Open Drive Insurance Question

squareboy007

Hi,

Quick question regarding open drive insurance?

My policy has open drive insurance on it. does that mean i can drive others peoples cars 3rd party or that other people can drive mine 3rd party.

Is there an age minimum age limit in general?

Cheers

Radharc na Sleibhte

Open Drive = People can drive your car.

Driving Other Cars = Means you can drive other peoples cars.

Open drive is usually (but not always) 25-70 and will give the cover under the policy ie third party, comp etc.

Driving other cars is usually (but not always third party) only.

Safest way is to ring your Insurers or check your cert to be sure.
Cert won't tell you what cover policy gives (usually) but will tell you if policy provides either or both of the above extensions.

squareboy007

Thank you...that explains alot

MidnightQueen

Which insurance companies cover this? Or does it have to be requested?

ha-ya-said-what

I have it on my policy with Zurich & never requested it, I have 3rd party cover on anyone elses car ........... my only fault on it, it puts ya in line tho for the "eehhh i drove to the pub & one thing lead to another, can ya come pick me & the car up"

Max_Damage

Hibernian (or Aviva or whatever they are now) have open driving for anyone 18 years old and older. They are the only ones to do it for that age group AFAIK.

The Skipper

AXA is 18 years also.

Gary ITR

This can be different on different policies. Only real way to know is to check with your insurance company

Delancey

Forgive me for stating the bleeding obvious here but it is really important to remember that the vast majority of ' open drive ' policies require the car other than yours to have its own separate insurance policy.
In otherwords if your friend has just bought a Ford Focus and has not yet put insurance in place then you are NOT insured to drive it despite having an ' open drive ' policy.

Like I said , forgive me for highlighting something that many / most of you already know.

Anan1

Delancey wrote: »

Forgive me for stating the bleeding obvious here but it is really important to remember that the vast majority of ' open drive ' policies require the car other than yours to have its own separate insurance policy.
In otherwords if your friend has just bought a Ford Focus and has not yet put insurance in place then you are NOT insured to drive it despite having an ' open drive ' policy.

Like I said , forgive me for highlighting something that many / most of you already know.

I'd actually take this a step further and advise people to always assume that they're not insured until they have it in black & white that they are.

coylemj

Delancey wrote: »

Forgive me for stating the bleeding obvious here but it is really important to remember that the vast majority of ' open drive ' policies require the car other than yours to have its own separate insurance policy.

No they do not, this gets repeated endlessly and it is JUST NOT TRUE.

I'm with Axa and have researched this to the nth degree. The only stipulation with regard to me driving another car is that it must not be owned by me, it must not be hired to me and (haven't checked this lately but it was in the policy document a couple of years ago) it must not be leased to my employer meaning that if I borrow a company car from a colleague I will not be covered by my own policy.

Nowhere is it stated that the car must be insured under a different policy and I'm not aware that any other company imposes such a condition.

You may be confused by a clause contained in most policies which states that if you borrow someone's else's car and your use of it is covered by the his policy then in the event of a claim you should claim from your friend's policy rather than your own but ultimately if that falls through, your own policy will cover it so there is no absolute requirement for the car to have it's own policy before you can drive it and be covered.

If you disagree, please tell me which company imposes such a condition, I will happily download their policy document and check it out.

Delancey

I guess if you've researched it then you're correct . My own Policy ( Quinn ) does state that when driving another vehicle it must have its own cover in place though.

coylemj

Delancey wrote: »

I guess if you've researched it then you're correct . My own Policy ( Quinn ) does state that when driving another vehicle it must have its own cover in place though.

If they're saying that then effectively they do not cover their policyholders when they driving other people's cars.

Mister Jingles

Delancey wrote: »

Forgive me for stating the bleeding obvious here but it is really important to remember that the vast majority of ' open drive ' policies require the car other than yours to have its own separate insurance policy.
In otherwords if your friend has just bought a Ford Focus and has not yet put insurance in place then you are NOT insured to drive it despite having an ' open drive ' policy.

Like I said , forgive me for highlighting something that many / most of you already know.

So how would that work when someone who has just bought a car but hasn't gotten insurance for it yet and need someone to drive it home from the seller's location ?

CiniO

Delancey wrote: »

I guess if you've researched it then you're correct . My own Policy ( Quinn ) does state that when driving another vehicle it must have its own cover in place though.

So AXA doesn't reqire it.
Quinn does.

Aviva and Allianz (checked by me) doesn't require it either.
The same as far as I remember FBD, 123, and RSA don't require it as well.

Delancey

coylemj wrote: »

If they're saying that then effectively they do not cover their policyholders when they driving other people's cars.

Interesting point you make alright.

Actually when I was renewing earlier this year I phoned Quinn to ask about 'open drive ' and they said that they did do what I'll call 'True ' open drive where I would be covered to drive any car regardless of its insurance staus - however the premium quoted was almost 4 times my renewal quote :rolleyes:

For my own policy at the lower premium they said I was covered on other vehicles provided there was an existing policy in place.
I never asked about whose policy a claim would be made on in the event of an accident.

I guess the advice of '' check first '' applies especially here.

coylemj

Delancey wrote: »

I guess if you've researched it then you're correct . My own Policy ( Quinn ) does state that when driving another vehicle it must have its own cover in place though.

CiniO wrote: »

So AXA doesn't reqire it.
Quinn does.

As promised, I downloaded the Quinn policy document just now.

Under General Exceptions on P. 11 is the following

2. We will not provide cover if the insured person is entitled to claim or is covered under any other policy.

Which is the point I mentioned in my earlier post i.e. if you can claim off the other guy's insurance then you must do so.

However on P.15 in the section titled 'Driving Other Cars' it says the following.....

If your certificate of insurance says so, we will also cover you, the policyholder, for your liability to other people while you are driving any other private motor car which you do not own or have not hired or leased, as long as:

1. the vehicle is not owned by your employer or hired to them under a hire-purchase or lease agreement;
2. you currently hold a full European Union (EU) licence;
3. the use of the vehicle is covered in the certificate of insurance;
4. cover is not provided by any other insurance;
5. you have the owner’s permission to drive the vehicle;
6. the vehicle is in a roadworthy condition; and
7. you still have the insured vehicle and it has not been damaged beyond cost-effective repair.

http://www.quinn-direct.com/ireland/car/policyinfo.html

Section 4. basically says that if your use of the car is not covered by any other policy, Quinn will cover you.

Q.E.D.

Delancey

I would have presumed that the position on open drive would be very similar to the UK position ?
When watching shows like Car Wars , Traffic Cops , etc you often have situations where Police stop a car when the ANPR activates a No Insurance flag , the driver genuinely believes they are covered under their own policy but it transpires that because the vehicle does not have its own policy then the drivers policy is null and void for this situation .

Ok I know one should take things on TV with a grain of salt but I was sure that ' open drive ' is really riddled with conditions ?

Delancey

coylemj wrote: »

As promised, I downloaded the Quinn policy document just now.

Under General Exceptions on P. 11 is the following

2. We will not provide cover if the insured person is entitled to claim or is covered under any other policy.

Which is the point I mentioned in my earlier post i.e. if you can claim off the other guy's insurance then you must do so.


However on P.15 in the section titled 'Driving Other Cars' it says the following.....


If your certificate of insurance says so, we will also cover you, the policyholder, for your liability to other people while you are driving any other private motor car which you do not own or have not hired or leased, as long as:

1. the vehicle is not owned by your employer or hired to them under a hire-purchase or lease agreement;
2. you currently hold a full European Union (EU) licence;
3. the use of the vehicle is covered in the certificate of insurance;
4. cover is not provided by any other insurance;
5. you have the owner’s permission to drive the vehicle;
6. the vehicle is in a roadworthy condition; and
7. you still have the insured vehicle and it has not been damaged beyond cost-effective repair.

http://www.quinn-direct.com/ireland/car/policyinfo.html

Section 4. basically says that if your use of the car is not covered by any other policy, Quinn will cover you.

Q.E.D.

Cheers ! Obviously the folks in Quinn ain't too knowledgeable about their own product - they clearly told me that a separate policy was essential :mad:

Otis Driftwood

There seems to be a bit of confusion in regards to open driving and the driving of other cars extension.

Open driving means that others are covered to drive your car (usually at the same level of cover you have once they fall within the correct criteria).

Driving of other cars means you are covered to drive someone elses car under your own insurance (for most companies this is third party only but there are a few that offer comp DOC)

CiniO

Delancey wrote: »

Cheers ! Obviously the folks in Quinn ain't too knowledgeable about their own product - they clearly told me that a separate policy was essential :mad:

That's not just with Quinn.
I have a feeling that every insurance company employs people who has no clue what they are saying.
Good few times I was ringing my insurer (or rather few insureres over last few year), and I was getting contradicting answers from different people.

Best change is to find some interesting question, ring the insruance company and get answer.
Then ring again, talk to someone else, and get exactly opposite answer.

Delancey

I could probably ring the same insurer 3 times for a quote and get a different figure every time :rolleyes:

hurlersx

HI there,

Still a little confused by this Open Driving on car insurance.
I have it on my Hibernian policy which is due for renewal and not really sure if I need it.
Dosent most peoples own car insurance cover them to drive my car, and if so, why would I need open driving on my car insurance?

Thanks

hondasam

hurlersx wrote: »

HI there,

Still a little confused by this Open Driving on car insurance.
I have it on my Hibernian policy which is due for renewal and not really sure if I need it.
Dosent most peoples own car insurance cover them to drive my car, and if so, why would I need open driving on my car insurance?

Thanks

Does anyone else drive your car? if not then you don't need it.
If one person has access to your car put them as a named driver.
Having open driven means other people who drive it only need to have a full d/lic and be over a certain age. They would not need to have insurance on another car.

hurlersx

Lets say my sister comes home from England and she uses it...what Im asking is, dosent her own car insurance cover her to drive my car without the need for me to have open driving?
Getting her put as a named driver costs the same as having open driving anyway, just looking to cut down the premium now, so was just wondering about this.

Cheers

hondasam

hurlersx wrote: »

Lets say my sister comes home from England and she uses it...what Im asking is, dosent her own car insurance cover her to drive my car without the need for me to have open driving?
Getting her put as a named driver costs the same as having open driving anyway, just looking to cut down the premium now, so was just wondering about this.

Cheers

That would depend on her policy, not all policies are the same and an insurance policy in another country would be different I would imagine.

coylemj

hurlersx wrote: »

Lets say my sister comes home from England and she uses it...what Im asking is, dosent her own car insurance cover her to drive my car without the need for me to have open driving?
Getting her put as a named driver costs the same as having open driving anyway, just looking to cut down the premium now, so was just wondering about this.

Cheers

Have you established that it does cost extra? My take on it is that it benefits insurance companies by giving you open driving because for example it reduces the chances that you'll drive home from a social event with a few drinks on you instead of letting a sober person with a full licence do it and similarly if you're driving on a long journey and feel tired, having open driving allows you to share the driving with someone else thereby reducing the chances of a claim.

Having open driving also allows you to lend your car to a visitor without worrying if their insurance covers them to drive other cars. In the case of your sister, you can't be 100% sure that her policy allows her to borrow a car in another country and be covered under her policy. Do you know for a fact that you can borrow a car in the UK and drive it under your policy?

hurlersx

Yeah, last year had her and father as named drivers on my policy, cant remember how much, but think was 70 or 80 extra having them on it so took them off. The open driving adds just over €50 to the policy.
Reason I have open driving to date is in case I'm tired driving and just let someone else drive the car, so it does have its uses, and like you say, you cant be sure another persons policy covers them to drive my car, .
Was just using my sister in UK as an example, but in general was wondering do policies in Ireland allow you to drive other peoples cars (with their permission of course). I remember asking the insurance company last year to clarify what open driving meant, as even people at work thought open driving meant they could drive other peoples cars. I asked them then if I am insured to drive other peoples cars under my policy and they said I was.

Anan1

coylemj wrote: »

Have you established that it does cost extra? My take on it is that it benefits insurance companies by giving you open driving because for example it reduces the chances that you'll drive home from a social event with a few drinks on you instead of letting a sober person with a full licence do it and similarly if you're driving on a long journey and feel tired, having open driving allows you to share the driving with someone else thereby reducing the chances of a claim.

Having open driving also allows you to lend your car to a visitor without worrying if their insurance covers them to drive other cars. In the case of your sister, you can't be 100% sure that her policy allows her to borrow a car in another country and be covered under her policy. Do you know for a fact that you can borrow a car in the UK and drive it under your policy?

I've always been charged for open driving.

coylemj

hurlersx wrote: »

I remember asking the insurance company last year to clarify what open driving meant, as even people at work thought open driving meant they could drive other peoples cars. I asked them then if I am insured to drive other peoples cars under my policy and they said I was.

I appreciate the confusion but in fact there is no legal definition for the term 'open driving' so it could mean you driving other cars or other people driving your car. The short answer always is to check your cert. because it will be set out there which cars you are covered to drive and who can drive your car.

A lot of people answer insurance questions on this forum by saying 'ask the insurance company'. In fact the answer you get over the phone can be denied by the insurance company because if you check the policy document it will clearly state that the policy is the only game in town, anything a call agent tells you on the phone isn't worth a bucket of p1ss.

mathepac

Delancey wrote: »

Forgive me for stating the bleeding obvious here but it is really important to remember that the vast majority of ' open drive ' policies require the car other than yours to have its own separate insurance policy.
In otherwords if your friend has just bought a Ford Focus and has not yet put insurance in place then you are NOT insured to drive it despite having an ' open drive ' policy.

Like I said , forgive me for highlighting something that many / most of you already know.

I am not asking forgiveness for stating the bleedin' obvious here but you have the whole issue arse about face, and clearly don't know the difference between 'open drive' and 'driving other cars' policy extensions.

Open drive policy extension - drivers other than the insured or any named driver on that policy driving the insured's car (usually with third-party cover, but check your policy and usually covers drivers between 25 and 70 with a licence).

Driving other cars policy extension - using your own policy to cover your driving of a car for which you do not have explicit cover under another policy. The usual requirements are :

• not a commercial vehicle
• not owned by you
• not rented or leased to you under a HP agreement, etc

Read your policies folks, it important you know the difference between these extensions. In the example above your own 'driving other cars' extension should cover you, but check.

Our man in Havana

Delancey wrote: »

I would have presumed that the position on open drive would be very similar to the UK position ?
When watching shows like Car Wars , Traffic Cops , etc you often have situations where Police stop a car when the ANPR activates a No Insurance flag , the driver genuinely believes they are covered under their own policy but it transpires that because the vehicle does not have its own policy then the drivers policy is null and void for this situation .

Ok I know one should take things on TV with a grain of salt but I was sure that ' open drive ' is really riddled with conditions ?

The UK has some strange insurance customs.

mathepac

Delancey wrote: »

I would have presumed that the position on open drive would be very similar to the UK position ? ...

As pointed out above, don't 'presume' that UK TV cop 'documentaries' reflect insurance / motoring law in Ireland.

coylemj

Mathepac, you picked a post from Delancey off page 1 without reading the following posts in the thread.

I don't think anyone is too concered about whether the term 'open driving' refers to people driving your car or you driving other cars, it's not defined in the RTA, it isn't mentioned (specifically as a term) on insurance certificates and I'm sure it means different things to different insurance companies.

mathepac

coylemj wrote: »

Mathepac, you picked a post from Delancey off page 1 without reading the following posts in the thread. ...

No, in fairness I read the entire contents of yet another mind-numbingly boring thread about the same topic again and before losing the will to live, I posted the definitions above. The posts subsequent to Delancey's seemed to me to be discussing "driving other cars" and NOT "open driving" - check for yourself.

coylemj wrote: »

... I don't think anyone is too concered about whether the term 'open driving' refers to people driving your car or you driving other cars, it's not defined in the RTA, it isn't mentioned (specifically as a term) on insurance certificates and I'm sure it means different things to different insurance companies.

OP seemed to be concerned about it as that is the thread title " Open Drive Insurance Question" so it seemed important (to me at least) to define accurately for OP what "open driving" means once and for all before dying.

I wouldn't be too sure about some of the things your post seems sure about though.

I am of course willing to be guided by our knowledgeable mods ...

pa990

From my experience of dealing with insurance companies: everything is fine and everything is covered until you try and make a claim.

Get whatever you need clarified, in writing and in plain English.

Our man in Havana

+100000

Get anything they say in writing.

mathepac

pa990 wrote: »

... Get whatever you need clarified, in writing and in plain English.

To be fair to them they have improved since the days of "the party of the first part" type legalese lingo designed to make work for lawyers and drive claims costs through the roof.

Our man in Havana

You still can't trust the vultures as far as you can throw them a rotting carcass.

Anan1

Our man in Havana wrote: »

You still can't trust the vultures as far as you can throw them a rotting carcass.

?? You never should have. You pay for the cover detailed in your policy schedule, and that's what you get. It's hardly the ins cos fault that people seem to prefer guessing/assuming/starting a thread on the internet to actually checking what their policy covers.

Gophur

Delancey wrote: »

Forgive me for stating the bleeding obvious here but it is really important to remember that the vast majority of ' open drive ' policies require the car other than yours to have its own separate insurance policy.
In otherwords if your friend has just bought a Ford Focus and has not yet put insurance in place then you are NOT insured to drive it despite having an ' open drive ' policy.

Like I said , forgive me for highlighting something that many / most of you already know.

Can you explain the purpose of this so-called "other" insurance ?

You are saying, for me to have cover on driving other cars (which I have), there must be some phantom insurance policy in place, somewhere, under which nothing is covered?

So, if I am driving another car I have to produce someone else's policy, for my insurance to be valid?

If you look at a policy, the "insured", is the person, not the car.

You are scaremongering.

Vertakill

Gophur wrote: »

Can you explain the purpose of this so-called "other" insurance ?

You are saying, for me to have cover on driving other cars (which I have), there must be some phantom insurance policy in place, somewhere, under which nothing is covered?

So, if I am driving another car I have to produce someone else's policy, for my insurance to be valid?

If you look at a policy, the "insured", is the person, not the car.

You are scaremongering.

A lot of companies do actually specify an active/valid policy to be in place on the 'other' car that you're intending to drive.
There's only a select few that don't require the car to have a current policy or tax/nct.

Euripides_

Vertakill wrote: »

Gophur wrote: »

Can you explain the purpose of this so-called "other" insurance ?

You are saying, for me to have cover on driving other cars (which I have), there must be some phantom insurance policy in place, somewhere, under which nothing is covered?

So, if I am driving another car I have to produce someone else's policy, for my insurance to be valid?

If you look at a policy, the "insured", is the person, not the car.

You are scaremongering.

A lot of companies do actually specify an active/valid policy to be in place on the 'other' car that you're intending to drive.
There's only a select few that don't require the car to have a current policy or tax/nct.

Has anyone come across an engine size limit on driving other people's cars???

mathepac

sorry, going round in bleedin' circles, internet broke twice on me

Sparticous

can a person with a full licence but has a endorcement and is 25 drive on a person open drive policy

Anan1

Sparticous wrote: »

can a person with a full licence but has a endorcement and is 25 drive on a person open drive policy

Depends on the policy. Assume you're not covered until you're 100% certain that you are.

Our man in Havana

If the cert says your covered that's good enough for the law.

Sparticous

does anybody have a policy that says a person with a endorcement cant drive on it

hondasam

Sparticous wrote: »

can a person with a full licence but has a endorcement and is 25 drive on a person open drive policy

Depends on the policy, mine is anyone not under the age of 30 and not over the age of 70 providing they have a full lic and are not disqualified.

Sparticous

hondasam wrote: »

Depends on the policy, mine is anyone not under the age of 30 and not over the age of 70 providing they have a full lic and are not disqualified.

so basically if someone was 30 and has a full licence with a endorcement the can drive on your policy

Alanstrainor

Sparticous wrote: »

so basically if someone was 30 and has a full licence with a endorcement the can drive on your policy

Man...just get whoever has the policy to ring their insurance company and ask.

No matter what anyone says on here, even if the policy appeared to be exactly the same, you won't know for certain until you ask, and even get it on paper that you can drive.