mad or not to do start primary teaching

pokerface11

I am thinking of starting a postgrad in primary teaching be it in Mary I or Hibernia. I have an honours degree & currently unemployed. What are peoples opinions on starting a career in primary teaching with the current state of the country, and with current proposals from An Bord Snip? Maybe in 2 years things may be different because there is nothing happening in my current qualification which is in Environment Sector. I think i would be ideal for a teaching profession

bruzz

I think opinions will vary on this. I too am thinking about doing primary teaching. However, I am in a different position to you as I have just a diploma.I wanted to get out in the big bad world and work! Regret not doing it sooner.Will pursue the degree next year anyway.
I think in a few years time things will have changed again.I don't
think anyone knows for sure what the future holds.
I am hoping to do the hibernia course ( this could take some time as many have applied several times). I would say if you really want to do teaching, then go for it. It's not just teaching jobs that are being cut.
As I said, I say responses will vary but that's just my two cents!!

gaeilgebeo

Realisticly I don't think things are going to change in the near future and certainly not in 2 years time. This country will be way over quota of quailified experienced teachers who are unemployed. Classroom numbers are being increased too. Deciding to go into teaching(which many people seem to be now doing?!)is not just as straightforward as it seems. You'll be joining the back of a very very long queue! Also, if you're doing a job interview with a hibernia qualification and another applicant has a B.Ed from St.Pats or Mary I, who do you honestly think will be choosen?
Don't mean to be cynical but can't understand the current epidemic of people wanting to go into teaching! THERE ARE NO JOBS!!!!

J.R.

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

Also, if you're doing a job interview with a hibernia qualification and another applicant has a B.Ed from St.Pats or Mary I, who do you honestly think will be choosen?
QUOTE]

I wouldn't agree with your point on interview selection .....depending on teaching degree & college where qualified from ......I've sat on many interview boards for teachers and the successful candidates have been from St. Pat's, Mary I. Marino, Froebel, Hibernia & UK trained.............no one college stood at as outstanding or 'above the others'........I've seen interviewees from St. Pat's & Mary I who hadn't a clue what they were talking about...not clear on curriculum...class management...special needs....class organisation etc. & I've interviewed excellent (successful) candidates from Hibernia & UK colleges......the opposite has also happened on some occasions.

The College one gets the degree from is not going to automatically get you a job...or have you ranking above others before the interview begins....I think the personality of the individual, knowledge of curriculum & school, interpersonal skills, interest in teaching, being able to work as part of a team, willing to listen to advice, seek help & advice if needed, basic 'cop on' etc. is what gets people the job......that's the way it has been on any interview panel I've ever sat on.

gaeilgegrinds

There are pros and cons for both situations. It all depends on the way the interview panel think!

notabother

I'd say go for it if it's what you want to do. Very rewarding job and according to the census there will be a 20% increase in the number of children attending primary school in the next 5 years or so, 100,000 extra children. I expect that new jobs will have to be created, even if class sizes will still be large.

E.T.

The job situation seems to be really bad at the moment in primary schools - I'm sure everyone read the article in all the papers about the school in Dublin which had over 1200 applicants for one job, and my own school had over 500 applicants for a job this summer (small country school!). This is quite disturbing, especially as everyone seemed to think the job situation this year would be ok, and the trouble would really hit next year. If you really can't see any chance of getting a job in your own area in the coming year or two, it couldn't hurt to apply for the postgrad.

byhookorbycrook

Notabother, under Mc Carthy the ptr is to incease once again, so census figures might count for nothing

likealion

pokerface11 wrote: »

I am thinking of starting a postgrad in primary teaching be it in Mary I or Hibernia.

Are these 2 places the only two you can do the postgrad in Ireland? I know Hibernia starts in Oct and Feb but when does the Mary I course start as I think I would prefer that to be honest. I think I am mad going back to do it too but have been offered a great chance with an incentivised career break so had to take my chacne now

thehamo

just to say that I am an NQt just finsihed hibernia and i cant get a job for love nor money. The situation at the moment is very disheartening. I have applied for well over 100 jobs and not had any interviews. I am at the point now that I have to consider looking for alternative carres, because I cannot sustain waiting around trying to get a job.

elle B

pokerface11, if it is what you think you want to do, try it out. do some voluntary work in a school, they would probably be glad of the help now. I tried it out but I went to a disadvantaged school and a special school to get away from the stereotypical classrom scenario and get a broader picture of different students on different learning levels. It still was interesting and rewarding though I was only helping out. This is what should make you decide, ther eare no jobs i nany career at the mo.
and as for the comment someone made about hibernia, disregard that. I have a friend and a relative both primary principals are both said initially hibernia had alot to prove being an online course but in the past few years are proving well by producing the highly trained teachers with the best of skills and updat eto date training practices. eg white boards ave been on the hibernia curriculum since day 1 and are only being recently introuced in other such colleges. S it is not right to jump and down hibernia college. It is recognised by teh dept. of education and scienceand you do need a degree and honour in honours irish at leaving cert level to get on this course too. along with your training and skills learned on any course, it is you who makes a good teacher or not.

gaeilgebeo

elle B wrote: »

pokerface11, if it is what you think you want to do, try it out. do some voluntary work in a school, they would probably be glad of the help now. I tried it out but I went to a disadvantaged school and a special school to get away from the stereotypical classrom scenario and get a broader picture of different students on different learning levels. It still was interesting and rewarding though I was only helping out. This is what should make you decide, ther eare no jobs i nany career at the mo.
and as for the comment someone made about hibernia, disregard that. I have a friend and a relative both primary principals are both said initially hibernia had alot to prove being an online course but in the past few years are proving well by producing the highly trained teachers with the best of skills and updat eto date training practices. eg white boards ave been on the hibernia curriculum since day 1 and are only being recently introuced in other such colleges. S it is not right to jump and down hibernia college. It is recognised by teh dept. of education and scienceand you do need a degree and honour in honours irish at leaving cert level to get on this course too. along with your training and skills learned on any course, it is you who makes a good teacher or not.

As thehamo said, they've applied for well over 100 jobs and has not been called for any interviews. While I completely agree with you about its the person who makes a good teacher, the statistics speak for themselves. I am a secondary school teacher but have family and many of my closest friends in primary school teaching and they all agree that it is more difficult for someone with a hibernia qualification to get a job. It will be especially difficult in the current climate. I'm not "downing" the hibernia course, just stating a fact.

gaeilgegrinds

Are there any stats to back this up? My mother has employed 4 of 5 newbies with Hibernia qualifications as her latest teachers and my aunt has only employed them since they started coming out qualified. I've no experience of anyone who did Hibernia sitting on the shelf but 3 of my friends from school who went straight to training college are now unemployed after taking a year out...

gaeilgebeo

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

Are there any stats to back this up? My mother has employed 4 of 5 newbies with Hibernia qualifications as her latest teachers and my aunt has only employed them since they started coming out qualified. I've no experience of anyone who did Hibernia sitting on the shelf but 3 of my friends from school who went straight to training college are now unemployed after taking a year out...

Well you clearly have a lot of family who are principals and who only employ hibernia grads. That is not the case in the 4 primary schools in our town. And from conversations with my friends who are primary teachers. I'm just going on that. I also have 2 very good friends who've done hibernia and as stated by previous threadrers, they've had difficulty securing interviews let alone jobs! They obviously haven't applied to your mother or aunts schools!:P Anyway, as i've said before, I'm not running the course down, as I do believe that its not just your qualifications that make a good teacher!

luckat

Do what you love. That way you'll get work, even if it's part-time at first, and then you'll gradually move up. If teaching is what you really love to do, go for it.

gaeilgebeo

luckat wrote: »

Do what you love. That way you'll get work, even if it's part-time at first, and then you'll gradually move up. If teaching is what you really love to do, go for it.

Totally agree!!! :P

TaxiManMartin

Friend of mine is a vp in a fairly big school in Dublin.
My sister was picking his brains on becoming a teacher.

He said that Fully qualified people are the only ones with even a sniff of a chance of a job.

Very few schools are hiring now.

Any that are have hundreds of applicants for jobs.

He can only see it getting worse and told her not to even bother trying to get into teaching.

Oh and he laughed at her when she mentioned hibernia. Said if he could swap the hibernia ones he already had out of the school, and some new people in he'd be delighted. His final quote was good "Only a hibernia teacher rates hibernia teachers."

gaeilgegrinds

Looking at the bigger picture all the teachers they hired had some serious experience, both as teachers, or in other fields, one was a nurse who had branched out into social care in a facility for children and returned to do Hibernia. I think it's all about experience. And none went back to repeat Irish, all had pretty much fluent Irish. So maybe the candidates they chose were the exceptions! I don't know who they were up against!

elle B

TaxiManMartin wrote: »

Friend of mine is a vp in a fairly big school in Dublin.
My sister was picking his brains on becoming a teacher.

He said that Fully qualified people are the only ones with even a sniff of a chance of a job.

Very few schools are hiring now.

Any that are have hundreds of applicants for jobs.

He can only see it getting worse and told her not to even bother trying to get into teaching.

Oh and he laughed at her when she mentioned hibernia. Said if he could swap the hibernia ones he already had out of the school, and some new people in he'd be delighted. His final quote was good "Only a hibernia teacher rates hibernia teachers."

everyon'e entitled to one's own opinion Taximan Martin and that is yours r e hibernia teachers... I am not a hibernia teacher rating a hibernia teaacher! I am in a completely different line of work but have heard great reports of hibernia teachers' skillset. Just passing on what I have been told re hibernia...after all that's what boards.ie is about to provide info.
point to note how and ever re no jobs out there and currently alot of graduates up for any temporary jobs going. then again same for every job.
cheers

TaxiManMartin

elle B wrote: »

ust passing on what I have been told re hibernia

As am i. But it looks like most people agree that their are more difficulties getting a job for hibernia grads.

elle B

yeh I hear ya, most do have not so good opinion of hibernia as it is non line mostly and teaching is all about communication. can see the logic behind it alright. I guess if in a jb hold onto it for now til things phase out...

Rosita

TaxiManMartin wrote: »

Oh and he laughed at her when she mentioned hibernia. Said if he could swap the hibernia ones he already had out of the school, and some new people in he'd be delighted. His final quote was good "Only a hibernia teacher rates hibernia teachers."

I am surprised at this because it implies strongly that the period of training of a teacher is more important than their personality or adaptability which I always thought or assumed was a huge part in making a teacher.

On another note - bearing in mind that there is bound to be a slight element of intellectual snobbery towards Hibernia - is higher education now the only sector in Ireland where graduates of state run facilities look down on their private counterparts? Normally people are queuing up to bore you with "I'm in the private sector, I'm a real risk-taker and I'm great because standards there are so much higher and everyone has to work so much harder than that over-paid under-worked unsackable crowd in the public sector", but in terms of educational qualifications it seems to be a different matter.

Perhaps if we ever get to the stage where the majority of students are in privately-run institutions the general consensus will shift the other way as I suppose people tend to rate whatever they have been through themselves.

Just for the record I am neither a primary teacher nor a prospective one, so what I say is genuinely impartial.

TaxiManMartin

Rosita wrote: »

I am surprised at this because it implies strongly that the period of training of a teacher is more important than their personality or adaptability which I always thought assumed was a huge part in making a teacher.

On another note - bearing in mind that there is bound to be a slight element of intellectual snobbery towards Hibernia - is higher education now the only sector in Ireland where graduates of state run facilities look down on their private counterparts? Normally people are queuing up to bore you with "I'm in the private sector, I'm a real risk-taker and I'm great because standards there are so much higher and everyone has to work so much harder than that over-paid under-worked unsackable crowd in the public sector", but in terms of educational qualifications it seems to be a different matter.

Perhaps if we ever get to the stage where the majority of students are in privately-run institutions the general consensus will shift the other way as I suppose people tend to rate whatever they have been through themselves.

Just for the record I am neither a primary teacher nor a prospective one, so what I say is genuinely impartial.

There was no snobbery about it.
He was actually making the point on the quality and length of the training, rather than the type of training. He said the quality of the hibernian graduates just does not compare with those who are fully qualified.
And now that there is no shortage of teachers anymore, he doesnt have to put up with having to hire them anymore.

Rosita

TaxiManMartin wrote: »

There was no snobbery about it.
He was actually making the point on the quality and length of the training, rather than the type of training. He said the quality of the hibernian graduates just does not compare with those who are fully qualified.
And now that there is no shortage of teachers anymore, he doesnt have to put up with having to hire them anymore.

I'd say there is snobbery about it. There's always snobbery about theses things. Otherwise he would have also dismissed the graduates of the post-grad courses in the colleges like St Pats/Mary I which run for the same length of time as Hibernia as being inadequately trained.

The use of the phrase "fully qualified" is gas, because the average Hibernia graduate will be more educated than most of their peer group in a school considering that they will have had a primary degree in the first instance. And let's remember that there are many principals/vice-principals out there who did just a two-year diploma (which was the case until the mid-70s) and were "fully qualified" at 19/20. Many such people are by the standard your man applies inadequately trained and by general standards rather moderately educated.

I spoke to a Principal teacher in a local primary school last Autumn and he said he didn't rate Hibernia because "I know nothing about the internet". He then conceded that he had a teacher in the school who came that route and was very good. But he was dismissing the course from a position of utter ignorance of it. There would be a lot of that about I'd say.

Fair chance the teacher you cite doesn't have the first notion either of what goes on in the training for that course but is welded to a particular point of view and if a Hibernia graduate walked on water he'd say it was because he couldn't swim.

TaxiManMartin

Rosita wrote: »

I'd say there is snobbery about it. There's always snobbery about theses things.

The man doesnt have a bad (or snobby) bone in him.

Rosita wrote: »

Otherwise he would have also dismissed the graduates of the post-grad courses in the colleges like St Pats/Mary I which run for the same length of time as Hibernia as being inadequately trained.

He did. But i thought we were specifically talking about the Hibernia grads here.

Rosita wrote: »

The use of the phrase "fully qualified" is gas, because the average Hibernia graduate will be more educated than most of their peer group in a school considering that they will have had a primary degree in the first instance.

Im highly educated in IT. It doesnt make me a good teacher though. And i would think a 2 year teaching course would not make as good a teacher as someone who did 4 years training to be a teacher, IT degree or not.

Rosita wrote: »

And let's remember that there are many principals/vice-principals out there who did just a two-year diploma (which was the case until the mid-70s) and were "fully qualified" at 19/20. Many such people are by the standard your man applies inadequately trained and by general standards rather moderately educated.

I thought it was nearly 2010 now. They should be well able to teach by now i think.

Rosita wrote: »

I spoke to a Principal teacher in a local primary school last Autumn and he said he didn't rate Hibernia because "I know nothing about the internet". He then conceded that he had a teacher in the school who came that route and was very good. But he was dismissing the course from a position of utter ignorance of it. There would be a lot of that about I'd say.

Well i suppose not everyone is coming from a position of ignorance.
I can see you love to presume.

Rosita wrote: »

Fair chance the teacher you cite doesn't have the first notion either of what goes on in the training for that course but is welded to a particular point of view and if a Hibernia graduate walked on water he'd say it was because he couldn't swim.

Its more likely he knows because he works and has been working with graduates who took all paths into education for many years, so has seen first hand what quality teachers come from what source.

Instead of making assumptions about someone you dont know and have never met, why not just read the posts here and you can see the difficulty teachers from the hibernia course are having. Thats not to say that all unemployed teachers are finding it hard to get jobs now, people who did the easier course are definitely starting from behind.

There is no longer a shortage of teachers, so those doing a quick 2 year course to get themselves into teaching jobs will now be up against a lot of teachers who did their primary degrees in teaching. Who would you rather have? Someone who went out and tried the private sector but couldnt hack it, so now wants to take the easy route into it or someone who wanted to be a teacher from the off and went about it as their primary career choice?

Rosita

TaxiManMartin wrote: »

I thought it was nearly 2010 now. They should be well able to teach by now i think.

Don't be so coy about the date - you are correct, it's August 2009. But thanks for making my point for me in a nutshell.

People develop quite quickly through experience - which is why your friend's blind spot of dismissing people as teachers on the basis of the length of their academic course is bunkum.

I'd say you could teach all that can be taught to a person about teaching in 18 months - which is more teacher training than any secondary teacher has. The rest they must learn through experience at the coalface as they go along.

TaxiManMartin

Rosita wrote: »

Don't be so coy about the date - you are correct, it's August 2009. But thanks for making my point for me in a nutshell.

People develop quite quickly through experience - which is why your friend's blind spot of dismissing people as teachers on the basis of the length of their academic course is bunkum.

I'd say you could teach all that can be taught to a person about teaching in 18 months - which is more teacher training than any secondary teacher has. The rest they must learn through experience at the coalface as they go along.

Wow. Not a very bright post. Speaks volumes.

Rosita

TaxiManMartin wrote: »

Wow. Not a very bright post. Speaks volumes.

Just chewing the fat - no need for the personal stuff.:(

thehamo

Lets just get our facts straight here please.

Taximan, you mentioned in one of your posts that Hibernia Students are not fully qualified. We actually are, were as qualified as the people who did the 3 year degree (not 4) in pats. Also, Hibernia are not the only post grad, there are post grad courses in Pats, Mary I, Frobel, Marino. Each one of them takes people in from a variety of different backgrounds. They do a 2 year post grad, with the students having no experience in teaching, exactly the same as Hibernia. Does that make them unfit to teach also?

The last school I was in interviewed for 7 temp jobs. There were 4 teachers already in the temp jobs, all Pats graduates, and had to re-apply. 3 of them lost their jobs to Hibernia graduates. It all comes down to personal experience.

Another thing I know plenty of people, outside of the Hibernia course, i.e. the state controlled colleges, who can't get work, simply because of the pure volume of graduates, and the sheer lack of jobs.

People tend to make their minds up with very ill informed information on this thing. I never once stated its because I am a Hibernia graduate that I cant get a job, my words were totally taken out of context there.

hot chick

There are good teachers and bad teachers irrespective of where they trained.
It is quite natural to want to judge all graduates of a particular college as incompetent if that has been your only experience of them.
Natural, but in no way wise, and not what I would expect from a good Principal/teacher/leader of any sort.

Every single teacher (B.Ed/Post Grad/Online/SCITT etc etc) has qualified and deserves to be judged on their own merits.

To be perfectly honest while I understand you have the utmost respect for your principal friend Taximanmartin, he sounds like he has been worn down and disillusioned. If your sister really wants to become a teacher then she should. Teaching is not about where you qualify or how quickly you land a permanent job and climb the ladder, it's about doing a job you love, and driving home from work happy (most the time), and if you're suited to it it's a fantastic job.

dg647

Rosita wrote: »

I'd say you could teach all that can be taught to a person about teaching in 18 months - which is more teacher training than any secondary teacher has. The rest they must learn through experience at the coalface as they go along.

Can you back this statement up with facts?