Future of International Rugby

chupacabra

FridaysWell wrote: »

Im the best Leinster supporter ever. Period.

Oh and you would be missing out on all the freebies I give out.

Id rather not leave the stadium covered in cum thank you very much.

anonymous_joe

chupacabra wrote: »

Id rather not leave the stadium covered in cum thank you very much.

There's definitely a Bruno reference that could go in here.

Diamondmaker

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Aussies are switching to footy anyway.

Dont have statistical proof, just noticing the folks on the street.

Thats also down to the failure of the Oz team to be competitive at all really, to their expectations, over the last few years..

I can totally see the appeal of NRL these days, more tries, more ball through hands and the rules allow pace and therefore big hits and big plays. I have seen some insane tries over the last season that you would never dream up in any Union league.

Sophisticated it is not sometimes but it is entertaining.

anonymous_joe

Diamondmaker wrote: »

Thats also down to the failure of the Oz team to be competitive at all really, to their expectations, over the last few years..

I can totally see the appeal of NRL these days, more tries, more ball through hands and the rules allow pace and therefore big hits and big plays. I have seen some insane tries over the last season that you would never dream up in any Union league.

Sophisticated it is not sometimes but it is entertaining.

They've the smallest player pool of the Tri Nations, and it really shows.

Goose81

Diamondmaker wrote: »

Thats also down to the failure of the Oz team to be competitive at all really, to their expectations, over the last few years..

I can totally see the appeal of NRL these days, more tries, more ball through hands and the rules allow pace and therefore big hits and big plays. I have seen some insane tries over the last season that you would never dream up in any Union league.

Sophisticated it is not sometimes but it is entertaining.

And more wife/girlfriend beaters,rapists,druggies and alchoholics than you can shake a stick at.
How any parent in AUS would encourage their children to follow league instead of rugby is beyond me,you couldnt find a more disgusting bunch as role models if you tried.

I love league but they are a horrible bunch over there.

Stev_o

Tbh if Union doesn't step up in the next few years i can definitely see alot of SH fanbase going to Rugby League which at the moment is infinitely more impressive and entertaining. Even worse is if the RFL got their fingers out and pushed the game in the States i could easily see it overleap unions progression there.

One suggestion that was made was the introduction of rolling substitutions, to me it sounds like a good idea as it would mean that there wouldn't be a lull in the game where most players are dead on their feat.

@Goose it's the same with the New Zealanders in Union there have been a few high cases of assault on their wives by husbands.

Goose81

Stev_o wrote: »

Tbh if Union doesn't step up in the next few years i can definitely see alot of SH fanbase going to Rugby League which at the moment is infinitely more impressive and entertaining. Even worse is if the RFL got their fingers out and pushed the game in the States i could easily see it overleap unions progression there.

One suggestion that was made was the introduction of rolling substitutions, to me it sounds like a good idea as it would mean that there wouldn't be a lull in the game where most players are dead on their feat.

I would love that.

Steve I agree with you on the NZ's in union but league players take the piss,they are 10x worse than any premiership footballers.Most are plain scum.

Stev_o

Goose81 wrote: »

I would love that.

Steve I agree with you on the NZ's in union but league players take the piss,they are 10x worse than any premiership footballers.Most are plain scum.

Oh yeah i know that there is some serious lunatics playing footy over there caused by the celebrity status, booze women and lifestyle .

If only international rugby had more of this,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knVapkn5T2k

FridaysWell

chupacabra wrote: »

Id rather not leave the stadium covered in cum thank you very much.

I don't blame you. But would a free Malcom O'Kelly worn jersey be enuff compensation?? :P

chupacabra

FridaysWell wrote: »

I don't blame you. But would a free Malcom O'Kelly worn jersey be enuff compensation?? :P

Dont want to leave covered in shít either :rolleyes:

FridaysWell

chupacabra wrote: »

Dont want to leave covered in shít either :rolleyes:

I take my hat off to you.


Nice one :P

OldJay

anonymous_joe wrote: »

One is made up of the likes of Les Kiss, Shaun Edwards, etc. Basically the defensive coaches. Defence in rugby has come on leaps and bounds in recent years

Coaches like Les are not just used for defence patterns or the technical side of a tackle, they are used for coaching in attack too. After all, if anyone is going to know how to crack open a defence line, it will be a defence specialist.

The area which has choked the game, in my opinion anyway, is the ruck. Teams should have no reason to not have to commit players to a ruck. It should be a contestable affair. Not a done and dusted stage of possession. More players in the ruck and there's more space.

I feel a lot of the posts about the game changing are slightly overreactive.
As for the sport in Aussie, it needs success via tournament wins.

Be that in the S14, Tri or World Cup. Post-1999 in Australia, rugby union was doing very well indeed on top of the RWC, Tri Nations/Bledisloe wins. They'd a great squad, best captain ever, a super backline and wonderful pack plus excellent support on the back of that.

OldJay

Goose81 wrote: »

Steve I agree with you on the NZ's in union but league players take the piss,they are 10x worse than any premiership footballers.Most are plain scum.

Thats a disgraceful generalisation and entirely blinkered, I'd say. Unless of course, you've been ignoring the rugby union headlines over the past few years.

OldJay

Goose81 wrote: »

And more wife/girlfriend beaters,rapists,druggies and alchoholics than you can shake a stick at.
How any parent in AUS would encourage their children to follow league instead of rugby is beyond me,you couldnt find a more disgusting bunch as role models if you tried

Wife beaters? How about Tuituopu? Sivivatu? Cecillon, the ex France intl even shot his wife dead.
Rapists? Japie Mulder?
Drugs? An especially RL thing? Are you serious especially with the past few months in mind??? :eek:
Alcoholics? And you finish off with the demon drink. Of course, no rugby union player or staffer has ever gone overboard with grog and made the papers, eh? Henjak, Barkley, Dunning, Henson, Thomas, Philips, Jeffrey...
Ask Mike Tindall for a lift and he'll say "not quite yet, mate"...
Don't forget racism and GBH (on and off-field) and you'll have more fair overview.

No angels in either code. Its down to the individuals. Not the code they play.

Amabokke

Nothing wrong with rugby in it's current game. You not going to please everyone by changing the rules to suit expansive rugby. Teams will always adjust to the rules of the game and play a game that is attractive to some and boring to others.

The big question here is what is important for teams and their supporters. Playing expansive all the time, scoring tries but only win every 2nd game. Would Irish supporters be happy if Ireland play expansive running rugby, score 3-6 great tries in each match but win/loose 50/50? Or would they be happy if Ireland score lower amount of tries but win every game?

In this year's 6N Eng and France scored more tries than Ireland but both lost. NZ in the 2007 WC played expansive and lost before the finals, which drove the fans mad!

In the first WC there was over quarter of a million spectators watching the rugby WC, in the last one over 4 billion. The game will never changed to League regardless of the rules. There is too much history, culture and passion with this game. Sponsorships are also a big thing.

The IRB can change the laws again and some teams will just rise again with some gameplan that others will find boring.

Although I also do like a bit more action in rugby I won't ever loose interest in this game or switch to league.

I believe any changes that will be made in future will be the change in tournaments. Greater integration between SH and NH and bigger club competitions.

Stev_o

Amabokke wrote: »

Nothing wrong with rugby in it's current game. You not going to please everyone by changing the rules to suit expansive rugby. Teams will always adjust to the rules of the game and play a game that is attractive to some and boring to others.

The big question here is what is important for teams and their supporters. Playing expansive all the time, scoring tries but only win every 2nd game. Would Irish supporters be happy if Ireland play expansive running rugby, score 3-6 great tries in each match but win/loose 50/50? Or would they be happy if Ireland score lower amount of tries but win every game?

.

But the thing is though that was what more or less happened to us, besides the RWC and 08 6N we played lovely heads up rugby that was very pleasing to watch but we never got past the final hurdle we'd always land straight on our face.

This year we played a very low que gameplan which was more rugged and win at all costs sort of mold and it won us the GS. You can jump for joy that we won yes but christ it was boring rugby.

Amabokke

Stev_o wrote: »

But the thing is though that was what more or less happened to us, besides the RWC and 08 6N we played lovely heads up rugby that was very pleasing to watch but we never got past the final hurdle we'd always land straight on our face.

This year we played a very low que gameplan which was more rugged and win at all costs sort of mold and it won us the GS. You can jump for joy that we won yes but christ it was boring rugby.

Well, I believe you have answered your own question. Nobody wants to see their team loose, boring rugby or not supporters would take a win any day.

anonymous_joe

Amabokke wrote: »

Well, I believe you have answered your own question. Nobody wants to see their team loose, boring rugby or not supporters would take a win any day.

Yeah, true that, but if you're playing boring rugby and losing you risk losing all your fans.

I can see rugby losing out to football a lot in Australia and South Africa for definite. It's growing in this country because we're doing well, imagine if we'd gone the route of Scotland at the turn of the millenium...

2040

I agree with most of what has been said on this thread, but it's depressing me.

Amabokke

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Yeah, true that, but if you're playing boring rugby and losing you risk losing all your fans.

Every goes through good and bad phases. Fans will just have to suck it up when they loose and enjoy it when they win. You might loose fans when teams start to loose but they'll always be back when things go well.

Nobody wants to see Darvis Patton running the 100m, most people would follow Usain Bolt.

anonymous_joe

Amabokke wrote: »

Every goes through good and bad phases. Fans will just have to suck it up when they loose and enjoy it when they win. You might loose fans when teams start to loose but they'll always be back when things go well.

Nobody wants to see Darvis Patton running the 100m, most people would follow Usain Bolt.

Ah yeah, I know.

And Darvis Patton? :o

Stev_o

Amabokke wrote: »

Every goes through good and bad phases. Fans will just have to suck it up when they loose and enjoy it when they win. You might loose fans when teams start to loose but they'll always be back when things go well.

Nobody wants to see Darvis Patton running the 100m, most people would follow Usain Bolt.

Yes but i think the point is that Australia are probably playing the more attractive rugby outta the other 3N teams so you know they ll be thinking whats the point of throwing the ball around if it won't net results.

Goose81

Ah but it will,AUS just dont have a good enough team.NZ should and would have won the world cup in 2007 had it not been for the ref playing attractive rugby,people cite SA not playing attractive rugby but that is because their backline players just dont have the talent to play such a game.

Its much more structured whereas France and NZ players skills are fantastic,you cant play that style unless its in the culture and coached the whole way through.

Amabokke

Goose81 wrote: »

Ah but it will,AUS just dont have a good enough team.NZ should and would have won the world cup in 2007 had it not been for the ref playing attractive rugby,people cite SA not playing attractive rugby but that is because their backline players just dont have the talent to play such a game.

Its much more structured whereas France and NZ players skills are fantastic,you cant play that style unless its in the culture and coached the whole way through.

What rubbish. Aus have an amazing team, probably more talent, experience and skill than the ABs at this current time.

What ifs :rolleyes: NZ lost not because of the ref but because they diverted from their expansive gameplan and could not break the French. They shouldve scored at least two more tries if they're that good.

The same boks backline scored more tries than any other team during the WC against tougher opposition and against Aus last year we scored 8, against Eng 6. The gameplan is decided by the coach who does not want them to play expansive, which we tried last year and came last in the 3N.

You do know so far NZ isn't producing a whole lot of tries this year.

Yes but i think the point is that Australia are probably playing the more attractive rugby outta the other 3N teams so you know they ll be thinking whats the point of throwing the ball around if it won't net results.

Whats attractive about it if you can't score tries?? All the running around and throwing the ball. That's just pointless. Aus will be last in this year's 3N because of they way they play.

OldJay

Goose81 wrote: »

NZ should and would have won the world cup in 2007 had it not been for the ref

Oh for god's sake...

Goose81

Amabokke wrote: »

What rubbish. Aus have an amazing team, probably more talent, experience and skill than the ABs at this current time.

What ifs :rolleyes: NZ lost not because of the ref but because they diverted from their expansive gameplan and could not break the French. They shouldve scored at least two more tries if they're that good.

The same boks backline scored more tries than any other team during the WC against tougher opposition and against Aus last year we scored 8, against Eng 6. The gameplan is decided by the coach who does not want them to play expansive, which we tried last year and came last in the 3N.

You do know so far NZ isn't producing a whole lot of tries this year.


Whats attractive about it if you can't score tries?? All the running around and throwing the ball. That's just pointless. Aus will be last in this year's 3N because of they way they play.

Bokke dont even quote try stats for the world cup,your group was a joke and most of the top 4 teams would have scored alot of tries aswell,some countries just dont have the instinctive flair and SA is one,so is Ireland for that matter.
France when playing of the cuff is beautiful.

Amabokke

Goose81 wrote: »

Bokke dont even quote try stats for the world cup,your group was a joke and most of the top 4 teams would have scored alot of tries aswell,some countries just dont have the instinctive flair and SA is one,so is Ireland for that matter.
France when playing of the cuff is beautiful.

:rolleyes: And the French are doing brilliant huh? Can't even win the 6N, generally struggle during SH tours and always drop out in WC.

You're also ill-informed:

SA, England, Tonga, Samoa, USA
New Zealand, Scotland, Italy, Romania, Portugal,
Australia, Wales, Fiji, Japan, Canada
Argentinia, France, Ireland, Georgie, Namibia

Our group was one of the toughest, we didn't have one easy game,

SA 33, Eng 12, Arg 23 and France 27 were the top 4 teams

and just for fun

next top 4 teams with tries:
Australia 15, NZ 48, Fiji 16, Scotland 15

So, if you do the math if you can you'll see that alot of teams bar NZ who had easier groups than SA scored less tries.

Diamondmaker

Goose81 wrote: »

And more wife/girlfriend beaters,rapists,druggies and alchoholics than you can shake a stick at.
How any parent in AUS would encourage their children to follow league instead of rugby is beyond me,you couldnt find a more disgusting bunch as role models if you tried.

I love league but they are a horrible bunch over there.

I wonder though just t compare them to Prem Soccer players.........

I always thought that the UK press was the worlds worst at vilifying sports stars, politicians or even the roayls. Therefore I assumed that most of what happens by Premiership Players would have gone reported.

After 2 years here and the stories I have heard in the press ( mainly NRL ) I wonder are they a " worse lot " or have the big Prem CLubs just got a much better wall of silence and or more goes on behind closed doors in ultra posh clubs.
NRL is a lot more down to earth, in that these guys often are seen out in normal clubs, unlike Prem players. I was talking to some Broncos only a few weeks ago.
I dont think sports stars from any one code can be worse than any other, its just the NRLs time to be vilified by the press, I think.

Ultimiately the product is constantly being dragged through the mud by the press and the seemingly ever willing players to assist. The product is still good as a form of entertainment through ball in hand rugby and tabloid press aside you can see why league fans, especially NRL, like league.

Union had better start picking its act up with regard to entertainment or we will be heading back to the days of 6-3 score line games....Incidentally I belive a lot of this changed when the try went to 5 points and I belive this can change again.

PS. I also go to more league games as unfortunately QRL think they can charge more for tickets for a **** house team than Broncos can charge for attending a game at the same venue ! How do Super league prices compare with the English Prem any one know ??

Stev_o

"As a result prices range from £21 through to £76." That's CCC final.

Say football is from 80 onwards.

Four-Percent

Who would be upset if Ireland won the 6N next year playing the same gameplan as South Africa?

I know I wouldn't.

Professional teams's philosophy these days is that the results is all-important.

If Ireland lost all their games but played great rugby, would attendances go up? No.

If they won all their games but played boring rugby, would attendances go up? Yes. Case in point, the Grand Slam. So many more people are showing an interest in rugby these days.

Look at this thread. A few years ago, rugby would have been up there with gaelic at the least.Now, with the success of Munster, people aren't ashamed to say they like rugby.


They don't know what a beautiful style looks like (especially if they watch Munster ) but they like what they see because the winning appeals to them.Nothing to do with how many passes a team can make, or how many tries are scored from a scything back move.