De-load

itsallaboutheL

What approach do you take to de-loading??

How do you yourself de-load?

all_smilz

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

What approach do you take to de-loading??

How do you yourself de-load?

huh?????? whats de-loading? *i'm not stupid really!*:p

itsallaboutheL

all_smilz wrote: »

huh?????? whats de-loading? *i'm not stupid really!*:p

Basically it's a week off from training. Or a least from the intensity, where you back off your training to let your body get some R and R. Just gives body and mind time to recuperate really.

**Timbuk2**

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Basically it's a week off from training. Or a least from the intensity, where you back off your training to let your body get some R and R. Just gives body and mind time to recuperate really.

Would you reduce the amount you eat to allow you to maintain weight on the week off?

I don't think there is much need for a week off as long as you take breaks in between workouts (body needs time to recover). Needing a week off might be a sign that you're working too hard.

itsallaboutheL

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Would you reduce the amount you eat to allow you to maintain weight on the week off?

I don't think there is much need for a week off as long as you take breaks in between workouts (body needs time to recover). Needing a week off might be a sign that you're working too hard.

Or you're not working hard enough:p:p:D

**Timbuk2**

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Or you're not working hard enough:p:p:D

Touché!

Everytime I get sick and I'm out of the gym for 1-2 weeks I always feel guilty. But I know that you don't start losing muscle until 2 weeks after last working out (with muscle training obviously) - so you probably have nothing to lose with your de-loading plan (apart from a week's training!)

cardio,shoot me

you lose muscle after 2 weeks??, thats bs imo. my brother hasnt done proper weight training in about a year, hes nearly the exact same as when he left.

celestial

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Touché!

Everytime I get sick and I'm out of the gym for 1-2 weeks I always feel guilty. But I know that you don't start losing muscle until 2 weeks after last working out (with muscle training obviously) - so you probably have nothing to lose with your de-loading plan (apart from a week's training!)

Care to explain the science behind that?

brutusthebarber

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

What approach do you take to de-loading??

How do you yourself de-load?

Why do you feel you need a de-load?

Maybe you could try doing exercises you normally wouldnt do (at a lower intensity of course)? Just to give the body a break from the exercises your constantly doing.

Remmy

Does a de-load have to mean actively lifting but with decreased intensity or can it apply to taking time off after a training cycle too?

cardio,shoot me

brutusthebarber wrote: »

Why do you feel you need a de-load?

Maybe you could try doing exercises you normally wouldnt do (at a lower intensity of course)? Just to give the body a break from the exercises your constantly doing.

i may be wrong but isnt that a deload anyway? a break from intensity?

Hanley

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

i may be wrong but isnt that a deload anyway? a break from intensity?

Pretty much....

My deloads depend on what I'm doing...

-Shirted bench - 3 on, 1 off (just doing some light board work)
-Normal raw training ala 5/3/1 - every 4th week deload with 60ish% and do some extra conditioning and tester workous
-Westside; lower volume, lower intensity, stay away from the ME exercise

brutusthebarber

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

i may be wrong but isnt that a deload anyway? a break from intensity?

Maybe I should have left out the "lower intensity" part.

I was just getting at trying something different, it all depends on how much of a rest/de-load is needed. If he is constantly wrecked and it is affecting his intensity in a work out then maybe a week off is needed? All depends on himself really..

Maybe all is needed is a change in exercise? Like for instance if you bench all the time you could try squatting:pac:

cardio,shoot me

Very subtle hint :P, But i kind of agree with you, thats probably how i would structure a deload, just do exercises i enjoy to do that werent in my current program, like i love doing barbell lunges and dumbell rows.

itsallaboutheL

brutusthebarber wrote: »

Why do you feel you need a de-load?

Body is starting to say no, mind is starting to not give a crap= time for de-load!!

I'm having trouble with my elbows and shoulders from all the pressing, i've never really done very heavy benches and heavy BB presses in the same cycle, it's generally either DB bench or DB Press with the other on a BB which i find okay on the joints.

Also motivation is shot to pieces. And i'm really happy with the bench progress i managed lately but not de-loading and just busting on thru with big weight would just end up being detrimental to progress.

I know what you mean tho, i find it very hard to take a step back at times even tho i know its the better option long term.

itsallaboutheL

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

Very subtle hint :P, But i kind of agree with you, thats probably how i would structure a deload, just do exercises i enjoy to do that werent in my current program, like i love doing barbell lunges and dumbell rows.

**** off lads

brutusthebarber

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Body is starting to say no, mind is starting to not give a crap= time for de-load!!

I'm having trouble with my elbows and shoulders from all the pressing, i've never really done very heavy benches and heavy BB presses in the same cycle, it's generally either DB bench or DB Press with the other on a BB which i find okay on the joints.

Also motivation is shot to pieces. And i'm really happy with the bench progress i managed lately but not de-loading and just busting on thru with big weight would just end up being detrimental to progress.

I know what you mean tho, i find it very hard to take a step back at times even tho i know its the better option long term.

From my experience, motivation is tied to tiredness, when you start to feel beat up then you lose the motivation for keeping the high intensity going.

Well if the joints are getting sore from the all the pressing i.e. benching, why not try focusing on the movements the aid these pressing exercises. Keep the intensity low so that it is more prehap work than anything else. All the while getting solid rest and keeping yourself ticking over.

So you won't feel brutal about not doing the gym as your still there, just with a different goal in mind!

itsallaboutheL

brutusthebarber wrote: »

From my experience, motivation is tied to tiredness, when you start to feel beat up then you lose the motivation for keeping the high intensity going.

Well if the joints are getting sore from the all the pressing i.e. benching, why not try focusing on the movements the aid these pressing exercises. Keep the intensity low so that it is more prehap work than anything else. All the while getting solid rest and keeping yourself ticking over.

So you won't feel brutal about not doing the gym as your still there, just with a different goal in mind!

Yes. A de-load!!:cool:

brutusthebarber

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Yes. A de-load!!:cool:

Ha good man, or you could call it a "pre bench specialisation program":cool:

**Timbuk2**

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

you lose muscle after 2 weeks??, thats bs imo. my brother hasnt done proper weight training in about a year, hes nearly the exact same as when he left.

celestial wrote: »

Care to explain the science behind that?

I'm not fully sure of the science, and I think it probably varies from person to person. I heard two weeks off a program talking about body-builders taking holidays or something (ages ago, probably some ITV4 crap). I've also heard figures as high as 3 months.

But it would be wrong to assume that not doing any strength training would leave your muscles the way they were - otherwise people would stay as strong all their lives, which we know isn't true. If this was true, people could bench as much weight as they could years before, assuming their diet is good. Also, people who break bones and and have one of their limbs (e.g. arm, leg) put in a cast notice that when it comes out it has less muscle, from lack of use. If you stop weight training, this is lack of use and muscle mass will reduce.
I'm not sure whether this applies to just muscle or whether it applies to both muscle and metabolic strength.

For example, when I was in the UK studying for my ATPL (airline transport pilot's licence) I didn't go to the gym for about 4 weeks and when I returned I found I wasn't able to deadlift or squat as much I was before I left (also my 20km run time had reduced by almost 2 mins!).

podge57

Im on 5/3/1, so i deload every 4th week. I cut it down to 2 workouts - upper and lower, go light on the main lifts and do other random exercises, with lots of stretching

Definately allows me to recover properly, and i always feel hungry to lift again when i start a new wave

celestial

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I'm not fully sure of the science, and I think it probably varies from person to person. I heard two weeks off a program talking about body-builders taking holidays or something (ages ago, probably some ITV4 crap). I've also heard figures as high as 3 months.

But it would be wrong to assume that not doing any strength training would leave your muscles the way they were - otherwise people would stay as strong all their lives, which we know isn't true. If this was true, people could bench as much weight as they could years before, assuming their diet is good. Also, people who break bones and and have one of their limbs (e.g. arm, leg) put in a cast notice that when it comes out it has less muscle, from lack of use. If you stop weight training, this is lack of use and muscle mass will reduce.
I'm not sure whether this applies to just muscle or whether it applies to both muscle and metabolic strength.

For example, when I was in the UK studying for my ATPL (airline transport pilot's licence) I didn't go to the gym for about 4 weeks and when I returned I found I wasn't able to deadlift or squat as much I was before I left (also my 20km run time had reduced by almost 2 mins!).

You're talking about 3 different things there -

1) loss of muscle mass
2) loss of muscular strength
3) muscle atrophy

For no.1 - this will happen in the form of a certain 'shrinkage' of muscles, i.e. they will appear 'reduced' - this won't happen for quite a while after ceasing weight training - nowhere near two weeks.

no.2 - this happens over a period of weeks/months after ceasing training - but you recover it very quickly - 'muscle memory' kicks in here. Aerobic fitness is lost more quickly - it can reduce in as little as two weeks.

no.3 - this is in relation to muscle wastage where a muscle, when not used for a period of time, literally wastes away through lack of use. Totally different from the other two.

**Timbuk2**

celestial wrote: »

You're talking about 3 different things there -

1) loss of muscle mass
2) loss of muscular strength
3) muscle atrophy

For no.1 - this will happen in the form of a certain 'shrinkage' of muscles, i.e. they will appear 'reduced' - this won't happen for quite a while after ceasing weight training - nowhere near two weeks.

no.2 - this happens over a period of weeks/months after ceasing training - but you recover it very quickly - 'muscle memory' kicks in here. Aerobic fitness is lost more quickly - it can reduce in as little as two weeks.

no.3 - this is in relation to muscle wastage where a muscle, when not used for a period of time, literally wastes away through lack of use. Totally different from the other two.

Meh.. that sounds about right. The second one is probably what I'm referring to, but then what do I know

Roper

There's a few misconceptions about unloading and strength loss here.

Firstly, de-loading or unloadng or whatever you want to call it can mean two things. 1) it can mean the actual cessation of resistance training for a given period, and 2) more colloquially it can mean a light training week after a more intense period.

For muskles (ie. the size of the muscle), the effect of total cessation is minimal until about 3-4 weeks afterwards. A more immediate impact (7-10 days) is neural, and this obviously effects strength. Neural responses deteriorate quite quickly, in spite of what some would say about "muscle memory". So in laymans terms (and sure aren't we all laymen guv'nor), doing nothing for a week won't have a noticable effect on appearance or mass, but could have an effect on strength.

An unload can mean backing off on intensity or volume but usually both. I disagree that it should involve doing something that involves different muscles as a good strength programme should be involving every muscle anyway. But taking yourself to the pool instead of the gym one day might be an idea for example.

In short- deloading good, doing nothing while you deload bad, but not for the reasons you might think.

itsallaboutheL

Roper wrote: »

An unload can mean backing off on intensity or volume but usually both. I disagree that it should involve doing something that involves different muscles as a good strength programme should be involving every muscle anyway. But taking yourself to the pool instead of the gym one day might be an idea for example.

In short- deloading good, doing nothing while you deload bad, but not for the reasons you might think.

funnily enough what i had planned was hitting a few max's followed by prehab/ rehab stuff which i think you've just seconded..

Roper

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

funnily enough what i had planned was hitting a few max's followed by prehab/ rehab stuff which i think you've just seconded..

Explain further before I sue you for implying I agree with you.

itsallaboutheL

We'll say Monday
Bench

Some Activation stuff

Bench
barx20
60kg x 5
80kg x 3
100kg x 3
120kg x 1
135kg x 1
140kg x .......tba

Some Light Incline work


Scap Push-Ups,DB Power Cleans etc

??

the drifter

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

We'll say Monday
Bench

Some Activation stuff

Bench
barx20
60kg x 5
80kg x 3
100kg x 3
120kg x 1
135kg x 1
140kg x .......FAIL

Some Light Incline work


Scap Push-Ups,DB Power Cleans etc

??

fixed for you!

itsallaboutheL

the drifter wrote: »

fixed for you!

I hate you.

brianthebard

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

We'll say Monday
Bench

Some Activation stuff

Bench
barx20
60kg x 5
80kg x 3
100kg x 3
120kg x 1
135kg x 1
140kg x .......tba

Some Light Incline work


Scap Push-Ups,DB Power Cleans etc

??

That's the opposite of a deload.

itsallaboutheL

brianthebard wrote: »

That's the opposite of a deload.

no its not theres no real volume.. no assistance work like its a hell of a break compared to this..

Some Activation Stuff

Bench
Bar x 30
50kg x 10
60kg x 10
80kg x 5
100kg x5

120kg
x5
x5
x4
x3

Close Grip Bench
90kg
3x10*

couldn't be arsed pushin theese tonight so it was 8-2 with a 15 second break as opposed to 10 straight

Bastardised Rolling Tricep Extensions
bar x 20
40kg
4 x 15

brutusthebarber

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

funnily enough what i had planned was hitting a few max's followed by prehab/ rehab stuff which i think you've just seconded..

Why would you hit max's on a supposed deload?

itsallaboutheL

Its one of many approaches

itsallaboutheL

WAIT




http://www.elitefts.com/documents/deload.htm


/Thread

Hanley

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Its one of many approaches

It is?

itsallaboutheL

Hanley wrote: »

It is?

It is now!!

brutusthebarber

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

WAIT




http://www.elitefts.com/documents/deload.htm


/Thread

Ah right.. so your tired from all the maxing out that you do so your going to train and max out but leave the assistance work?
Seems a tad strange way to "deload" but if it works for ya...

itsallaboutheL

Example #2 - Max effort work and dynamic work only, no (or limited) repetition training.
In this example, you are limiting the volume on your accessory work and focusing on the bigger lifts.
Dynamic Bench Training

• Bench Press – 8 sets of 3 reps
• Chest supported rows – 3-4 sets of 10 reps

Max Effort Squat/DL Training

• Rack Deadlifts – work up to a 1RM (standard max effort training)
• Roman Chair Sit-ups – 5 sets of 10 reps

Max Effort Bench Training

• Floor Press – work up to a 1RM (standard max effort training)
• Rear lateral raises – 5 sets of 12 reps

Dynamic Squat Training

• Box Squat – 10 sets of 2 reps @ given percentage
• Glute Ham Raises – 4 sets of 12 reps

Note: When doing your dynamic and max effort training, do not do anymore than you usually would do. This will negate your deload.
The good thing about this example is that you can entirely focus on your big training lifts and then get out of the weight room. The bad thing is that you may not give your body, especially your joints, a rest. This is a good way to deload if your body still feels good and you feel strong, but you know (in your mind and experience) that your body needs to take a little bit of a break. This is a great option if you feel strong as hell in your training cycle and want to continue to ride the wave while still doing a deload. Please note that many times, after training for awhile, people have great success with this method and continue to do this kind of training. The negative effect is that overtime you will lose muscle mass, become de-conditioned, lose work capacity and eventually stall. Also, by not strengthening your body, working weak points and addressing imbalances via the repetition method you are opening yourself up for a host of injuries. Take note of this.

itsallaboutheL

brutusthebarber wrote: »

Ah right.. so your tired from all the maxing out that you do so your going to train and max out but leave the assistance work?
Seems a tad strange way to "deload" but if it works for ya...

Have you looked at my training?????????????????????????????????????

brutusthebarber

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Have you looked at my training?????????????????????????????????????

:DHave you looked at your training????????????????!:cool:

So then your not tired from all the maxing out, so you need a deload week to max out?

Hanley

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Example #2 - Max effort work and dynamic work only, no (or limited) repetition training.
In this example, you are limiting the volume on your accessory work and focusing on the bigger lifts.
Dynamic Bench Training

• Bench Press – 8 sets of 3 reps
• Chest supported rows – 3-4 sets of 10 reps

Max Effort Squat/DL Training

• Rack Deadlifts – work up to a 1RM (standard max effort training)
• Roman Chair Sit-ups – 5 sets of 10 reps

Max Effort Bench Training

• Floor Press – work up to a 1RM (standard max effort training)
• Rear lateral raises – 5 sets of 12 reps

Dynamic Squat Training

• Box Squat – 10 sets of 2 reps @ given percentage
• Glute Ham Raises – 4 sets of 12 reps

Note: When doing your dynamic and max effort training, do not do anymore than you usually would do. This will negate your deload.
The good thing about this example is that you can entirely focus on your big training lifts and then get out of the weight room. The bad thing is that you may not give your body, especially your joints, a rest. This is a good way to deload if your body still feels good and you feel strong, but you know (in your mind and experience) that your body needs to take a little bit of a break. This is a great option if you feel strong as hell in your training cycle and want to continue to ride the wave while still doing a deload. Please note that many times, after training for awhile, people have great success with this method and continue to do this kind of training. The negative effect is that overtime you will lose muscle mass, become de-conditioned, lose work capacity and eventually stall. Also, by not strengthening your body, working weak points and addressing imbalances via the repetition method you are opening yourself up for a host of injuries. Take note of this.

That's an article on de-loading with Westside. You're not doing Westside?

itsallaboutheL

I gonna do it minus the DE day........ I'm not really doing anything like

Hanley

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

I gonna do it minus the DE day........ I'm not really doing anything like

"the bad thing is that you may not give your body, especially your joints, a rest. This is a good way to deload if your body still feels good and you feel strong"

Is that how you feel?

podge57

edit: dammit, i am so slow at putting together a post

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Body is starting to say no, mind is starting to not give a crap= time for de-load!!

I'm having trouble with my elbows and shoulders from all the pressing, i've never really done very heavy benches and heavy BB presses in the same cycle, it's generally either DB bench or DB Press with the other on a BB which i find okay on the joints.

Also motivation is shot to pieces. And i'm really happy with the bench progress i managed lately but not de-loading and just busting on thru with big weight would just end up being detrimental to progress.

I know what you mean tho, i find it very hard to take a step back at times even tho i know its the better option long term.

^^^judging from this post, the option you posted is not a great idea:

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

The bad thing is that you may not give your body, especially your joints, a rest. This is a good way to deload if your body still feels good and you feel strong, but you know (in your mind and experience) that your body needs to take a little bit of a break. This is a great option if you feel strong as hell in your training cycle and want to continue to ride the wave while still doing a deload.

itsallaboutheL

Hanley wrote: »

"the bad thing is that you may not give your body, especially your joints, a rest. This is a good way to deload if your body still feels good and you feel strong"

Is that how you feel?

Ish, i was either saying it to Drifter or i said it in my Log, I feel strong, i'm progressing on everything week to week, but the stuff outside of the main lifts have been killing me for the past week or so. I think a week minus shiite loads of reps would work.....

Like im happy when doing the main lifts but when i start CG Benchin or ****in BTN Presses or Pulldowns or whatever, im startin to get sore and i just wanna go home!!

the drifter

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Ish, i was either saying it to Drifter or i said it in my Log, I feel strong, i'm progressing on everything week to week, but the stuff outside of the main lifts have been killing me for the past week or so. I think a week minus shiite loads of reps would work.....

Like im happy when doing the main lifts but when i start CG Benchin or ****in BTN Presses or Pulldowns or whatever, im startin to get sore and i just wanna go home!!

here is how it went

L: man i think i need to deload i feel like sh*t
Me: whens the last time you deloaded?
L: February some time i think...course it was a week of beer and fags..
Me: i think i see the problem here.....

Dude deload still train but do something fun for a week...the mind gets just as tired as the body...

Roper

Okay there's a legal letter in the post:

ItsallabouttheL,
The Internet.

Dear Sir,
We do not agree, and your deload has not deloaded anything. Please do not agree with me ever again.

your idea of backing off for a week is max effort benching?

kevpants

Holy **** a 140kg bench on a deload!? One thing you yungfla's need to do is back of the guilt at not lifting. WTF does "back off the intensity" mean? You don't slap yourself in the face before you lift the weight but you lift the same weight?

Roper, you were saying doing nothing is a bad idea and I'm sure you're technically right but whenever I deload it's for CNS rather than muscle fatigue reasons and I find just going for walks etc and lifting nothing works for me.

I need one at the moment, heading on hols in a weeks time thank jesus, and I have a constant tingling in my hands and find it hard to perform simple tasks like putting a key in a door.

I also disagree with the "do something different for the laugh" idea. Doing a new movement is pretty stressful on your body. What happens when you do lunges for the first time in ages? You get stiff, that's what. You don't want stiffness on a de-load.

So personally I do f-all but if you want to do something just maybe do a few light benches and stretch. The swim idea is good too.

Roper

kevpants wrote: »

Roper, you were saying doing nothing is a bad idea and I'm sure you're technically right but whenever I deload it's for CNS rather than muscle fatigue reasons and I find just going for walks etc and lifting nothing works for me.

I'll have to go hunting for a paper, but from memory, neural response begins to break down after 7 days or so. In theory, a week off does you no harm. This is disputed by those who say "my bench was fine then I went away for a week and when I came back I was weaker", neglecting the small details like how much alcohol was consumed that week, how little sleep they got and how much dancing with Denise from Blackpool they did while they were in Santa Ponza. Most of the more revealing studies involve injury and strength breakdown in immobilized limbs, very pertinent to me at the moment as I'm currently in a cast, as they tell you the extreme cases of unloading, and the consensus is that some loading during the phase keeps strength up.

I need one at the moment, heading on hols in a weeks time thank jesus, and I have a constant tingling in my hands and find it hard to perform simple tasks like putting a key in a door.

This is the fitness forum so i would have to suggest that it could be Alzheimer's.

So personally I do f-all but if you want to do something just maybe do a few light benches and stretch. The swim idea is good too.

My point above re: Santa Ponza is that to be effective, the deload has to be a good rest. So light benching well below your max- good. mobility and prehab work- good. I still have my guys in on their unload weeks mostly because it means they're not on the couch with a beer/cake/both.

Degsy

Roper wrote: »

This is the fitness forum so i would have to suggest that it could be Alzheimer's.

A freind of mine had the same symptoms and it turned out to be pernicious anemia...tingling in the hands is not a good sign.

kevpants

Degsy wrote: »

A freind of mine had the same symptoms and it turned out to be pernicious anemia...tingling in the hands is not a good sign.

My wife has that.

I know what it is it's the tingly tired feeling you get in your hands after deadlift day but when I'm fried it's there all the time.

Interesting stuff Roper, do you think the immobilised limb study would skew the results in reference to non-immobilized people? I mean surely getting off the sunlounger counts as some kind of loading? Mojito curls?