So, what you playing at the mo? Retro Edition

Im playing through super mario world at the moment, as I fancied some mario goodness. It's still as good as ever, and I'd forgotten how good the music in particular is in certain parts. The soundtrack when you're in a castle is just brilliant. Orchestral, synthetic, and brilliantly eerie. Like the work of some strange Japanese 16 bit Mozart-esque genius.

I do remember thinking on my first play through of it years ago that it wasn't quite as good as mario 3 (still my fave mario and contender for my fave game of all time full stop). I think I'd probably still stand by that, having played it again this evening, although it is an amazing game. I do remember being disappointed however, when I figured out that the "96 levels" that Nintendo had been advertising were actually just 96 exits, and you had to re-play through several of the levels to find the "hidden" second exits. It was probably my earliest memory of fraudulent advertising in video games

Not quite his best adventure, but a damn good one all the same...

CiDeRmAn

I finally unwrapped Driver SF last night.
Too my surprise it wasn't about being a taxi driver in Belfast in the 1980's. no, the SF stood for San Francisco!

But it seems to be a great game, I was awake til 2:30am playing it so it must have been good!

San Fran seems very unpopulated with cars though, rather bare...
Perhaps this is an area where the next gen can step in and actually have a more realistically filled urban landscape.
Of course the downside is it'll take 15 mins to get anywhere in the game, so it'll be like playing the missions on GTAIV again!

CiDeRmAn

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I finally unwrapped Driver SF last night....Perhaps this is an area where the next gen can step in and actually have a more realistically filled urban landscape.

That wasn't a bad game at all. Good silly fun. The "shift" mechanic is completely contrived, but works very well to keep things interesting.

The city looks nothing like the actual san francisco though, it's a more stylised, cartoony version and less than 100% geographically accurate.

Interesting point about how the next gen could recreate existing urban spaces better. Mediocre gameplay aside, i thought GTAIV did a great take on a living, breathing city, whereas the best i've seen in terms of geographical accuracy was some of the city circuits on some racing games like project gotham racing etc, but they were all "on rails" more or less and had no atmosphere. I liked "the getaway" on the last gen of consoles too, i seem to remember it recreating Saff London quite well, but again, it was lacking in atmosphere, or signs of life.

It would be really interesting to see a properly geographically correct rendering of New York or London or LA with really socially accurate depictions of life as it is in the various parts of it, with the AI obeying patterns like rush hour bustle, dole day queues, friday night drunken crowds, etc...

CiDeRmAn

The Getaway and it's sequel was quite battered on release, but I played and finished the first one, felt more like Minder to me than Lock,Stock!
But, the driving at least was fun, where the on foot sections nearly broke the game they were so bad, not Rebel Strike bad but lousy never the less.
Driver Parallel Lines is probably the most underrated game of the genre from the last gen, coming so late to the party didn't help things, having that polished turd as a forebear in the series didn't help either.
I don't think I have it for the PS2, I have played on the Wii though and the inclusion of two time periods and a strong single player campaign is good news, the fact that the cops in it are complete b@stards is unfortunate, especially when you are in a mission, make a driving error and then are stuck trying to lose them for the next ten minutes!

Retr0gamer

Parallel Lines can be picked up for peanuts on PC now. Not my cup of tea at all. I don't like sandbox games and parallel lines is nowhere even close to the best of them.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I don't like sandbox games...

That's an interesting development in gaming lately, ie: people not liking sandbox games. Has the genre become stale?

After GTAIII we had a decade or so of sanbox everything to the point where a format which was fresh and exciting became generic for the most part. Even the pinnacle of the series, GTA, has more or less descended into a "drive here, fetch X/kill Y, drive there, avoid cops over and over again" exercise. Vice city was tight, compact, funny, more or less unique, and a load of fun, San andreas had story and character development, and was fun, but had a lot of boring empty spaces in it as a result of being too grand an undertaking. GTAIV's city was excellent, but the gameplay was bland and repetitive, even derivative by the time it came out (which is ironic for the franchise which single handedly created the open world genre).

I've always thought that rockstar would be far better off licensing their sandbox cities out to other devs to develop games for. Imagine a racing game with proper racing mechanics, or a proper FPS with good controls set in Liberty city. That approach could end up reinvigorating the genre. As it is, it doesn't hold much interest for me anymore. I like my gameplay tight and focused. I'm not even sure i'll be picking up GTA5 unless the reviews say it really is something special.

Andrew76

Deleted User wrote: »

That's an interesting development in gaming lately, ie: people not liking sandbox games. Has the genre become stale?

After GTAIII we had a decade or so of sanbox everything to the point where a format which was fresh and exciting became generic for the most part. Even the pinnacle of the series, GTA, has more or less descended into a "drive here, fetch X/kill Y, drive there, avoid cops over and over again" exercise. Vice city was tight, compact, funny, more or less unique, and a load of fun, San andreas had story and character development, and was fun, but had a lot of boring empty spaces in it as a result of being too grand an undertaking. GTAIV's city was excellent, but the gameplay was bland and repetitive, even derivative by the time it came out (which is ironic for the franchise which single handedly created the open world genre).

I've always thought that rockstar would be far better off licensing their sandbox cities out to other devs to develop games for. Imagine a racing game with proper racing mechanics, or a proper FPS with good controls set in Liberty city. That approach could end up reinvigorating the genre. As it is, it doesn't hold much interest for me anymore. I like my gameplay tight and focused. I'm not even sure i'll be picking up GTA5 unless the reviews say it really is something special.

DayZ already does the FPS in a sandbox world, and it's brilliant.

The last GTA that was fun for me was Vice City, incredible soundtrack too.

Retr0gamer

I like my gameplay tight and focused, probably a hang over from the 16-bit console days. However when a game promises freedom I don't like to have constraints placed on that freedom. I really loved GTA 3 despite the gameplay being so janky because there weren't constraints placed on the player in how to beat missions. You could always find some crazy way around it like in one when you chased after a suspect you could block the road off with cars and screw with the AI. Try it in the later GTA games and initiating the mission reset the game world and even worse, in GTA 4 the world becomes scripted.

I think GTA 4 totally failed for me as a sandbox game because it was trying to tell a story, it hemmed the player in and the missions might as well have been in a CoD game with how scripted they became. GTA was never about story, it was always terrible but it was knowingly so and the designers had fun with it because they knew they couldn't control the world and crazy stuff would happen. You had a story that fit the crazy random nature of the world.

It's probably why I got so addicted to Minecraft since it's a true sandbox whereas I'm bored silly of sandbox games trying to force me force me to do what the designers want, what's the point having a sandbox then?

richymcdermott

i never forget the time playing san andreas and doing bicycle tricks and as i was just about to leave an airplane crashes into a building and explodes.

may be the funniest thing i ever seen :pac:

Steve X2

Just got "Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams" so playing that at the moment.
It looks quite nice and so far plays well.

CiDeRmAn

The absolute worst things about GTA4 were connected tbh.
1: The Commute, when, you start a mission at someones apartment but then have to drive 10 minutes to the mission location. A real pain in the backside.

2: The poor choice of mission check points, when you frak up the mission and you find yourself back at the start again, not at the mission location, oh no, back at the fools apartment where he gives you the same information all over again, then you have to commute to the mission location!

Aside from that the game was grand, Retr0, you can't have it every way.
Do you want a strong story line? Then it's going to have linear story telling.
You want something more open, then the story is going to take a hit.
Nothing worse then being told "not enough experience to go to the next main story mission, off you jolly well go and grind the ass out of side quests until we call you back", and you know, the same thing happened in Oblivion, in GTAIII and now, in Driver SF.

At least in GTAIV, you got the main missions laid out, there was often multiple choices of what to do next, but, yes, you were expected to complete them all eventually.
No, it still is a pretty essential game, only the infernal commute stops me from finishing it.

johnny_ultimate

I just loved driving around the Liberty City of GTAIV. Whatever about everything else, there was just something endlessly rewarding about exploring such a detailed, vibrant city. Ballad of Gay Tony improved things immeasurably by actively encouraging you to jump off the buildings without penalty :P

I'm hoping GTAV has learned from the mistakes of its predecessor, and the countless improvements of Red Dead Redemption (the narrative-led sandbox game).

CiDeRmAn

Red Dead Redemption, well said Mr U, that really was the cats PJs.
All my favourite western movies and I got to be in them, from High Noon to The Wild Bunch, they all had a role in there somewhere, saving the livestock from a barn aflame, shooting dead a cur that owes you money, the music, probably the best soundtrack I have heard in a long time.
And all that forgets the zombie apocalypse of The Undead Nightmare, which I have yet to play despite owning it, a present to myself when I judge myself worthy!

Retr0gamer

I thought the story they forced on you was dire. In the old GTA games the shooting sections were god awful but you could put up with it because the sandbox made up for it. In GTA4 the shooting was improved but still god awful and scripted so there was only one way to beat the mission completely invalidating the reason for the sandbox. Even the driving missions were ruined by scripting them as well, something that was creeping in even as far back as Vice City which had a few awful scripted driving sections.

It was just a dull game with dull main missions and a sandbox that no fun to mess around in completely negating the reason for having a sandbox. In previous games I could spend hours just pissing about in the cities, in GTA4 they managed to make that boring as well.

Retr0gamer

I found the GTAIV episodes a lot better, they were silly and allowed you to have fun with the world.

I actually much prefer the Rockstar games that aren't made by the Scottish team. I found Red Dead Redemption, the Warriors and my favourite of their output, Bully to be far better than the GTA games.

johnny_ultimate

Bully was great. Any game that allows you to hop in your go-kart, drive through the seasonal streets and check out the local carnival is A-OK in my book.

If there's one thing to be said for GTA, it's that the basic formula has been applied to several diverse settings with consistently excellent results. At least two of which have been better than GTA itself!

o1s1n

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I'm hoping GTAV has learned from the mistakes of its predecessor, and the countless improvements of Red Dead Redemption (the narrative-led sandbox game).

Thing about Red Dead Redemption - it was so narrative-led, that by the time I decided to take a break from it and go a bit mad/do some side missions etc, the game was over!

I know you can continue on after the end and finish everything off, but once a game gets to this point I tend to put it down.

CiDeRmAn

Played more of Driver today, it's all quite contrived and silly but lots of fun. Like Portal with cars and trucks!
No motorbikes that I can see and a lot of Alfa Romeo cars for American streets!

johnny_ultimate

Only problem with Driver: San Fran is when you realise 75% of missions can be completed by simply possessing oncoming traffic and performing kamikaze runs on the cars you need to stop.

Lots of fun though. Got around halfway through - to a mission when things started getting very interesting, actually. Must go back to it soon.

Mr.Saturn

I think it speaks well to Red Dead Redemption that the only fault I can find with it is that its assumption (super-major, massive, ubertacluar spoilers)

that the only way a sinner-man can redeem himself is by dying

.

What's worse, even that makes complete sense.

CiDeRmAn

It's not a flaw but rather an appreciated respect for the American Old West mythos.
Fingers crossed that we see another story from that time.

johnny_ultimate

Making an exception on my informal "no zombie spin-offs" rule and playing Yakuza Dead Souls. I have a weakness for the series despite all its eccentricities - just love walking around a small sandbox Tokyo filled with detail, mini-games and distraction. This is basically a full Yakuza game just filled with zombie genocide for whatever reason :pac: You can still go golfing, play bowling, hit up the arcade - but then you can head off and go hunting through zombie town. The combat is hardly the best gaming has to offer, but its fun.

I am looking forward to the proper sequel, whenever it comes out. While Dead Souls has a much more humourous story and lighthearted tone, the basic game, engine and setting are still the same as Yakuza 3 (I skipped four), albeit with a few new mini-games and zombies. An enjoyable spin-off, though.

Stoopid chocolate land. World 6 in super mario world is a right hoor :-(

If it wasn't so easy to amass 99 lives in pretty much every mario game I'd have been knackered by now. Some of those auto scrolling castle levels with the big crunchie looking things that squash you are properly tricky.

o1s1n

Spent the evening today playing Hotline Miami - is it just me or does it feel like an 8 bit videogame version of Drive? (which isn't a bad thing at all!)

My main difficulty at the moment is I can't find my mouse, so have to play it with a trackpad. Proving to be quite the challange! Still, heaps of fun. Had that 'just one more go' thing every time you die, similar to Super Meat Boy.

pdbhp

Playing Megaman Extreme on Gameboy, suprisingly difficult later on in tha game, tis really testing my patience.

Also playing Bubble Ghost on Gameboy great game.

Retr0gamer

Started chrono trigger DS. Wonderful conversion and the game is still one of the best examples of the RPG genre. It's a joy to play.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Started chrono trigger DS. Wonderful conversion and the game is still one of the best examples of the RPG genre. It's a joy to play.

Am starting the SNES version shortly. Am looking forward to it. Waiting for my USB snes pad to be delivered first.

johnny_ultimate

I have to finish the DS version actually, keep meaning to. Played a lot of it on extended Shinaknsen journeys one summer in Nippon, but never actually got to the end. Probably will have to start again at this point, although I always get distracted by the carnival games at the start. That Gato intro music!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1VYMQEVOpk

Retr0gamer

Messing around with a few PS1 games last night.

Overblood 2, well what did I expect. Really awful stuff. Framerate is pathetic as well, made worse by the fact that it's a PAL version.

Megaman Legends. Superb Ocarina of Time type game that actually came out before Ocarina of Time. Will have to play this one more.

Crash Bandicoot 2. Oh dear. Time has not been kind to the crash bandicoot games. Looks great but the game play is fairly stinky.

CiDeRmAn

The third one of the Crash games was pretty good looking, lots of crappy 3D jumping, necessitating restarts and checkpoints ago-go, bugger!
I guess, the other options at that time for 3D platforming were the Rare titles on the N64, after Ninty did Mario 64, OoT and MM and decided they'd covered the subject comprehensively enough, so we got Banjo, Jet Set and Conker, not as good as Mario 64 but a damn sight better than the Crash titles.