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What caused the big bang

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2

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    #32
    DapperGent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,838 ✭✭✭DapperGent


    Your face.


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    #33
    Saruman
    Registered Users Posts: 11,389 ✭✭✭✭Saruman


    BVB wrote: »
    It was a Big Fart

    I create many a big bang every day, some more powerful than the others. Sometimes I think they tear a hole in the very fabric of space/time to create little universes of their own.


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    #34
    WIZE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭WIZE


    Saruman wrote: »
    I create many a big bang every day, some more powerful than the others. Sometimes I think they tear a hole in the very fabric of space/time to create little universes of their own.


    does it look anything like this

    farty-pants.jpg


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    #35
    fintonie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭fintonie


    BVB wrote: »
    does it look anything like this

    farty-pants.jpg

    i see seven new universes there


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    #36
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,967 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    onq wrote: »
    I've always had a difficulty with this on two levels.

    Consider the dots as blobs, i.e. not merely having a one-dimensional existence, but two, so area comes into it - needed for a two dimensional representation.

    Firstly its pretty clear that while the blobs aren't moving "into" anything in terms of the being on the balloon surface, they are expanding at the same rate as they surface and so if the distance between them is measured in units of their own width it shouldn't be seen to be changing by the blobs themselves.
    It if one blob was first defined as 15 blob-widths away from the second, it should still be 15 blob-widths away from the second.
    That's not the case in our universe - it seems it is expanding relative to the objects it encompasses.

    Secondly, its pretty clear that the balloon is expanding to take up more volume in three dimensional space than it did previously, so inhabitants of that "outer" space will tend to notice it as it expands. What happens when they notice us?

    Like I say, it's a metaphor, so it's not perfect. You're right about the blobs on the balloon expanding. In the expanding universe, we'd expand too*, if it wasn't for the forces that keep us together being stronger than the rate of expansion.

    But I'm not sure why you're measuring the distance from one blob to the other in "blob widths". A centimeter is a centimeter is a centimeter - it doesn't expand with the universe - in fact all of our measuring scales depend on them being static and uniform. You seem to be introducing a dynamic one that isn't needed.

    Also, in your second point, you've slipped from talking about the topology of surface of the balloon as being a 2 dimensional "universe" to the balloon itself as an object within a 3 dimensional universe. It's an easy trap to fall into, but is beside the point in terms of the metaphor.

    * Well, of course "we" wouldn't expand, as if it wasn't for the forces being stronger than the expansion, there would't be anything for us to be made of.

    Better get back to work now.

    +1 :D


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    #37
    Morbert
    Registered Users Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭Morbert


    Vampireskiss wrote: »
    If there was nothing there before it?

    This is a common misconception of the big bang. The big bang is a feature of spacetime, so we cannot interpret it as an event; asking what caused the big bang is like asking what is north of the north pole. It is a question that simply doesn't make sense.

    We won't have a complete picture until we incorporate quantum mechanics into cosmology, but we can't apply sloppy reasoning in its place.


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    #38
    F1ngers
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭F1ngers


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWVshkVF0SY


    The Gods have.... sung...:pac:


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    #39
    Sleipnir
    Registered Users Posts: 5,514 ✭✭✭Sleipnir


    Vampireskiss wrote: »
    If there was nothing there before it?
    Why is this in the Atheism/Agnosticism forum and not the Astronomy and Space forum?

    I hope it's not a "well science can't explain it and the only reason we have remaining is that is God did it" argument.


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    #40
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    Sleipnir wrote: »
    Why is this in the Atheism/Agnosticism forum and not the Astronomy and Space forum?
    It should really be called "Big bang and what came before it" forum, because basically all arguments come back to that point.


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    #41
    pH
    Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    If time didn't exist before the big bang then to ask what was before it doesn't make sense, it's just as 'true' to say that it's always been here ...

    Q. Was there ever a 'time' that the universe didn't exist?
    A. No

    Therefore the universe has always been here.


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    #42
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    pH wrote: »
    If time didn't exist before the big bang then to ask what was before it doesn't make sense, it's just as 'true' to say that it's always been here ...

    Q. Was there ever a 'time' that the universe didn't exist?
    A. No

    Therefore the universe has always been here.

    That's nice and tidy, I like it.


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    #43
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    pH wrote: »
    Therefore the universe has always been here.
    Yes, but who created it?(tm) :)


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    #44
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Vampireskiss wrote: »
    Its just that Atheists base their beliefs on science and that every occurrance has a scientific reason for its existence and yet when its comes to the biggest thing ever to happen we just don't know.Am I right in stating that we are all in agreement that it wasn't science that caused it for science didn't exist? So I wonder, what was it?

    Science is the latin word for knowledge so no, knowledge did not cause the big bang.


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    #45
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    pH wrote: »
    If time didn't exist before the big bang then to ask what was before it doesn't make sense, it's just as 'true' to say that it's always been here ...

    Q. Was there ever a 'time' that the universe didn't exist?
    A. No

    Therefore the universe has always been here.

    Nothing can always be there.



























































    Except God.


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    #46
    ilkhanid
    Registered Users Posts: 909 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    seamus wrote: »
    Could have been anything, could have been a "critical mass" type of incident. If the expanding/contracting universe theory is right, then moments before the big bang, the previous universe was in the final stages of contraction (i.e. all mass had compressed into a point mass). At that stage there would be a "tipping point" - perhaps all of the mass in the universe compressed into a single point is inherently unstable, thus the point mass before the big bang only existed for fractions of a microsecond before it exploded into the big bang.

    This is not an answer we're likely to ever know because it's not an experiment we can recreate :D

    Speak for yourself! I'm trying it out next thursday in the garden shed.


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    #47
    smokingman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,742 ✭✭✭smokingman


    Last I read about the subject, the current belief is that our universe "blistered" off another one and this was the "big bang". Kinda like when you blow a tire up too much and you get a bubble blistering off a weak point. This was a theory postulated to tidy super string theory up a little afaik.

    ....and Vampirewhatsyername....just 'cause I can't find my socks in the morning, doesn't mean God hid them...


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    #48
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    smokingman wrote: »
    ....and Vampirewhatsyername....just 'cause I can't find my socks in the morning, doesn't mean God hid them...

    Are you sure? It could be God wants you to go forth... sockless.


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    #49
    Mena
    Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Mena


    Rev Hellfire wrote: »
    It should really be called "Big bang and what came before it" forum, because basically all arguments come back to that point.

    *In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. :pac:

    *Carl Sagan of course


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    #50
    fintonie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭fintonie


    well what we do know is sumtin happened and there was an awful shocking holy terror of a mess after it


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    #51
    ilkhanid
    Registered Users Posts: 909 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    onq wrote: »
    Firstly its pretty clear that while the blobs aren't moving "into" anything in terms of the being on the balloon surface, they are expanding at the same rate as they surface and so if the distance between them is measured in units of their own width it shouldn't be seen to be changing by the blobs themselves.
    It if one blob was first defined as 15 blob-widths away from the second, it should still be 15 blob-widths away from the second.
    That's not the case in our universe - it seems it is expanding relative to the objects it encompasses.

    Secondly, its pretty clear that the balloon is expanding to take up more volume in three dimensional space than it did previously, so inhabitants of that "outer" space will tend to notice it as it expands. What happens when they notice us?

    Then there is the question that really is the elephant in the room.
    Can such an occurrence occur within the universe - IOW can another big ban occur within the space time of a previous big bang and if so what happens to the matter/energy/dark matter/dark energy already in existence - is it "overwritten"/destroyed/negated? What?

    As I understand it-I may be misunderstanding this-the "expanding bubble" is all there is and it's not expanding into a pre-existing emptiness of any kind. The bubble itself creates the space as it gets larger.
    If the Universe is expanding to heat death, then a big bang can't be caused by an imploding former universe in a bellows effect. It must be something else.


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    #52
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    I repair computers in my spare time. I also do a bit of bar work for a friend when he's stuck. One day while I was helping in the bar he turned to me and said,
    "You fix computers right?"
    I replied "Yes"
    He then asked "Will you have a look and see why the till isn't turning on so?".
    I think the OP has slipped into that trap of putting two issues together because in their mind they're the same thing. If I want an idea what caused the big bang I would ask someone who is well thought of in an astronomy/space/science field not someone who doesn't believe in a god and uses known logic to argue some of his points.
    Oh btw the till's on/off switch was set to off just for those still curious.


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    #53
    Sleipnir
    Registered Users Posts: 5,514 ✭✭✭Sleipnir


    Just find this guy and ask him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Guth He'll tell you what it's all about.


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    #54
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    onq wrote: »
    I've always had a difficulty with this on two levels.

    Consider the dots as blobs, i.e. not merely having a one-dimensional existence, but two, so area comes into it - needed for a two dimensional representation.

    Firstly its pretty clear that while the blobs aren't moving "into" anything in terms of the being on the balloon surface, they are expanding at the same rate as they surface and so if the distance between them is measured in units of their own width it shouldn't be seen to be changing by the blobs themselves.
    It if one blob was first defined as 15 blob-widths away from the second, it should still be 15 blob-widths away from the second.
    That's not the case in our universe - it seems it is expanding relative to the objects it encompasses.

    I could explain this bit really badly, or post a link.

    Hmm.... ;)

    http://www.av8n.com/physics/expansion-of-the-universe.htm


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    #55
    Osgoodisgood
    Registered Users Posts: 869 ✭✭✭Osgoodisgood


    Vampireskiss wrote: »
    Its just that Atheists base their beliefs on science and that every occurrance has a scientific reason for its existence and yet when its comes to the biggest thing ever to happen we just don't know.Am I right in stating that we are all in agreement that it wasn't science that caused it for science didn't exist? So I wonder, what was it?

    Oh, alright then. You just won't let this go will you? Well seeing how you asked I'll tell you, because, and don't tell anyone this, I was there when it happened.

    So just between the two of us I'll share. I know who did it.

    It was..................
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    A guy called Kevin.

    Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!


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    #56
    fintonie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭fintonie


    Osgoodisgood wrote: »
    Oh, alright then. You just won't let this go will you? Well seeing how you asked I'll tell you, because, and don't tell anyone this, I was there when it happened.

    So just between the two of us I'll share. I know who did it.

    It was..................
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    A guy called Kevin.

    Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

    the bastard did he kill kenny


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    #57
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    *Looks back over thread in shame*

    We have done a terrible thing this day.


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    #58
    cypharius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭cypharius


    I have a simple explanation, but a silly one.

    1) - There was nothing. No laws, no limits, no passage of time.
    2) - With no laws anything can happen, and therefor will happen.
    3) - This universe was created, along with an infinite number of other universes.

    This fails however, because infinite universes can not be. Here's why.
    1) - If there is infinite universes, then everything will happen.
    2) - That means there has to be an infinite amount of universes that destroy existence, and an infinite that stop them from destroying existence, and an infinite amount to stop them from stopping the existence destroyers, etc.
    3) - Paradox.

    In short, I don't understand, and nobody can, because existence is infinite, however, it is impossible for a limited mind to comprehend the infinite.


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    #59
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Wouldn't number 2) simply cancel each other out?


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    #60
    cypharius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭cypharius


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    Wouldn't number 2) simply cancel each other out?


    Yes, but it confuses me.


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    #61
    Jako8
    Registered Users Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Jako8


    I'm not going to theorize about what cause the big bang but I will say this;

    We all have some grasp of logic. Logic tells us that something must have happened to have caused the universe. Then we come to another question; what was this something? This has stumped mankind since the creation of the Big Bang theory but this question is exploited by religious people.

    They always say, "Well it was obviously God who caused it" and then they revel in their fantastic proof of God. However they neglect the next question that is raised after that statement.

    OK so if God was the cause of the big bang answer the following...





    What caused god?


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