PE in schools...

r3nu4l

Inspired by something rubadub said in the 'weights for teens' thread...

When I was in secondary school we had PE once a week for 80 mins. From 1st to third year we had a bit of Gaelic football, basketball, hurling, rugby and soccer. We usually had a choice as to which we played. There was no real instruction and certainly no talk of nutrition, flexibility or why sport was good for the body.

Then in 5th and 6th year we were allowed to leave the school to do our own PE without supervision. The choices we were given were, swimming, bowling, snooker or pool or athletics. All unsupervised apart from the occasional time when a teacher would show up at the snooker hall to ensure that we were where we said we were going to be.

It was pitiful, absolutely pitiful.

So in secondary school, in years 1-3 we got about 60 minutes actual sports time per week and that was just games, no real instruction except on occasion. Years 4 and 5 were just dossing time.

How was your PE class in school? Did anyone else have as rubbish a time as me?

Has PE changed? Is there any actual class time devoted to how to train, types of exercise and the benefits of each?

cowzerp

had a double class once a week for pe, 80 mins, mainly just football or basketball or stuff like that, we always asked for football as it was our favourite, PE teachers really suck and i say that as a personal trainer, There there because there scholars but most the best sports type people are not the scholar type and more the activity type people, PE should have specialist fitness coaches who dont do any other subjects , then you'd have real PE teachers who could make fun and rewarding classes and not teachers who just want to get it all over with.

CutzEr

We had double class of 35 minutes, minus about 15 minutes of 'togging in' and out, we got about 55 minutes a week, also the hall was shared so some weeks we watched 'educational' videos for an hour instead.

d'Oracle

PE teachers should be crossfit affiliates...:D

Zamboni

1st to 3rd Year - 90 minutes of 30 lads chasing a football around a pitch.
5th - 6th Year - Non-existent

Shocking looking back now.

**Timbuk2**

I'm very fit - I do a lot of running, loads of cycling (over 9,000km a year) and have competed in many triathlons and some half-Ironmans (not pleasant ).

The point is, I'm fit and all that but I hated P.E. in secondary school. It was compulsory and resembled a Nazi camp - we had to do what the prick teacher told us to. I mean, I understand the idea of getting students fit and all but running around the hall playing 'Olympic Handball', and basketball etc is just shit.

In the end I hated it so much that I accquired North East Health Board (now the H.S.E. I think) stationary paper and wrote myself a nice doctor's cert. It was accepted without question and due to my 'knee problems' I got to go to the study hall every week until the end of the year.

Result.

d'Oracle

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I'm very fit - I do a lot of running, loads of cycling (over 9,000km a year) and have competed in many triathlons and some half-Ironmans (not pleasant ).

The point is, I'm fit and all that but I hated P.E. in secondary school. It was compulsory and resembled a Nazi camp - we had to do what the prick teacher told us to. I mean, I understand the idea of getting students fit and all but running around the hall playing 'Olympic Handball', and basketball etc is just shit.

In the end I hated it so much that I accquired North East Health Board (now the H.S.E. I think) stationary paper and wrote myself a nice doctor's cert. It was accepted without question and due to my 'knee problems' I got to go to the study hall every week until the end of the year.

Result.

Basketball is a great sport.

**Timbuk2**

d'Oracle wrote: »

Basketball is a great sport.

Ahh I suspected this might happen.

I'm sure bball is a great sport for people who like it, but for me I hated it, mainly due to my lack of hand-eye coordination. Tbh I was a bit of a danger to everyone within a 3 metre radius of me

BrianD3

Primary school from about 2nd class onwards - PE for a couple of hours per week which consisted of Gaelic training and matches. I hated it because I was crap and uncoordinated and all attention was focused on the good players who undoubtedly benefited from it while kids such as myself got little benefit from it. Amazing to think that at 9 years old there was already a divide between "jocks" and "nerds"

Secondary school - double class PE once per week for 5 years. Less Gaelic and more variety, a mix of Gaelic, soccer, rugby and running. It wasn't too bad but again there was little encouragement for those who were poor at team sports for whatever reason.

we'llallhavetea_old

I forged a note every single week so i didn't have to do pe. In the end the teacher used to say 'at least just put on the tracksuit for the class!' it was a doss, standing around doing nothing. Complete waste of time.

Roper

Here we go again.

Surprise surprise, people didn't enjoy PE. I didn't enjoy Maths but I'm not on the maths forum complaining about how they didn't cater for disinterested kids in my maths class.

I have the benefit of experience on both sides of the fence here and I'll say this, teachers have it much, much harder than kids in PE, trying to come up with something stimulating and interesting for a class of 30 teenagers every week is not easy when half of them are looking for the door BEFORE the session starts. The alternative to PE is usually nothing, and in our latest survey, 9 out of 10 teenagers preferred nothing to running around.

r3nu4l

Well you see roper, I was one of the kids who enjoyed sport. I played hurling and gaelic football outside of school for my local team. I was never good enough to play for the school but I enjoyed myself.

My point isn't about liking or disliking PE. It's about the lack of structure and let's face it, the lack of curriculum! PE should be about more than running around a field, chasing a ball. There should be 'theory' classes surrounding the benefits of exercise and good diet, covering a lot of the stuff that exists in the stickies on this forum. Kids should learn about the difference between a 30 minute run on a treadmill of consistent intensity and 30 mins of HIIT on a treadmill.

They should learn that weight loss isn't all about treadmills too. The benefits of weight lifting and compound movements, benefits of various sports, benefits of warm-up, cool-down and stretching should all be taught.

That's the problem I have with Physical education, there's fcuk all education in it, most teachers and schools are happy to throw a ball in and let the kids get on with it. The result is that all the happy, sporty kids have a great time and get good exercise but the less sporty kids stand around on the pitch chatting to one another and occasionally having a half-hearted stab at kicking the ball for the benefit of the teacher.

Remmy

We had one double class a week of 40 minutes.They most times consisted of soccer or football.During 6th year circuit training was introduced which was very enjoyable in comparison.There were ancient rusty cast iron weights and we were let do our own thing to an extent.great fun.

Transform

totally agree with you - if you do not like it then do not do it. I loved pe but again in 5th and 6th year it was rubbish

The total lack of good pe classes is what drove me into a career in fitness i.e. if these gobsh1tes can't teach it then i can do it better.

The other issue with PE is that the majority of classes are nothing more than running around rather than sticking some structure on it and maybe some basic testing.

i hear they are working on making PE a subject to study for the leaving so that might changes things.

amacachi

I can't see making PE a Leaving Cert subject improving things all that much, it's gonna be like Applied Maths, only people who are already good at that kind of thing will do it, the ones who are going to be fit and sporty etc. anyway.

rubadub

Roper wrote: »

I didn't enjoy Maths but I'm not on the maths forum complaining about how they didn't cater for disinterested kids in my maths class.

I just did a search for "school" in the maths forum and people were complaining about how multiplication was taught. I did like some maths classes, more applied maths since I had an excellent teacher, a truly remarkable man who did not just go blindly by the textbook but really encouraged developing different solutions. I remember about 5 of us from the same school went onto UCD and were taken aside by a professor of physics who thought we were cheating since we came up with very quick solutions he never had heard of before. I have never seen it in any textbook.

In our PE class we had no education at all about the physicality of human beings, most of my mates have no idea about nutrition, calories, metabolism etc, even the more sporty ones. I would have the same complaints about the mathematics curriculum, most of my mates would not have a clue about how to calculate mortgages, interest, currency in a different country or very simple maths like scaling up a recipe.

I am sure people would complain about language studies focusing far too much on the formal rules, while if you just learned the equivalent of pidgin english for languages it would have been of far more use to you.

I also did have a math teacher who only focused on the better students and left the others fall behind, many of them just care about getting a few A's in their class, just like the PE teacher wanted a few lads to go on an play football at a higher level. I was one of the better ones at math and saw there was a bigger divide than their should have been at the end of the year, due to the teachers neglect.

Roper wrote: »

teachers have it much, much harder than kids in PE, trying to come up with something stimulating and interesting for a class of 30 teenagers every week is not easy

The entire curriculum should change, we had zero classroom education, it should be treated like a real subject, should be one of the most important subject IMO, yet gets treated like an extended lunch break.

amacachi wrote: »

I can't see making PE a Leaving Cert subject improving things all that much, it's gonna be like Applied Maths, only people who are already good at that kind of thing will do it, the ones who are going to be fit and sporty etc. anyway.

It should be compulsory, like english & math. They could have a similar thing "applied PE" or something for people who wanted to become trainers or whatever.

Roper

Okay then, here's a challenge in two parts for anyone who fancies it.

1) Design a PE class for say, a group of 3rd years that will involve and stimulate them all that takes up 80 minutes.

2) Put down what you think a PE subject should contain if it's to be an exam subject.

I also object on behalf of the PE teachers of Ireland, the vast majority of whom are actual PE teachers with qualifications (unlike what some people have contended). I'm not a PE teacher though I've implemented PE classes and advised schools on their curriculum. In my experience, it's PE teachers who face the battle to get kids and parents on board, not kids battling the system to get a better PE class. Parents write notes, especially for girls, willy nilly and kids are aware of insurance stipulations regarding incorrect equipment so will quite often come in without gear knowing they can't participate without it.

Roper

rubadub wrote: »

I just did a search for "school" in the maths forum and people were complaining about how multiplication was taught.

Yes but one of them wasn't me.

In our PE class we had no education at all about the physicality of human beings, most of my mates have no idea about nutrition, calories, metabolism etc, even the more sporty ones.

And only proper too. That would have taken up a lot of time which should have been spent doing of physical activity.

I am sure people would complain about language studies focusing far too much on the formal rules, while if you just learned the equivalent of pidgin english for languages it would have been of far more use to you.

They'd be wrong .

The entire curriculum should change, we had zero classroom education, it should be treated like a real subject, should be one of the most important subject IMO, yet gets treated like an extended lunch break.

It's not treated like a lunch break everywhere. What you have to remember is that PE is a general catch all subject aimed at getting everyone involved. Specific sports coaching takes place out of hours (and on a voluntary basis for the teachers too). PE should be inclusive, fun, relaxed and spread out among as many disciplines as possible. Is it? Not always, but I know a lot of very, very good PE teachers who do everything- hip hop dancing, tag rugby, weightlifting and martial arts. And you know what? The kids still aren't happy, and in ten years time they'll probably be on this forum complaining about how they wasn't enough focus on one thing to make them really good at that.

It should be compulsory, like english & math. They could have a similar thing "applied PE" or something for people who wanted to become trainers or whatever.

What you're talking about is a revamp of the entire system to a more vocational method, which this country has shunned (and rightly shunned) in favour of an academic system.

cowzerp

Roper wrote: »

I also object on behalf of the PE teachers of Ireland, the vast majority of whom are actual PE teachers with qualifications (unlike what some people have contended). I'm not a PE teacher though I've implemented PE classes and advised schools on their curriculum. In my experience, it's PE teachers who face the battle to get kids and parents on board, not kids battling the system to get a better PE class. Parents write notes, especially for girls, willy nilly and kids are aware of insurance stipulations regarding incorrect equipment so will quite often come in without gear knowing they can't participate without it.

Barry i've done many PE sessions for schools and the reason been was the teachers had no clue what to do, it was always lets do basketball, lets do football, gaa, run-my school had top facilities and they where never used,

when i done PE i would do aerobics 1 session, circut train another, boxercise another, made it all fun and with 1 scool the teacher asked me to explain what muscles where woking and what was the point of what we where doing,

The fact of the matter is PE teachers are really normal teachers who do a bit of PE, an hour to have off nearly, the best Fitness trainers or sports people are of different mind set to teachers and the scholar type etc.. which pe teachers need to have, therefore the like of myself would not become a PE teacher as im not a scholar in that way, i'll study lots of fitness and fighting but im not going to put the same effort into goegraphy for example.

the sytem is at fault and PE should be a seperate thing to standard school taught by fitness trainers and not PE teachers who'll be heading to maths class straight after.

ride-the-spiral

In my school PE is 80 minutes a week from 1st until 4th year, but then there's not one single class of it for 5th and 6th. Instead we have religion, and since nobody actually does the religion exam nobody takes it seriously.

Its ridiculous that the arch-diocese care more about us getting a class which nobody cares about than PE.
And in my girlfriends school if you do an 8th subject (Japanese usually), you sacrafice both PE classes but you still have to participate in choir class :eek:

That said i did enjoy PE in my school, it may have just been us playing sport but it was a good way to get exercise and learn about different sports that we wouldn't usually have any exposure to.

brianthebard

There was a pommel horse and other gym stuff in our school that was never used, and we were actively discouraged from using the ping pong tables. At the very least schools should make use of the equipment they have.

rubadub

Roper wrote: »

Yes but one of them wasn't me.

Right, so you are not one for complaining, except complaining about people complaining. I thought you were questioning if people did have issues with other subjects.

Roper wrote: »

That would have taken up a lot of time which should have been spent doing of physical activity.

But it is called P.E., not P.A., I got no education, I played soccer for 5 years and still do not know the offside rule! Most people are saying they only got 2 classes per week on the "subject", and a lot of that was just spent getting changed etc. I did math & english at least once a day.

Roper wrote: »

It's not treated like a lunch break everywhere. What you have to remember is that PE is a general catch all subject aimed at getting everyone involved.

Yes, it seems to have improved, some user was on a month or so ago who seemed to know a bit about it.

Roper wrote: »

I know a lot of very, very good PE teachers who do everything- hip hop dancing, tag rugby, weightlifting and martial arts.

We had a weights "shed" in the school, the PE teacher never mentioned it during any class. Only 1 guy in my year did lifting if I had been educated about the benefits I might have taken it up back then, I certainly wish I did start early in hindsight. It would have suited me far more than "field sports".

Roper wrote: »

What you're talking about is a revamp of the entire system to a more vocational method, which this country has shunned (and rightly shunned) in favour of an academic system.

I am saying it would be worthwhile for people to be educated about their bodies and how to look after themselves, people are taught the capitals of europe yet have no idea how to feed themselves. The "subject" should have other elements to it, like home economics has cooking, looking after money, nutrition etc. We were not even offered home economics as a subject as it was seen as "cooking for girls", like PE is seen as "football/sport".

I think most people would have been better off being forced to learn about proper physical education than to have had irish forced on them.

A revamp of a subject (rather than system), which is a non-existant subject IMO, for me PE would have been better to be simply called "sport", that is all it was. I have no problem with them being physically active, but if that is what PE is then we need another subject teaching people how to take care of themselves, cause god knows many do not have a clue.

Roper

cowzerp wrote: »

The fact of the matter is PE teachers are really normal teachers who do a bit of PE, an hour to have off nearly,

Ask any teacher what the WORST class to take is and they will most likely answer PE. Yes it happens that regular teachers have to take PE because PE teachers are at a premium, but they don't consider it an hour off believe me. Being put outside to supervise 30 lads when you have exams to correct and classes to prepare is not an hour off, it's a pain in the ass.

the best Fitness trainers or sports people are of different mind set to teachers and the scholar type etc.. which pe teachers need to have, therefore the like of myself would not become a PE teacher as im not a scholar in that way, i'll study lots of fitness and fighting but im not going to put the same effort into goegraphy for example.

I think that's a bit harsh. It implies you can't be scholarly and sporty. We both know someone and he's a PE teacher, I think he may qualify as both. Equally, most lads/girls I know who went through the PE teacher training in Limerick or UUJ (I think) are ex-athletes who wanted to teach what they enjoyed. In fact, most of the best athletes I know are university educated.

the sytem is at fault and PE should be a seperate thing to standard school taught by fitness trainers and not PE teachers who'll be heading to maths class straight after.

I don't agree. PE teachers are specialist teachers who have studied how to correctly structure classes, have done semesters on psychology, teaching practise and have degrees. Fitness trainers are qualified to work in gyms and respectfully, I wouldn't let most fitness trainers train my kids based on what I see coming out with NCEF and the like.

r3nu4l

Roper wrote: »

I also object on behalf of the PE teachers of Ireland, the vast majority of whom are actual PE teachers with qualifications (unlike what some people have contended). I'm not a PE teacher though I've implemented PE classes and advised schools on their curriculum.

Maybe the PE teachers of Ireland (many of whom are qualified) need to stand up and demand the development of a proper programme of physical education.

In my experience, it's PE teachers who face the battle to get kids and parents on board, not kids battling the system to get a better PE class. Parents write notes, especially for girls, willy nilly and kids are aware of insurance stipulations regarding incorrect equipment so will quite often come in without gear knowing they can't participate without it.

This I totally agree with and once again I'm NOT having a go at the individual teachers but rather the system that has led to PE being the way it is! That's what needs to change. Give the teacher the right resources and the time to design and implement a good system of PE, proper classes and we're laughing!

If we really are serious about beating the type 2 diabetes epidemic then a national curriculum for PE is important.

Let the girls know that a proper diet doesn't mean starving yoruself or trying a fad diet. Let them know that weightlifting won't turn them into a half-man-half-woman freak. Let the boys know that there's more to weight lifting than biceps curls and that thousands of ab crunches won't necessarily get you a 6-pack.

As for designing a class that keeps the kids interested...well my Biology class wasn't always very interesting, it was most often boring but I still learned enough to get me into a science degree and to become a molecular biologist later

I would have been very happy for a teacher to tell me the purpose of each exercise we were doing and the effect it was having on the body. I'd also have liked to have known about lean sources of protein and how to manage my calorie intake to ensure I got enough protein and limited my refined carbs. Sure, as a teenager I may not have appreciated it all but on the other hand, later in life I would have. Much like my Biology lessons

cowzerp

Roper wrote: »

I think that's a bit harsh. It implies you can't be scholarly and sporty. <snip> is someone we both know and he's a PE teacher, I think he may qualify as both. Equally, most lads/girls I know who went through the PE teacher training in Limerick or UUJ (I think) are ex-athletes who wanted to teach what they enjoyed. In fact, most of the best athletes I know are university educated.

There is always exceptions to the rule, I dont know if <snip> is a good PE teacher either!!

Most people who are top scholars dont play on the school football, gaa, boxing teams, they study but as i said there is always the odd exception.

i think there is 2 types of people 1, scholar and 2, sporty. major stereotype but stereotypes come about for a reason..

cardio,shoot me

I gave up on PE last year when the teacher wouldnt accept that bent over row was for biceps and back, not triceps. I spent a good 30 minutes trying to show him he was wrong and in the end he told me to do a lap of the school.....

Ibrahimovic91

In our school we had the tough enough challenge. Was good I remember.

Jumpy

In our school we had a choice of Bowling, Rock Climbing, Cricket, Roller Skating, Rugby, Kayaking, Surfing, Basketball, Soccer, Baseball plus a load of smaller field sports. Pretty much the last half of the day every Friday was sports day.

Remmy

Jumpy wrote: »

In our school we had a choice of Bowling, Rock Climbing, Cricket, Roller Skating, Rugby, Kayaking, Surfing, Basketball, Soccer, Baseball plus a load of smaller field sports. Pretty much the last half of the day every Friday was sports day.

private school?

Jumpy

Remmy wrote: »

private school?

Normal Public School. In Sydney.

tlev

Yeah but everyone knows Austrailia is better at sports than Ireland

Jumpy

Now you know why

Its not like we had any higher budget than other schools either, they are all like that.

tlev

This is the biggest irony though

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23890071-29277,00.html

Oisinjm

I'm going into fifth year after summer. In my school PE consists of either basketball, gaelic or football. That was for the first three years anyway. In fourth year though it was much better. You have a fitness module with a savage teacher who does strength training. But to be honest, because of the absolutely ****e facilities the school has (zero weights) hes pretty limited.

From first to third year you get one 45 minute class a week. Because i had my PE class on wednesday and we get half days on wednesdays for rugby matches that was changed to 30 minutes in 3rd year. Thats not counting time getting ready etc.

Until this year, I knew sweet f all about weight lifting or staying in shape properly bar running. I didn't even learn what I now know from the school. It was from the rugby coach and more senior players on the team. The school system is facical. There is zero theory done and you dont actually do anything. You just run around like headless chickens for 35 minutes playing football or something. And this is coming from a very sporty person.

Pro-Nutrition

r3nu4l wrote: »

Inspired by something rubadub said in the 'weights for teens' thread...

When I was in secondary school we had PE once a week for 80 mins. From 1st to third year we had a bit of Gaelic football, basketball, hurling, rugby and soccer. We usually had a choice as to which we played. There was no real instruction and certainly no talk of nutrition, flexibility or why sport was good for the body.

Then in 5th and 6th year we were allowed to leave the school to do our own PE without supervision. The choices we were given were, swimming, bowling, snooker or pool or athletics. All unsupervised apart from the occasional time when a teacher would show up at the snooker hall to ensure that we were where we said we were going to be.

It was pitiful, absolutely pitiful.

So in secondary school, in years 1-3 we got about 60 minutes actual sports time per week and that was just games, no real instruction except on occasion. Years 4 and 5 were just dossing time.

How was your PE class in school? Did anyone else have as rubbish a time as me?

Has PE changed? Is there any actual class time devoted to how to train, types of exercise and the benefits of each?

Hey, PE has changed since our day, fuc* now I feel old. Anyway a friend of mine specialises in PE for schools and its brill, she also does classes else where. If anyone would be interested in knowing the schools etc etc where she teaches I will speak to her and post her details.

Roper

r3nu4l wrote: »

Maybe the PE teachers of Ireland (many of whom are qualified) need to stand up and demand the development of a proper programme of physical education.

Well I agree that the system isn't perfect and it's not my point that it is, just that it is better than most would have you believe, that there are a lot of good teachers working within it and that it most certainly should not become a compulsory exam subject. A lot of teachers would agree with you.

This I totally agree with and once again I'm NOT having a go at the individual teachers but rather the system that has led to PE being the way it is! That's what needs to change. Give the teacher the right resources and the time to design and implement a good system of PE, proper classes and we're laughing!

You could substitute PE for Maths, English, Science or any other subject in that paragraph and it would still make sense in an Irish context.

If we really are serious about beating the type 2 diabetes epidemic then a national curriculum for PE is important.

Well the thing about that is that if it is being left to schools to raise awareness and educate about diet, then it is just another case of people asking schools to do a parent's job.

Let the girls know that a proper diet doesn't mean starving yoruself or trying a fad diet. Let them know that weightlifting won't turn them into a half-man-half-woman freak. Let the boys know that there's more to weight lifting than biceps curls and that thousands of ab crunches won't necessarily get you a 6-pack.

I fail to see how that is the job of a school.

As for designing a class that keeps the kids interested...well my Biology class wasn't always very interesting, it was most often boring but I still learned enough to get me into a science degree and to become a molecular biologist later

Well if you're a molecular biologist, you can't have been very sporty

I would have been very happy for a teacher to tell me the purpose of each exercise we were doing and the effect it was having on the body. I'd also have liked to have known about lean sources of protein and how to manage my calorie intake to ensure I got enough protein and limited my refined carbs. Sure, as a teenager I may not have appreciated it all but on the other hand, later in life I would have. Much like my Biology lessons

Okay so that would be fine and dandy, but when you have an hour or two a week and your remit is to get them active, destress them and keep them interested, explaining protein sysnthesis is not the way to go.

cowzerp wrote:

There is always exceptions to the rule, I dont know if <snip> is a good PE teacher either!!

Dublin goalkeeper Stephen Cluxton is a teacher, just another example. My wife is a teacher and former sprinter, I'm a non-practising teacher, 2 of my brother in laws are teachers, one a current out-half for a rugby team and the other a former International level middle distance runner. I'd say the ratio of teacher/athletes to non athletes is about the same as in any walk of life.

Most people who are top scholars dont play on the school football, gaa, boxing teams, they study but as i said there is always the odd exception.

I totally disagree. To keep the examples coming, Ciaran McGeeney is an engineer, Seán Óg O'Hailpín has a degree and works in banking, I could go on. The list would literally be endless. As I've said, the amount of people in higher education who are athletes would probably be equivalent to the amount of people not in higher education.

i think there is 2 types of people 1, scholar and 2, sporty. major stereotype but stereotypes come about for a reason..

Yes they come about through ignorance. I think that statement is massively unfair to pretty much everyone it pigeon holes.

David Jones

Oh dear where to start?

I was intending to stay out of this thread but since my name has been what I would call inappropriately mentioned I cant stay out of it. I have no problem with my ability as a BJJ instructor being called into question but when it comes to my professional career particularly by people less qualified in the field than myself I do have a problem.

Yes I am a PE teacher and have been for the last 13 years. I graduated with a 1st class honours degree in sports studies specialising in biomechanics and physiology. I have a post graduateship in Secondary Physical Education and taught PE to GCSE and A Level in the UK. I have a YMCA Fitness and Free Weights instructor qualification along with numerous NCTC Level 1s in Rugby, Hockey, Basketball, Gaelic etc A curriculum teachers Gymnastics Certificate plus last weekend I just completed a Crossfit Olympic Lifts Cert (there were 5 other PE teachers present on this course) so my education is ongoing something I take pride in. Outside of this I have been a strength and conditioning coach with both Lansdowne and Seapoint rugby clubs and Corinthians hockey club. I also run Next Generation Fighting Academy in Loughlinstown.

There is a New Physical Education Curriculum in Ireland. It is basically a copy of the UK National PE curriculum which is taken to GCSE and A Level status.
Theory classes are backed up by practical classes in a whole range of activities. The curriculum caters for all and is not just for the sporty students. It is all inclusive, incorporating all students with ability and disability alike. I would strongly suggest before start you suggest how PE should be in Ireland, you read the new curriculums on
http://www.jcpe.ie

I would greatly appreciate it Barry and Paul (since we are using real names) that you not refer to my abilities in my chosen career. If you would like to call in sometime and witness a what goes on in a PE class taught by a PE specialist (I dont rush off to maths or anything else Paul) then you are more than welcome. You can come in and witness a 4th year MMA class,A gymnastics class, dance, yoga, sports acrobatics, rugby, hockey, badminton, basketball, handball, frisbee, volleyball, lacrosse, american football, hurling, football, soccer, weight training, athletics, baseball, rounders, tennis, golf, trampolining.........the list goes on, hopefully you are getting the picture.

i think there is 2 types of people 1, scholar and 2, sporty. major stereotype but stereotypes come about for a reason..

Do you actually believe that or was it just something controversial to say? Thats like saying you dont need a brain to be good at sport? I cant begin to explain how angry that comment makes me.

I would greatly appreciate it if a moderator (one who wasnt neglected in PE class) could delete my name in the above posts. Thank you.

gillian147

Firstly, well said David Jones. The only post on the thread that has actually come from someone who not only knows what they are talking about but is qualified.

I myself have been a PE teacher for almost 8 years. I have an Honours degree in Sports Management, A Post Graduateship in Secondary Physical Education, not to mention being qualified as a Fitness instructor and Personal Trainer. I have coaching qualifications in at least 15 different areas and at least at level one, from Swimming and Gymnastics to Hockey, Kayaking and Rock Climbing. The list is endless.

Like David Jones I take my continued professional development very seriously. I have invested endless time and my own money to keep myself on top of my game.

I taught in England for 5 years after I qualified. I have extensive experience in all areas of Physical Education, including GCSE and A level (which is like sitting a junior cert or leaving cert PE theory and practical exam)

I understand your complaints about how PE was when you went to school but it is of no fault of your PE teachers (whether they were good or not).

It is only in the last few years that a new curriculum for Physical Education has been made available for teachers. The lack of facilities in our schools will have a large effect on how this is implemented.

Myself and David Jones are PE specialists, trained to teach PE, not any other subjects.

Physical Education is changing in Ireland, it will be a while before we catch up with the UK and the rest of Europe (and the world).

If you guys are into fitness (as the forum title suggests) how about you do something useful for your old school and raise some much needed funds for equipment or facilities? If you are afraid it might be spent on footballs, why dont you donate a piece of equipment of your choice? (Better still lobby your local TD who represents the government who have taken away almost every bit of funding from our schools)

ride-the-spiral

I think its right that P.E. needs to be taught as a class more, and less as a break for students.

You could say we learned a good bit in P.E, we were encouraged to try different sports and we played a good mix. We were also taught how to use gym equipment properly and what equipment helps what muscles.

We spent a few classes on overall fitness and how the body's energy works, i thought that this was a better way to treat the subject because it actually helps students do training properly, rather than just running till they're wrecked to stay fit. Much more effective way of tackling fitness problems than just throwing the kids a football.

There should be an outlined Cirruculum for P.E. teachers and it should be mandatory for all years. But it's not like thats gonna happen anytime soon if the damn arch-diocese has anything to say on the matter.

Roper

David Jones wrote: »

I would greatly appreciate it Barry and Paul (since we are using real names) that you not refer to my abilities in my chosen career. If you would like to call in sometime and witness a what goes on in a PE class taught by a PE specialist (I dont rush off to maths or anything else Paul) then you are more than welcome. You can come in and witness a 4th year MMA class,A gymnastics class, dance, yoga, sports acrobatics, rugby, hockey, badminton, basketball, handball, frisbee, volleyball, lacrosse, american football, hurling, football, soccer, weight training, athletics, baseball, rounders, tennis, golf, trampolining.........the list goes on, hopefully you are getting the picture.

<snip> hope the pm explains my reference to you. To clear up to anyone else reading, I was using you as a positive example, since one was needed, of a qualified, university educated PE teacher. I know a good few of them, just not any that Paul knows too.

I would greatly appreciate it if a moderator (one who wasnt neglected in PE class) could delete my name in the above posts. Thank you.

I've just edited my post to leave out your name. It wasn't my intention to have your name used as a debating point, just to try to find some common ground.

Every now and then this topic comes up, and a bit like the Joe Duffy show, all you get is negatives. People like blaming others, especially authorities on pretty much everything.

Roper

gillian147 wrote: »

If you guys are into fitness (as the forum title suggests) how about you do something useful for your old school and raise some much needed funds for equipment or facilities? If you are afraid it might be spent on footballs, why dont you donate a piece of equipment of your choice? (Better still lobby your local TD who represents the government who have taken away almost every bit of funding from our schools)

An excellent idea! I call for a boards fundraiser!

g'em

Roper wrote: »

An excellent idea! I call for a boards fundraiser!

Frankly I think it's a bloody amazing idea.

Boards.ie is a growing community. It's fnuking huge in fact and for a while now I've been wondering what this very sturdy Fitness community could do to give a little back.

Lads, I think we've just found our calling.

\goes off to start a new thread and lets this one get back on topic...

rubadub

Roper wrote: »

Well the thing about that is that if it is being left to schools to raise awareness and educate about diet, then it is just another case of people asking schools to do a parent's job.

So what other subjects currently taught in schools do you think should be left up to parents?

My & most of my friends parents would be no more fit to teach me about nutrition than thermodynamics, most are ignorant about both subjects. Most never learned it themselves so I would not expect them to be able to teach me.

David Jones

There should be an outlined Cirruculum for P.E. teachers and it should be mandatory for all years. But it's not like thats gonna happen anytime soon if the damn arch-diocese has anything to say on the matter.

Not too sure if you were paying attention down the back, so I will reiterate, there is a National PE Curriculum. www.jcpe.ie If its not being implemented fully or at all in your local school, it is most likely due to lack of funding, facilities, and equipment.

r3nu4l

Roper wrote: »

...it most certainly should not become a compulsory exam subject.

I totally agree with this, in fact I don't think it should be examined in any official way by the state UNLESS it's as a prerequisite for studying courses such as sports management/science.

You could substitute PE for Maths, English, Science or any other subject in that paragraph and it would still make sense in an Irish context.

Don't get me started on the other subjects

Well the thing about that is that if it is being left to schools to raise awareness and educate about diet, then it is just another case of people asking schools to do a parent's job. I fail to see how that is the job of a school.

Unfortunately I think you are wrong here. The ugly fact is that most parents haven't a clue about fitness, diet and nutrition. The only way to correct that is to start in the schools. Sorry but that's the way it is now that the rot has well and truly set in.

Well if you're a molecular biologist, you can't have been very sporty

I also practiced martial arts, was an active member of the scouts and went away on hiking and camping weekends once every 6 weeks! It would have been more only for GAA training and matches

Okay so that would be fine and dandy, but when you have an hour or two a week and your remit is to get them active, destress them and keep them interested, explaining protein sysnthesis is not the way to go.

No but taking 2 minutes to explain the purpose and benefits of the exercise that the class are about to do helps to motivate people!

David Jones wrote: »

...with my ability as a BJJ instructor being called into question but when it comes to my professional career particularly by people less qualified in the field than myself I do have a problem.

For the record, I haven't questioned the ability of ANY PE teachers, I've questioned the way PE is 'taught' in Ireland. I've also explained that I understand that this isn't necessarily the fault of the teachers (although I do know of one spectacularly lazy PE teacher (who is fully qualified to teach PE btw!)

Yes I am a PE teacher and have been for the last 13 years. I graduated with a 1st class honours degree...

Good.

There is a New Physical Education Curriculum in Ireland. It is basically a copy of the UK National PE curriculum which is taken to GCSE and A Level status.
Theory classes are backed up by practical classes in a whole range of activities. The curriculum caters for all and is not just for the sporty students. It is all inclusive, incorporating all students with ability and disability alike. I would strongly suggest before start you suggest how PE should be in Ireland, you read the new curriculums on
http://www.jcpe.ie

Now that is excellent news! I see there is an induction day for NEW teachers...will there be training workshops for current PE teachers to help them learn the curriculum?

I would greatly appreciate it if a moderator (one who wasnt neglected in PE class) could delete my name in the above posts. Thank you.

Might be hard pushed to find one judging by this thread In all seriousness, I did have ONE very memorable PE class where the teacher gave us some coaching in defensive work in soccer and it still stands out in my mind to this day but that was only 5 minutes of one class in five years of secondary school PE!

gillian147 wrote: »

Firstly, well said David Jones. The only post on the thread that has actually come from someone who not only knows what they are talking about but is qualified.

Sorry if you're offended gillian but the fact remains that PE in Ireland has been next to useless for far too many years now in the vast majority of schools in the country. There have been exceptions but they have been very few in number.

As a result, we now have thousands of parents who don't know how to help their kids lead a better lifestyle in terms of diet and fitness. This is why I'm delighted to hear about the new curriculum because the majority of parents are not capable of teaching their kids this stuff, maybe when these kids graduate and become parents themselves they can better teach their kids to be healthy.

I myself have been a PE teacher for almost 8 years. I have an Honours degree in Sports Management, A Post Graduateship in Secondary Physical Education, not to mention being qualified as a Fitness instructor and Personal Trainer. I have coaching qualifications in at least 15 different areas and at least at level one, from Swimming and Gymnastics to Hockey, Kayaking and Rock Climbing. The list is endless.

Cool, glad to hear that too...although I'm sure the list does end at some stage!

I taught in England for 5 years after I qualified. I have extensive experience in all areas of Physical Education, including GCSE and A level (which is like sitting a junior cert or leaving cert PE theory and practical exam)

We've established you're qualified, now let me reiterate once again, I wasn't having a go at the individual teachers :rolleyes: Dismount the (high) horse please

I understand your complaints about how PE was when you went to school but it is of no fault of your PE teachers (whether they were good or not).

See above. If you had read my other posts you would have seen me say the same thing.

Myself and David Jones are PE specialists, trained to teach PE, not any other subjects.

About time this happened in schools!

Physical Education is changing in Ireland, it will be a while before we catch up with the UK and the rest of Europe (and the world).

Glad to hear it and without my starting this thread and you and David replying I still wouldn't know any better. Here's hoping teachers are actually trained to implement this programme properly and given the resources.

If you guys are into fitness (as the forum title suggests) how about you do something useful for your old school and raise some much needed funds for equipment or facilities? If you are afraid it might be spent on footballs, why dont you donate a piece of equipment of your choice? (Better still lobby your local TD who represents the government who have taken away almost every bit of funding from our schools)

Waaaay ahead of you. My old school now has a new gym complete with free weights, weight machines and some cardio machines as well as mats, chin up/pullup bars, swiss balls etc. thanks to donations from me and a lot of other people.

As for lobbying the TD, I live in the UK so am no longer a constituent. That means that the TD and local councillor's eyes glaze over as they think of a way to get me off the phone if I call them. I can't vote for them so I'm useless to them

d'Oracle

Roper wrote: »

Well if you're a molecular biologist, you can't have been very sporty

Roper, that is an outrageous and foolish generalisation.

I know Engineers, Doctors, Analysts, Lab scientists and at least one actuary who played sports extensively in and after school.

1≠1

Junior cycle - We had the choice to do P.E. I shít you not, it was between P.E., Home Eco, Woodwork and Art so I chose Woodwork. There was a clause though if you didn't pick P.E. you have to do a sport AFTER school so I picked Football (Soccer) and Hockey.

Transition year - Choice yet again P.E. or Business Studies nearly everyone picked Business and by this stage everyone knew you could get away without doing a sport but I picked P.E. and our teacher was from the North and did his P.E. degree in Liverpool so he ONLY could teach P.E. and Health Ed. We would have a double class twice a week a class was ~40mins. At the start we did a lot of stuff like hockey, rugby, soccer, tennis, volleyball, badminton, basketball, rounders and athletics. For 6 weeks we went to a gym that was about 5mins walk away from the school and went to the swimming pool a few times. But once everyone stopped doing Business and took up P.E. we where split into two groups boys and girls. We mostly played football and the girls did tennis or rounders but a good few times our P.E. teacher was out and we had to join the girls in what ever sport they where doing which was mostly rounders.

Senior cycle - Again a choice, I did the other 3 choices that I could do before picking P.E. and there was a G.C.S.E. PE exam at the end of it :eek:. There was only about 15 of us in the class but we did a lot of stuff including a lot of circuit training and prober training in hockey and football. He got us to sprint to 25m line and then run backwards then to the 50m etc. to show us a build up of lactic acid in our muscles. For them two years all of us were super fit then in 6th year some guy came in to examine us on our fitness and two sports we picked so I chose football and swimming so we had to play a game to show him our skill but it was actually our teacher who marked us and the guy was there just to make sure he wasn't given us too high marks. A few weeks after that we sat an written exam and I ended up getting a C. Only 5 of us sat the exam.

1≠1

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I'm very fit - I do a lot of running, loads of cycling (over 9,000km a year) and have competed in many triathlons and some half-Ironmans (not pleasant ).

The point is, I'm fit and all that but I hated P.E. in secondary school. It was compulsory and resembled a Nazi camp - we had to do what the prick teacher told us to. I mean, I understand the idea of getting students fit and all but running around the hall playing 'Olympic Handball', and basketball etc is just shit.

In the end I hated it so much that I accquired North East Health Board (now the H.S.E. I think) stationary paper and wrote myself a nice doctor's cert. It was accepted without question and due to my 'knee problems' I got to go to the study hall every week until the end of the year.

Result.

What school was that in?

If it is the school I am thinking of would the PE teacher happen to be a bit fat by any chance?

Roper

d'Oracle wrote: »

Roper, that is an outrageous and foolish generalisation.

I know Engineers, Doctors, Analysts, Lab scientists and at least one actuary who played sports extensively in and after school.

Try reading the whole topic please. I know "find the Roperism" can be a fun game to play but you're a good half mile wide of the mark in this case.

David Jones

Now that is excellent news! I see there is an induction day for NEW teachers...will there be training workshops for current PE teachers to help them learn the curriculum?

There have been training workshops for the last 3 - 4 years. All qualified PE specialists and obviously those who have taught GCSE and A Level PE in the UK are well able to deliver the curriculum as it stands. The inservice workshops are designed to help those graduates who did not qualify in the UK or more recently in Ireland. The main obstacle to the delivery of the curriculum is lack of government funding for equipment and access to facilities.

Sorry if you're offended gillian but the fact remains that PE in Ireland has been next to useless for far too many years now in the vast majority of schools in the country. There have been exceptions but they have been very few in number.

As a result, we now have thousands of parents who don't know how to help their kids lead a better lifestyle in terms of diet and fitness. This is why I'm delighted to hear about the new curriculum because the majority of parents are not capable of teaching their kids this stuff, maybe when these kids graduate and become parents themselves they can better teach their kids to be healthy.

Thousands of parents who dont know how to help their kids in terms of diet and fitness?? How about limiting time on the playstation or xbox and getting them out to a local sports club or even getting off their own fat asses and walking, cycling, playing football etc with their kids. No the Nintendo Wii fit is not a substitute, its a cleverly marketed gimmick. Very easy to blame teachers, I suppose if they end up doing drugs late at night it is the teacher's fault too?? Maybe parents should keep track of where their kids are and who they are hanging around with and what they are doing with their time. If you have kids you need to shoulder the majority of the burden of raising them.

Cool, glad to hear that too...although I'm sure the list does end at some stage!

I think Gillian was trying to get across that your education doesnt stop with your degree and that any motivated individual is always seeking to better themselves.

We've established you're qualified, now let me reiterate once again, I wasn't having a go at the individual teachers Dismount the (high) horse please

I dont think you have the right to say we have established anything other than the fact you had a very negative experience of PE at school. Thats a shame, but carrying around a chip on your shoulder about physical education isnt the healthiest of options. I dont need you to accept my qualifications nor care about them in the slightest and if anyone is on a high horse about something and needs to dismount its you.

Glad to hear it and without my starting this thread and you and David replying I still wouldn't know any better. Here's hoping teachers are actually trained to implement this programme properly and given the resources.

How about instead you try using google in future and type in physical education ireland. Plenty of information on the new curriculum its development and how its being integrated.

Waaaay ahead of you. My old school now has a new gym complete with free weights, weight machines and some cardio machines as well as mats, chin up/pullup bars, swiss balls etc. thanks to donations from me and a lot of other people.

Great stuff, despite your negative PE experience you have obviously become a balanced and generous individual who is willing to give back to a faculty he sees as failing him in his teenage years. Maybe your experience will lead to further acts of generosity. As for being way ahead of us with the fundraising, we as PE teachers due to the lack of government funds for anything to do with sport in this country have been fundraising for years. From sponsored walks for equipment to indoor soccer marathons and cake sales for sportshalls. Its nothing new, In the USA a certain portion of your taxes goes to fund your local schools, it is unfortunate in this country we have to rely on individual benefactors and self fundraising for our equipment.

"Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack." George S Patton

RandomIrl

In primary school we had about 40 minutes of GYM a week with an external teacher who used to do gymnastics with us. It involved us twisting our bodies into various tumbles and headstands and me being the tall awkward type could never manage the chinese head balance.
then one day our darling gym teacher broke one of the students arms.

PE in secondary school in first year we were graced with 80 mins (minus the usual 20 for girls togging in and togging out) and it involved badmington bball and rounders.
For second and third year we had 40 minutes..still minus the 20 minutes so that equals you guessed it....20 minutes of PE
in TY we had 80 minutes actually a good year PE wise different modules, self defence aerobics yoga etc.
5th year.. to be honest i got to the stage where i said.. F*** it im not wasting my time bringing in gear for 20 minutes of PE....the mother agreed and wrote notes.!!
6th year.PE was optional....lets just say i optioned out!!!!