What are Traffic Lights there for???

petermijackson

I would be interested in know people's opinion's on traffic lights.

I have been cycling to work now for the last couple of months and while I can get over the slow cyclists (as everybody needs to go at their own pace), there is one thing that annoys and that is other cyclists not obeying traffic lights. While I stop at traffic lights, the guy or gal that I have just overtaken someway back the road appears beside me and wobble their way through the red light.

While this is not just annoying for me as I am trying to be the law abiding citizen, do these people not realise how dangerous it is?

Has anyone ever seen the Gardai speak to anybody about behaviour on their bicycle?

seamus

petermijackson wrote: »

I would be interested in know people's opinion's on traffic lights.

I have been cycling to work now for the last couple of months and while I can get over the slow cyclists (as everybody needs to go at their own pace), there is one thing that annoys and that is other cyclists not obeying traffic lights. While I stop at traffic lights, the guy or gal that I have just overtaken someway back the road appears beside me and wobble their way through the red light.

While this is not just annoying for me as I am trying to be the law abiding citizen, do these people not realise how dangerous it is?

It's highly irritating, but you're not a Garda (I assume), so any attempt to do or say anything is likely to be met with a scoff or a punch in the nose.

Just look after your own behaviour, set a good example, and let other people worry about themselves. If they get creamed through a light, darwin in action.

FWIW, anyone who breaks lights in the course of "the race" is immediately disqualified. So don't get too down about them passing you

Has anyone ever seen the Gardai speak to anybody about behaviour on their bicycle?

Once. I was on George's St waiting to turn onto Dame St. The ped lights were green (meaning that all roads were stopped) and a guy comes flying from Olympia direction down Dame street, through the lights, past a Garda on a bicycle. Garda gives chase (didn't have to push himself that hard), while the moron breaks the ped lights at Central Bank *and* on College Green, right in front of the Garda. He looked altogether confused when I passed him - there seems to be this general belief (among drivers and cyclists it must be said) that it's legal for bikes to ignore the lights so long as there's nothing coming.

Caroline_ie

There has been many discussions about the Red Light Jumpers on this forum.
I personally stop at lights, I usually go quite fast on the fixie and on a daily basis, I do get passed by wobbly POBs and I have now adopted the 'Meh' attitude. I just overtake them again aftewards...
I happens that on a early sunday morning, when i am on my bike, and there is no car whatsoever and the lights don't turn green, I will look and cross the road. But in traffic, never.
Anyway. I don't really care about RLJPOBs, they're just idiots to me.

Lumen

RLJ is endemic in Ireland, with cars as well as bikes.

On most car journeys during commuting hours I see other cars approaching an amber from 50m away and just cruising on through the red. Then there is the yellow-box blocking, lack of indication, driving whilst holding mobile etc.

At least the RLJOBs are mostly only endangering themselves.

Just relax and bask in your moral superiority. Or hit them in the face with a u-lock.

Jawgap

Traffic lights are there to regulate your cycling:-

Red = stop

Green = go / keep going / spinning / cruising

Amber = sprint for all your worth!!

tunney

petermijackson wrote: »

I would be interested in know people's opinion's on traffic lights.

I have been cycling to work now for the last couple of months and while I can get over the slow cyclists (as everybody needs to go at their own pace), there is one thing that annoys and that is other cyclists not obeying traffic lights. While I stop at traffic lights, the guy or gal that I have just overtaken someway back the road appears beside me and wobble their way through the red light.

While this is not just annoying for me as I am trying to be the law abiding citizen, do these people not realise how dangerous it is?

Has anyone ever seen the Gardai speak to anybody about behaviour on their bicycle?

Quite often its safer for the cyclist to break a red light.

Micilin Muc

How about cyclists that don't stop at the white line?

I very rarely get overtaken by other cyclists, but when I stop at the white line, other cyclists will overtake me and park right in front of me, or as close to the junction as they can sometimes. When the lights turn green again, I pass them out by the time they have two pushes of the pedals! I don't understand them!

Jawgap

tunney wrote: »

Quite often its safer for the cyclist to break a red light.

these threads are surely one of the great triumverate of threads (along with helmets and headphones) that will ensure this forum will never lack something to discuss:)

I've done my fair share of RLJing but I've stopped because I think it's a bad habit to get into that leads you to jumping that one red light you shouldn't.

Jawgap

Micilin Muc wrote: »

How about cyclists that don't stop at the white line?

I very rarely get overtaken by other cyclists, but when I stop at the white line, other cyclists will overtake me and park right in front of me, or as close to the junction as they can sometimes. When the lights turn green again, I pass them out by the time they have two pushes of the pedals! I don't understand them!

I'd say this is completely different. I usually go past the white line especially if there are HGVs or buses at the junction - it's the only way to make sure that those type of vehicles can see you. You need to get out of their blind spots.

Tigerbaby

other cyclists jumping lights, cutting me up etc = Chill

RTL = stop ( except if going uphill into a force 10 gale on a wet night and no-one else around )

cars / lorries cutting me up etc etc = Chill.

Earphones/headphones = dont use em. your ears are your rear view mirror.

To maintain sanity and still enjoy the freedom of cycling it is imperative to have a chilled attitude. That means ignoring other cycists/drivers. Just keep yourself safe and smile. Yer getting fresh air and excercise .. how cool is that ?

Bin cycling 30 years in Dublin. Have seen it all. Relax is the best attitude.

Stay safe and careful in your cycling without become fearful and paranoid.

n-dawg

I treat red lights like a yield sign. I will slow down. Nothing coming I'll go, something there I'll go behind it or stop....

Don't really see the problem I don't think I'm even putting myself in danger.

petethedrummer

I used to be an obeyer, now I'm a jumper. Its pretty simple to get through a junction safely using your eyes and your common sense, regardless of the colour of the light.

WicklowRacer

Same. Always slow down to see whats happening... ped X and turn left, cruise on by if nothings coming. Turn right and straight I usually stop.

ednwireland

petethedrummer wrote: »

I used to be an obeyer, now I'm a jumper. Its pretty simple to get through a junction safely using your eyes and your common sense, regardless of the colour of the light.

still illegal

rottenhat

petethedrummer wrote: »

I used to be an obeyer, now I'm a jumper. Its pretty simple to get through a junction safely using your eyes and your common sense, regardless of the colour of the light.

For god's sake Pete, think of the children.

Lumen

rottenhat wrote: »

For god's sake Pete, think of the children.

Easy RH, blasphemy is also illegal, or will be shortly.

Chips Lovell

tunney wrote: »

Quite often its safer for the cyclist to break a red light.

I seriously doubt it.

tunney

el tonto wrote: »

I seriously doubt it.

depends on the light and the situation but yes it is often safer to break the light.

blorg

Micilin Muc wrote: »

I very rarely get overtaken by other cyclists, but when I stop at the white line, other cyclists will overtake me and park right in front of me, or as close to the junction as they can sometimes. When the lights turn green again, I pass them out by the time they have two pushes of the pedals! I don't understand them!

Drives me mad too. U-Lock in the face is the only solution.

petermijackson

tunney wrote: »

depends on the light and the situation but yes it is often safer to break the light.

Some good feedback from all sides.....just wondering how it is sometimes safer to jump a redlight???

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

Drives me mad too. U-Lock in the face is the only solution.

You could to be a bit more measured with your aggression. I'd favour sitting on their wheel taunting them about how slow they are.

"Come on, come on, my granny can pedal faster than this and she died in 1996".

Jawgap

blorg wrote: »

Drives me mad too. U-Lock in the face is the only solution.

Hmmm, not sure about that - wouldn't you just end up with blood and snot all over your lock?

I'd prefer if there was some extendable device available that you deploy and just jam in their wheels:) (JOKING!!!!)

It's annoying, but probably something that individuals will make their mind up. Personally, I don't think it's the cleverest thing to do on a bike and I'd question how much time you actually save by doing it.

Idleater

cyclists need to start doing the bike hierarchy like motorcyclists where smaller bikes must wait behind or allow a bigger/noisier bike through to the top of the queue at lights.
This hierarchy displays to cars that a group of motorists can organise themselves and not delay anyone when the lights change.
Cyclists not obeying the hierarchy should count as double points in "the race".

Jawgap

Lumen wrote: »

You could to be a bit more measured with your aggression. I'd favour sitting on their wheel taunting them about how slow they are.

"Come on, come on, my granny can pedal faster than this and she died in 1996".

I wouldn't be so blatant in my taunting - I'd sit there tutting and muttering "Jaysus!!" everytime they touched the brakes or changed gear - then freewheel by them when overtaking while either looking at my nails or at their bike and shaking my head!

rottenhat

Jawgap wrote: »

I'd prefer if there was some extendable device available that you deploy and just jam in their wheels:) (JOKING!!!!)

You don't think I lug that thing around just in case I get a flat, do you?

kmick

I dont care about red light jumping mainly but when people jump a red and there is pedestrians crossing that makes me mad. Especially when it is older people or kids who have no sense of what you need to do to cross the road i.e. even though the pedestrian light is green you still better keep a watch out for lunatics on bikes and in cars/trucks. Since I believe in Karma I accept the fact that one of these days they are getting whats coming to them.

petethedrummer

ednwireland wrote: »

still illegal

And? So is jaywalking, but I think thats perfectly acceptable as long as you do it safely.

I think traffic lights should be fought at every turn. I prefer the shared use approach. Less lines, lights and rules and more cop on.

Here's a video. I can't believe I'm in agreement with some London cabbies.

Chips Lovell

I don´t think I´ve ever been in a situtation where I´ve found it safer to break a red.

is_that_so

Still remember that trip to the traffic school with the big friendly Garda and us pedalling around and stopping at red lights. While I can see why some claim it's safe, it's illegal, encourages all sorts of other bad behaviour and is definitely not an example to give a child. It's also not very different to the aforementioned car driver who decides at 50m that it just would not be safe to brake at an amber light. Both are road users and subject to the same rules.

Making up new rules because you think it's safe is a recipe for disaster. Then again there are some cyclists whose road behaviour and ability to maintain control of their "vehicle" is worse even than that scourge of all road users, the pedestrian.

Also seeing as you're running on 1 HP it's also a good chance to get a bit of a breather for some of the less fit "horses".

Tawfee

petethedrummer wrote: »

I prefer the shared use approach.

here's a nice (unedited) excerpt from that article:

"Asshorn says that since this part was finished, she's had drivers actually stop, smile at her and signal for her to cross the street".

i know, i know, i should grow up, but that brightened up my day...:)

Jumpy

el tonto wrote: »

I don´t think I´ve ever been in a situtation where I´ve found it safer to break a red.

You havent seen me trying to clip back in.

seamus

petethedrummer wrote: »

And? So is jaywalking, but I think thats perfectly acceptable as long as you do it safely.

The point being Pete that there are plenty of situations in which it's perfectly safe to ignore a red light when you're driving a car/bus/motorbike as well. So why don't we?

Because ;
1. We're all human and liable to make mistakes and go when it's not safe
2. Most of our species are idiots.

While you might think it's safe for *you* to break the red, there are 10 others lacking the cop or presence of mind to do it safely.

A young Chinese man died this year after breaking a red light. I'm pretty sure he thought that it was perfectly safe and he had used common sense and had performed adequate safety checks.

So how in God's name do you propose that we decide who is "allowed" to break reds and who isn't - who has the cop on to do it safely and who doesn't? Or doesn't it just make more sense if everyone obeys them and avoids the chance of making a mistake and going when they shouldn't?

tunney

seamus wrote: »

The point being Pete that there are plenty of situations in which it's perfectly safe to ignore a red light when you're driving a car/bus/motorbike as well. So why don't we?

Because ;
1. We're all human and liable to make mistakes and go when it's not safe
2. Most of our species are idiots.

While you might think it's safe for *you* to break the red, there are 10 others lacking the cop or presence of mind to do it safely.

A young Chinese man died this year after breaking a red light. I'm pretty sure he thought that it was perfectly safe and he had used common sense and had performed adequate safety checks.

So how in God's name do you propose that we decide who is "allowed" to break reds and who isn't - who has the cop on to do it safely and who doesn't? Or doesn't it just make more sense if everyone obeys them and avoids the chance of making a mistake and going when they shouldn't?

There are certain junctions and certain lights that i will break and continue to break, whether or not guards are present, my safety first regardless of the legal position and i'm quite happy to defend my actions to a guard.

Lumen

If you can't cope with yielding to traffic then you shouldn't ever cross the road except at ped crossings.

Therefore RLJing itself is not a safety issue, only unsafe RLJing, i.e. like any other thing in life it should probably be done with concern for self preservation.

Which says nothing about legality or courtesy.

Gavin

tunney wrote: »

There are certain junctions and certain lights that i will break and continue to break, whether or not guards are present, my safety first regardless of the legal position and i'm quite happy to defend my actions to a guard.

Where are the junctions Tunney ? I suspect it's lack of confidence cycling in traffic and lack of experience which makes you think breaking a red light is necessary.

Tayto2000

seamus wrote: »

A young Chinese man died this year after breaking a red light. I'm pretty sure he thought that it was perfectly safe and he had used common sense and had performed adequate safety checks.

I thought he was killed by a left turning HGV? Being stuck on the inside of a HGV that has gone over the line and is blocking the cyclist ASL is a good time to reconsider whether it might be worth moving out of the way, regardless of the red light...

I'm a RLJer I admit it: I usually treat a red where I'm turning left as a flashing amber - if there's no vehicles or peds, I'll roll through at walking pace.

This is the flipside though:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/387025/cyclist-who-jumped-red-light-riding-like-a-bat-out-of-hell-jailed-for-killing-pedestrian.html

Lumen

Gavin wrote: »

Where are the junctions Tunney ? I suspect it's lack of confidence cycling in traffic and lack of experience which makes you think breaking a red light is necessary.

Nietzschean

Gavin wrote: »

Where are the junctions Tunney ? I suspect it's lack of confidence cycling in traffic and lack of experience which makes you think breaking a red light is necessary.

Hehe, i somehow doubt Tunney lacks confidence...

And speaking of times its safer, heading east along the canal where you can take the right to meet up with sussex road its probably safer to break the light before it. I generally don't break lights on my road bike, but honestly I'd say its more out of some sort of smugness than any sensible reason, god knows i used to break plenty when commuting(i mostly just cycle on road bike now...).

READYBREK

I've been stopped twice at the bottom of phoenix park, there are light but in fariness its looks like a sliproad with lights!

The Garda(motorbike) advised as a cyclists I operate by the same bye-laws as motorists and can therefore get points on my licence.

Can anyone advise if true?

Also, what if i dont have a drivers licence?

souter

el tonto wrote: »

I don´t think I´ve ever been in a situtation where I´ve found it safer to break a red.

There's one and only one light I break regularly. 4 way junction on Griffith Ave and Grace Park Rd, heading east. Generally pedestrians crossing Grace Park, rarely Griffith Ave, so on green man, providing no pedestrians or at giving them a wide berth I slowly cross the junction.
This gives me enough of a start to safely filter into postion for my right turn down Philipsburgh Ave. Not doing this means doing the same in the middle of fairly dense and fast moving traffic.
Yes, I can do it and I do if no pedestrian activated the crossing (or if a cop is present - coward!), but surely the first option is safer for me and less inconvenience for the cars?

Going the other way I never jump the light, there is no equivalent safety excuse.

Hm, lot of special pleading there. Maybe I'll obey this light to regain the moral summit rather than just the foothills.

BeerNut

Tayto2000 wrote: »

I thought he was killed by a left turning HGV?

From what I can gather he was killed going straight by a truck which also going straight, across him, and which was probably obscured to his view by the hump of the bridge. One or both of them was not heeding the lights.

Lumen

There's a junction near my house which I regularly jump on quiet weekend spins. I'm convinced it's solely activated by a loop in the road, because no matter how many tricks I attempt (placing a cleat on different parts of the loop, hopping up and down, spinning the cranks) the light stays red, for ever.

It could be that I have a warped sense of time and all my impatient tutting, cleating, hopping and spinning happens within the space of 15 seconds. I do drink a lot of coffee before weekend spins.

tunney

Gavin wrote: »

Where are the junctions Tunney ? I suspect it's lack of confidence cycling in traffic and lack of experience which makes you think breaking a red light is necessary.

Yes I'm very new to cycling and only just got my bike in the bike2work scheme. I got a lovely Trek, very nice and shiny, its a "compact" whatever that means. Had to get a Trek cause thats what Lance and Alberto ride and they are my heros.

blorg

tunney wrote: »

Yes I'm very new to cycling and only just got my bike in the bike2work scheme. I got a lovely Trek, very nice and shiny, its a "compact" whatever that means. Had to get a Trek cause thats what Lance and Alberto ride and they are my heros.

Did someone mention Lance?

Lumen

According to that picture, Lance only stops for a Bud Light.

tomasrojo

Lumen wrote: »

There's a junction near my house which I regularly jump on quiet weekend spins. I'm convinced it's solely activated by a loop in the road, because no matter how many tricks I attempt (placing a cleat on different parts of the loop, hopping up and down, spinning the cranks) the light stays red, for ever.

The lights at the top of Steeven's Lane in Dublin when I'm waiting to turn right down Bow Lane West seem to take about five minutes to change. It's the only set of lights I'm tempted to disobey. It's just ridiculously long. No-one should be left waiting that long to cross a minor junction.

Gavin

tunney wrote: »

Yes I'm very new to cycling and only just got my bike in the bike2work scheme. I got a lovely Trek, very nice and shiny, its a "compact" whatever that means. Had to get a Trek cause thats what Lance and Alberto ride and they are my heros.

Sure you can cycle a bike in 'races' or whatever, but that don't make you a commuter warrior Tunney. Where are these complex junctions ?

Actually, if you want, I'm sure I could cycle with you one day and show you how to do it.

blorg

Gavin wrote: »

Sure you can cycle a bike in 'races' or whatever, but that don't make you a commuter warrior Tunney. Where are these complex junctions ?

He doesn't cycle in proper races, only in "triathlons". Like this guy

tunney

Gavin wrote: »

Sure you can cycle a bike in 'races' or whatever, but that don't make you a commuter warrior Tunney. Where are these complex junctions ?

Actually, if you want, I'm sure I could cycle with you one day and show you how to do it.

Would you please? That would be great.

tomasrojo

Lumen wrote: »

There's a junction near my house which I regularly jump on quiet weekend spins. I'm convinced it's solely activated by a loop in the road, because no matter how many tricks I attempt (placing a cleat on different parts of the loop, hopping up and down, spinning the cranks) the light stays red, for ever.

I read, I think in Forester's Effective Cycling, that in the U.S. if a red light will not change it becomes legally equivalent to a Stop sign. That makes sense, I think. You shouldn't have to wait on a deserted road for a car to come along and trigger the induction loop.

eightyfish

What are these "traffic lights" you're all on about?