City jet Apprentice engineers

Rithim

Hi all,

My son is applying for the above position with cityjet.He done well in his leaving cert and has a fair chance of getting in.
I was wondering if anyone knows when qualified thru Cityjet, would he be a licenced engineer, ie holding IAA approved licences as opposed to some Aircraft engine Mechanics at certain engine/aircraft facilities who are not licenced.

It is probably harder for Aircraft mechanics/engineers to progress in Aviation career field if they don't hold a licence.

Any info particularly on City jet Apprentice engineers would be much appreciated as it could help my son in making a decision.

Thanks

Grease Monkey

Hi Rithim,good to hear your lad is applying,it will consist of an aptitude test first,then one or two interviews i'd imagine as there will be a lot of prople going for very few places!If he gets the apprenticeship it will be the standard four year apprenticeship run through fas,split into 7 phases,phase 1 about 2weeks intro,phase 2 is 9 months down in the fas center in shannon,phase 3 on the job with cityjet for 14months hands on,phase 4 is 6 months in DIT bolton street,phase 5 on the job for 9-12 months with cityjet,phase 6 is 3 months in DIT and phase 7 about 3months on the job with cityjet again,in phases 2,4,6 is when you are thought the modules for which our required for ur EASA licence A B1 or B2,at the end of these phases you sit the Easa exam for each module,so your son will come out of his time with an Aircraft Engineer Licence,it takes 5 years in total with the experience needed before you can physiacally get the licence,good apprenticeship and interesting,any more questions dont hesitate to ask

Rithim

Thanks a million, Grease Monkey. Two questions. About the shannon thing; As it's so far away from cityjet's base of operations, is accomadation provided?
And, about the licenses; Are these licenses held in in high esteem in the aviation industry i.e. for further career advancement?

Thanks again.

Grease Monkey

Phase 2 down in Shannon is run in the Fas center in the industrial estate by the airport,cityjet wont be paying your son during this time,he will be on the Fas books for this 9 month period(oct-july) He will recieve a weekly wage from Fas,I take it he isnt from the shannon or limerick region so he will be entitled to the rent allowance on top of his wage.Weekly wage is about 170euro+75 rent allowance,there's plenty of digs in the shannon,ennis and limerick areas which you will get a place for 30-50 euro a week!The Easa licence he will come out with in the end is the highest licence for any engineer in europe,its the standard licence for europe so your soon can work all over the continent!Any more questions dont hesitate,glad i can help

Celtic Mech

Rithim,

Just to emphasize something here...Cityjet/FAS/Bolton Street will educate your son to the required levels for him to be in a position to sit EASA Exams...BUT this does not guarantee anything. You dont finish up your apprenticeship with a Licence...its up to your son to do the hard work required for this. The only thing that is insisted on/essential is to pass the exams laid down by FAS, thus enabling you to pass your apprenticeship and be considered a tradesman with a National Craft Certificate.
When you obtain your National Craft Certificate, you are a Qualified Aircraft Mechanic and thats it. It is your EASA PART 66 B1 or B2 Licence that qualifies you as an Aircraft Engineer. In all fairness, the FAS exams are not the hardest things to pass. Its the EASA Exams that are the tough ones. I've been there and bought the t-shirt and have a B1 licence and with 2 more short exams i will be in possession of both B1 and B2 exams.
If i could give one piece of advice to pass onto your son...Have the craic and all that during his apprenticeship. He will meet some great guys and learn such a lot..But tell him when it comes to the EASA exams to put the head down, do the work required and put best efforts into the exams. His work will pay off.
All the best for him in the apptitude process and interview stage.

Grease Monkey

Well said Celtic Mech

Rithim

Thanks guys for all the help. Just one more question and this may not be the place to ask this.
Are the licenced engineers on a higher rate than the mechanics with the basic trade?

Celtic Mech

Rithim...Yes. As a licenced guy you are on a higher rate than an unlicenced guy. Some places have 2 different payscales for both, others pay approval payments and licence pay as the difference between both. It really depends on the company working for. There are chances to go contracting around the world as both unlicenced and licenced. Its not unusal to see the Licenced guys rates as double that of unlicenced guys.

Just for info...When you do get your licence, that is far from the end of things. A licence (B1 or B2) is basically useless by itself and doesnt entitle the holder to do anything. To become "useful", the holder will have to do Type Courses, that on completion, will allow the holder to have their licence endorsed for a particular Aircraft(s). I.e. Airbus A340 with CFM 56 Engines. This will allow the holder to be in a position to issue a Certificate of Release to Service, provided he/she is approved by their comy to do so.

seanyleary

i am an engineer with cityjet at the moment, Good training, but at the end of the day its up to your son to come out of his time with his Easa B1 or B2. A good leaving cert wont really count for much if i am honest, I started my training with 400+ leaving cert guys and not may ( if any at all ) lasted past the first year in a hanger. First year app get all the s*** but it does get better.

Rithim

Thanks guys.Talk soon

Open Up

Did your son have any luck with it?

Rithim

Got through the aptitude test and has 1st interview on friday.

Open Up

Fair play to him. I wasn't so successfull myself. Pity they're just going on the aptitude tests. I'm an Aircraft Systems engineering graduate from IT Carlow. Guess that stands for nothing...

Grease Monkey

Just a little heads up for the interview Rithim, make sure he knows all the flying controls on the aircraft,elevators,ailerons and rudder and what they do,the difference between AC and DC electric supplies and frequency,only a small bit of info is required,little bit about the company which he'l find on cityjet.com,also know how the jet engine works,suck,squeeze,bang,blow etc,hope this helps.

Rithim

Sorry 'open up' to hear you did'nt get through.And Thanks 'Greasemonkey' for the Gen.I am fairly well up on the workings of the engine so I'll run through all that with him. I 'll get him to look for the other info.

Just one point if you feel like giving me an answer as this could be a contentious issue.Is there a feeling of 'Hierarchy' for want of a better word between Aircraft engineers would have licences and the Aircraft mechanics(trade only).Some facilities employ car mechanics.I know that some of these mechanics that had licences got up the ranks quicker.

Thanks

ScabbyLeg

Funny you should mention that Rithim, I can't answer your question but I wondered when I first read the thread title how people in the business distinguish between third level qualified engineers (say with a B.Eng) and a licenced engineer (say a B-man).

Obviously different lines of work, but what's the relationship between engineers and engineers generally like from anyone's experience?

Sorry, don't mean to hijack the topic or anything, just interested since it caught my attention!

paa9090

Hey any one else hear nothing? i sent an email on mon and tues i was told that i would hear in the week to ten days?

Celtic Mech

Rithim wrote: »

Sorry 'open up' to hear you did'nt get through.And Thanks 'Greasemonkey' for the Gen.I am fairly well up on the workings of the engine so I'll run through all that with him. I 'll get him to look for the other info.

Just one point if you feel like giving me an answer as this could be a contentious issue.Is there a feeling of 'Hierarchy' for want of a better word between Aircraft engineers would have licences and the Aircraft mechanics(trade only).Some facilities employ car mechanics.I know that some of these mechanics that had licences got up the ranks quicker.

Thanks

In my opinion, some guys are happy to be mechanics and do not want to become licenced. You have to remember, with your Licence comes a Serious amount of responsibility and if reqd, you can be prosecuted to the full letter of the law. One example of this...We all remember the horrific event of the COncorde crash a few years back..seeing it on sky news with a trail of flames and crashing near/into the hotel after take off. 3 or 4 minutes prior to Concorde taking off, a DC-10 took off, but a small piece of metal fell from the #3 engine. This was fabricated by a guy in the States and he signed for its installation etc as a Licenced Engineer. Unfortunately, the piece wasnt from an Approved Source (i.e. Self Fabricated) and also not made from correct material...Bottom line is, as a result of neglegence, this guy is now having the full letter of the law thrown at him and facing Manslaughter cases for the lives lost.
Sorry for going off topic a slight bit...but its examples as such that can deter some gus from becoming Licenced and with it, ultimately responsible in some cases. It depends on the person themselves...I personally have no problem with the pressure it brings, responsibility etc, where-as some of my colleagues are quite happy to be just Mechanics and if they are happy with it, then thats all that matters.

There is no real Hierarchy in our business at what we do. We are all there for one thing...to keep aircraft flying safely. I would, though think, as guys are trying to progress and do exams, then they would be jealous seeing licenced guys and what they have as its all an uphill battle for them.

Rithim

Thanks Celtic Mech for that.

Yeah I have a fair bit of info now.My son went for interview yesterday and it went very well.He will know next week I think or maybe its a second interview.Anyway will keep you posted.

arsenalia

Hi guys i also applied to city jet about a week ago and shannon aerospace after been unsuccesful in the AT at air atlanta, i wonder does any one know if they(cityjet) will be taking on people again at this time of the year? and do they select people for Aptitude Test based on Cv layout or Contents?

Skuxx

arsenalia wrote: »

Hi guys i also applied to city jet about a week ago and shannon aerospace after been unsuccesful in the AT at air atlanta, i wonder does any one know if they(cityjet) will be taking on people again at this time of the year? and do they select people for Aptitude Test based on Cv layout or Contents?

Yeah, I saw in last sundays paper Citijet are looking for Avionics Engineers and also aprentice pilots! I'm an aprentice in Shannon Aerospace and I know they aren't taking on anymore until November so if you get no where with Citijet might be worth getting on to Aerospace around September

arsenalia

Ok Thanks mate, bu would you know any other companies looking for apprentice @ the moment like.. i have searched the net there seems to be only city jet @ the moment. Hows the shannon one goin for you? i heard it only lasts 2 years as opposed to the 4 other companies require. Ive send a CV to shannon abt last week, will they still write me back u tink if they are looking for people? an around what period were you called for AT and interview when you first applied
Wb

arsenalia

Hi guys, got called for Aptitest @ city jet, just wondering any1 know what kind of things youll be asked to do in the Test or questions youll be asked; i no it wont be mechanical unlike shannon, Air atlanta ...
Thanks all

richierichballs

I sent my CV into Cityjet last week as they where advertising for apprentices,
They got back to me today asking me to do an aptitude test on Tuesday.

What should I expect guys? Is there anything I should look up?
I am just after completing Phase 4 of my electrical apprenticeship so Motors are pretty fresh in my head.

All advise would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

arsenalia

hey richier rich i just got called as well .. i also dnt no wat to expect but i suspect it my be all electrical stuff lik Dc and Ac motors, Im hoping more people will shed some light ..btw whah college did u do your apprentice if u dnt mind me asking mate.
wb

jimbis

Only heard about this on friday (final day for entries) so i emailed my CV into them.

Got a phone call today asking could i go out for the aptitude test tomorrow! I also have no clue what to expect...
See ya's there lads!:D

aircraft tech trng

As an aircraft engineer myself for over 20yrs I'd like to give some advise. I can’t help you guys with the AT as I don’t know what you will get. Depending on the company procedure you will initially be mechanics for a period of time before you are eligible to sit for the engineer’s exams. As mechanics you will be the engineers’ hands, carrying out tasks, to ensure the aircraft is serviceable for further flights. The engineer will be responsible to ensure the work that has been done by yourselves is in accordance with the Maintenance Manual (this is the book which gives instructions as to how to carry out any maintenance task on the aircraft It is a legal requirement to follow these instructions). Any parts to be changed are listed in the IPC (Illustrated parts catalogue which again you have to follow to make sure the correct part is used). Just a little heads up. After the work is done, whatever it is from an aircraft wheel change to an engine replacement the work is certified by the engineer which basically means that all the work done is in accordance with the aircraft maintenance manual & all parts used are in accordance with the IPC. When the work is completed, before the aircraft can fly the engineer must certify that the work is done in accordance to both manuals and a CRS which is a certificate release to service is made. Without a CRS the aircraft cannot fly. It is a responsible job BUT as long as you follow the instructions and comply with them there is nothing to worry about. Id like to introduce you the the ENGINEERS CERTIFERS OATH which states
.
"Upon My Honour, I swear that I shall hold in sacred trust the rights and privileges conferred upon me as a certifier. Knowing full well that the safety and lives of others are dependent upon my skill and judgement, I shall never knowingly subject others to risks which I would not be willing to assume for myself, or those dear to me. In discharging this trust, I pledge myself never to undertake work or approve work which I feel to be beyond the limits of my knowledge, nor shall I allow any non-certified superior to persuade me to approve aircraft or equipment as airworthy against my better judgement, nor shall I permit my judgement to be influenced by money or other personal gain, nor shall I pass as airworthy aircraft or equipment about which I am in doubt, either as a result of direct inspection or uncertainty regarding the ability of others who have worked on it to accomplish their work satisfactorily. I realise the grave responsibility which is mine as a certifier, to exercise my judgement on the airworthiness of aircraft and equipment. I therefore, pledge unyielding adherence to these ideals for the advancement of aviation and for the dignity of my vocation".

If you would like to know more them you are welcome to visit my website which myself and 2 other engineers set up to give guidance and help to those studying for engineering exams. There is no catch, no charge. We just want to help out. I do advise for those who have no clue to aircraft maintenance to visit the FAQ page http://www.aircrafttechtrng.com

Naked Lepper

what did people think of the aptitude test?

id imagine theres 100s of applicants if theyre doing tests over a few days?

i applied in 2003 and there was a full house for the tests, and that was back in the boom

unfortunately i didnt get past that stage

jimbis

There was ALOT of people there today! :eek: So many that we had to double up on some tables.

The test was okay, bit of a wake up call for myself as i suffered a bit on the maths but flew through the rest. 10 years since ive been in school doing any sort of maths so the books will be coming out to brush up on it .

PaulLFC96

I thought the aptitude test was quite tricky. Thought the maths was fine but the last section with the sequences was tough!

richierichballs

Thought the test was a little tricky, couldn't believe the amount of people at the test.
I was at the 9.30am one, and I was shocked when the speaker at the end announced they where doing another one at 5.30pm that evening!

Anyone know how many Apprentices they are actually looking to employ?

Sterling Archer

I was in the 2 o' clock one... serious amount of lads there, having to double up the tables was kinda funny... Got some shock when i open the test book.. but actually sort of enjoyed the test.. getting to stretch out the brain muscles

Vitamen H

Usually about four apprentices are taken on

aircraft tech trng

Eg of PHYSICS AT Questions http://www.aircrafttechtrng.com/MOD%2002%20MCQ%20JULY%202010.pdf from a UK AT paper

PaulLFC96

Anyone hear anything yet.....??

richierichballs

PaulLFC96 wrote: »

Anyone hear anything yet.....??

Heard nothing yet myself, They said after the test, they would let us know either way "Within the next 7-10 days."

Today being the tenth day, I have not heard anything and I tried to ting the office at 3 o' clock but there was no answer.

arsenalia

Hi all im just wondering has anyone who went for the cityjet apti test been called 4 interview? ,just curious as the ten days they promised has already elapsed

Claasman

Does anyone know if they hire every year for the apprentice positions?

seanyleary

yes rhey have been hiring between 4 and 6 for about 8 or 9 years now, now that fls are gone which used to take on about 40 a year its proving very hard to get into. i did hear aer arann are take on some this year.

naimader

hi is anyone going on AT in August this year?

Irishstabber

naimader wrote: »

hi is anyone going on AT in August this year?

2nd August 9:30 for me. What about yourself?

Diar

2nd August at 14:00 for me.

John.

9.30 2nd August for me too

arsenalia

i am going any one with any links to what type of questions might come ou?

navangang

Diar wrote: »

2nd August at 14:00 for me.

Same:)..What kind of questions wil be asked,like will it be aviation and that or physics questions??

John.

how did people find the test?

naimader

Irishstabber wrote: »

2nd August 9:30 for me. What about yourself?

me too 160 questions numerical technical physical and even dont know what more.. omg

zega

John. wrote: »

how did people find the test?

Only section i didnt finish was the first set,missed about 8 on it.Think i did pretty well,but considering its 300 for 20 interview spots "well" might not be good enough.

You?

John.

zega wrote: »

John. wrote: »

how did people find the test?

Only section i didnt finish was the first set,missed about 8 on it.Think i did pretty well,but considering its 300 for 20 interview spots "well" might not be good enough.

You?

Think I did alright.. Found the last section with the shapes a bit hard.. Mechanical section was the easiest I thought.

Fingers crossed for an interview!!

Maztech

Hi guys.

Anyone hear anything back from Cityjet yet? I was at the 2nd August p.m test. Nothing so far but fingers crossed.!

John.

Maztech wrote: »

Hi guys.

Anyone hear anything back from Cityjet yet? I was at the 2nd August p.m test. Nothing so far but fingers crossed.!

Nothing yet myself