DOE for campers

decci

think windows are perspex out of 1988 caravan

killalanerr

where would i get a cert for my windows, im goin to ask billy from the rsa this very question http://www.rsa.ie/SERVICES/upload/File/VT/VI%2007-09%20Testing%20of%20Campers.pdf i think we all should give billy a call and ask him how he came up with this gem

SonOfPerdition

I've just had a DOE test center refuse to test my vw t25 that i bought last weekend. I had it booked in today for an engineers report as required by dolmen insurance.

when i rang last week i was asked to print out the report from dolmens insurance and bring it with me so i expected them to just do what was required in the report.

when i arrived, the glazing part of the DOE test was pointed out to me. I specified i wasn't there for a DOE test but for an engineers report specifically for my insurance. He didn't even look at the van just simply kept pointing at his copy of the DOE test and refused to do any test with out the glazing report. Now i'm stuck trying to find somewhere to carry out an engineers report for my insurance. I think my next step is to try to get a report at a main dealers.

but .. what are my options regarding the glazing for future DOE testing?


SOP

Slidey

Just go to any SIMI garage and they can fill out the report for you.

It does not have to be done at a DOE station. If it has glass in the windows get it inspected by any windscreen fitters, I would imagine they will be able to say if it is safety glass or not.

SonOfPerdition

Slidey wrote: »

Just go to any SIMI garage and they can fill out the report for you.

It does not have to be done at a DOE station. If it has glass in the windows get it inspected by any windscreen fitters, I would imagine they will be able to say if it is safety glass or not.

thanks Slidey, I will start ringing SIMI garages tomorrow. the problem with my windows is that they are all plastic in the rear and how would i get that certified? i'm thinking that my new camper is gonna cost me a lot more money than i bargained for if i have to replace it all.

loobylou

Check back recent threads, (last 6 months), but I'm pretty sure that any legitimate garage can fill out that form for you. I think what was posted was that once they had a VAT no. they were acceptable to the insurance company.

salamander27

SonOfPerdition wrote: »

He didn't even look at the van just simply kept pointing at his copy of the DOE test and refused to do any test with out the glazing report.

Surely He could have done the test anyway and gave you a cert when you get a report for the windows?

Anyway i'm screwed. My yoke aint going to pass a doe any time soon! Got a bit of welding to do before i tax it next year.:o

The thing that is bothering me is that I have heard nothing from officialdom. No letters, adverts, nothing? I mean they have my address so a letter would be nice!

Slidey

I think the DOE centres were lucky to get an email.

Such is the RSA

SonOfPerdition

salamander27 wrote: »

Surely He could have done the test anyway and gave you a cert when you get a report for the windows?

Not according to the tester i was talking to. What annoyed me is that i had booked in for an engineers report for the insurance, not the DOE. I just happened to be using a DOE center. I even showed him the Dolmen insurance form i was requested to bring with me but it was like talking to a wall. I just could not get through to him and when I asked to speak to the manager who i'd booked the test with I was told he'd gone home for the day. It was one of the most frustrating experiences i've ever had.

anyways, i have it booked in with a simi garage on friday morning, thanks to the advice on this forum.

Anyway i'm screwed. My yoke aint going to pass a doe any time soon! Got a bit of welding to do before i tax it next year.:o

i'm in the same boat, it looks like i'll need to get the rear windows replaced for the DOE. luckily the camper is taxed until april next year so i've a bit of breathing space as far as the DOE is concerned.

zagmund

Can someone remind me again if there's a problem for campervans that are already taxed, insured, etc . . . and not specifically just for vehicles/conversions that are being insured or taxed for the first time and need an engineers report ?

If I don't bring my vehicle to a DOE testing centre and don't get it tested, is the Garda on the street going to be aware that the DOE is required ?

z

decci

dont want to sound thick but are some non glass windows not up to standard like all mine have written on them is poly plastic is their some plastic type windows that might be turned down i just thought glass windows would have been more of a issue than plastic ones

Billy Bunting

my windows all have a safety symbol stamped in each corner.

salamander27

Billy Bunting wrote: »

my windows all have a safety symbol stamped in each corner.

My windows got a safety stamp too but have cracked from the heat of the cooker. Doubt they'd like that!

loobylou

zagmund wrote: »

If I don't bring my vehicle to a DOE testing centre and don't get it tested, is the Garda on the street going to be aware that the DOE is required ?

z

The short answer to that is ..no.

Karg

Hi all, Firstly I just want to say that even though my camper is likely to fail the test, I think that, in principle at least the test is a good idea. However that being said, what I cannot get my head around is how they are able to impose this without any notice to Camper owners.

The first seemingly official notification about this (correct me if I'm wrong please) seems to come from the road safety authority in a letter dates the 21st July 2009. http://www.rsa.ie/SERVICES/upload/File/VT/VI 07-09 Testing of Campers.pdf. I happened on this by accident, as a registered camper owner - I am as yet to receive anything official to myself personally notifying me about it. What astounds me is that when one looks into this circular and the Regulations that it falls under, we can see that it is the S.I. No. 771 of 2004, European
Communities (Vehicle Testing) Regulations 2004. Google this and it will bring you into the Irish Statute book http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/si/0771.html . Have a look through this document and you find it is dated 8th December 2004 Minister for Transport Martin Cullen.
Unless I have been living on a different planet from everybody else, I have not over the last - nearly 5 years - that they have known about this, received any notification that this existed in relation to Campers. How many of ye, like myself, have bought campers that were good enough to pass an engineers report, but most likely will not stand to the rigours of a very heavy HGV Test especially when you factor in this window thing, speed limiter, tachographs etc.

Sorry about the long message but my argument is that this has been in the governments knowledge for the last nearly five years. I for one, would have been quite happy with that level of warning to have bought a different vehicle or got my one up to scrath for the test. Instead I, like ye, find that though we are taxed and insured, we are now driving around illegaly and the people that made this illegal could of giving us 5 years warning...

Again, I want to reitterate that I do not refute the safety argument, however is it even legal or constitutional to impose this on us without any advance warning, when people who have engineers reports, who are taxed and insured now find themselves breaking the law through no fault of their own. Are there any solicitors/people in the know out there with campers who can give us their take?

Can we - the camper owners - do anything about this - even just get a period of grace?

zoltar_boi

I contacted the RSA (the man named in the circular as the contact for queries), and received the following in relation to windows in motorhomes:

"Non-glass glazing must be of an automotive standard, hence the requirement for proof that it is not likely, if fractured, to produce fragments capable of causing severe cuts. Many factory-built motor caravans have non-glass glazing that carries an E-mark. If this E-mark is to Regulation 43 (marked as “43R”, it meets the requirement for automotive standard glazing and no further documentation is necessary. If no marking is evident, it is the responsibility of the owner/presenter to prove the glazing is safe to automotive standards."

Typically :mad:, none of my windows are marked this way, so it's off to the manufacturers for information.

2 stroke

Lets not be shoehorned into a annual doe test. write/email the rsa, local politicians and demand a proper, fair camper test be introduced. As most campers are low milage, there is no need for for an anual test. However there are dangerous campers out there, and there is need for a proper test. Many of us have paid substantial sums of vrt, now its time to get value for money.
Btw passing a doe test isnt difficult, a vehicle can pass it and need brake pads and shocks a month later. If your van is road legal it should pass, other than the window thing.

Karg

Anyone heard the Motorcaravans' Club take on this? Haven't been able to find anything on their website?

Billy Bunting

I received this the other day.......

to all members and friends
There is a lot of talk about a motorcaravan Road test at this point in time, there was a directive by a Billy Barry from the RSA sent to all DOE testing centres that campervans were to be tested commercially. We have good advice, There is no category that motorcaravans can be tested under at present, as all motorcaravans are private vehicles taxed privately with private insurance. The NCT can not nor have they the facility to test motorcaravans. The Revenue have classed all motorcaravans as private and taken VRT at between 13.5 % and 36% , this will have to be refunded if motorcaravans are commercial. There is a lot at stake here and we are taking legal action to have a fair and equitable testing category brought in.
Our legal Team are preparing an action which will take place after the present Summer law recess end of September. By then we will have our case prepared. Hang in there and we will achieve something positive IF WE ALL STICK TOGETHER. Join www.irishpeoplesunion.com from Monday it will be a powerful soap box. We have a long way to go even as far as Europe for justice, we get law in Ireland (Too much of it,) but we seldom get justice. We hope the People of Ireland unite, it’s time we the people recover our voice. We are the power, politicians ore the instrument and when they get inept and sometime corrupt we have to get rid of them.
Bill Lupton

Link didnt seem to work, have replied for further info, nothing as yet.

Karg

Hi Billy, thanks for that, Definitely think we all need to stick together, I myself am under 3.5 but many I know over it and they are most definitely going to fail under the rigours of the HGV test, please keep us posted! Thanks, Karg

Billy Bunting

Before i done my conversion i bought a Talbot Autosleeper, didnt realise new owners needed to test / engineers report, i made the mistake of putting it into the DOE, it was wrecked by them and then given a fail.
No bloody way do i want them battering ****e out of another one. :mad:

:eek:

Karg

Apparantly the HGV is really tough on the vehicles, it's not necessary for vehicles that probably do less than 5k a year!! I don't think anyone is arguing a fair test - thats all we want!

Slidey

I dont think the HGV is really tough on vehicles. No more so than the LGV.

Infact I would probably be more leniant with a HGV then with some builder who lands in with a transit full of half eaten sambos and tea stains.

The only real difference between the 2 tests really is the fact that brakes are worked out on the presented weight in LGV and on the manufacturers DGVW in the HGV.

This in essence means that the HGV's get chained down to get them to the GVW where as the LGV gets its brake readings worked out from it weight on the day of the test.

Karg

Hi Slidey, the local DOE centre today that the HGV is far more rigourous on the vehicle suspensions/underworkings etc as designed to take up to and in excess of 20 tonnes - I wouldn't like to be subjecting something 4 -5 tonnes under that level of shaking!

Billy Bunting

My camper did 2500 miles last year, i don't want my kids in an unsafe vehicle, i would volutery test it, but it needs to be sympathetic to what the vehicle actually is and does, maybe its milage between test could be an indicator of the severity of a test. .

Slidey

Its relative really, as a tester you test vehicles on their design.

Yes, that plates can put a lot of pressure on the vehicle but using common sense is what is key. Most (I know there is thickos out there too) testers wont dog a lighter vehicle like you would a 7.5t axle on a tipper.

The sprinter that falls into the heavy category is virtually the same at the front as the lighter version and I have never come close to damaging one.

Slidey

Billy Bunting wrote: »

My camper did 2500 miles last year, i don't want my kids in an unsafe vehicle, i would volutery test it, but it needs to be sympathetic to what the vehicle actually is and does, maybe its milage between test could be an indicator of the severity of a test. .

Well I would normally take this into account and every year I get a cattle truck in that does less than that in the 12 months but you when you dont know a vehicle who is to say what mileage it is doing or if it has been clocked...

Karg

If all testers take that stance wouldn't be so bad...here's hoping

Karg

Billy Bunting wrote: »

My camper did 2500 miles last year, i don't want my kids in an unsafe vehicle, i would volutery test it, but it needs to be sympathetic to what the vehicle actually is and does, maybe its milage between test could be an indicator of the severity of a test. .

I think that would be satisfactory to everyone, I still can't get over that there has been nothing from officialdom about this though as I was saying earlier above

killalanerr

the more i think about this the less it stands up ,our camper vans are not comercial vehicles and should not be tested as one,this again doing it the irish way,

the DOE will have to quote the EU law this test comes from and not just send a directive,just cos the rsa make a directive does not make it a law ,their is a need for a lobby group to represent the motorhome people ,as has been asked what are the clubs saying on the matter