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UK tabloids report plans for mass graves in response to Swine Flu
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20-08-2009 9:16pm#1
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We can't meanigfully look at the potential impact from a vaccine that hasn't been rolled out, so it would be foolish to say "because it hasn't happened yet, its scaremongering to suggest it could happen at all".
Of course something could always go wrong. We could be looking at deformed kids in two generations time or something. But seems to me the same people who are vaccination-shy are the same people so concerned with the swine flu itself. My point is that a GP would say the vaccination is safe because for all intents and purposes, at this stage and from all available knowledge as far is the doc is concerned it is. Not because the 'smoking man in the back seat of his car' told him to tell people it is.What is, perhaps, being overlooked is that the same flaw exists in the claims that the pandemic is also being overblown. People are basically arguing that because we haven't seen massive fatalities already, it won't happen....and that until we have need of those mass graves and its too late to do anything, we shouldn't trust anyone who as much as suggests that something might need to be done, or draws up plans for the evnetuality that it could happen.
I'm all for plans being drawn up etc. IMO they probably won't be needed but prepare away. Of course massive fatalities could happen. What I was commenting on is the omnipresence of SWINE FLU!!!...... it's every where, newspapers, tv, radio, boards.ie... when in reality more people are dying from the common cold. But it doesn't get mentioned..
. It doesn't sell newspapers, not quite so exotic I suppose. People where I work, swine flu is about the number 1 topic of conversation everytime someone sneezes or coughs, and I'm sick of it (pardon the pun).Lets imagine, for just a second, that the threat from the pandemic is real...that the progression of the flu is following the standard pattern for a pandemic, and that the death toll will be somewhere from hundreds of thousands to tens of millions worldwide. Whether or not you accept that this is the case...just pretend for a moment that we're in such a scenario.
At what point should someone start thinking about doing something about it? At what point should they start planning for prevention and/or management of the disaster?
Of course prepare. I never said what was advocated in the article shouldn't be done. I was merely putting some perspective on the whole thing. Do we have mass graves for victims of the common cold?It seems to me that what's being argued is that nothing should be done until the bodies are countable....what which point, I'm sure no-one would level as much as a single accusation at governments for not having prepared or tried something to prevent the situation, right? Not one conspiracy theory would exist to say that the inaction of the government was deliberate to ensure a maximum of impact, and to further some other goals.
Absolutely not. Obviously these plans are being drawn up by experts in their fields etc who know about these things better than I. If this is their judgement of a prudent course of action I'm all for it. What I'm not all for is people building up a hypothetical situation into something which is guaranteed. Most people so far have recovered from the swine flu as anyone with the regular flu does. It hasn't caused that many casualties in the grand scheme of things so why the focus on H1N1?Again...the same logic applies to both sides. Look at who benefits from keeping the scare-mongering about vaccination in the headline news. The same people who are selling headline news plus those with an agenda which is furthered by said headlines.
Usually they are one and the same.0 -
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The "word on the street" is that the US and UK will be getting the "special" vaccines, everywhere else will be getting the regular ones. It's just a rumour with absolutely nothing to back it as far as I can tell, but it would be a convenient way to enforce martial law and a subsequent corporate takeover of the US and UK.
Just a rumour, but an interesting one all the same.
Welcome to the conspiracy theories forum!
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Captain Furball wrote: »The news papers are trying to scare the crap out of people.
How are they able to sleep at night is beyond me lol.
If mass graves start being excavated in Ireland and a picture such as the one above appears in our newspapers, expect to see 7 or 8 boyos standing beside the digger eating breakfast rolls co-ordinating the job. Also expect the following headline and story in the papers:
First mass grave due for completion in 2011
The mass graves currently being excavated as part of the State's pandemic emergency planning strategy are expected to be delayed for at least another 2 years. Problems arose in the project after a recent spate of burglaries in construction sites across the country, currently upto 132 JCBs have been reported as stolen. Sources at the Garda Headquarters in Dublin have stated that the JCB's have been linked to attempted robberies on "hole-in the-wall" machines across the country as people resort to desperate measures due to the depature of the "Celtic Tiger" from our shores.......0 -
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The british government must be getting some "Brown" envelopes from big pharma, except it's Gordon and not Bertie wrote on it.
They have their mass graves plan sorted so people who don't want to be buried in them are running for "tamiflu", the new fad.
But somebody threw a spanner in the works,
Oxford researchers warn against giving Tamiflu to children.
Children should not be given the anti-viral drug Tamiflu to combat swine flu, Oxford University researchers said today.
They urged the British Department of Health to urgently rethink its policy on giving the drugs to youngsters affected by the current flu pandemic.
Some 300,000 people in England, including children and adults, have received courses of Tamiflu through the British government’s National Pandemic Flu Service for England.
Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/oxford-researchers-warn-against-giving-tamiflu-to-children-422030.html#ixzz0OphG8fUA
Mass Tamiflu doses not needed: UN health experts.
Healthy people who catch swine flu do not need antiviral drugs such as Tamiflu, the World Health Organisation said today.
The advice contradicts Britain’s policy of giving out Tamiflu to all suspected of having the illness.
WHO said most patients infected with swine flu worldwide recover within a week without any medical treatment. About 40% of the severe swine flu cases are occurring in previously healthy children and adults, usually under 50 years of age.
Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/mass-tamiflu-doses-not-needed-un-health-experts-423400.html#ixzz0OphpwCRN
This leads to the bigger question AGAIN, why is every country ordering so much vaccine?
A) You're talking about tamiflu, rather than the vaccine.
That paper from oxford never suggests that tamiflu shouldn't be given to children. That's a dangerous interpretation.They said it shouldn't be given to kids with mild illness. In pretty much all countries, only people with moderate to severe illness are given tamiflu.
C) Britain are not giving tamiflu to all suspected of having the illness. It's offered to people at the GP's discretion, which is what a lot of countries did in their treatment phase (which the UK is still in). That trial from Oxfors that you talk about concluded "Their effects on the incidence of serious complications, and on the current A/H1N1 influenza strain remain to be determined.". This is different to saying it doesn't work.The patients in this trial had seasonal flu, as opposed to swine flu. But one of the reasons for giving people tamiflu early in the pandemic is because it makes people less contagious. There is only a brief menion of this in the study. We also give it to prevent pneumonia (the bad side effect of swine flu and the cause of swine flu deaths) but this study says "none of the studies (That wer eincluded in this paper) was sufficiently powered to determine the effects of neuraminidase inhibitors on serious complication of influenza (such as pneumonia or admission to hospital)". Just because it's from Oxford doesn't mean it's important. These guys were a group of GPs who published a nice paper. But there's nothing much new in it. They reported 1 in 20 kids developing vomiting after tamiflu. No mention that I could find of dehydration and hospitalisation.0 -
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Captain Furball wrote: »The news papers are trying to scare the crap out of people.
How are they able to sleep at night is beyond me lol.
I've managed IT projects, and with the exception of the fancy graphics, that list could be used for rolling out new servers, with a few minor edits. The main differences is that in a server room we don't want water, and we try to get rid of our deceased as soon as we get replacement parts, if not before. Everything I've seen so far about this looks like pretty standard project planning and risk management/contingency plans. Now, if there's a schedule that says "Shoot and bury 5,000,000 people on August 23rd" with resources assigned to the task I'd be a bit more concerned.0 -
The children were being treated for normal seasonal flu but Dr Thompson said the findings would extend to the current swine flu pandemic.tallaght01 wrote: »A) You're talking about tamiflu, rather than the vaccine.Yes I am, but also asking why order such HUGE amounts of vaccine when quote"WHO said most patients infected with swine flu worldwide recover within a week without any medical treatment" That paper from oxford never suggests that tamiflu shouldn't be given to children. That's a dangerous interpretation.They said it shouldn't be given to kids with mild illness. In pretty much all countries, only people with moderate to severe illness are given tamiflu.
Quote:Dr Carl Heneghan, a GP and clinical lecturer at Oxford University, said the current policy of giving Tamiflu for mild illness was an “inappropriate strategy”.
He added: “The downside of the harms outweigh the one-day reduction in symptomatic benefits.”
C) Britain are not giving tamiflu to all suspected of having the illness. It's offered to people at the GP's discretion, which is what a lot of countries did in their treatment phase (which the UK is still in). That trial from Oxfors that you talk about concluded "Their effects on the incidence of serious complications, and on the current A/H1N1 influenza strain remain to be determined.". This is different to saying it doesn't work.The patients in this trial had seasonal flu, as opposed to swine flu. But one of the reasons for giving people tamiflu early in the pandemic is because it makes people less contagious. There is only a brief menion of this in the study. We also give it to prevent pneumonia (the bad side effect of swine flu and the cause of swine flu deaths) but this study says "none of the studies (That wer eincluded in this paper) was sufficiently powered to determine the effects of neuraminidase inhibitors on serious complication of influenza (such as pneumonia or admission to hospital)". Just because it's from Oxford doesn't mean it's important. These guys were a group of GPs who published a nice paper. But there's nothing much new in it. They reported 1 in 20 kids developing vomiting after tamiflu. No mention that I could find of dehydration and hospitalisation.
“I don’t think we have got any reason to think our results would be any different,” he said.
“The current swine flu is generally a mild flu illness...it does not seem that different from current seasonal flu.
“We would be happy to say our results apply to the current swine flu strain.”
He said children with mild symptoms should be treated in the same way as if they had any other mild flu – with drinks to cool high temperatures and rest.
Dr Heneghan said the only benefit found in the study was that children were back to normal half a day to one day earlier if taking Tamiflu or Relenza.
He said his advice to GPs was “not to rely on Tamiflu as a treatment to reduce complications” or to think of it as a “magic bullet”.
He warned that widespread use of Tamiflu could result in the flu becoming resistant to the drug.
“What is a problem going forward – like with antibiotics – is you run into a resistance issue."0 -
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