New Luas on the way to Dublin

congo_90

Hey all,
I've no pics just yet but passing through wexford the other day there was a luas on a trailer parked up.. Was still there this morn. I'll try get some pics up.
I'm guessing it came from Rosslare but where is the Luas made?

Just thought I'd share this bit of info

Oh it was missing one cabin (not attached I presume)

Karoma

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luas#Track_and_Rolling_Stock

Typewriter

http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/topic/1414/t/New-Luas-trams.html

corktina

if only it was 5'3" guage..the turntable looks like it would make a suitable off loading point. Very few turning places left on IE now btw....

Chris_533976

Looks to me like they crashed the lorry.

sonyair

Isn't the line from rosslare or part to dublin all electrified now, surely they can put the luas on these track and let in make its own way to dub and then lift it off the tracks in dublin and take it to the depot.....

L1011

These are the new ones that are significantly higher capacity yet only barely longer aren't they? Going to cause some fun when a old one trundles up it at Heuston in the morning once traffic loadings got used to the new ones!

L1011

sonyair wrote: »

Isn't the line from rosslare or part to dublin all electrified now, surely they can put the luas on these track and let in make its own way to dub and then lift it off the tracks in dublin and take it to the depot.....

Three problems:

1: Its electrified only to Greystones
2: Its a much, much higher voltage
3: The Luas is the wrong gauge!

dowlingm

ironically, the luas could have taken that curve better than the trailer its on, being articulated

sonyair

MYOB wrote: »

Three problems:

1: Its electrified only to Greystones
2: Its a much, much higher voltage
3: The Luas is the wrong gauge!

Theres always problems in this country

admiralofthefleet

the front of the new tram is different to the current fleet, especially at the bottom

corktina

MYOB wrote: »

Three problems:

1: Its electrified only to Greystones
2: Its a much, much higher voltage
3: The Luas is the wrong gauge!

no the Luas is the right guage, its the rest of our railways that are the wrong guage

Run_to_da_hills

MYOB wrote: »

Three problems:

1: Its electrified only to Greystones
2: Its a much, much higher voltage
3: The Luas is the wrong gauge!

4: Unions

ardmacha

Are you sure that this is an extra LUAS for Dublin and not the fleet for a new Enniscorthy rapid transit network.

NedNew

corktina wrote: »

no the Luas is the right guage, its the rest of our railways that are the wrong guage

From Wikipedia:
Most railways in Europe use the standard gauge of 1,435 mm. Some countries use broad gauge, of which there are three types. Narrow gauges also exist.


Broad gauge
Russian gauge
1,520 mm: Former Soviet Union states
1,524 mm: Finland

Irish gauge
1,600 mm: Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland

Iberian gauge
1,668 mm: Portugal and Spain

rednik

These are the new 402 trams and are for service on the green line only,once they are fully in service the older 401 trams will be brought over for service on the red line. There are eight now in the Sandyford Depot.

Run_to_da_hills

NedNew wrote: »

From Wikipedia:
Most railways in Europe use the standard gauge of 1,435 mm. Some countries use broad gauge, of which there are three types. Narrow gauges also exist.


Broad gauge
Russian gauge
1,520 mm: Former Soviet Union states
1,524 mm: Finland

Irish gauge
1,600 mm: Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland

Iberian gauge
1,668 mm: Portugal and Spain

If we vote for Lisbon Ireland may be forced to change its railway gauge to match that of Europe, this could cause years of disruption. :eek:

GerardKeating

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If we vote for Lisbon Ireland may be forced to change its railway gauge to match that of Europe, this could cause years of disruption. :eek:

Well, since it is the Lisbon agreement, should be not be force to change to the Iberian gauge??

D'Peoples Voice

NedNew wrote: »

From Wikipedia:
Irish gauge
1,600 mm: Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland

So Northern Ireland has the legal right to dictate what size railway it uses, and can choose different to the rest of the UK,
but it can't do the same for road speed limits.
Strange!

D.L.R.

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

So Northern Ireland has the legal right to dictate what size railway it uses, and can choose different to the rest of the UK,
but it can't do the same for road speed limits.
Strange!

I don't think NI is in any position to "choose" its rail gauge. It is merely a fact of life.

dubhthach

D.L.R. wrote: »

I don't think NI is in any position to "choose" its rail gauge. It is merely a fact of life.

Indeed the law regarding gauge on the island of ireland was passed when we were still a part of the UK. NI never had a choice as it didn't exist at the time. Of course the Ulster Railway when built was 6'2 in gauge between Belfast and Portadown. The main reason a standard gauge was put in place for the island was that there was nearly 3 gauges in use at the time. These been

Standard (British) gauge on D&K
Broad Gauge (6'2) on the UR
Broad Gauge (5'2) proposed for Dublin to Drogheda railway

The gauge comission at the time were thinking of somewhere between 5' and 5'6 so they ended up splitting the difference and thus 5'3 as a unified gauge for island of Ireland.

congo_90

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

the front of the new tram is different to the current fleet, especially at the bottom

oh my.. the luas left so no pics sorry everyone but loving everyone elses!

Is it me or does the new luas appear "crosseyed" in the lights?
Whats the story with the two lines having different gauges by the way?

Cookie_Monster

Those new Luas' are ugo.

Captain Chaos

congo_90 wrote: »

Whats the story with the two lines having different gauges by the way?

The Red and Green lines have the same gauge. Someone suggested why they can't use the heavy rail lines to get to Dublin, they can't cause all heavy rail in Ireland uses the wider gauge with better loadings.

If the Red line to the point was in place and the Red and Green lines were linked up, the Luas could be off loaded at Dublin port, put on the rails and another Luas unit could drag them to either Red Cow and Sandyford depots.

Judgement Day

The advantage to offloading at Dublin being? I presume the units are on lorries all the way from the factory so they would have to stay on them to Dublin. Do they travel on regular ferries to Rosslare - don't know and I no longer really care.

ardmacha

So Northern Ireland has the legal right to dictate what size railway it uses, and can choose different to the rest of the UK,
but it can't do the same for road speed limits.

It is not clear that NI does not have the legal right have different speed limits if it wishes, just as it has things like "R" drivers.

Captain Chaos

Judgement Day wrote: »

The advantage to offloading at Dublin being?

Take them off a ship at the port and just move them to a rail line extended to the port like IE have. Then they run straight to the depot.

The way it is now, 1 off load onto an over sized truck that our roads can't manage, cloging up traffic from Rosslare to Sandyford, then offload them form truck to rail. Needless work, effort and cost.

IE did this change with the refurb DARTs and 22ks aswell. They used to be offloaded at Dublin and put straight onto the rails. Some later DART deliveries went to Rosslare but I think this was a genuine mistake. The DART units were on trucks driving down the M50 to Dublin port to put on rails there. :D.

Later 22k deliveries all went through Rosslare, all early ones were to Dublin.

GerardKeating

Captain Chaos wrote: »

If the Red line to the point was in place and the Red and Green lines were linked up, the Luas could be off loaded at Dublin port, put on the rails and another Luas unit could drag them to either Red Cow and Sandyford depots.

Even with out the point link in place, could that not have just trucked from From Dublin Port, it has got to be closer to the Luas that Rosslaire.

Carawaystick

GerardKeating wrote: »

Even with out the point link in place, could that not have just trucked from From Dublin Port, it has got to be closer to the Luas that Rosslaire.

Is there a truck ferry going from France to Dublin? If the trams came over on a normal scheduled ferry then it was probably cheaper this way.

Also, Any trucks going from Dublin port to Sandyford would need to go the long way round on the M50, so the journey wouldn't be as short as it seems, compared to the N11 route.

Typewriter

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If we vote for Lisbon Ireland may be forced to change its railway gauge to match that of Europe, this could cause years of disruption. :eek:

:rolleyes:

That is completely untrue.

What sence would that make on an island unconnected to any other country by rail?

Thats like saying we will all have to change over to driving on the right hand side of the road which we wont because its pointless.

Lies like that spread fear and distrust.

congo_90

green_jesus wrote: »

:rolleyes:

That is completely untrue.

What sence would that make on an island unconnected to any other country by rail?

Thats like saying we will all have to change over to driving on the right hand side of the road which we wont because its pointless.

Lies like that spread fear and distrust.

And send threads off topic big time...
This is a discussion of the new luas and luas related stuff not politics.
No offence to you, Green_jesus

cargo

congo_90 wrote: »

And send threads off topic big time...
This is a discussion of the new luas and luas related stuff not politics.
No offence to you, Green_jesus

By the way I think Run_to_da_hills may have been taking the pish!!!!

CardinalJ

They've been taking the old ones away from Sandyford and upgrading them for the last few weeks. As you saw in the pics the trucks are huge. Very strange to see half taken apart Luas' literally driving onto the backs of the trucks.

Glad they're upping capacity, Im lucking that I go out of town in the mornings but you see people who cant fit on to the trams every morning. Maybe we need guys with sticks to push everyone on!?!:D

L1011

Upgrading them? What upgrades are required? I know the internal layout on the stretched 301s is different to the 401s but I can't see what would be needed.

rednik

To date 8 new trams (the 402) have arrived at Sandyford and are being prepared for service. When they are ready the old trams (the 401) will be sent to the red line. No work has been done to the older trams as these are still in operation and no work will be done as these trams are perfect as they are.

HonalD

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The all heavy rail in Ireland uses the wider gauge with better loadings.

Never heard that used as a reason for us having a unique gauge?!?

L1011

HonalD wrote: »

Never heard that used as a reason for us having a unique gauge?!?

The reason for the unique gauge was that it was done by the Board of Trade to settle an argument as it was half way between the two extremes.

There is far more "Irish gauge" track in Brazil (allegedly due to second hand Irish engines) and bits of Australia (cause of Irish engineers) than Ireland!

But yes, the wider gauge does actually provide a better ride on identical condition track than 4'8.5".

congo_90

All this talk of gauge has me curious. So there are two types in Ireland?

one for the trains (intercity,dart etc) and then there is a seond one for the luas yea?

Judgement Day

There were many different gauges on the island of Ireland at one time but today the lines operated by CIE/IE and Translink/NIR are all 5ft 3inch gauge. At one time there were quite a number of narrow gauge (3ft) passenger lines but the last of these - the West Clare Railway - closed down in 1961. Today the only serious user of the 3ft gauge is Bord na Mona, who have almost 1,000 miles of permanent and temporary track for bringing peat from the bogs to briquette factories and ESB power stations.

Other industrial systems existed at many locations - Irish Steel at Haulbowline had a 4ft 8.5inch railway up until closure and the Guinness brewery at St.James Gate had an enormous internal rail system with both 1ft 10inch and 5ft 3" operations see here: http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/22/Guinness.htm

Anyway, that's enough of that - further dribbling on the subject should be researched at Irish Railway News at www.irishrailwaynews.com
or at the 'fossils' (Irish Railway Record Society) at www.irrs.ie

Empire o de Sun

I remember that there was quite a debate over the RPA's decision to go for the 1435 mm gauge (standard) rater than 1600 mm (broad) gauge used on all railways at the time in Ireland. Maybe it was just a ploy to ensure that the DART and the Harcourt line could never be integrated in the future. To keep the LUAS separate from CIÉ.

Empire o de Sun

I wonder what the reasoning behind the redesign for the luas. It has two extra articulated sections in it. Does this help capacity that much? We'll know when it's running I suppose

GerardKeating

congo_90 wrote: »

All this talk of gauge has me curious. So there are two types in Ireland?

one for the trains (intercity,dart etc) and then there is a seond one for the luas yea?

Ther are a few "off the shelf" tram systems at the standard european gauge, but none at the irish gauge.

Train are different fom trams in that they tend to be on buggies that can be re-gauged.

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

I wonder what the reasoning behind the redesign for the luas. It has two extra articulated sections in it. Does this help capacity that much? We'll know when it's running I suppose

The extra sections were not availbe when the first lot of trams were ordered, so they were ordered without them and are now being extended.

Húrin

sonyair wrote: »

Theres always problems in this country

The laws of physics (i.e. reason 2) apply everywhere.