So, what you playing at the mo? Retro Edition

Inviere

o1s1n wrote: »

Who knows! For all Perry's arrogance, I still feel there's an honesty to it and really like the guy as a result of that. Dominik Diamond I thought was great back in the day, but on rewatches comes across as a bit of a prick.

I'm exactly the same, I felt bad for Perry at times watching the show, & never really found the infamous Christmas segment funny (the obvious gloating by Diamond showed there was more going on there.) I still like Diamond too, his wit and delivery were synonymous with the 'golden-era' of gaming for me. Whatever their beef was, was a shame, as they were both brilliant at that they did.

Retr0gamer

I kind of get the feeling Perry was a little bit arrogant and Diamond wound him up about it a lot. Can kind of see Perry as being someone that couldn't take a slagging and Diamond probably doubled down on it because of the reaction he was getting. Think there's two of them in it. Perry probably needed to lighten up and Diamond probably should have been more professional and worked with him more.

Inviere

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I kind of get the feeling Perry was a little bit arrogant and Diamond wound him up about it a lot. Can kind of see Perry as being someone that couldn't take a slagging and Diamond probably doubled down on it because of the reaction he was getting. Think there's two of them in it. Perry probably needed to lighten up and Diamond probably should have been more professional and worked with him more.

I'd say that's pretty much the jist of it all right, definitely what the conclusion is when you read a bit more about it.

Colonel Panic

I'm playing through Ocarina of Time at the moment - The 3DS port from 2011 as opposed to the original.

I've just finished the Water Temple which definitely benefits from UI updates for toggling the Iron Boots and visual updates which lead to each water level switch - Although the layout remains confusing.

I actually found the Forest and Fire Temples more frustrating - That Zelda issue of missing a key way back at the start and having to backtrack.

The game remains great - this is the first time I've played through it properly since that Christmas in 1998. I think I'll play Majora's Mask next. I've never played it beyond the intro on any platform. I own so many different versions of it.

I might switch platform to play it despite the quality of life updates in the 3DS version as the size of the console is giving me serious RSI in my thumb! Took me a few weeks to recover from replaying Super Mario 3D Land last month!

Mr.Saturn

I'm still surprised Hyrule Field survived as-is in the 3DS remaster of OoT. Nothing quite shows the game's age as having to zig-zag across a 20+ year-old idea of what vast gaming space looks like - it makes the earlier portions of the game especially tedious to revisit.

The Nal

Colonel Panic wrote: »

I'm playing through Ocarina of Time at the moment - The 3DS port from 2011 as opposed to the original.

I've just finished the Water Temple which definitely benefits from UI updates for toggling the Iron Boots and visual updates which lead to each water level switch - Although the layout remains confusing.

I actually found the Forest and Fire Temples more frustrating - That Zelda issue of missing a key way back at the start and having to backtrack.

The game remains great - this is the first time I've played through it properly since that Christmas in 1998. I think I'll play Majora's Mask next. I've never played it beyond the intro on any platform. I own so many different versions of it.

I might switch platform to play it despite the quality of life updates in the 3DS version as the size of the console is giving me serious RSI in my thumb! Took me a few weeks to recover from replaying Super Mario 3D Land last month!

Ive played Ocarina maybe 20 times through over the years. And the Water Temple is still a pain in the arse! I love the Fire Temple. The Shadow Temple though is maybe my favourite dungeon in any game ever.

I was similar with Majora's Mask. Played it for an hour in 2000 and didnt play it until a few years ago. Its a masterpiece.

Retr0gamer

The Water Temple I file beside the likes of the NES contra games and Lion King in that for all of them I'm baffled by how the internet seems to think these games are so difficult. The Water temple didn't stand out as particularly difficult in my first Ocarina playthrough.

o1s1n

Yeah I'd be similar with The Water Temple too. I played OOT on the 3DS a few years back when it was rereleased and didn't think anything of it at the time, until I read a few reviews after and everyone was going on about how difficult that level is. I don't remember it being notably difficult on my first playthrough when the game was originally released.

I think there's a bit of a collective consciousness thing, once everyone starts to say something is difficult, people start to automatically perceive it as such. You then go into the level thinking it's hard and start making stupid mistakes.

I actually had an interesting thing happen the other day. Was playing through Aladdin on the Megadrive and was on 'The Escape' level.

On my first attempt I got right to the last boulder at the end of the level, just before you jump on the carpet and died. Didn't really think anything of it.

Second attempt I got to the same point, so decided to have a quick look online to see what the story is with that boulder's movement as it was annoying me.

The moment I google it, I start seeing results like:

'Aladdin - The Escape - AKA The Level Where everyone dies!' etc etc

After seeing that and reading a few notes on how 'insanely difficult!!!' the level is, I couldn't for the life of me get 1/3 of the way through. Absolutely nowhere near where I'd gotten before. My brain was suddenly perceiving everything as far more difficult and with that came a lack of fluidity of movement and far more hesitation. It was bizarre.

The Nal

o1s1n wrote: »

Yeah I'd be similar with The Water Temple too. I played OOT on the 3DS a few years back when it was rereleased and didn't think anything of it at the time, until I read a few reviews after and everyone was going on about how difficult that level is. I don't remember it being notably difficult on my first playthrough when the game was originally released.

It was difficult if you took a wrong turn at the wrong time or changed the water level at the wrong time which were easily done. That could lead to an endless maze (days) of not being able to get back on track. And the constant changing of boots was a pain. A shame really because its genius in its design.

sprucemoose

metal gear 2 at the moment. have played mgs so much i had to give the older msx games a go finally

Retr0gamer

o1s1n wrote: »

Yeah I'd be similar with The Water Temple too. I played OOT on the 3DS a few years back when it was rereleased and didn't think anything of it at the time, until I read a few reviews after and everyone was going on about how difficult that level is. I don't remember it being notably difficult on my first playthrough when the game was originally released.

I think there's a bit of a collective consciousness thing, once everyone starts to say something is difficult, people start to automatically perceive it as such. You then go into the level thinking it's hard and start making stupid mistakes.

I actually had an interesting thing happen the other day. Was playing through Aladdin on the Megadrive and was on 'The Escape' level.

On my first attempt I got right to the last boulder at the end of the level, just before you jump on the carpet and died. Didn't really think anything of it.

Second attempt I got to the same point, so decided to have a quick look online to see what the story is with that boulder's movement as it was annoying me.

The moment I google it, I start seeing results like:

'Aladdin - The Escape - AKA The Level Where everyone dies!' etc etc

After seeing that and reading a few notes on how 'insanely difficult!!!' the level is, I couldn't for the life of me get 1/3 of the way through. Absolutely nowhere near where I'd gotten before. My brain was suddenly perceiving everything as far more difficult and with that came a lack of fluidity of movement and far more hesitation. It was bizarre.

That level isn't hard either. It's just bull**** rote memorisation.

And the SNES game is better. Fight me.

o1s1n

The Nal wrote: »

It was difficult if you took a wrong turn at the wrong time or changed the water level at the wrong time which were easily done. That could lead to an endless maze (days) of not being able to get back on track. And the constant changing of boots was a pain. A shame really because its genius in its design.

I might have just gotten lucky with how I went through so! On the flip side I always found Jabu Jabu's belly really annoying. I think I've actually quit the game a couple of times at that stage early on.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

That level isn't hard either. It's just bull**** rote memorisation.

And the SNES game is better. Fight me.

100%, and it's not even difficult without the memorization as I almost finished it on my first go.

Just once I was told it was hard my brain went '****, this must be hard!' and I started being stupid.

Sorry, as much as I'd love to go head to head with you, I completely agree the Snes version is better

I was actually playing an enhanced Rom hack of the Megadrive one too. I'm not familar enough with the game to know what the changes are, but apparently it does a really good job improving the physics and visuals.

Retr0gamer

My main problem with those Dave Perry games and most Euro/US developed games from the time is the 'Airplane hangar' level design. The actually movement is usually fine. It's just that they seem to want to use every inch of space in the level so create these massive stages filled with junk rather than making a compelling level to play.

o1s1n

Hah, I've never heard it referred to as that but it's spot on, Earthworm Jim and Cool Spot are exactly the same - that sense you're really just moving around in one big rectangular space.

CiDeRmAn

Sonic CD not guilty of same, just fill the space with stuff with no attention paid to making a compelling level?

Retr0gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Sonic CD not guilty of same, just fill the space with stuff with no attention paid to making a compelling level?

Yep. Also agree it lines up with Sonic CD.

I've only heard the term once on retronauts and it just fit so well that I've been using it since. Basically just take a massive level and throw as much **** into it as possible with no regard to how challenging it is or how it flows and call it a day.

Colonel Panic

Finished Ocarina of Time just now. The Shadow Temple was definitely the best but overall I really enjoyed it. I didn't come close to getting all the hearts and stuff though!

So next, either Majora's Mask 3D or Windwaker HD.

Gamer Bhoy 89

Does Resident Evil 4 count as "Retro" nowadays? Because that's what I'm sunk into right now, and when I say retro, I am more-so leaning focus onto its controls. Granted it's deliberate, but I reckon it wouldn't fly if it was a new I.P. made in the 2010s and beyond. I love it, but I'm used to it.

I came off of playing Resident Evil 3 (2020) and decided to dive straight into RE4. It was absolutely jarring to go back to that control scheme. It didn't take long for me to get "back into the groove" (as it were), but newcomers will hate it if they didn't grow up on it.

o1s1n

Played through RE4 myself there again a few months ago, still an amazing game alright, the whole thing is just so tight and well put together.

I actually started RE1 Remake there recently and really enjoying that too.

I don't get the hate on the tank controls. Grew up with them so they're second nature, but they really do add to the tension in the game. They're not bad, they're just different.

People have just gotten way too used to a very standardised control scheme across most games. I find older gamers are far more 'multi-lingual' for no use of a better term when it comes to controls types, we just grew up with so many different ones.

Inviere

o1s1n wrote: »

Played through RE4 myself there again a few months ago, still an amazing game alright, the whole thing is just so tight and well put together.

I actually started RE1 Remake there recently and really enjoying that too.

I don't get the hate on the tank controls. Grew up with them so they're second nature, but they really do add to the tension in the game. They're not bad, they're just different.

People have just gotten way too used to a very standardised control scheme across most games. I find older gamers are far more 'multi-lingual' for no use of a better term when it comes to controls types, we just grew up with so many different ones.

When I played REmake on Steam I opted for the modern control system, & it actually made transitioning into RE2 a lot harder for me. I had to relearn the controls from scratch, & while it took some time, I did adapt to the tank controls. I said to myself to cop on, & just think of it as Rock n Roll racing....it did the job

Gamer Bhoy 89

o1s1n wrote: »

Played through RE4 myself there again a few months ago, still an amazing game alright, the whole thing is just so tight and well put together.

I actually started RE1 Remake there recently and really enjoying that too.

I don't get the hate on the tank controls. Grew up with them so they're second nature, but they really do add to the tension in the game. They're not bad, they're just different.

People have just gotten way too used to a very standardised control scheme across most games. I find older gamers are far more 'multi-lingual' for no use of a better term when it comes to controls types, we just grew up with so many different ones.

I think the controls for RE4/5 are absolutely fine. I think Capcom wanted to give us a behind-the-shoulder perspective but still make it feel like the ones that came before it. I'm the probable monster that plays the REmake with the classic control scheme.

Main reason is; playing it with the new scheme confuses me when it shifts from scene to scene, one minute I'm holding up to run away from the camera, then the scene shifts and I'm running towards the camera, still holding 'up'. Once I let go, 'up' no longer does the same thing. I have to hold the analog stick 'down', towards the camera, if I want to continue in the same direction. With tank controls I don't need to worry about that. Just hold up, and I'm good.

On the topic of REmake..... I've never actually beaten it, nor have I beaten the original trilogy, nor 0. That's definitely a list of games I need to get into. I've certainly played them, and I've played a chunk of REmake, but never stuck to it.

barryribs

Gamer Bhoy 89 wrote: »

I think the controls for RE4/5 are absolutely fine. I think Capcom wanted to give us a behind-the-shoulder perspective but still make it feel like the ones that came before it. I'm the probable monster that plays the REmake with the classic control scheme.

Main reason is; playing it with the new scheme confuses me when it shifts from scene to scene, one minute I'm holding up to run away from the camera, then the scene shifts and I'm running towards the camera, still holding 'up'. Once I let go, 'up' no longer does the same thing. I have to hold the analog stick 'down', towards the camera, if I want to continue in the same direction. With tank controls I don't need to worry about that. Just hold up, and I'm good.

On the topic of REmake..... I've never actually beaten it, nor have I beaten the original trilogy, nor 0. That's definitely a list of games I need to get into. I've certainly played them, and I've played a chunk of REmake, but never stuck to it.

I may be in the minority, but I've always played with tank controls, never had an issue with them on the originals or REmake. I don't get how so many people have problems with them, particularly those who would have experienced them first time round.


I finished the remaster of REmake recently and I did notice that all the textures look great and then you get to a cutscene and its pixelated almost beyond recognition, I guess as a result of the upscaling. Particularly when you leave the mansion and your dropping the water in the pond before you go to the graveyard. I think I read somewhere that Capcom had all the assets in high res apart from the cut scenes

Retr0gamer

I'm totally fine with tank controls and RE4 controls. Not everything has to be super responsive and I feel the games are built around their controls.

I see it as the same design philosophy as ghouls n ghosts or bionic commando. In fact the designer of gng and bionic commando games work as the designer of the first resident evil. Capcom have a history of making games with control schemes that force the play to commit to actions. Gng you have no control of your jump when in the air so each jump is a commitment from the player they can't get out of. Same with the swinging in bionic commando. Reseident evil is the same were the direction you go in is a commitment as it's tough to turn out of. RE4 as well as when you aim you can't move. I found the modern controls in remake conpletely ruin the game and make it a cakewalk.

You see these design philosophy in a lot of Capcom games. Hell street fighter 2 and the genre it birthed is all about this.

o1s1n

Inviere wrote: »

When I played REmake on Steam I opted for the modern control system, & it actually made transitioning into RE2 a lot harder for me. I had to relearn the controls from scratch, & while it took some time, I did adapt to the tank controls. I said to myself to cop on, & just think of it as Rock n Roll racing....it did the job

Is RE2 remake locked to tank controls? I haven't actually played that yet! Loved that game when it came out, but I haven't gone near it in over 10 years and am almost afraid to at this stage :eek:

Gamer Bhoy 89 wrote: »

Main reason is; playing it with the new scheme confuses me when it shifts from scene to scene, one minute I'm holding up to run away from the camera, then the scene shifts and I'm running towards the camera, still holding 'up'. Once I let go, 'up' no longer does the same thing. I have to hold the analog stick 'down', towards the camera, if I want to continue in the same direction. With tank controls I don't need to worry about that. Just hold up, and I'm good.

Yep! That's the genius of tank controls really - I wonder what the last big game to use tank controls as it's main control scheme was?

Retr0gamer

Prepare to have your mind blown but every third person shooter uses tank controls. The camera is just always behind the charater.

o1s1n

Inviere

o1s1n wrote: »

Is RE2 remake locked to tank controls? I haven't actually played that yet! Loved that game when it came out, but I haven't gone near it in over 10 years and am almost afraid to at this stage :eek:

It got the over-the-shoulder treatment

Gamer Bhoy 89

I'm taking a break from RE4. Píssing me off now lol I forgot how much I hated the Castle chapter.

Mr.Saturn

Gamer Bhoy 89 wrote: »

I'm taking a break from RE4. Píssing me off now lol I forgot how much I hated the Castle chapter.

Which bit of the castle is getting on your nerves?

Gamer Bhoy 89

Mr.Saturn wrote: »

Which bit of the castle is getting on your nerves?

The Novistadores in the sewers. My reaction time is nothing like it used to be and they keep jumping all over the place. I hate their acid-vomit maneuver - takes way too much health off me.