An Post "Sorry we missed you" notices

ferrigan101

This happens to me every time! It's seriously annoying. I live in D7 (like another poster, about 100yds from D1) and the same postie does it every time. Would anyone have a link or number to customer services where we could all register complaints about the issue maybe? I feel like alot of the posters on this thread, I'm paying for a service that I am not recieving and the posties are getting paid for a job that they are not fulfilling entirely. :mad:

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

Devils Advocate here so don't shout too loud ...

Yes it is his job but everyones job has to have a reasonable workload to be done in a reasonable time frame. I'm not neccessarily defending the practice as it is very frustrating if it happens to you but if An Post were to make sure that the postman on each round that has apartments like this did the job the way people fully expect - ie ring apartment doors, wait around for owner to come down or enter the complex directly and travel to the apartment door then there is a practical issue that the postman involved may be unable to complete the round in the time frame allocated. So the round would need to be split into two maybe three in some cases = extra costs to run the service = higher prices to post items in general.

Yes in rural areas postman may drive up 2 mile road / driveway etc but again its built into their round and always has been and can be achieved. In dublin the explosion of apartment block developments has put extra workload on each round.

Would it be preferable to up the prices by say 30% and increase the service level to apartments ? Or should apartment block addresses occur a surcharge ?

ferrigan101

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

Devils Advocate here so don't shout too loud ...

Yes it is his job but everyones job has to have a reasonable workload to be done in a reasonable time frame. I'm not neccessarily defending the practice as it is very frustrating if it happens to you but if An Post were to make sure that the postman on each round that has apartments like this did the job the way people fully expect - ie ring apartment doors, wait around for owner to come down or enter the complex directly and travel to the apartment door then there is a practical issue that the postman involved may be unable to complete the round in the time frame allocated. So the round would need to be split into two maybe three in some cases = extra costs to run the service = higher prices to post items in general.

Yes in rural areas postman may drive up 2 mile road / driveway etc but again its built into their round and always has been and can be achieved. In dublin the explosion of apartment block developments has put extra workload on each round.

Would it be preferable to up the prices by say 30% and increase the service level to apartments ? Or should apartment block addresses occur a surcharge ?

But surely the extra revenue generated from the appartment blocks would offset any need for price hikes and surcharges? Having known few posties in Scotland, they don't finish thier shift until the round is complete. Like a poster suggested, if it's the parcels that are an issue why not employ a man with a van? That would take the pressure off the other guys a bit.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

ferrigan101 wrote: »

But surely the extra revenue generated from the appartment blocks would offset any need for price hikes and surcharges? Having known few posties in Scotland, they don't finish thier shift until the round is complete. Like a poster suggested, if it's the parcels that are an issue why not employ a man with a van? That would take the pressure off the other guys a bit.

The extra revenue would be due to an increase in volume that An Post would presumably experience due to the new addresses created.

However when it comes to registered post these new addresses cost a lot more to service than a traditional house and are potentially loss making if you factor in a lot of waiting time for the postman involved. So although the revenue would increase it would not neccessarily mean an increase in profits.

Again employing a man with a van to service these apartments incurs an extra cost. Who pays for it ? Should each apartment blocks management company be levied for a contribution to An Post to cover a full service ?

Again to be clear I'm not anti apartment block dwellers - just playing the devils advocate.

Beano

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

The extra revenue would be due to an increase in volume that An Post would presumably experience due to the new addresses created.

However when it comes to registered post these new addresses cost a lot more to service than a traditional house and are potentially loss making if you factor in a lot of waiting time for the postman involved. So although the revenue would increase it would not neccessarily mean an increase in profits.

...

How does it cost more to service 50 apartments in the same building than it does for 50 houses?

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

You're assuming I am talking about posting letters. Nice and handy with 50 letter boxes in the same place.

But I am talking about registered post and parcel post that requires signatures. The physical process of obtaining a signature / delivering a parcel to an apartment takes a lot longer than a quick knock on a door at a house.

meglome

Beano wrote: »

How does it cost more to service 50 apartments in the same building than it does for 50 houses?

It doesn't I would have thought. It's all unionised so no one is being overworked imo.



I can't believe that some people are defending postmen not delivering parcels like they are supposed to. Now I could stand corrected but you think in a heavily unionised place like An Post they are doing too much work? My guess is they are pretty much finished for the day when they finish their round, if the round finishes early because 'luckily' no one is in it's a nice easy day for them.

They are paid to deliver these parcels, they are supplying a service that delivers parcels but they just don't bother. I don't see on what planet that is acceptable.

ShooterSF

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

Yes in rural areas postman may drive up 2 mile road / driveway etc but again its built into their round and always has been and can be achieved. In dublin the explosion of apartment block developments has put extra workload on each round.

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

The extra revenue would be due to an increase in volume that An Post would presumably experience due to the new addresses created.

However when it comes to registered post these new addresses cost a lot more to service than a traditional house and are potentially loss making if you factor in a lot of waiting time for the postman involved. So although the revenue would increase it would not neccessarily mean an increase in profits.

Again employing a man with a van to service these apartments incurs an extra cost. Who pays for it ? Should each apartment blocks management company be levied for a contribution to An Post to cover a full service ?

Again to be clear I'm not anti apartment block dwellers - just playing the devils advocate.

I'm not from Dublin but no way does the average delivery with apartments take longer that a rural house. If it's new apartments that are increasing the load take on extra staff. The Dublin city staff will still deliver more than a rural postman on a given day and therefore are more profitable. I don't see the problem here. How could it be costing them? (Unless they are making more profits off Dublin and don't want to give that up to provide an equal service)

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

ShooterSF wrote: »

I'm not from Dublin but no way does the average delivery with apartments take longer that a rural house. If it's new apartments that are increasing the load take on extra staff. The Dublin city staff will still deliver more than a rural postman on a given day and therefore are more profitable. I don't see the problem here. How could it be costing them? (Unless they are making more profits off Dublin and don't want to give that up to provide an equal service)

As the mp's would say I refer my honourable friend to the answer I gave earlier

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

You're assuming I am talking about posting letters. Nice and handy with 50 letter boxes in the same place.

But I am talking about registered post and parcel post that requires signatures. The physical process of obtaining a signature / delivering a parcel to an apartment takes a lot longer than a quick knock on a door at a house.

This thread is about registered and parcel postage not standard post. A delivery that requires a signature usually takes a lot longer at an apartment block than a house. There is time spent either going directly to the apartment involved or waiting for the aprarment owner to come to the reception area.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

meglome wrote: »

It doesn't I would have thought. It's all unionised so no one is being overworked imo.

I can't believe that some people are defending postmen not delivering parcels like they are supposed to. Now I could stand corrected but you think in a heavily unionised place like An Post they are doing too much work? My guess is they are pretty much finished for the day when they finish their round, if the round finishes early because 'luckily' no one is in it's a nice easy day for them.

They are paid to deliver these parcels, they are supplying a service that delivers parcels but they just don't bother. I don't see on what planet that is acceptable.

Of course it costs more - if it takes longer then in terms of those resources effected by the time - which from An Posts point of view is a cost to them because they are paying that postman to stand there and wait.

Whether or not they are getting 100% out of the same postman in the first place is a very different issue. It may be the case that if they finish early they are done for the day but at the same time when the shift finishes they are finished. So if enough time is wasted at apartment blocks they will be off home before finishing the round anyway.

I agree with you that the parcels should be delivered - don't get me wrong but I also think that in practical terms the full delivery to apartment blocks can be difficult. And btw I am speaking from a point of view of a retailer that ends up dealing with these undelivered parcels all the time. i'd much prefer that there were no hassles at all.

ferrigan101

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

You're assuming I am talking about posting letters. Nice and handy with 50 letter boxes in the same place.

But I am talking about registered post and parcel post that requires signatures. The physical process of obtaining a signature / delivering a parcel to an apartment takes a lot longer than a quick knock on a door at a house.

I know your playing devils advocate here but I don't see how there is any difference between a "quick" knock on a door and having to push a buzzer to see if someone is in. I often look at your site for games and have many times came close to pre-ordering but always get put off by the fact that I know I'll have to trek out of town to pick it up (most likely the day after I thought I was getting it!), and will invariably end up buying it in town from a bricks and mortar store. It may cost me a few more euros but it saves my blood pressure from getting any higher through sheer annoyance!:pac:

Tallon

My postman sends me a text....

Living in the country FTW

ferrigan101

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

Of course it costs more - if it takes longer then in terms of those resources effected by the time - which from An Posts point of view is a cost to them because they are paying that postman to stand there and wait.

Whether or not they are getting 100% out of the same postman in the first place is a very different issue. It may be the case that if they finish early they are done for the day but at the same time when the shift finishes they are finished. So if enough time is wasted at apartment blocks they will be off home before finishing the round anyway.

I agree with you that the parcels should be delivered - don't get me wrong but I also think that in practical terms the full delivery to apartment blocks can be difficult. And btw I am speaking from a point of view of a retailer that ends up dealing with these undelivered parcels all the time. i'd much prefer that there were no hassles at all.

But surely the point of a postman is to deliver the post whether it be a letter, parcel or registered letter? If they haven't factored a "waiting" time into thier costings then maybe they should? And if they aren't getting 100% from the staff they employ they should maybe look at better ways of training the staff up to an acceptable standard. If I finished my job when my shift was meant to finish and left only half a job done I would get shat on from an almighty height! If the posties feel they don't have enogh time to complete thier rounds then they should take it up with managment instead of doing a half arsed job and leaving people disheartend and angry.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

ferrigan101 wrote: »

I know your playing devils advocate here but I don't see how there is any difference between a "quick" knock on a door and having to push a buzzer to see if someone is in. I often look at your site for games and have many times came close to pre-ordering but always get put off by the fact that I know I'll have to trek out of town to pick it up (most likely the day after I thought I was getting it!), and will invariably end up buying it in town from a bricks and mortar store. It may cost me a few more euros but it saves my blood pressure from getting any higher through sheer annoyance!:pac:

Glad you've noticed the devils advocacy !!!

No difference at all between the knock on a door and press of a buzzer. Difference arises when the door is answered at a house the package gets handed over immediately. At an apartment the owner is not in front of the postman and either the postman goes to them or waits for them to come to reception but it is added time.

As for our own site - that's only a potential issue if you have ordered something and requested registered postage. Our normal free delivery arrives with your mail and arrives to your door on or in some cases before release day. The vast majority of our customers pre ordering do not register the delivery and are very happy with the fact they don't have to test their blood pressure in the local shopping centre.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

ferrigan101 wrote: »

But surely the point of a postman is to deliver the post whether it be a letter, parcel or registered letter? If they haven't factored a "waiting" time into thier costings then maybe they should? And if they aren't getting 100% from the staff they employ they should maybe look at better ways of training the staff up to an acceptable standard. If I finished my job when my shift was meant to finish and left only half a job done I would get shat on from an almighty height! If the posties feel they don't have enogh time to complete thier rounds then they should take it up with managment instead of doing a half arsed job and leaving people disheartend and angry.

Completely agree with you on all points.

ferrigan101

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

Glad you've noticed the devils advocacy !!!

No difference at all between the knock on a door and press of a buzzer. Difference arises when the door is answered at a house the package gets handed over immediately. At an apartment the owner is not in front of the postman and either the postman goes to them or waits for them to come to reception but it is added time.

As for our own site - that's only a potential issue if you have ordered something and requested registered postage. Our normal free delivery arrives with your mail and arrives to your door on or in some cases before release day. The vast majority of our customers pre ordering do not register the delivery and are very happy with the fact they don't have to test their blood pressure in the local shopping centre.

Nice plug for the free delivery thing:pac: I like your subtlety;).

But I seriously think my postie takes one look at his load in the morning and takes out anything that looks like it wont fit through a letter box. Granted it may take extra time for an appartment block delivery but we aren't talking about every apartment in every block here. We are talking about maybe one or two parcels/registered delivery per block (and I think thats a generous estimate btw) and the fact that posties seem too lazy to do the job they are meant to or the fact an post don't want them "wasting " time waiting on people answering thier doors.

meglome

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

Glad you've noticed the devils advocacy !!!

I noticed it too but I trying to understand why anyone would even support the idea that people don't do their jobs. They are supposed to deliver. But for me and many others it's a massive pain the ass to get our parcels because they don't bother to actually do it. I have to walk to the office and back, which takes me the best part of 25minutes each way. I'm really sick if it, I've stopped getting things delivered to my home address because of it.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

ferrigan101 wrote: »

Nice plug for the free delivery thing:pac: I like your subtlety;).

But I seriously think my postie takes one look at his load in the morning and takes out anything that looks like it wont fit through a letter box. Granted it may take extra time for an appartment block delivery but we aren't talking about every apartment in every block here. We are talking about maybe one or two parcels/registered delivery per block (and I think thats a generous estimate btw) and the fact that posties seem too lazy to do the job they are meant to or the fact an post don't want them "wasting " time waiting on people answering thier doors.

Can't be too subtle though or else the plug is missed Actually just don't want anyone assuming that you have to go with registered postage if you order off us. Plenty of plugs in the signature. :pac:

I've had the same where we live - notices dropped in by a postman who had not got the stuff with them. And this is a house not an apartment so I do agree with you that it happens and shouldn't !

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

meglome wrote: »

I noticed it too but I trying to understand why anyone would even support the idea that people don't do their jobs. They are supposed to deliver. But for me and many others it's a massive pain the ass to get our parcels because they don't bother to actually do it. I have to walk to the office and back, which takes me the best part of 25minutes each way. I'm really sick if it, I've stopped getting things delivered to my home address because of it.

Nah - what I said in the original post I labelled as playing devils advocate was that people and postmen included should have a reasonable workload to be done in a reasonable timeframe. Postmen who are just dropping leaflets in to finish earlier or who aren't bothered even trying would not be in that category at all.

ShooterSF

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

As the mp's would say I refer my honourable friend to the answer I gave earlier



This thread is about registered and parcel postage not standard post. A delivery that requires a signature usually takes a lot longer at an apartment block than a house. There is time spent either going directly to the apartment involved or waiting for the aprarment owner to come to the reception area.

I still don't think I agree. No offence. Lets say An Post expects each postman to deliver 20 packages a day (random number). Postie in Dublin may have to wait a few minutes to deliver each package to an apartment but population density will mean he won't have to travel far. Rural postie may get a faster answer at the door but would need to cover a lot more ground to deliver said parcels. It would definitely make for an interesting trial.
I still think it's an issue of expecting to make more profit per Dublin postie.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

ShooterSF wrote: »

I still don't think I agree. No offence. Lets say An Post expects each postman to deliver 20 packages a day (random number). Postie in Dublin may have to wait a few minutes to deliver each package to an apartment but population density will mean he won't have to travel far. Rural postie may get a faster answer at the door but would need to cover a lot more ground to deliver said parcels. It would definitely make for an interesting trial.
I still think it's an issue of expecting to make more profit per Dublin postie.

None taken - bit of debate never hurt anyone

I'd see it this way ...

In the case of a rural postie he is going to have to travel far even when delivering the standard letter. So him having 20 registered parcels is not a lot different to having an extra 20 envelopes other than having to obtain the signature at the door. He will still have travelled to them and encountered bigger driveways etc as part of his normal round. This postman will also be delivering a lot less volume of mail.

In an urban setting the postman will probably be carrying 10 times the mail of the rural postie which makes up for the extra time the rural postie has to factor in because of a bigger spread. ( complete guess and not an exact figure - but it is very safe to assume the urban postie has a lot more than the rural postie to deliver )

When the 20 registered parcels are added to his workload ( first of all by the same ratio if the rural one had 20 parcels urban postie would have 200 ) but for arguments sake he ends up with 20 parcels to apartments that take an extra 3 or 4 minutes at each one it adds up to an extra hour and a half on the route.

ShooterSF

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

None taken - bit of debate never hurt anyone

I'd see it this way ...

In the case of a rural postie he is going to have to travel far even when delivering the standard letter. So him having 20 registered parcels is not a lot different to having an extra 20 envelopes other than having to obtain the signature at the door. He will still have travelled to them and encountered bigger driveways etc as part of his normal round. This postman will also be delivering a lot less volume of mail.

In an urban setting the postman will probably be carrying 10 times the mail of the rural postie which makes up for the extra time the rural postie has to factor in because of a bigger spread. ( complete guess and not an exact figure - but it is very safe to assume the urban postie has a lot more than the rural postie to deliver )

When the 20 registered parcels are added to his workload ( first of all by the same ratio if the rural one had 20 parcels urban postie would have 200 ) but for arguments sake he ends up with 20 parcels to apartments that take an extra 3 or 4 minutes at each one it adds up to an extra hour and a half on the route.

That's what I mean. Dublin postie is delivering more and therefore earning An Post more money. Therefore they should have no problem taking on extra staff and still make each one more profitable than a rural postman.
You said earlier that maybe apartments would have to pay to get van deliveries as it's an increase in costs or such but I'd suggest that they are already subsidising rural postmen who deliver less.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

ShooterSF wrote: »

That's what I mean. Dublin postie is delivering more and therefore earning An Post more money. Therefore they should have no problem taking on extra staff and still make each one more profitable than a rural postman.
You said earlier that maybe apartments would have to pay to get van deliveries as it's an increase in costs or such but I'd suggest that they are already subsidising rural postmen who deliver less.

Indeed but the delivery of the item is only one link in the chain. There is a collection to be made - transport to central sorting offices - central sorting to be done - delivery to local sorting offices and then the last link being the actual delivery of the package. Where did this package come from ? If it came from a rural area then it cost a lot more to collect and process that package than it did for the package that was sent from across the city. The people receiving the post from the urban postie have not paid any extra when they sent their post to a rural location so you could argue that the subsidising works both ways.

I know the above gets skewed by the urban population size versus the rural population and the volumes being sent between the two but it's not as simple as generally saying urban postmen carrying more subsidise rural postmen who are carrying less. There is an element of it of course but it's not as clear cut as has been said.

ShooterSF

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

Indeed but the delivery of the item is only one link in the chain. There is a collection to be made - transport to central sorting offices - central sorting to be done - delivery to local sorting offices and then the last link being the actual delivery of the package. Where did this package come from ? If it came from a rural area then it cost a lot more to collect and process that package than it did for the package that was sent from across the city. The people receiving the post from the urban postie have not paid any extra when they sent their post to a rural location so you could argue that the subsidising works both ways.

I know the above gets skewed by the urban population size versus the rural population and the volumes being sent between the two but it's not as simple as generally saying urban postmen carrying more subsidise rural postmen who are carrying less. There is an element of it of course but it's not as clear cut as has been said.

That's a fair point but it still doesn't change my mind that they should take on extra staff to complete the work. There is nothing to suggest that apartment blocks cost more in time (be it waiting or traveling), petrol etc to deliver to than a rural house. As such I see no reason to provide a sub-par service to them. My gut tells me Dublin is subsidising the rest of the country's service and as such should be given at least an equal quality of service.

eden_my_ass

ShooterSF wrote: »

That's a fair point but it still doesn't change my mind that they should take on extra staff to complete the work. There is nothing to suggest that apartment blocks cost more in time (be it waiting or traveling), petrol etc to deliver to than a rural house. As such I see no reason to provide a sub-par service to them. My gut tells me Dublin is subsidising the rest of the country's service and as such should be given at least an equal quality of service.

To be fair Dublin is not the only built up area in the country, theres a lot of urban centres possibly subsidising a lot of rural areas...just to correct your argument

Cuddlesworth

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

When the 20 registered parcels are added to his workload ( first of all by the same ratio if the rural one had 20 parcels urban postie would have 200 ) but for arguments sake he ends up with 20 parcels to apartments that take an extra 3 or 4 minutes at each one it adds up to an extra hour and a half on the route.

Or you could consider that he can deliver the normal post to a apartment block of 50 in just under three minutes. Where fifty houses might take him a hour.

The service being provided is to deliver a package to your door.
The money paid is to deliver a package to your door.
The actual result is to have your package left at a depot with strict working hour opening times.
That is not what was advertised.

If An-post cannot provide the service advertised then people should complain freely.

I would start with registering complaints with their adverts. Start here.
http://www.asai.ie/

Clearly indicate that their service is not what is advertised.

ShooterSF

eden_my_ass wrote: »

To be fair Dublin is not the only built up area in the country, theres a lot of urban centres possibly subsidising a lot of rural areas...just to correct your argument

True I was just simplifying as the OP was (I think) in Dublin. I live in Nyaavan anywho so it's not like I'm out to have a go at "the culchies". :pac:

28064212

How does it matter what the difference is in delivery times? Registered post is a specific service that An Post are offering (and more importantly, advertising). If they want to offer a "depot service", where you can send a letter and the recepient gets a notice that it must be signed for at the depot, then offer it. Don't tell people that you will bring a parcel to an address for a signature, and then not do it. Fair enough if they've made an attempt to do it, but otherwise they're advertising a service they're not providing

Pixied

I know a couple of postmen down the country.

1. A lot of them start at 5am and are home by 11am and paid for a full day (??)
2. They will have a look at their post-load for the day and if they are not in the mood to deliver it they will only definitely deliver those with a 'Harp' on it. ie government post.
3. Some used to be paid extra to deliver advertising leaflets- not sure if they still are. But the postmen I knew used to dump the leaflets because they couldn't be arsed delievering them (too heavy) and still got paid extra for it.

Don't bother playing devils advocate gamesnash- it's a waste of time!

As stated I live in south dublin and I have yet to see my postie weighed down with post. And as for people being in or not- how many of us spend our working day only spending our time on a workload with a definite outcomes?? None of us, so why should the postman.

As I said previously think about those who are isolated from the community, whether because they are old or have small children. The service is a disgrace.

MOH

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

Devils Advocate here so don't shout too loud ...

Yes it is his job but everyones job has to have a reasonable workload to be done in a reasonable time frame. I'm not neccessarily defending the practice as it is very frustrating if it happens to you but if An Post were to make sure that the postman on each round that has apartments like this did the job the way people fully expect - ie ring apartment doors, wait around for owner to come down or enter the complex directly and travel to the apartment door then there is a practical issue that the postman involved may be unable to complete the round in the time frame allocated. So the round would need to be split into two maybe three in some cases = extra costs to run the service = higher prices to post items in general.

Yes in rural areas postman may drive up 2 mile road / driveway etc but again its built into their round and always has been and can be achieved. In dublin the explosion of apartment block developments has put extra workload on each round.

Would it be preferable to up the prices by say 30% and increase the service level to apartments ? Or should apartment block addresses occur a surcharge ?

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

The extra revenue would be due to an increase in volume that An Post would presumably experience due to the new addresses created.

However when it comes to registered post these new addresses cost a lot more to service than a traditional house and are potentially loss making if you factor in a lot of waiting time for the postman involved. So although the revenue would increase it would not neccessarily mean an increase in profits.

Again employing a man with a van to service these apartments incurs an extra cost. Who pays for it ? Should each apartment blocks management company be levied for a contribution to An Post to cover a full service ?

Again to be clear I'm not anti apartment block dwellers - just playing the devils advocate.

It's not just apartments though. They did it to us 3 times in a year at home (Dublin 5), when we happened to be there and the postman made no attempt to deliver a parcel, just dropped the slip through the door. And given that the doorbell didn't ring and the letter box only rattled once, the slip was already written before he got to the house, so the parcel was in the depot.

Besides which, they already charge enough for registered/parcel post.
If the postman can't complete his rounds in the necessary time, they need to hire more postmen, or pay them for longer hours. That's their problem.

If you guys were charging people for postage, then ringing them up and telling them they had to collect from your depot after they'd paid for postage, they wouldn't be too happy. And that's exactly what An Post is doing.