Building first PC - initial doubts

inigo

Originally I thought of replacing our dead PC and old laptop for another laptop, but then my wife decided she didn't want to scrap a laptop that worked (it's USB 1!!! :rolleyes:) and that was also her dad's present. I then came across this forum and was almost instantly lured into building my own PC for the first time. I'm sure many of you have felt like this before?

We would like the computer to last us a few years and we'll be using it for office, web browsing, occasional movie and the like but no gaming at all. The most demanding task would be correcting 4-5MB pictures (while having a large presentation open at the same time), perhaps some video editing, but we are not too impatient either, so we don't need the computer to perform the tasks before hitting the key!

I've been reading this forum and other websites but still have a ton of doubts. If you wouldn't mind helping me with some general ones I would then go and look at specific parts.

Processor: Dual Core, Triple Core? 2.5, 3.0 GHz? AMD instead of Intel (AMD seems to be cheaper)?

Memory: 2,3 or 4MB? Should I leave the door open to 8 for the future?

Graphics card: 512MB? PCI, AGP?

OS: My idea is to install linux initially so that my wife has a taste and if it doesn't convince her we'll try Windows 7 when it comes out. I've installed and used linux in the past and I don't think we'll be missing any software. I'm just a bit concerned with compatibility though.

I would also need a new case (as small as possible), motherboard, psu, hard-drive (320 or 500GB). Any other essentials?

I'll be using parts of the old PC: network card?, new DVD writer (don't need blueray), keyboard+mouse. I may be dreaming but our budget would be 300-400EUR, ideally closer to 300 to save 200 for a 23-24" monitor. Can this be done for so little considering we don't need a space rocket?

5uspect

First of all AGP is dead. It's all PCI-express now.
On board graphics should do you fine though since you not doing anything intensively 3D.

A good Core2Duo box with about 3GB of RAM and about 1TB harddrive should do you just fine and not cost much. Also you can dual boot Windows and Linux on the same machine so don't worry about that. You can also run a virtual client but that'll complicate things.

Buy a Dell TBH!

jonny72

inigo wrote: »

Originally I thought of replacing our dead PC and old laptop for another laptop, but then my wife decided she didn't want to scrap a laptop that worked (it's USB 1!!! :rolleyes:) and that was also her dad's present. I then came across this forum and was almost instantly lured into building my own PC for the first time. I'm sure many of you have felt like this before?

We would like the computer to last us a few years and we'll be using it for office, web browsing, occasional movie and the like but no gaming at all. The most demanding task would be correcting 4-5MB pictures (while having a large presentation open at the same time), perhaps some video editing, but we are not too impatient either, so we don't need the computer to perform the tasks before hitting the key!

I've been reading this forum and other websites but still have a ton of doubts. If you wouldn't mind helping me with some general ones I would then go and look at specific parts.

Processor: Dual Core, Triple Core? 2.5, 3.0 GHz? AMD instead of Intel (AMD seems to be cheaper)?

Memory: 2,3 or 4MB? Should I leave the door open to 8 for the future?

Graphics card: 512MB? PCI, AGP?

OS: My idea is to install linux initially so that my wife has a taste and if it doesn't convince her we'll try Windows 7 when it comes out. I've installed and used linux in the past and I don't think we'll be missing any software. I'm just a bit concerned with compatibility though.

I would also need a new case (as small as possible), motherboard, psu, hard-drive (320 or 500GB). Any other essentials?

I'll be using parts of the old PC: network card?, new DVD writer (don't need blueray), keyboard+mouse. I may be dreaming but our budget would be 300-400EUR, ideally closer to 300 to save 200 for a 23-24" monitor. Can this be done for so little considering we don't need a space rocket?

Sub 400 euro budget would be very tight. Builds only start to make sense when they reach about 500 euros. Otherwise it is best to stick with dells, or if you know ebay quite well, then you can get v good refurbished deals. Also with a dell you get it and you just switch it on and it works. Building a pc may be fun, a lot of fun, but it will be more expensive (at that budget) and, in my experience, more can go wrong.

Unregistered.

inigo wrote: »

Originally I thought of replacing our dead PC and old laptop for another laptop, but then my wife decided she didn't want to scrap a laptop that worked (it's USB 1!!! :rolleyes:) and that was also her dad's present. I then came across this forum and was almost instantly lured into building my own PC for the first time. I'm sure many of you have felt like this before?

We would like the computer to last us a few years and we'll be using it for office, web browsing, occasional movie and the like but no gaming at all. The most demanding task would be correcting 4-5MB pictures (while having a large presentation open at the same time), perhaps some video editing, but we are not too impatient either, so we don't need the computer to perform the tasks before hitting the key!

I've been reading this forum and other websites but still have a ton of doubts. If you wouldn't mind helping me with some general ones I would then go and look at specific parts.

Processor: Dual Core, Triple Core? 2.5, 3.0 GHz? AMD instead of Intel (AMD seems to be cheaper)?

Memory: 2,3 or 4MB? Should I leave the door open to 8 for the future?

Graphics card: 512MB? PCI, AGP?

OS: My idea is to install linux initially so that my wife has a taste and if it doesn't convince her we'll try Windows 7 when it comes out. I've installed and used linux in the past and I don't think we'll be missing any software. I'm just a bit concerned with compatibility though.

I would also need a new case (as small as possible), motherboard, psu, hard-drive (320 or 500GB). Any other essentials?

I'll be using parts of the old PC: network card?, new DVD writer (don't need blueray), keyboard+mouse. I may be dreaming but our budget would be 300-400EUR, ideally closer to 300 to save 200 for a 23-24" monitor. Can this be done for so little considering we don't need a space rocket?

If you're not going to be requiring the services of a graphics card, then you'll be wanting an mATX mobo (to fit in small case) with integrated graphics. Going down he socket 775 (intel) or AM2(AMD) route will save a bundle thanks to the abundance of mobos and cheaper DDR2 RAM.
Netwok card I'll be built in to the mobi unless you're looking for wireless. HDD, well, take your pick - pick a good manufacturer then pick a size. The pric between all the manufacturers doesn't vary that much. 400watt PSU for sure.
It can be done for under €400 delivered, how much less depends on which processor you go for!

That's my two cents. Solitaire, a genuin man, can better advise you on what parts would suit.

Effluo

Unfortunately your biggest enemy when building a pc like this is the operating system! 65-90 euro for the cheapest versions of vista. You did say there however, that you had a dead pc. You could use that os if you ring windows up and tell them it's dead...

we've had disscussions on this before. If your use of a pc is basic then is there any cost or performance benefit from building your own.

Most people seem to think that a cheap dell is often the best option as when building a pc things can go wrong. some components may end up dead on arrival and it can be just alot of bother and frustrating.

Saying that however, dell pcs can break too!

Unregistered.

Effluo wrote: »

Saying that however, dell pcs can break too!

AND it's far easier to upgrade a machine when you've built it yourself.

Effluo

But building, upgrading or servicing a pc is not for everyone or indeed most people!

it depends on the person.

If the op has a genuine interest in computers/electronics and has a decent understanding of them then, yeah they could do it.

but even after all that costs and risks which is better?
I find it hard to tell but most people do think the dell option is the better one... ???

Solitaire

inigo, what state is the dead PC in? What specs did it have back when it was alive? What operating system did it run, is the case or power supply any good, is the screen a decent size and quality, did it have a DVD burner or just a CD-ROM etc. etc...

The more you can strip off the old machine, the fewer parts you need to complete the new one, pushing the cost down by miles if you can "recycle" the dreaded "budget breakers" - in a basic machine usually the operating system and monitor. But if they're obsolete and clapped-out there's no point in using them in the new machine, and once you reach the point where you have to buy everything new then a good-value Dell/HP can be a much smarter proposition.

inigo

Thank you all for your replies. I thought of building my PC because I need one and it seems like a good challenge. I understand it may be a different beast altogether but I used to enjoy stripping and upgrading my old computer, and installing Linux in it (it was Red Hat at the time, then Fedora) with dual boot and so on. But if you all tell me I'm better off buying something already built I will think twice about it.

By the way, I just come from Carrickmines and I've seen a Packard Bell in PC World with a 2GHz processor, 1GB RAM, 160GB hard-drive for 370EUR stand alone. Would it be possible to build something better for that money or am I wrong to think so?

The old PC is a Dell Optiplex GX270. It powers up but doesn't want to load Windows or even Linux (I tried with the Ubuntu CD). The error mentions a thermal event. I've checked all the fans and they seem to be working fine. If I could rescue it I would hold on to it and postpone building a new one as it was enough for what we need really but I don't know what else to try.

The PC was running Windows XP, which I would have trouble re-installing as it is an ex-office PC. It has an 80 and a 40GB hard-drives, 1 GB RAM (1x512 + 2x256), a new DVD burner I installed myself a couple of weeks before it died, a nice wireless mouse I bought at the same time as the DVD burner and the standard keyboard. I'm not sure about the psu because of the thermal event error message: I read somewhere it could be the cause. The case, well I would hit the engineer who designed it on the head with it: it is one of those with the USB ports at a hopelessly unnerving angle. I don't think I would be salvaging the floppy drive or if there is anything else really. I am also keeping the 19" flat panel monitor it came with as it works fine and we don't need bigger: I am a merely 50cm away from it. (The 24" monitor was for movies and will go on the TV stand with a standard DVD/DivX player with the proper output.)

uberpixie

inigo wrote: »

The old PC is a Dell Optiplex GX270. It powers up but doesn't want to load Windows or even Linux (I tried with the Ubuntu CD). The error mentions a thermal event. I've checked all the fans and they seem to be working fine. If I could rescue it I would hold on to it and postpone building a new one as it was enough for what we need really but I don't know what else to try.

use gx260 and gx270s at: have resurrected one or two by clearing out all the dust out of the heatsink.

Pop her open an blow all the dust out or better yet use a can of compressed air.

by the sounds of it you have a few bits and pieces: dvd drive, mouse keyboard etc..

If you want to build go for it, but Dell are very hard to beat price wise sub 400 euro as stated several times! You will hit 500 easily.

You need at the very least motherboard, ram, cpu, case, power supply. I would throw in a new harddrive if you have a lot of music etc, otherwise you can prob survive on the x2 harddrives you already have.

Unregistered.

I think what most people do is find the PC from Dell or elsewhere, which is most suited to their needs/budget. Then they have shop around for parts to see if they can save money by doing it themselves. You shouls do that. Then it's up to you to decide whether the amount your saving* is worthwhile, for you, in taking the punt over buying a ready made PC.




* If there is a saving.

Solitaire

I remember the GX2*0 series... those crazy cases that weighed three tons and had the USB ports under the hinged front bezel at an insane angle Did lots of work with those. And entirely too much lobbing them around the place! (my poor back... )

IF the monitor is up to snuff then I'll reuse an image I did today:



Add €30 for p&p but subtract €12 for the DVD-ROM which you won't need thanks to the wonders of "recycling" (well, it was practically new!) So it'd be under €270 delivered. Expect the budget to go up to just over €400 if you want to upgrade your monitor to HD1080p as well though. CPU should be in (stock) E5300 ballpark for most things. The onbord video should handle reasonbly heavy 2D work and HD movies fine. Its just a bit sub-par at 3D. Mobo might need a BIOS update though.

I'm guessing the old Opti had a Windows XP installation, right? Is the XP Product Key sticker still on the side? If it is just install XP on the new machine and use the Opti's key to activate via phone. Shouldn't be any issues as the Opti's offline (i.e. dead) so the only installation with that key is the new build

inigo

Now that looks very interesting! Would there be any problems to run such a PC with Linux, say Ubuntu? It's good to know that I should be able to get XP activated with the key in the sticker though.

I've seen the parts are from hardwareversand.de. I haven't read good things about them and would actually like to keep it as local as possible. E.g. I found the same case in dabs.ie for 6 more euro. When I have a bit of time I will try and find the same or similar parts in shops in Ireland so that I can go and collect as many as I can and will post it here.

inigo

To watch movies (we don't have a TV) I thought of one of these:

Samsung
LG

with one of these:

Samsung 1
Samsung 2
Philips

This may not be the right forum but I thought you could advise on the monitor at least.:o

5uspect

Solitaire wrote: »

I remember the GX2*0 series... those crazy cases that weighed three tons and had the USB ports under the hinged front bezel at an insane angle Did lots of work with those. And entirely too much lobbing them around the place! (my poor back... )

We still have a shed load of them in work. Most of them are farmed out to interns now tho.

Solitaire

Get a Blu-Ray for your PC and hook it into the telly :P

Seriously, be careful of the "blade"-loader players like the Samsungs, the tray is flimsy and eventually begins to fail, sometimes causing insane audio distortions in the process :eek:

massy086

http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/2700976/art/lg/w2453v-pf-24-tft-widescre.html its well worth the extra buck i have it and would sell the kids before i part with it lol

inigo

Solitaire wrote: »

Thank you all again for the replies. I've just been reading the sticky about retailers again and I've decided I'm not going to go with hardwareversand. I just wouldn't have the time to sort any problems and I seem to be in a bad run lately as I've had some issues with eBay buys. I've tried to learn as much as possible about specs and standards and have done too much searching for good prices. I've come up with this from elara (the collection option for 1.22 is a nice one!):



Sorry for the quality!

A few notes:

I know my choice may be inferior to the one from solitaire above but if the difference is not big I don't think we will notice to be honest.

I haven't forgotten about the memory. I'll just buy it somewhere else.

I've seen the Coolermaster case in dabs.ie but with the delivery charge I am not sure I'd be better off with this Antec from elara. The following two cases are too big and wouldn't fit under the drawers of my desk! Would the Antec with the PSU I've chosen be too noisy?

All in all it would come at about 275 Euro. Being a newbie I'd be more concerned with any incompatibilities between the parts I may have overseen as well as with Linux.

One last question: do all these parts come with the necessary cables and connectors as well as instructions on how to put everything together?

Solitaire

You also forgot the DVD drive :P

Case is an older type with poor airflow. Might not be a huge issue with a basic system though.

PSU is definitely dodgy. Not sure if it last more than five minutes and/or take all your PC's components with it when it blows as there's no data on any of Trust's PSUs out there, much less the OEM and platform used. The problem with Elara is that the prices of their "real" PSUs will make your eyes bleed

inigo

Thanks solitaire, points taken except for the DVD drive one... I have a nearly new writer ready for the new PC.

I'm afraid I know nearly nothing about parts. Could you please suggest a different (and decent) case and psu from maybe komplett with price similar (or slightly higher) to your original suggestions? Or just a psu from dabs as they do the coolermaster?

How about this from dabs?

marco_polo

inigo wrote: »

Thanks solitaire, points taken except for the DVD drive one... I have a nearly new writer ready for the new PC.

I'm afraid I know nearly nothing about parts. Could you please suggest a different (and decent) case and psu from maybe komplett with price similar (or slightly higher) to your original suggestions? Or just a psu from dabs as they do the coolermaster?

How about this from dabs?

If going with dabs get the 400W Corsair for 47E along with the Coolermaster. EDIT: Actually there is a 350W antec Basic Psu there for 36E anyone know if itis decent, like Earthwatts line is?

I would be a more than a little sceptical about the quality of a 23 euro 650W PSU to be honest.

Solitaire

Including shipping you're looking at €100 to get just the CX400 and the CM330 from Dabs. And that's if the Corsair ever comes back into stock! You'd not be looking at much less from Komplett either even if you get something cheaper than the Antec 300 (prolly something like the Gigabyte tower).

marco: That Basiq is probably a bit naff. They're Antec's naffest line (cheaper than EarthWatts) and the OEM for most of those units is FSP, not Delta, so they're not the best cheapie units in the world given the CX400 has a more appropriate 12V output for this build and better quality to boot for only a few quid more

inigo

Solitaire wrote: »

Including shipping you're looking at €100 to get just the CX400 and the CM330 from Dabs.

Is that too much?

Solitaire wrote: »

And that's if the Corsair ever comes back into stock!

The site says "New product. Image arriving soon. Delivery 3-5 days"

Two important things:

Motherboard: Asustek or MSI?

Memory: Crucial, Kingston ValueRAM or Corsair Value?

It looks like the whole thing could amount to just under 300 Euro. Would you say that it is good value if compared to a "ready-made" PC like a Dell?

Solitaire

Just a little annoying that you have to blow so much more money shopping here in good ol' Ireland, that's all.

inigo wrote:

The site says "New product. Image arriving soon. Delivery 3-5 days"

When HWVS says something like that, it usually comes true.

When Dabs says something like that, it usually doesn't

Motherboard: Asustek or MSI?

Neither. This is fair, but a little pricey. Same here. All of these may require BIOS updates, more importantly the cheapie ones you linked probably aren't compatible with AM3 CPUs. They're very obsolete now

As for memory, whatever is cheapest for 2 sticks of 2GB 800MHz (PC6400) DDR2 RAM. CL5 preferable (most cheap stuff is only CL6)

inigo

Solitaire wrote: »

Just a little annoying that you have to blow so much more money shopping here in good ol' Ireland, that's all.

Tis indeed! Just a little though...:rolleyes:

Solitaire wrote: »

When HWVS says something like that, it usually comes true.

When Dabs says something like that, it usually doesn't

OK, so will this one from elara do the job?

I know this has been going on for a bit. If you just bear with me for just a little longer I think I'm getting there. Thanks again for the help! Much appreciated!!

inigo

After some thought and domestic negotiations I went for this:




It came up to 300 euro without the trip to elara. I then added the DVD writer, mouse, keyboard and monitor I had. There was a small hiccup with dabs and the fact that they could not verify my address initially. They communicated quickly and I was able to get all the parts from both dabs and elara in less than a week from ordering. Two days later I put it all together carefully following the instructions and it just turned on :eek:, no explosions or anything! I have had no problems so far. It is fast and quiet for us.

The Windows OS that I had in the older Dell was 2000 (yes, it was so old!) so I will be installing Linux, most probably Ubuntu or Mint. I have already tried it and everything seems to be working fine. (I will be posting a help call in the Unix forum for recommended hdd partitions.) I have until W7 is released to try and convert the missus... Wish me luck!

Again thank you to all who contributed here and helped me to build my first PC! :P

5uspect

Well you could run the Win7 RC along side the Linux distro and let her decide which is better. Certainly Linux is not always for the faint of heart and Win7 is a breeze.

inigo

5uspect wrote: »

Well you could run the Win7 RC along side the Linux distro and let her decide which is better. Certainly Linux is not always for the faint of heart and Win7 is a breeze.

The idea was to stop using windows, basically because I don't think we need it. I'd be doing all the installing and maintenance whether we have windows or linux. Without wanting to open a debate there are many reasons why I would like to go back to linux. I honestly don't think my wife will have much trouble as she will only be using the PC for the internet, emails, a bit of office and photoshop. Plus after having built the PC, I now need another challenge.

duffman85

Linux Mint is very straight forward to use,the main menu is even similar to the Start Menu in Windows. It'll play mp3s,dvds,flash video out of the box.
Photoshop CS2 runs well on Wine(a program that lets you run some windows programs on Linux) but GIMP or Google Picasa for Linux are also quite good.
OpenOffice has nearly all the functionality of MS Office and is compatible with it too.
Mozilla Thunderbird is the default E-mail client,There is also one called Evolution which looks a bit like MS Outlook.

The only hard part in installing Linux is the partitioning stage,the rest is easy.

Here's 2 screen shots of my desktop,to give you a feel for Mint.






A download link for Linux Mint is in my sig.
Good luck with your new computer!:D

5uspect

inigo wrote: »

The idea was to stop using windows, basically because I don't think we need it. I'd be doing all the installing and maintenance whether we have windows or linux. Without wanting to open a debate there are many reasons why I would like to go back to linux. I honestly don't think my wife will have much trouble as she will only be using the PC for the internet, emails, a bit of office and photoshop. Plus after having built the PC, I now need another challenge.

Linux is great, I don't doubt that and for what you need it should be perfect.
I seem to have misunderstood your post is all!

inigo

Mmm, mint looks nice... or is it your desktop, duffman85? :rolleyes: I think I'm going to go with it.

5uspect, no worries. Apologies if I "sounded" harsh or anything. I didn't mean it like that.

If you wish to suggest how I can partition my hard-drive for the install, please click here.