DOE for campers

killalanerr

can anyone clear this up i have seen reports that all campers not just vans over 3.5tons will need to have a doe from 15th july,if this is so it will cost 100e to have done and has to be done every year not like the nct,

Aidan_M_M

killalanerr wrote: »

can anyone clear this up i have seen reports that all campers not just vans over 3.5tons will need to have a doe from 15th july,if this is so it will cost 100e to have done and has to be done every year not like the nct,

It's definitely true . And it's actually been in force for a while now , but the various govt. agencies (RSA , DOT , Tax office etc) obviously have their heads up their holes as it hasn't been enforced . It is every year , and will be done in DOE centres . However , I have been discussing a lot of issues with the RSA and they don't have a complete understanding of Campers . So its gonna be messy....

blackiebest

Aidan, will that apply to my Irish reg 1987 T25 VW? Or is it only for campers over 3.5 T

Thanks

killalanerr

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

It's definitely true . And it's actually been in force for a while now , but the various govt. agencies (RSA , DOT , Tax office etc) obviously have their heads up their holes as it hasn't been enforced . It is every year , and will be done in DOE centres . However , I have been discussing a lot of issues with the RSA and they don't have a complete understanding of Campers . So its gonna be messy....

thanks for the reply but again it does not clear it up,like is it or is not been enforced and what does messy mean,gov agencys are saying one thing the doe centers say another,any one on here have one done on a van under 3.5 tone and if so what is tested and did it pass

Aidan_M_M

killalanerr wrote: »

thanks for the reply but again it does not clear it up,like is it or is not been enforced and what does messy mean,gov agencys are saying one thing the doe centers say another,any one on here have one done on a van under 3.5 tone and if so what is tested and did it pass

I'm sorry if my answer isn't clear , but neither were the replies I got from the RSA or the Dept of Environment or the DOE Test Centres locally . Messy as in the RSA seem to have no concept of the difference between a camper and a Commercial van , they want to test our campers under commercial vehicle rules , yet they are passenger vehicles , they don't know about the AL-Ko chassis'd ones that don't have the original Van chassis , and they can't tell m if the LHD campers that are so popular need to have the headlights changed or if BeamBenders will work , if the Foglight and Rev. Light will need to be swopped side to side , and what they'll be looking for in the floor structure of campers with a Timber floor on the chassis rails , like the Granducas and so on.


I'm actually in favour of Testing , but it should have been introduced years ago , when they started getting popular , and I think every year is a bit much .

loobylou

Ordinary (commercial) vans are DOE'd every year. You do not need to display a disc in the window as with the nct, but you cannot renew the motortax without the cert.
As things stand at present, (I re-newed my tax yesterday), you do not need a DOE certificate to tax a campervan.

Aidan_M_M

loobylou wrote: »

As things stand at present, (I re-newed my tax yesterday), you do not need a DOE certificate to tax a campervan.

Agredd , taxed one only a short time ago . Thats what I mean about it being up in the air still .

killalanerr

Aidan i do agree with and understand the need for a test,
but i to have just taxed my van and their was no mention of a doe,
i just want to keep every thing in order if i need a test i will get one but after reading reports of campers been stopped at check points and been asked for the doe it would be nice to have this cleared up so i know where i stand if i am stopped over the coming weeks,

so it seems to be a case of watch this space and wait for the powers that be to get their house in order

loobylou

It's being reported on another forum that this has been introduced, effective yesterday.
I can't see anything on the Dept. Transport website so who knows.
As to your chances of getting stopprd at a checkpoint and asked for the cert., I would say pretty low. I have never been asked to produce my commercial vehicle one (other then when taxing it). I don't even bother to keep it in the vehicle.
As to the test itself, perhaps it's no bad thing. It will keep some unsafe vehicles off the road. Given the relatively low mileage done by motorhomes though, every two years would probably be enough. I think most people could live with that.

bijapos

Had my Camper DOE'd in April as it was just imported from Germany and Dolmen Insurance wanted it Doe'd. Cost €86, it goes through the same test as commercial vans, the gas fittings etc were not tested. They put those stickers on the headlamps, said they are acceptable. Got it done in Rathcoole Motors in Greenogue beside Rathcoole/Saggart/Newcastle. My former boss used to get his vans done there so I had a couple of good experiences with them.

mickwor1111

http://www.attorneygeneral.ie/esi/2009/B26834.pdf

mickwor1111

its true , all motorhomes need to have a DOE , traffic corps in Limerick are enforcing it big time

mickwor1111

`They weigh it , €30 , put stickers on side and rear €120 , put a weight plate on it €120 and it will cost €120 to get it done , that is if your motorhome is not in need of repair .....then it is more money

chrisblack

I'm getting confused here - is this for vans over 3.5t only, or all campervans???

Thanks

Chris

Macspower

still very confusing...

I phoned my local DOE test centre today and they say motorhomes are exempt as far as they knew and have never tested one..

Then I phoned local gardai and they told me to ring the motor tax office... who got me to ring shannon .... who didn't know and told me to ring gardai....

Guess we need a definative answer from somewhere

nailer8

I work in a DOE Test centre and also have a camper.
This circular came in the other day from the RSA.

http://www.rsa.ie/SERVICES/upload/File/VT/VI%2007-09%20Testing%20of%20Campers.pdf

There is a very worrying issue regarding your windows, i definitely don't have such a cert and don't know where i would get one.

For all camper vans and motor homes
• Non-glass glazing: The owner / presenter of the vehicle must produce a certificate or documentation from
the manufacturer or glazing installer stating that the glazing material is not likely, if fractured, to produce
fragments capable of causing severe cuts. A copy (not the original) of such documentation should be
retained by the test centre.

Most of the trouble comes for people with campers over 3.5GVW.

As mentioned earlier you will need rear and side reflective marking.
You will need a Weight Plate
You will need a speed limiter if newer than 2001
by law the vehicle must have a speedlimiter fitted if first registered since 1st
October 2001

The full testers manual can be downloaded here
http://www.rsa.ie/SERVICES/RSA_Services/Vehicle_Testing.html

zagmund

Lads, relax.

This is Ireland.

The NCT is optional, keeping cars out of bus lanes is optional, traffic regulation enforcement is optional, the traffic corp go for their tea break during the evening rush hour (or used to, I don't know if that idiocy got sorted out yet). I'll start to worry about this DOE yokie as soon as I get stopped for it.

z

zagmund

I would have thought that the abundant safety markings on the plastic windows would be proof enough of their compliance with safety regulations. I can't see how the testing centre is going to keep the originals of the markings though since they are part of the window.

z

bijapos

This glazing thing is interesting.
1. I presume they are going to have to let every camper with plastic windows off as this includes every factory built camper around. I know they are very hard to break but when they do they leave long jagged pieces of plastic. I dont suppose this will be affected.
2. Conversions. Any bus built in the last 25 years which has been converted and has kept its original windows: these windows tend to shatter into tiny fragments, they cause (in my experience) a lot of small (usually harmless) cuts but no "fragments capable of causing severe cuts" . This again is my opinion, do they have some sort of standard to measure this - pretty much all windows have their safety standard etched into them - or is it going to be at the discretion of the individual tester. My betting is on the latter. More confusion.

Again sad that Macspower had to do the runaround of the usual agencies before ending out where he started none the wiser.

Slidey

nailer8 wrote: »

I work in a DOE Test centre and also have a camper.
This circular came in the other day from the RSA.

Just checked the emails there and you are right.

I only did an insurance assesment on an 86 merc 608 .

It would never have passed a DOE, not in a million years. I hope he doesnt come back

The new side markings are a lot more discreet than the older ones so wont look as bad if your camper is over 3500kg gvw

spaceHopper

Typical Ireland confuse simple issure

For VRT and road tax a camper is

a vehicle which is shown to the satisfaction of the Commissioners to be designed, constructed or adapted to provide temporary living accommodation .....

but the RSA say it is
“goods vehicle” means a mechanically propelled vehicle, or an articulated vehicle, constructed or adapted primarily for the conveyance of goods or burden of any description whether or not the vehicle is used for such a purpose.

and the SI the quote makes no referenc to campers!

They may try to make campers go for DOE but once you are insured and taxed I don't see how they can.

My camper will pass DOE just don't want to shell out a pointless 100 euros and take time off work.

sunchaser

Having brought this to the attention in June, it now has come to pass. However:- the RSA havent a clue in relation to campers. Firstly they say all vehicles have to be tested. I wonder dose that also go for Gay Byrnes Harley or Gold Wing I am not sure which, he was presented in by U2. They want to class campers as commercial vehicles and campers over 3.5T as heavy goods, that means that you cant drive on the continent at weekends as HGV's are banned from driving on Sundays. 2. If your camper has a DOE certificate displayed in the windscreen, you can park in a commercial loding bay in cities, what will the traffic warden do? issue a ticket. You go to court to contest it and the judge will ask why was this vehicle tickited as it displays a DOE of a commercail vehicle. 3 It only costs approx 40 euro to import a commercail vehicle. Does that mean that we can all apply for a refund of VRT paid.

:pac:

Slidey

Well just on a point of clarification.

From what I can see, the vehicles will not be classed as commericals, just tested under their rules.

The doe cert is not designed to be displayed and you are not obliged to do so. Commercial parking bays are for vehicles taxed commercially which campers will not be.

From my point of view, I am dreading this. Some of the campers that are prestented for an engineers report are an astounding condition.

bijapos

+1 to what Sidley says.

For commercials there are two tests, under 3.5t and over 3.5t. From what I can see the campers will be judged on this. The tests are a bit different because of the technical differences between small vans and trucks.

No matter what the weight if it is a camper it will still be classified as acamper, taxed, VRT'd, insured and treated as a camper (so we'll have to park it as a camper too).

Campers over 3.5t are treated as a private vehicle over 3.5t, NOT as a commercial over 3.5t.

Sunchaser: The "no driving on Sunday" rule on the continent applies to vehicles with a GVW over 7.5t, very few campers are over this so most people are OK.

Hope this isnt confusing.:o

sunchaser

bijapos wrote: »

+1 to what Sidley says.

For commercials there are two tests, under 3.5t and over 3.5t. From what I can see the campers will be judged on this. The tests are a bit different because of the technical differences between small vans and trucks.

No matter what the weight if it is a camper it will still be classified as acamper, taxed, VRT'd, insured and treated as a camper (so we'll have to park it as a camper too).

Campers over 3.5t are treated as a private vehicle over 3.5t, NOT as a commercial over 3.5t.

Sunchaser: The "no driving on Sunday" rule on the continent applies to vehicles with a GVW over 7.5t, very few campers are over this so most people are OK.

Hope this isnt confusing.:o

Thanks for clearing up the "no Sunday driving".
On the question of campers over 3.5t does that mean if they are to be treated as a private vehicle over 3.5t they will not require commercail vehicle markings. ?

Slidey

No, for the purposes of the test, they will be tested as Heavy Goods Vehicles.

This means that they will have to meet all the requirements of the HGV test. The only exception to this is the tachograph laws. You will be able to sign an exemption form for the tachograph which means you will not have to have one calibrated if fitted, unless the vehicle it after oct 01 and the speedlimiter that is fitted is controlled through the tacho.

The new side markings are not the stripey ones you see on most HGV. They are a thin (approx 50mm) reflective strip and can be either silver or yellow on the side and red at the rear. There is the possibility that they may fall off after the test of course...

sunchaser

What camper after Oct 01 can one purchase that will have a tacho and speedlimiter fitted. As you are aware they are recretional vehicles and should be tested as such the same as they are in the U.K. and in Germany. A s[eed limiter is not required for campers over 3.5 t in the UK. I dont have a problem with a test for a camper as stated there are a lot of campers out there that shouldnt be on the road, some I have seen even fitted with Alum windows as in a house.

Slidey

Speed limiters only started to be fitted to HGVs as standard (under 12t) from about 06 on. So that means that anything older than that would have to have one retro fitted.

Since this legislation came into effect there has been a lot of mini buses getting this fitted, the likes of Hiaces, Transporters and Ranault Trafics. Some of them are handy and some are a pain in the hole.

The easiest one to do is the sprinter, it can be set using the engine control unit in any Mercedes garage and takes only a few min.

If whatever camper you have doesnt have a tacho and can have a speed limiter fitted without one can just sign the tacho exemption form once a year instead.

decci

i have just started to convert a iveco to camper just been reading all this about a doe so far i have bought a caravan and have one window from it in the van and have replaced the drivers seat with a bucket seat now after reading this is it going to be a complete waste of time going ahead with it like where do you get a cert for windows after taking them from a caravan and will it fail a doe for modifying seats and closing up back doors

Slidey

Closing off the back doors would not be a fail.

Bucket seat I'm not too sure, I'll look in the manual. Is the back adjustable?

I dont believe getting a cert for the windows will be that much of a problem if the are safety glass. Just find a glazier to inspect them and write a report.

paddyb

you wont need a cert if the windows are glass (only non-glass):


Non-glass glazing: The owner / presenter of the vehicle must produce a certificate or documentation from
the manufacturer or glazing installer stating that the glazing material is not likely, if fractured, to produce
fragments capable of causing severe cuts. A copy (not the original) of such documentation should be
retained by the test centre.

decci

think windows are perspex out of 1988 caravan

killalanerr

where would i get a cert for my windows, im goin to ask billy from the rsa this very question http://www.rsa.ie/SERVICES/upload/File/VT/VI%2007-09%20Testing%20of%20Campers.pdf i think we all should give billy a call and ask him how he came up with this gem

SonOfPerdition

I've just had a DOE test center refuse to test my vw t25 that i bought last weekend. I had it booked in today for an engineers report as required by dolmen insurance.

when i rang last week i was asked to print out the report from dolmens insurance and bring it with me so i expected them to just do what was required in the report.

when i arrived, the glazing part of the DOE test was pointed out to me. I specified i wasn't there for a DOE test but for an engineers report specifically for my insurance. He didn't even look at the van just simply kept pointing at his copy of the DOE test and refused to do any test with out the glazing report. Now i'm stuck trying to find somewhere to carry out an engineers report for my insurance. I think my next step is to try to get a report at a main dealers.

but .. what are my options regarding the glazing for future DOE testing?


SOP

Slidey

Just go to any SIMI garage and they can fill out the report for you.

It does not have to be done at a DOE station. If it has glass in the windows get it inspected by any windscreen fitters, I would imagine they will be able to say if it is safety glass or not.

SonOfPerdition

Slidey wrote: »

Just go to any SIMI garage and they can fill out the report for you.

It does not have to be done at a DOE station. If it has glass in the windows get it inspected by any windscreen fitters, I would imagine they will be able to say if it is safety glass or not.

thanks Slidey, I will start ringing SIMI garages tomorrow. the problem with my windows is that they are all plastic in the rear and how would i get that certified? i'm thinking that my new camper is gonna cost me a lot more money than i bargained for if i have to replace it all.

loobylou

Check back recent threads, (last 6 months), but I'm pretty sure that any legitimate garage can fill out that form for you. I think what was posted was that once they had a VAT no. they were acceptable to the insurance company.

salamander27

SonOfPerdition wrote: »

He didn't even look at the van just simply kept pointing at his copy of the DOE test and refused to do any test with out the glazing report.

Surely He could have done the test anyway and gave you a cert when you get a report for the windows?

Anyway i'm screwed. My yoke aint going to pass a doe any time soon! Got a bit of welding to do before i tax it next year.:o

The thing that is bothering me is that I have heard nothing from officialdom. No letters, adverts, nothing? I mean they have my address so a letter would be nice!

Slidey

I think the DOE centres were lucky to get an email.

Such is the RSA

SonOfPerdition

salamander27 wrote: »

Surely He could have done the test anyway and gave you a cert when you get a report for the windows?

Not according to the tester i was talking to. What annoyed me is that i had booked in for an engineers report for the insurance, not the DOE. I just happened to be using a DOE center. I even showed him the Dolmen insurance form i was requested to bring with me but it was like talking to a wall. I just could not get through to him and when I asked to speak to the manager who i'd booked the test with I was told he'd gone home for the day. It was one of the most frustrating experiences i've ever had.

anyways, i have it booked in with a simi garage on friday morning, thanks to the advice on this forum.

Anyway i'm screwed. My yoke aint going to pass a doe any time soon! Got a bit of welding to do before i tax it next year.:o

i'm in the same boat, it looks like i'll need to get the rear windows replaced for the DOE. luckily the camper is taxed until april next year so i've a bit of breathing space as far as the DOE is concerned.

zagmund

Can someone remind me again if there's a problem for campervans that are already taxed, insured, etc . . . and not specifically just for vehicles/conversions that are being insured or taxed for the first time and need an engineers report ?

If I don't bring my vehicle to a DOE testing centre and don't get it tested, is the Garda on the street going to be aware that the DOE is required ?

z

decci

dont want to sound thick but are some non glass windows not up to standard like all mine have written on them is poly plastic is their some plastic type windows that might be turned down i just thought glass windows would have been more of a issue than plastic ones

Billy Bunting

my windows all have a safety symbol stamped in each corner.

salamander27

Billy Bunting wrote: »

my windows all have a safety symbol stamped in each corner.

My windows got a safety stamp too but have cracked from the heat of the cooker. Doubt they'd like that!

loobylou

zagmund wrote: »

If I don't bring my vehicle to a DOE testing centre and don't get it tested, is the Garda on the street going to be aware that the DOE is required ?

z

The short answer to that is ..no.

Karg

Hi all, Firstly I just want to say that even though my camper is likely to fail the test, I think that, in principle at least the test is a good idea. However that being said, what I cannot get my head around is how they are able to impose this without any notice to Camper owners.

The first seemingly official notification about this (correct me if I'm wrong please) seems to come from the road safety authority in a letter dates the 21st July 2009. http://www.rsa.ie/SERVICES/upload/File/VT/VI 07-09 Testing of Campers.pdf. I happened on this by accident, as a registered camper owner - I am as yet to receive anything official to myself personally notifying me about it. What astounds me is that when one looks into this circular and the Regulations that it falls under, we can see that it is the S.I. No. 771 of 2004, European
Communities (Vehicle Testing) Regulations 2004. Google this and it will bring you into the Irish Statute book http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/si/0771.html . Have a look through this document and you find it is dated 8th December 2004 Minister for Transport Martin Cullen.
Unless I have been living on a different planet from everybody else, I have not over the last - nearly 5 years - that they have known about this, received any notification that this existed in relation to Campers. How many of ye, like myself, have bought campers that were good enough to pass an engineers report, but most likely will not stand to the rigours of a very heavy HGV Test especially when you factor in this window thing, speed limiter, tachographs etc.

Sorry about the long message but my argument is that this has been in the governments knowledge for the last nearly five years. I for one, would have been quite happy with that level of warning to have bought a different vehicle or got my one up to scrath for the test. Instead I, like ye, find that though we are taxed and insured, we are now driving around illegaly and the people that made this illegal could of giving us 5 years warning...

Again, I want to reitterate that I do not refute the safety argument, however is it even legal or constitutional to impose this on us without any advance warning, when people who have engineers reports, who are taxed and insured now find themselves breaking the law through no fault of their own. Are there any solicitors/people in the know out there with campers who can give us their take?

Can we - the camper owners - do anything about this - even just get a period of grace?

zoltar_boi

I contacted the RSA (the man named in the circular as the contact for queries), and received the following in relation to windows in motorhomes:

"Non-glass glazing must be of an automotive standard, hence the requirement for proof that it is not likely, if fractured, to produce fragments capable of causing severe cuts. Many factory-built motor caravans have non-glass glazing that carries an E-mark. If this E-mark is to Regulation 43 (marked as “43R”, it meets the requirement for automotive standard glazing and no further documentation is necessary. If no marking is evident, it is the responsibility of the owner/presenter to prove the glazing is safe to automotive standards."

Typically :mad:, none of my windows are marked this way, so it's off to the manufacturers for information.

2 stroke

Lets not be shoehorned into a annual doe test. write/email the rsa, local politicians and demand a proper, fair camper test be introduced. As most campers are low milage, there is no need for for an anual test. However there are dangerous campers out there, and there is need for a proper test. Many of us have paid substantial sums of vrt, now its time to get value for money.
Btw passing a doe test isnt difficult, a vehicle can pass it and need brake pads and shocks a month later. If your van is road legal it should pass, other than the window thing.

Karg

Anyone heard the Motorcaravans' Club take on this? Haven't been able to find anything on their website?

Billy Bunting

I received this the other day.......

to all members and friends
There is a lot of talk about a motorcaravan Road test at this point in time, there was a directive by a Billy Barry from the RSA sent to all DOE testing centres that campervans were to be tested commercially. We have good advice, There is no category that motorcaravans can be tested under at present, as all motorcaravans are private vehicles taxed privately with private insurance. The NCT can not nor have they the facility to test motorcaravans. The Revenue have classed all motorcaravans as private and taken VRT at between 13.5 % and 36% , this will have to be refunded if motorcaravans are commercial. There is a lot at stake here and we are taking legal action to have a fair and equitable testing category brought in.
Our legal Team are preparing an action which will take place after the present Summer law recess end of September. By then we will have our case prepared. Hang in there and we will achieve something positive IF WE ALL STICK TOGETHER. Join www.irishpeoplesunion.com from Monday it will be a powerful soap box. We have a long way to go even as far as Europe for justice, we get law in Ireland (Too much of it,) but we seldom get justice. We hope the People of Ireland unite, it’s time we the people recover our voice. We are the power, politicians ore the instrument and when they get inept and sometime corrupt we have to get rid of them.
Bill Lupton

Link didnt seem to work, have replied for further info, nothing as yet.

Karg

Hi Billy, thanks for that, Definitely think we all need to stick together, I myself am under 3.5 but many I know over it and they are most definitely going to fail under the rigours of the HGV test, please keep us posted! Thanks, Karg