Recession over in France & Germany

Agent J

As soon as the recovery there is official (Ie at least 2 quarters worth).

Interest rates will rise.
Then we'll see some real pain here with people with mortgages

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Woo hoo!

Interesting point though: how long before Ireland pulls out?

The reason the Germans weren't as badly hit is because they don't have the same credit/mortgage culture over here, so people still had money to spend, despite losing their jobs.

And who the feck called Bertie Ahearn a "socialist"?! Funniest thing I've read on boards in a while!

Nodin

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

And who the feck called Bertie Ahearn a "socialist"?! Funniest thing I've read on boards in a while!

He described himself thus. He was sober and apparently trying to be serious at the time. Read here, but have nothing in your hands while doing so....
http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/2004/1202/ireland/kfqlidojgbql/

Mr Ahern claimed his form of socialism was geared towards maintaining strong economic growth, not destroying it.

“I am a left winger, my form of socialism, the reason I say I’m the only one is because the other socialists would wreck the economy,” he said.



Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/2004/1202/ireland/kfqlidojgbql/#ixzz0O5jb08Uk

Pal

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Ireland doesn't really have anything to export outside of agricultural products.

dannym08 wrote: »

correct me if im wrong but afaik agriculture accounts for less than 10% of ireland exports

You are correct Danny.
Its a whopping 4.7%

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Nodin wrote: »

He described himself thus. He was sober and apparently trying to be serious at the time. Read here, but have nothing in your hands while doing so....
http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/2004/1202/ireland/kfqlidojgbql/

Mr Ahern claimed his form of socialism was geared towards maintaining strong economic growth, not destroying it.

“I am a left winger, my form of socialism, the reason I say I’m the only one is because the other socialists would wreck the economy,” he said.



Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/2004/1202/ireland/kfqlidojgbql/#ixzz0O5jb08Uk

And of course Bertie coulodn't lie. By the way, I'm Superman.

(Honestly... a left winger leading Fianna Fail? What's next? Ian Paisley running for Pope?)

dotsman

Why can't people fathom that Fianna Fail are left-wing?

Do you have any concept of the state of our finances? How, over the 12 years they have been in power, the social welfare and and public sector bill has ballooned completely out of control? How, they encouraged the property boom, so they could pander to the unions and buy the vote of the "common man", paying for all this.

The property bubble is just one part of the bubble. The other parts are the social welfare/public sector bubble, and if they don't they deflate them fast, then the IMF will come in here with a giant pin.

Only in a socialist state, can an unskilled worker earn a much higher wage than a skilled one (as often happened over the past decade with basic labourers walking away with a far bigger pay checks that college graduates). Only in a socialist state, does a person "earn" more on social welfare than doing an honest days work contributing to society/economy (as continues to this day with many welfare families receiving more than a hard-working low-income family). Only in a socialist state does a public sector worker (despite the added bonuses of perks, job security and pension) earn more than their private sector equivalent. And exactly what great public service do we have for this great pay? Is our Health/Education/Policing/Transport etc sectors the envy of the world?

Rebelheart

dotsman wrote: »

It's our BS socialist policies that got us in this mess, and until we we rid ourselves of BS socialism, we're going to stay in this mess.

You have got to be shi tting me. This is about the most brazen thing since Denis O'Brien came out in October 2003 with the following:

"I think people are too negative towards politicians, Government and entrepreneurs," he said. "We are fast turning into a communist state. We are fast moving towards communist doctrine. People in this country should be thankful for what they have achieved in the last 10 years. Instead, I come back to Ireland and people are screaming like spoiled children."

(http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/obrien-the-patriot-whos-playing-a-rich-mans-game-136005.html)


Extraordinary given our current reality of this government interferring in the market to prop up bulwarks of the capitalist system, financial institutions, with the taxes of generations of Irish people.

Zillah

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

yes but Ger and France have many homegrown multinationals and lots of homegrown unique products that there will always be a market for. Ireland doesn't really have anything to export outside of agricultural products.

Seriously, is typing out "Germany" really such a chore?

The Walsho

mental07 wrote: »

Wow. Stereotype much?

The Walsho wrote: »

It was in jest. See also, my stereotyping of the French.

.

dotsman

Rebelheart wrote: »

You have got to be shi tting me.

I'm afraid I'm not.

Rebelheart wrote: »

Extraordinary given our current reality of this government interferring in the market to prop up bulwarks of the capitalist system, financial institutions, with the taxes of generations of Irish people.

Every government, including France and Germany (and the states, which was in a worse position than us with regards banking, but is now also coming out of the recession) was forced to "interfere" with the financial sector. This was due to a global financial crisis that started in the US. The financial crisis is only one part of our recession. Even if it never happened, we would still be up the creek regarding our own property market, social welfare and public sector crisis.

P.S. Not one cent of your taxes (if you pay them) is going to the banks. Every cent of our taxes goes to prop up the social welfare and public sector, and even then, we don't even have enough money (we were never going to without the contribution from the property sector).

The government aren't giving the banks taxpayer's money. They are investing in the banks on a mutually beneficial basis. The banks need to raise capital, and can't function until they do. This country needs it's banks to function, and so is investing in the banks (getting an 8% return) using the pension reserves. This money will be paid back in due course (and meanwhile, the banks are contributing buckets of money to the coffers). The reason our banks are doing badly compared to other countries is because our economy is far more fcuked than others and it will take much longer for us to get back on our feet.

The "bailout of the banks" everyone keeps moaning about hasn't actually happened yet. A bailout will only occur if the banks collapses, and the government loses it's investment (and also has to cough up under the guarantee, which the banks are currently paying €500,000,000 p.a.)

Under the current recession, with the economy completely depressed, our government raised taxes and increased welfare and public sector pay which goes in the face of any intelligent/capitalist policy.

IvyTheTerrible

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

why don't you just marry your boyfriend!

What the hell is that about?

IvyTheTerrible

Four-Percent wrote: »

Yeah, if he's so great then why don't you just go and live in France!

I do live in France and what the hell does this have to do with the thread?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

dotsman wrote: »

Why can't people fathom that Fianna Fail are left-wing?

Do you have any concept of the state of our finances? How, over the 12 years they have been in power, the social welfare and and public sector bill has ballooned completely out of control? How, they encouraged the property boom, so they could pander to the unions and buy the vote of the "common man", paying for all this.

The property bubble is just one part of the bubble. The other parts are the social welfare/public sector bubble, and if they don't they deflate them fast, then the IMF will come in here with a giant pin.

Only in a socialist state, can an unskilled worker earn a much higher wage than a skilled one (as often happened over the past decade with basic labourers walking away with a far bigger pay checks that college graduates). Only in a socialist state, does a person "earn" more on social welfare than doing an honest days work contributing to society/economy (as continues to this day with many welfare families receiving more than a hard-working low-income family). Only in a socialist state does a public sector worker (despite the added bonuses of perks, job security and pension) earn more than their private sector equivalent. And exactly what great public service do we have for this great pay? Is our Health/Education/Policing/Transport etc sectors the envy of the world?

If Ireland had been run by a left-wing party, as you say, the money earned would have gone back to the people in forms of improved services.

Why are the Peoples' Children not getting a good education? Ask Biggles about the "Working Man's" party's attitude toward good health care.

Nothing to do with over-staffed bureaus (although I grat you, it is a problem), but because the money went into the pockets of bankers and corrupt businessmen NOT to the people.

Euro_Kraut

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I do live in France and what the hell does this have to do with the thread?

They are being ironic.

IvyTheTerrible

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

They are being ironic.

Ah. /me switches irony detector on/

kmick

The ECB will raise rates as soon as inflation starts to rise that is their only mandate. According to many economists we are about to begin a massive inflationary period due to the fact that countries essentially printed money to get us out of recession. Quantitive Easing they called it.

I would agree Irleand is more socialist than capitalist but France is worse. If you think the Unions are bad here you aint seen nothing till you try and take on a French union. They may have a centre right government but its been as bad as Cowen at tackling the public sector. Also the unemployment payments over there used to be even highter than Ireland. Not sure of they still are.

johnny_knoxvile

yes!!! The Germans can afford to buy David Hasselhoff cds now...life has meaning again!

qwertz

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

das ist wunderbare Nachrichten

Das sind wunderbare Nachrichten. Get your feckin German right.

SuperDude87

To put this into context France has just finished its huge summer sale season meaning that of course spending was up. Official figures reveal that an increase of 3% for new cars on the market due to the government reduction.

Spending may be up but unemployment is incredible and for every story on the news about spending up or improvements in the economy theres at least another 2 of people loosing their jobs or more budget cuts by Sarko.

Doesn't feel like "La Crise" is going to finish anytime soon just because of a 0.3% rise :rolleyes:

johnny_knoxvile

SuperDude87 wrote: »

To put this into context France has just finished its huge summer sale season meaning that of course spending was up. Official figures reveal that an increase of 3% for new cars on the market due to the government reduction.

Spending may be up but unemployment is incredible and for every story on the news about spending up or improvements in the economy theres at least another 2 of people loosing their jobs or more budget cuts by Sarko.

Doesn't feel like "La Crise" is going to finish anytime soon just because of a 0.3% rise :rolleyes:

*ssshh...dont wreck the party*...YAY ITS OVER! break out the Blue Nun!

Ponster

SuperDude87 wrote: »

Doesn't feel like "La Crise" is going to finish anytime soon just because of a 0.3% rise :rolleyes:

Ahh, but it will. You see should the next quarter also be positive then La Crise will officially be over we'll all go back to the way that it was before the recession.

Degsy

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

What my boyfriend says is "We're always in a recession so we don't really notice La Crise!"

Oh great..coz i was just wondering what your boyfriend has to say on the matter:rolleyes:

SuperDude87

johnny_knoxvile wrote: »

*ssshh...dont wreck the party*...YAY ITS OVER! break out the Blue Nun!

Any excuse for a p!ss up....!:p

Ponster wrote: »

Ahh, but it will. You see should the next quarter also be positive then La Crise will officially be over we'll all go back to the way that it was before the recession.

I sincerely doubt it. More than 2 quarters of positive growth is needed to get out of this recession. 450,000+ people on the dole aren't going to dissapear overnight! I mean there are no jobs going at the moment hence me spending the summer on the dole!

Degsy

SuperDude87 wrote: »

I mean there are no jobs going at the moment hence me spending the summer on the dole!

Funny that,i just heard a girl on the bus being offered a job yesterday.

Ponster

SuperDude87 wrote: »

Any excuse for a p!ss up....!:p


I sincerely doubt it.

Sorry. I wasn't talking about Ireland.

Stark

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

If Ireland had been run by a left-wing party, as you say, the money earned would have gone back to the people in forms of improved services.

Why are the Peoples' Children not getting a good education? Ask Biggles about the "Working Man's" party's attitude toward good health care.

Nothing to do with over-staffed bureaus (although I grat you, it is a problem), but because the money went into the pockets of bankers and corrupt businessmen NOT to the people.

Any money put towards improved services is usually gobbled up once the unions get a sniff of it.

The people are as guilty as the bankers and developers are through their greed in the property goldrush. The bankers and developers weren't the ones buying "investment properties" and leaving them sit empty while others struggled to afford to buy and rent. They were merely the enablers.

dotsman

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

If Ireland had been run by a left-wing party, as you say, the money earned would have gone back to the people in forms of improved services.

What money? It was all credit that now needs to be paid back! When are socialist countries known for their great services? Were the services in any of the former Soviet Union countries great? What about North Korea or China or a host of other socialist countries today.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Why are the Peoples' Children not getting a good education?

Because we can't change anything in our Education sector without paying off the unions first. You want to change teaching practices? Fine, teachers want a 10% raise. You want to change the hours etc? Fine, the teachers want a 10% raise. You want to get rid of the useless teachers (even though you would also be rewarding the better teachers)? Strike, crippling strike. Likewise with Health, Policing etc. You cannot change anything in the Public sector without paying ridiculous money to the unions who hold this country hostage.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Nothing to do with over-staffed bureaus (although I grat you, it is a problem), but because the money went into the pockets of bankers and corrupt businessmen NOT to the people.

Who are these "bankers" who pocketed all the money? Who are these "corrupt" businessmen? These bogeymen may be great as mythical bad guys that are used to storm up favour for the socialists. But the reality is very different.

If you want to know where "the money" went, take a look at how much we are spending on Social Welfare and on the Public Sector.

lucky-colm

still it's great news
two of the biggest countries in europe are out of the resession
does anyone know what time exactly the resession ended there?

couch13

Maybe next quarter.