Interesting irish historical facts

meathstevie

Lawrence of Arabia's origins apparently lead back to Westmeath (close to Delvin ) . The result of a fling between a servant and the lord of the manor.

R.Dub.Fusilier

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Did'nt Christopher Columbus visit Galway a few years before his voyage to the Americas.

he had two irish men with him and i think one Englishman. i read it in an old book about queen Isabella of Spain

emanresu

mace wrote: »

• Henry the Eigth appointed his 10 illegitimate son as Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, the highest post of authority in the country under the king.

. . .
his 10 year old illegitimate son

• The Choctaw Tribe of native americans were so moved by stories of the Irish suffering during the great famine that they sent in 1847 $170 as aid

. . .
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw
"Midway through the Great Irish Famine (1845-1849, a group of Choctaws collected $710 (although many articles say the original amount was $170 after a misprint in Angi Debo's The Rise and Fall of the Choctaw Nation) and sent it to help starving Irish men, women and children. "It had been just 16 years since the Choctaw people had experienced the Trail of Tears, and they had faced starvation ... It was an amazing gesture. By today's standards, it might be a million dollars" according to Judy Allen, editor of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma's newspaper, Bishinik, based at the Oklahoma Choctaw tribal headquarters in Durant, Oklahoma."

MarchDub

emanresu wrote: »

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From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw
"Midway through the Great Irish Famine (1845-1849, a group of Choctaws collected $710 (although many articles say the original amount was $170 after a misprint in Angi Debo's The Rise and Fall of the Choctaw Nation) and sent it to help starving Irish men, women and children. "It had been just 16 years since the Choctaw people had experienced the Trail of Tears, and they had faced starvation ... It was an amazing gesture. By today's standards, it might be a million dollars" according to Judy Allen, editor of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma's newspaper, Bishinik, based at the Oklahoma Choctaw tribal headquarters in Durant, Oklahoma."

Wiki is notoriously an unreliable source - it's choc full of errors. There is no citation given in this wiki article for the claim of "misprint" so I dug a little and found that the original source - the Arkansas Intelligencer (Arkansas, USA), 3 April 1847 - states that the donation was in fact $170.

http://multitext.ucc.ie/d/American_Donations

Kalashnikov_Kid

Throughout the 19th and early 20th Centuries, the slums of Dublin were notorious and were considered only behind Moscow as the worst slums in Europe.

There was a little-known second river of Dublin that was crucial in its foundation - the River Poddle.

There was a long-standing rivalry between the Gardiner estates of the Northside and the Pembroke estates of the Southside during the 17th Century - the respective fortunes of each family would go someway in defining the perceived class differences bisected by the Liffey today.

Indeed, for a while the Northside was seen as the more fashionable area - with Sackville (O'Connell) Street originally constructed as a residential street. Interestingly O'Connell Street Lower predates O'Connell Street Upper. This all changed when the Earl of Leinster (I think) moved across the river to reside in where Leinster House is today.

Maybe I did learn something from my Arts degree apart from how to open a bottle of beer with my teeth

Dr. Baltar

McArmalite wrote: »

Although Dublin escaped the mass bombing of the war due to Ireland's neutrality, the Luftwaffe mistalenly bombed Dublin on May 31, 1941, and hit the North Wall killing 34 Irish civilians and wounding another 90. It is thought the bombings were due to navigational error and weather, as the Luftwaffe mistook it possibly for Liverpool docks.

Documents were found in Berlin after World War II which suggested that the bombing of Dublin was not an accident. Some historians are of the opinion that after the bombing of Belfast and Dealera's sending of fire trucks to the north to put out the fires, the germans saw this action s a breach of neautrality and so decided to bomb the capital.

McArmalite

Sir Baralot wrote: »

Documents were found in Berlin after World War II which suggested that the bombing of Dublin was not an accident. Some historians are of the opinion that after the bombing of Belfast and Dealera's sending of fire trucks to the north to put out the fires, the germans saw this action s a breach of neautrality and so decided to bomb the capital.

Fine if it's true but seems a bit far fetched to me. Could you post the links/references that " Documents were found in Berlin after World War II which suggested that the bombing of Dublin was not an accident. " and " the germans saw this action s a breach of neautrality and so decided to bomb the capital. " ?

pablomakaveli

For a while the Russian crown jewels were kept in Ireland as collateral for a loan given by the Irish Republics government to the Russians shortly around the time of the Russian revolution.

Harry Boland brought them to Ireland and kept them in his mothers house.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Crown_Jewels

bullpost

When Michael Collins was in negotiations with the British he was shown plans for the future of Dublin, including plans to build an underground rail system similar to Londons tube.
He was said to have joked that if his intelligence had been good enough to have known about this he would have held off a little longer before beginning the war of independence.

Fratton Fred

McArmalite wrote: »

The very first All Ireland Football Final took place at Beech Hill Ave in Donnybrook on April 23rd 1887 when Limerick played Louth. In those days the Counties were represented by the County Club Champions and Limerick won. There is a plaque at the entrance to the estate to commerate it.

Although Dublin escaped the mass bombing of the war due to Ireland's neutrality, the Luftwaffe mistalenly bombed Dublin on May 31, 1941, and hit the North Wall killing 34 Irish civilians and wounding another 90. It is thought the bombings were due to navigational error and weather, as the Luftwaffe mistook it possibly for Liverpool docks.

And if Germany had won WW2 Fratton Fred would now be known as Fred von Fratton

I think they also bombed Dun Laoghaire as well.

It is actually freidrich von Frattonoff if you don't mind:D

Judgement Day

Fred - I think that you are incorrect about Dun Laoghaire or least I never heard of it before. Then again, I never heard about the Russian Crown Jewels being in Ireland before but when I see Wikipedia as the source I am slightly dubious.

pablomakaveli

Judgement Day wrote: »

Fred - I think that you are incorrect about Dun Laoghaire or least I never heard of it before. Then again, I never heard about the Russian Crown Jewels being in Ireland before but when I see Wikipedia as the source I am slightly dubious.

Here then:
http://www.irelandinformationguide.com/Michael_Collins_(Irish_leader)

Look at the minister for finance section.

Fred is also right btw.
http://www.streetsofdublin.com/dunlaoghaire/history.html

Judgement Day

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Here then:
http://www.irelandinformationguide.com/Michael_Collins_(Irish_leader)

Look at the minister for finance section.

Fred is also right btw.
http://www.streetsofdublin.com/dunlaoghaire/history.html

Thanks for that - happy to be proved wrong - again (!) - anyway two more things for me to try and remember in my increasingly befuddled brain.

R.Dub.Fusilier

Sir Baralot wrote: »

Documents were found in Berlin after World War II which suggested that the bombing of Dublin was not an accident. Some historians are of the opinion that after the bombing of Belfast and Dealera's sending of fire trucks to the north to put out the fires, the germans saw this action s a breach of neautrality and so decided to bomb the capital.

I can’t remember in what book , but when the Germans bombed Belfast docks for the first time their bombs fell short of their targets , but the next time they were more accurate and the British rightly or wrongly blamed the Irish / IRA . I’m not sure of the timeline on this but when there was another raid on Belfast the British bent the radio waves that the German bombers were using and bombed Dublin thinking it was Belfast . Apparently the brits admitted this in the 50s.

Balmed Out

Bandon was a walled prodestant town and apparently had something in the manner of "No catholic may enter" written on the gateway. Beneath was graffitied with "so say the gates of hell".

Fratton Fred

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

I can’t remember in what book , but when the Germans bombed Belfast docks for the first time their bombs fell short of their targets , but the next time they were more accurate and the British rightly or wrongly blamed the Irish / IRA . I’m not sure of the timeline on this but when there was another raid on Belfast the British bent the radio waves that the German bombers were using and bombed Dublin thinking it was Belfast . Apparently the brits admitted this in the 50s.

That's not strictly true. Good article here
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/why-the-nazis-bombed-dublin-1075966.html

Fratton Fred

There are actually two O'Connell bridges in Dublin

R.Dub.Fusilier

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That's not strictly true. Good article here
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/why-the-nazis-bombed-dublin-1075966.html

'But given Churchill's state of suppressed fury with de Valera, the British would probably not have been upset if they had sent the Luftwaffe off to bomb Dublin.'

the last line from the link says it all . Churchill was never a friend of the Irish .

MarchDub

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

'But given Churchill's state of suppressed fury with de Valera, the British would probably not have been upset if they had sent the Luftwaffe off to bomb Dublin.'

the last line from the link says it all . Churchill was never a friend of the Irish .

I was about to make the same comment - "suppressed fury" is an understatement. But an interesting article nonetheless.

Fratton Fred

So says an article written in an Irish newspaper.

Its irrelevant, the British couldn't bend beams, only scramble them a bit. XE jamming I think it was called. The BBC antenna in crystal palace was used I think.

MarchDub

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So says an article written in an Irish newspaper.

Its irrelevant, the British couldn't bend beams, only scramble them a bit. XE jamming I think it was called. The BBC antenna in crystal palace was used I think.

The link is to the UK Independent. I wouldn't call it an Irish newspaper in spite of Tony O'Reilly's hegemony - it has a separate history and origins in spite of the similar name to the Irish newspaper. Wasn't the UK Independent founded in the 1980s by journalists from the Daily Telegraph?

Fratton Fred

Fair enough, still not relevant and way off topic.

DublinDes

Dublin ha swon the All Ireland football title 22 times the last in 1995. God knows when we will win it again

focus_mad

O'Connell Street was built as a resident's walk way.
Henrietta Street was built by Lord Gardiner and when built was established as the finest street in Dublin (Northside and Southside)

MarchDub

Fratton Fred wrote: »

way off topic.

OK Fred, I hear you. Back to topic...

A Compelling entry in the Annals of Clonmacnoise for 1061 tells of a dispute/war between the O'Connors and the O'Briens. At a critical stage Hugh O'Connor, King of Connaught rode angrily to Thomond and "broke down the palace built by Brian Boru in Kincora and also did eat the two salmon that were in [the O'Brien] King's fishpond there".

The latter O'Brien king ref is to a descendant of Boru.

But that's a proper war - wreck the house and eat your enemy's dinner.

Capt'n Midnight

Balmed Out wrote: »

Bandon was a walled prodestant town and apparently had something in the manner of "No catholic may enter" written on the gateway. Beneath was graffitied with "so say the gates of hell".

As I remembered it
prodestant, jew or athiest may enter but not a papist
Who wrote it, wrote it well for the same is written on the gates of hell.

web says
Enter here, Turk, Jew or atheist, any man except a Papist.
Underneath those lines, some Irishman, fighting back with the only two things left that could not be stripped from him - his wit and his dignity - wrote: "The man who wrote this wrote it well, for the same is writ on the gates of Hell."

DublinWriter

Orson Wells actually starting his acting career in Dublin in the Gate theatre.

He travelled to Ireland to try his hand as a landscape artist in his early 20's, then thought he could give acting a try and lied to both Michael McLiamor and Hilton Edwards that he was a famous actor in the states.

They both knew he was bs'ing them, but they liked his moxie and gave him parts in their Gate productions.

DublinWriter

Not a historical fact, but a funny story.

In the late 1980's, workers at Pat the Baker went on strike and marched down O'Connell St with placards stating "Save Pat the Baker".

I overheard a group of Americans say "Gee...that Pat guy must be really popular".

Darlughda

A summons was sent out to all the Gaelic chieftains, especially in the Connaught area,where Henry 8th's surrender and regrant policy was being resisted, to submit themselves before Bingham, the new Governor of Connaught.

Granuaile was not allowed by law to enter the city of Galway, as the ancient gate plaque read ' From the Ferocious O' Flaitheartas, May we be protected'. or something like that.

Anyway, she docked a couple of her finest Galleys around Galway Bay, armed with at least 200 of her finest warriors, and invited the mad Bingham on board her ship just so he could get a load of what he was really up against in taking her on.

Then she sent him an invoice for the trip.:D

Snickers Man

Dr. Baltar wrote: »

Documents were found in Berlin after World War II which suggested that the bombing of Dublin was not an accident. Some historians are of the opinion that after the bombing of Belfast and Dealera's sending of fire trucks to the north to put out the fires, the germans saw this action s a breach of neautrality and so decided to bomb the capital.

Is there a source for this other than Bill Cullen's "Begob and Bejaney didn't the bould Hitler have us in his sights all the time, whah?" revelation in his memoirs? It's the only place I ever came across it.

And I must say, it seems unlikely.