway service area. This signage will include the distance to the approaching motorway service area and symbols indicating the services that will be available i.e toilets, food, fuel etc. In addition some of the signs may provide distance information to the subsequent motorway service area along the route. The height of this signage will be no greater than 8 metres.

101sean

A road traffic sign displaying fuel prices will be provided adjacent to the motorway in advance of the off slip for the motorway service area.

They used to display fuel prices on UK motorway service signs but this was dropped presumeably as a hazard, someone had to physically go on the hard shoulder and put new stickers on. They should drop that requirement unless it's done electronically, prices fluctuate daily, sending a spotty youth down the HS to alter them isn't the safest or brightest idea:eek:

munchkin_utd

re petrol prices signed on the motorway itsself,
I would also think that it could be a hazzard for the drivers themselves plus a possible source of congestion (alike rubbernecking with an accident on the other hard shoulder.)

People would slow down in order to read the sign, see if they can find the fuel type that applies to them, consider the price, think of the price they pay at home, and in the process be distracted from driving, probably slowing down, and possibly causing the person behind to brake.
And when one person brakes in reasonably heavy traffic, it has a domino effect which eventually can lead to stationary traffic and traffic jams.

And if the price is really good, you'll have gobsh1tes carving in from the fast lane at 120 kmh+ to make it in time for the exit to get the petrol thats a cent cheaper than somewhere else.

biffoman

101sean wrote: »

They used to display fuel prices on UK motorway service signs but this was dropped presumeably as a hazard, someone had to physically go on the hard shoulder and put new stickers on. They should drop that requirement unless it's done electronically, prices fluctuate daily, sending a spotty youth down the HS to alter them isn't the safest or brightest idea:eek:

Why don't the people in "NRA" erect Gantry's ,put services signs on them and if not straight away because of...funds or whatever reason they would give.leave room for electronic warning signs.like most things in this country too much bull ... is thrown at simple solutions.were gonna need them and should of being included in the master-plan for the motorways

munchkin_utd

And what about current "service areas" as was originally invisaged? (i.e, use a village or town off the motorway)

There are brown signs to direct you off the motorway towards petrol stations "near" the motorway.
At least at monasterevin, you come off and you are faced with the choice of turning left or right with no further signage to where you might fill your almost empty petrol tank.

I nearly caused an accident from faffing about, looking for a sign for the petrol station, then where the shaggin hell might a station be, then after 10 seconds of horns honking behind me maneuvering off in a not very calm frame of mind.

Is this a one off or is it simply to be expected that in Ireland signs are a novelty and the only way of finding your way about is a sat nav or Map+compass?

If the current arrangements could be properly signed it'd be a decent start.

munchkin_utd

(just posting here to avoid creating a duplicate thread)
The UK introduced new signage a few months back that allow the logo of the operator and the various franchises to be displayed on the sign like this:


To be honest, I find it a great idea as its no harm to indicate clearly what you are getting where ever you come off the motorway.

full info is here on how the UK sign their motorway services: http://motorwayservicesonline.co.uk/Motorway_Signs