What does regeneration do for the rest of us?

irishvamp90

I like this to stay on topic,just wondering because im kinda against this regeneration,but what does it do for everybody else in limerick?besides costing alot of time and money what will it do for veryone else in the city across the board,all areas

LadyTBolt

irishvamp90 wrote: »

what will it do for the normal folk

What exactly do you mean by "Normal Folk"?

irishvamp90

just normal every day people in the city,i'll change it if you like

wylo

irishvamp90 wrote: »

I like this to stay on topic,just wondering because im kinda against this regeneration,but what does it do for everybody else in limerick?besides costing alot of time and money what will it do for veryone else in the city across the board,all areas

Well the fact that"everybody else" doesnt have to deal with major social issues day in day out is kind of already a bonus.
The rest of Limerick doesnt have to deal with kids growing up with violent or alcoholic parents, intelligent kids getting involved with wrong groups and being lead into a false realization that there is nothing to encourage them to live a decent honest life.
The fact that everybody else in Limerick was that bit luckier to be born and reared in a nicer area is already a bonus, regeneration gives everybody an equal chance.
What it also does is help with the local construction industry. But just in case you think its all about houses its not, there are many other schemes also getting involved too.
What it will also do for "normal folk" is help reduce crime and violence so you can enjoy living in this city a bit more.

RonMexico

It won't make any difference whatsoever.

Kess73

RonMexico wrote: »

It won't make any difference whatsoever.

The shame is that I would have to agree with this, unless they actually decide to exclude the regular troublemakers and career criminals from the scheme.


It is all well and good regenerating an area, but if you put the same animals backs amongst the good people in those areas, then the cycle will continue.

irishvamp90

i was bought up in raheen/dooradoyle,parents are from town.i had a very good upbringing,good and basic,my parents did the simple things right,carful with money.plenty of us bored growing up in raheen but i didnt use this as excuse,i was good at school but still hated going but was made
Scumbags use the excuse oh we are bored,no chance,we all can go to school.I saw in the paper a write up about early school leavers getting a trip to wales as a reward for going back to school wtf?
Well shouldnt it be about all the youth of limerick?reverse snobbery here

zuroph

pros: The spin quoted above about it reducing crime. dont believe it for a minute, you can already see how well thats going across the city.
cons: Take even more value off our houses we worked hard to pay for.

Ireland is imploding at a terrific rate.

irishvamp90

wylo wrote: »

Well the fact that"everybody else" doesnt have to deal with major social issues day in day out is kind of already a bonus.
The rest of Limerick doesnt have to deal with kids growing up with violent or alcoholic parents, intelligent kids getting involved with wrong groups and being lead into a false realization that there is nothing to encourage them to live a decent honest life.
The fact that everybody else in Limerick was that bit luckier to be born and reared in a nicer area is already a bonus, regeneration gives everybody an equal chance.
What it also does is help with the local construction industry. But just in case you think its all about houses its not, there are many other schemes also getting involved too.
What it will also do for "normal folk" is help reduce crime and violence so you can enjoy living in this city a bit more.

Loads of schemes if you dont want to work.go to school,be a decent person,shur the one about the soccer scheme makes me laugh and sad

Mc Love

irishvamp90 wrote: »

i was bought up in raheen/dooradoyle,parents are from town.i had a very good upbringing,good and basic,my parents did the simple things right,carful with money.plenty of us bored growing up in raheen but i didnt use this as excuse,i was good at school but still hated going but was made
Scumbags use the excuse oh we are bored,no chance,we all can go to school.I saw in the paper a write up about early school leavers getting a trip to wales as a reward for going back to school wtf?
Well shouldnt it be about all the youth of limerick?reverse snobbery here

Bang on there IV90!! Kids in areas like raheen dooradoyle did things like play sports, play amongst ourselves. I remember one summer we had a massive soccer tournament across all the estates in Raheen. was great fun.

Paulegend

wylo wrote: »

Well the fact that"everybody else" doesnt have to deal with major social issues day in day out is kind of already a bonus.
The rest of Limerick doesnt have to deal with kids growing up with violent or alcoholic parents, intelligent kids getting involved with wrong groups and being lead into a false realization that there is nothing to encourage them to live a decent honest life.
The fact that everybody else in Limerick was that bit luckier to be born and reared in a nicer area is already a bonus, regeneration gives everybody an equal chance.
What it also does is help with the local construction industry. But just in case you think its all about houses its not, there are many other schemes also getting involved too.
What it will also do for "normal folk" is help reduce crime and violence so you can enjoy living in this city a bit more.

you idiot............. just because you come from certain areas doesnt mean you have alco parents and a scary life. the exact same as just because some people come from "normal" areas doesnt mean the "normal" people dont have alco parents or a scary violent life. everyone in the city is harrased by these scumbags. not just people in weston moyross or southhill. NOONE HAS IT EASY

also regeneration wont stop the violence. it will spread it. kill the scum is what i say. that should fix it for us all

baza1976

I was infavour of this and in certain points I am for example the houses that the council own in the island are 80years old and are in really bad shape most of them. So these need to be sorted.

But then the houses in moyross are around 20-30 years old.. doesn't seem to be too much wrong with them, I don't think these need to be knocked.

I think rebuild the houses in the island, don't knock anymore in Moyross. Just build a bigger jail and enforce the law, keep the scum off the street. everyone will be happy.

Paulegend

baza1976 wrote: »

I was infavour of this and in certain points I am for example the houses that the council own in the island are 80years old and are in really bad shape most of them. So these need to be sorted.

But then the houses in moyross are around 20-30 years old.. doesn't seem to be too much wrong with them, I don't think these need to be knocked.

I think rebuild the houses in the island, don't knock anymore in Moyross. Just build a bigger jail and enforce the law, keep the scum off the street. everyone will be happy.

well to be honest the regeneration i am in total favour of...... as long as its done right!!

when it was been talked about it was only going to be moyross and nowhere else! then after long discusions the council rolled out plans to do this across the city and do away with HUGE housing estates as these kind of housing estates such as moyross southill and weston bring alot of people together in a conentrated area.

i dont know actual numbers but lets say we have an estate of 200 house and average 4 people per house. that is 800 people in 1 area. of course yopu are going to get scum in that area. it would be a mirical if you didnt have 20 people out of 800. that is 2.4% of the people in that area which is very very small but large enough to cause a problem with crime and petty anti social behaviour.

now when the regeneration is in full trotle you wont have housing estates this big anymore. and ill say this right now with my hand on my heart and i stake my soul on it..... when the regeneration is a thing of the past so will houses on the island! they will turn it into a second city centre. which to be fair is a good idea.

i am in favour of this reboot of our city but i hope the people rebuilding our future plan for the future and dont just try to help their election with promisses.

• we need to plan for rail lines in the city because even if we dont bring the luas here in the next 10 years. what about in 20. at least have a plan for then and not build the new roadsa too small.
• we need youth centres
• we need entertainment facilities such as cinemas, bowling, arcades, snooker/pool halls,

• we need sports facilities to cater for handball, soccer clubs, gaa, and of course rugby

• we need communtity watch scemes to help our gardai with info or temporary holding cells.

now i know we have sports facilities and entertainment places but we dont have enough. did you ever hear the phrae "the devil loves idle hands". well instead of leaving them idle lets bring back the comunity spirit. lets make being from Limerick something to be proud of. lets put up our flags celebrate everthing this city has to offer and be excited about the change that will be in our LADY THAT IS LUIMNEACH

wylo

Paulegend wrote: »

you idiot............. just because you come from certain areas doesnt mean you have alco parents and a scary life. the exact same as just because some people come from "normal" areas doesnt mean the "normal" people dont have alco parents or a scary violent life. everyone in the city is harrased by these scumbags. not just people in weston moyross or southhill. NOONE HAS IT EASY

also regeneration wont stop the violence. it will spread it. kill the scum is what i say. that should fix it for us all

dont call me an idiot when youve obviously no clue of how a society functions. Obviously not everyone living in these areas have "alco" parents. Thats clearly not what I meant. But kids growing up in these areas are disadvantaged and thats a fact, when theyre given no reason or encouragment to stay out of trouble theyre not going to.
just like you wouldnt if you were in that situation.

Paulegend

wylo wrote: »

dont call me an idiot when youve obviously no clue of how a society functions. Obviously not everyone living in these areas have "alco" parents. Thats clearly not what I meant. But kids growing up in these areas are disadvantaged and thats a fact, when theyre given no reason or encouragment to stay out of trouble theyre not going to.
just like you wouldnt if you were in that situation.

well first of all sorry about the idiot remark. secondly its not just those areas. what do you think, just because i wasnt brought up in moyross i was encouraged every day to do better and given reasons to. the only fact is its down to the parents. if you dont want better for your kids then you wont encourage them and instead turn a blind eye. its not just disadvantaged areas where this happens. its just these "disadvantaged" areas are so big we notice it more. i wasnt told growing up that if i break the law ill be punished. im not stupid its obvious youll be punished. what encouragement do you think is needed. these kids are given schooling. what have i been given that these kids havent??? and why do they deserve more than my kids?

Liam Byrne

wylo wrote: »

when theyre given no reason or encouragment to stay out of trouble theyre not going to.
just like you wouldnt if you were in that situation.

I beg to differ. I don't - and never needed - "encouragement" to stay out of trouble. Maybe a few teenage pranks here and there, but definitely nothing serious or dodgy.

Since when do people need reasons or encouragement to be decent folk, treating people with respect and decency, and staying on the right side of the law ?

If we're gone to that stage, there's no hope whatsover.

Berty

What does regeneration do for the rest of us?

It provides employment to those in dire need of it in construction.

It provides modern homes for people whom needs homes because of their circumstances.

It removes St Marys park to a certain extent and replaces it with the NEW regenerated version with social amenities.

It also gives the young the view that its ok to live in a council house because sooner or later the council will build you a fancier new one.

The question also raises another question? Who are "the rest of us?"

"They" are just a way you have of making you feel better about yourself.

"They" are not alcoholics any more than "Us"

"They" do not get an equal chance just because a few schemes are brought on board by the archaic council. They ALWAYS had an equal chance, the amount of schemes and choice of house has nothing to do with it.

It is simply the Ghetto mentality of societ and the council. Pack the away and in droves and then forget about them.

This may change things for everybody but I wont hold my breath.

Like I have always believed, the more you hand people you more they put their hands out.

cancan

wylo wrote: »

dont call me an idiot when youve obviously no clue of how a society functions. Obviously not everyone living in these areas have "alco" parents. Thats clearly not what I meant. But kids growing up in these areas are disadvantaged and thats a fact, when theyre given no reason or encouragment to stay out of trouble theyre not going to.
just like you wouldnt if you were in that situation.

And giving them another free house in the same area helps how?

metamorphosis

irishvamp90 wrote: »

just normal every day people in the city,i'll change it if you like

I'm from a regeneration area. Moved from Tipp as a kid. I'm a certified indoor cycling instructor, almost qualified in my degree area and fitness instruction. Don't speak like a knacker, don't act like a knacker. Sick of the jaw drops i get when people find out where i am from. Some of my best friends are from this area - all have degrees. If that does not make me normal like the rest of those from Raheen, Castletroy, Caherdavin, which btw OP, are becoming very scummy also well then i guess i am not normal.

Please do not use a paint brush.

Anyway back on topic - i have very mixed feelings about the regeneration. The uncertanty is rife really. I mean knocking houses, moving people back in ... will it actually make a difference. I hope that it will do some good seen as so much money is been pummeled into it.

metamorphosis

wylo wrote: »

dont call me an idiot when youve obviously no clue of how a society functions. Obviously not everyone living in these areas have "alco" parents. Thats clearly not what I meant. But kids growing up in these areas are disadvantaged and thats a fact, when theyre given no reason or encouragment to stay out of trouble theyre not going to.
just like you wouldnt if you were in that situation.

I was not disadvantaged growing up at all. Parents have money, i was never deprived. Great schooling and upbringing and nothing but happy memories. Yes there are lots of scum in the area and lots of people who are ' disadvantaged' ... but believe it or not there are MORE people living in this area who are happy to live here. There is a strong sense of community in many of these areas and many great initiatives. for example in moyross there's Corpus christi pipe band and an ace kung fu club.

I no i will never reside here for my life ... or limerick for that matter. I will be up to the capital and the parents back to the family home in Tipp but i was never bullied, never threatened here, have all good memories.

ninty9er

I can see where this is coming from, and I never got the logic of pouring good money after bad in "socially disadvantaged" areas, when nothing was being done to amuse the youth of the middle class areas of the city.

You don't see the City Council pouring money into the North Circular Road, and this is probably why you'll find a high level of recreational drug use amongst very affluent teens creating a "higher class of scumbag" to drag down these areas in the same manner as the minority dragged down the names of St. Mary's, Southill and to a lesser extent Moyross.

Where is the extra support in the average non-disadvantaged community. Given that unemployment is quite high in many of these areas, the money flow from City Hall should be equal everywhere, but getting more results through the utilisation of the unemployed to provide community spirit, where other's provide taxes.

Of course, tell that to anyone bought into regeneration and they'll tell you none of the same problems exist on the Ennis Road, NCR, SCR, Ballinacurra Road. The problem is that they will if these areas continue to be negelcted to pump money into areas that have problems coming out their ears already.

metamorphosis

Nicely put ninety

tomcollins97

Whilst most people who are well brought up do not get into trouble, kids who are badly brought up and neglected have the odds stacked against them. So, how about licences to have kids? And conditions to keep them - i.e. if a parent is an alcoholic or drug addict should they be allowed keep their kids just to neglect them (please don’t tell me that just because people are addicts doesn’t mean their kids aren’t neglected – if a substance is the most important thing in your life then of course your kids will be neglected – they should be the most important thing to a parent)? If a parent has multiple criminal convictions should they have their kids removed as they are a bad role model? etc etc

I really don't think that new houses will solve the problems in Limerick or anywhere else.

Parenting of a good quality is what is needed, and this does not have to mean loads of money and spoilt kids. Instilling in children a good work ethic, knowing what is right and wrong, pride in themselves and their family, a willingness and drive to succeed at anything they do. This is what is needed - not a new house.

I am sick of seeing young girls down in the Crescent pushing kids in prams and sitting about all day in KFC and McD's. Those kids need stimulation, not to be stuck in a buggy stuffing KFC into their mouth while their mother gossips. Parenting is hard work, anything worthwhile is. The mentality of parents in disadvantaged areas needs to change - the parents are the people with the power to change, not the council. Children should not be seen as a way to increase state benefits or a way to get a better house.

Apologies in advance for the rant.

Raiser

In my opinion Limerick was for a long time its own tale of two Cities - Sprawling housing estates showcasing every social disadvantaged negative one could ever conceive of - faced off with leafy estates where Junior Manager Seán thought he had made it cause he owed the Bank as much for his 5 Series BMW as he did for his house..... The two were always mutually exclusive with those that considered themselves to be "well off" always ensuring that they never exposed themselves to the other side of Limerick.

In time the Elephant in the room became to big to ignore and it soon started unsettling the very people who once claimed that Limericks problems were non-existent and simply routinely exaggerated by a wicked, devious media......

There was no real choice to be made regarding regeneration - it was a forced hand decision; act now or else face an escalation in the already apparent social meltdown.

To be honest I think the real actual real fear regarding regeneration should not be centred on its occurrence, progression or results - but on whether or not it can be done properly. I feel that this is a very valid concern given the track records of our idiotic public representatives in this Country - as summarised in the below list.

Things we cannot do in Ireland - A list:


Build actual schools - ie. out of bricks and mortar
Find work for our Builders (ref. point 1)
Get our Gardaí to attend 999 emergency calls
Immunise our Children
Build capable Hospitals
Govern nationally/locally without blatant corruption
Build roads using tax revenue - not dodgy businessmen
Protect the Citizen from serious crime on our streets/estates
Prevent the Catholic Church from abusing our Children
Plan our cites and suburbs to include basic amenities
Remove Public Representatives/Politicians who are clearly incapable/on the take

jbkenn

Two excellent and cohesive posts from tomcollins97 and raiser addressing the real issues facing this city and country.

For the regeneration fans, simple fact, we are bankrupt, we do not have the money to fund this folly, the national debt stands at €66,364,000,000+ and rising, dont believe me, have a look here
http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

jbkenn

Paulegend

jbkenn wrote: »

Two excellent and cohesive posts from tomcollins97 and raiser addressing the real issues facing this city and country.

For the regeneration fans, simple fact, we are bankrupt, we do not have the money to fund this folly, the national debt stands at €66,364,000,000+ and rising, dont believe me, have a look here
http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

jbkenn

while i agree this aint the right time.... the regeneration was planned before the financial crises. houses have already been knocked. we cant stop now. it has to go ahead or it never will. if we keep going we need a plan. 6 months ago the council where under the illusion that the regeneration meant the demolishion of these estates. not the rebuilding. i hope this is not the case now!!!!!

jbkenn

Paulegend wrote: »

the regeneration was planned before the financial crises. houses have already been knocked. we cant stop now. it has to go ahead or it never will.[/B]

The estimated cost of the regeneration programme was €3,800,000,000, We are bankrupt, we have to borrow €30,000,000 per day, just to pay the public service payroll, there is no money, end of...

jbkenn

Itsdacraic

What I can't understand is why people put so much time into replying to such an obvious troll as irishvamp.

Raiser

Itsdacraic wrote: »

What I can't understand is why people put so much time into replying to such an obvious troll as irishvamp.

Irishvamp is fine to be honest - Irishvamp90 though, watch out for her, for she sows the seeds of anarchy and breeds the offspring of the very jaws of Hell.

- Lets just discuss what we like so long as people are interested and entertained? - It'd be da craic, honestly....

wylo

tomcollins97 wrote: »

Whilst most people who are well brought up do not get into trouble, kids who are badly brought up and neglected have the odds stacked against them. So, how about licences to have kids? And conditions to keep them - i.e. if a parent is an alcoholic or drug addict should they be allowed keep their kids just to neglect them (please don’t tell me that just because people are addicts doesn’t mean their kids aren’t neglected – if a substance is the most important thing in your life then of course your kids will be neglected – they should be the most important thing to a parent)? If a parent has multiple criminal convictions should they have their kids removed as they are a bad role model? etc etc

I really don't think that new houses will solve the problems in Limerick or anywhere else.

Parenting of a good quality is what is needed, and this does not have to mean loads of money and spoilt kids. Instilling in children a good work ethic, knowing what is right and wrong, pride in themselves and their family, a willingness and drive to succeed at anything they do. This is what is needed - not a new house.

I am sick of seeing young girls down in the Crescent pushing kids in prams and sitting about all day in KFC and McD's. Those kids need stimulation, not to be stuck in a buggy stuffing KFC into their mouth while their mother gossips. Parenting is hard work, anything worthwhile is. The mentality of parents in disadvantaged areas needs to change - the parents are the people with the power to change, not the council. Children should not be seen as a way to increase state benefits or a way to get a better house.

Apologies in advance for the rant.

Well said, this is what I am talking about. Granted , houses wont solve any problems but as I said earlier there is more to the regeneration than just houses. But i admit, yes, that ALL of the money should be put into social work and schemes etc, unfortunately most of it is going into the houses.

metamorphosis

wylo wrote: »

Well said, this is what I am talking about. Granted , houses wont solve any problems but as I said earlier there is more to the regeneration than just houses. But i admit, yes, that ALL of the money should be put into social work and schemes etc, unfortunately most of it is going into the houses.

Firstly, I agree with tomcollins about parenting. Regardless, good parenting generally results in good kids.

Wylo - again i agree. I just do not see how new houses are going to fix the majority of existing problems. Like i said before there are some great initiatives in these areas and money should be put into these more so. Iv seen some on the fence kids cop themselves on when they get involved in martial arts for example.