Legal Highs

TedB · 16-07-2009 10:20am #1

I've heard a lot about these so called 'legal highs' in 'headshops' and I have to be honest, I was very skeptical.

1) There's being no research on any of these brands - Pulse, Spice etc. The party pills are particularly dangerous - they have 20 years + research on MDMA, nothing on most of these brands. I don't even think any of them are safety controlled.

AND they are only legal on a technicality. In that, we haven't gotten round to banning these particular substances just yet.

2) I like a bit of weed (Smoke maybe 5 or 6 times a year. Relaxing and a very nice buzz when with a couple of mates enjoying a few tins) So I think to myself - if I can get weed, why the hell would I smoke this crap?

Last night me and a friend tried out the 'Pulse' stuff. Went into a head shop, bought two five euro bags and smoked the balls off it. One five euro bag is the equivilent of a 20 euro bag of weed. Honestly, the stuff blew me away. As strong as weed - if not stronger, considering the quantity we took.

It sets your heartrate mad and it tastes like absolute dung, but it does give you a very very distinct 'high' and a great stoney buss for ages. It seems to be a cocktail of herbs thrown together.

Anyways, what is the story with these legal highs? I can testify that it is as good if not better than the illegal stuff and its so readily available - yet its not the same as weed at all - we don't really know what the long term effects of this stuff is - we know quite a bit about the effects of weed.

I'm not in favour of drugs legalisation, but I am in favour of decriminalising the stuff. It is, after all, a victimless crime (In that the only victim is me, the adult who occasionaly likes to dabble in the odd novelty) So don't try and make this into a drugs legalisation debate.

TheZohanS · 16-07-2009 10:24am

TedB wrote: »

It sets your heartrate mad and it tastes like absolute dung

TedB wrote: »

I can testify that it is as good if not better than the illegal stuff and its so readily available

Doesn't sound better to me.

Irishcrx · 16-07-2009 10:26am

Tryed some of these before I didn't really find them as good as the real thing, taste threw me off alot. I don't know why they are legal probably because they are made of legal subatances spices and herbs and the rest and could probably be made at home if you knew what was in them.

partyguinness · 16-07-2009 10:27am

Life.....:D

Kiera · 16-07-2009 10:30am

Done.to.death.

Dave! · 16-07-2009 10:31am

Ever been in love, OP? Now there's a legal high to tell your friends about!

seamus · 16-07-2009 10:32am

TedB wrote: »

It seems to be a cocktail of herbs thrown together.

But you don't otherwise know? And you're consuming it?
Whatever about the danger of illegal narcotics, at least you can do some research before you take it and make the best informed decision on whether to take it.

With these yokes, you just have some undereducated mop head handing you a bag of it and telling you that it's great. You haven't a fncking clue what risks you're taking. Insanity.

DarkJager · 16-07-2009 10:33am

1: Smoke and Pulse are very like weed yes - probably most worthwhile purchase you can make in a head shop.
2: Stay away from cocaine imitators such as "Snow" - it will keep you awake for 2 -3 days straight.
3: The pills aren't worth a ****, so don't waste your time.

TedB · 16-07-2009 10:47am

seamus wrote: »

But you don't otherwise know? And you're consuming it?
Whatever about the danger of illegal narcotics, at least you can do some research before you take it and make the best informed decision on whether to take it.

With these yokes, you just have some undereducated mop head handing you a bag of it and telling you that it's great. You haven't a fncking clue what risks you're taking. Insanity.

Em, excuse me, where the hell do you think you're getting off? I'm not some impressionable stone head. I do this kind of thing max 5-6 times a year. Get off yer high horse.

DarkJager · 16-07-2009 10:49am

Dave! wrote: »

Ever been in love, OP? Now there's a legal high to tell your friends about!

Overrated and overpriced

TheZohanS · 16-07-2009 10:53am

DarkJager wrote: »

Overrated and overpriced

And the worst comedown out of all the highs.

seamus · 16-07-2009 10:56am

TedB wrote: »

I do this kind of thing max 5-6 times a year.

Ah yes, doing it more often makes it safe.

TedB · 16-07-2009 10:59am

seamus wrote: »

Ah yes, doing it more often makes it safe.

I suppose you don't drink, or enjoy the odd cigarette? Hell, I'm sure you don't even eat anything that has being fried.

I repeat - get off yer high horse.

Degsy · 16-07-2009 11:03am

DarkJager wrote: »

2: Stay away from cocaine imitators such as "Snow" - it will keep you awake for 2 -3 days straight.

With a hideous,hideous comedown..paranoia,nausea,depression and an inability to think.
Rotten.

DarkJager · 16-07-2009 11:07am

Degsy wrote: »

With a hideous,hideous comedown..paranoia,nausea,depression and an inability to think.
Rotten.

Assume you tried it as well then Degsy? It really is a ****ing nightmare once you come down off it. Being unable to sleep at all makes things so much worse, you have no option but to suffer through it

Terry · 16-07-2009 11:09am

TedB wrote: »

I suppose you don't drink, or enjoy the odd cigarette? Hell, I'm sure you don't even eat anything that has being fried.

I repeat - get off yer high horse.

You still do it though, don't you?

StopWhispering · 16-07-2009 11:10am

Up until just before WWII, cocaine and heroin were sold in everyday household products such as medicines and teas. People copped on to their massively addictive effects, they were made illegal/put into moderation.
http://www.pharmacytechs.net/blog/old-school-medicine-ads

MDMA was legal before 1985 and was used by pshychanalysts to treat depression and lethargy. People copped on and it was made illegal.
http://www.dancesafe.org/documents/druginfo/ecstasy.php

Marijuana was made illegal in Ireland in 1912 before people copped on.
http://www.wwmmireland.blogspot.com/

Legal highs will be made illegal also. There is little or no research put into its short or long term side effects. This makes them dangerous.

TedB · 16-07-2009 11:10am

Terry wrote: »

You still do it though, don't you?

Big f-cking deal.

Africa · 16-07-2009 11:16am

I dunno, i enjoy the ol spliff here and there, used to be mad into it. But this stuff i tried (XXX and Pulse) was magic. Seriously got you high, and its a much cleaner feeling smoke than the illegal stuff. Wore off a lot quicker as well, so if you just wanted it for like a half hour or an hour, you are grand after that, no 'stoneover'.

And cheaper. Much cheaper.

But yes, there must be something dodgy in them. Im sure they will find something in it that should be deemed illegal. but for now, im gonna eat my burgers, drink my pints, climb up big heights and smoke a bit.

kavoweb · 16-07-2009 11:17am

new in town here guys but have had experience of this topic,from both sides..... it seems to be a perpetual football on forums.

Powerhouse · 16-07-2009 11:17am

TedB wrote: »

I'm not in favour of drugs legalisation, but I am in favour of decriminalising the stuff. It is, after all, a victimless crime (In that the only victim is me, the adult who occasionaly likes to dabble in the odd novelty) So don't try and make this into a drugs legalisation debate.

You are the one who is making it into a drugs legalisation debate.

Just two things:

1) there is no such thing as a victimless crime. Only those too dumb to think it through.

2) There is no practical difference between decriminalising and legalising drugs - both serve to make it easier for criminals to operate.

StopWhispering · 16-07-2009 11:19am

Powerhouse wrote: »

You are the one who is making it into a drugs legalisation debate.

Just two things:

1) there is no such thing as a victimless crime. Only those too dumb to think it through.

2) There is no practical difference between decriminalising and legalising drugs - both serve to make it easier for criminals to operate.

Seconded.

DarkJager · 16-07-2009 11:21am

Africa wrote: »

I dunno, i enjoy the ol spliff here and there, used to be mad into it. But this stuff i tried (XXX and Pulse) was magic. Seriously got you high, and its a much cleaner feeling smoke than the illegal stuff. Wore off a lot quicker as well, so if you just wanted it for like a half hour or an hour, you are grand after that, no 'stoneover'.

And cheaper. Much cheaper.

But yes, there must be something dodgy in them. Im sure they will find something in it that should be deemed illegal. but for now, im gonna eat my burgers, drink my pints, climb up big heights and smoke a bit.

The only dodgy smoke product so far is the "Spice Gold". Supposedly has a number of syntethic cannaboids in it. The others like Pulse and Smoke simply use concentrates from plants which are known to have pscyhoactive properties. Thats why they are so potent.

ScumLord · 16-07-2009 11:25am

Spice and all the other weed substitutes are MUCK! Pure and utter horse dung! Anyone who thinks there better than weed should be shot out of a cannon into a mountain of arse pie and laughed at for making things up.

Had some snow/crank (coke substitute) it also was muck, not the worst muck I've gotten out of those useless teeny bopper muck shops, I was actually surprised it wasn't complete and utter horse dung but it was dung all the same.

seamus · 16-07-2009 11:29am

TedB wrote: »

I suppose you don't drink, or enjoy the odd cigarette? Hell, I'm sure you don't even eat anything that has being fried.

Actually, I don't enjoy the odd cigarette, can't stand them.

Nevertheless, you're comparing alcohol - a naturally-occuring toxin which has been consumed for so long our bodies have actually evolved methods of dealing with it and which is under very strict regulation in terms of amounts and production - against some random assortment of toxins which has been on the market less than a couple of years, is compeltely unproven in terms of the effect on humans and is produced and bagged without any quality controls whatsoever by *somebody*, *somewhere*.

There's no comparison.

You'd be safer taking the illegal stuff. No really, at least then you can pretty sure about what you're taking.

ScumLord · 16-07-2009 11:30am

Powerhouse wrote: »

You are the one who is making it into a drugs legalisation debate.

Just two things:

1) there is no such thing as a victimless crime. Only those too dumb to think it through.

That's rubbish, my small town has double yellow lines if I park on them who gets hurt. I'd transitions that right up to weed.

2) There is no practical difference between decriminalising and legalising drugs - both serve to make it easier for criminals to operate.

Legalizing drugs means it becomes a legitimate business, taxed and controlled. Crime bosses can just as easily own a pub or any other business. If cannabis where legal the people selling it would no longer be criminals. decriminalizing drugs makes it easier for them to operate that's why I want full legalization.

StopWhispering · 16-07-2009 11:33am

seamus wrote: »

Actually, I don't enjoy the odd cigarette, can't stand them.

Nevertheless, you're comparing alcohol - a naturally-occuring toxin which has been consumed for so long our bodies have actually evolved methods of dealing with it and which is under very strict regulation in terms of amounts and production - against some random assortment of toxins which has been on the market less than a couple of years, is compeltely unproven in terms of the effect on humans and is produced and bagged without any quality controls whatsoever by *somebody*, *somewhere*.

There's no comparison.

You'd be safer taking the illegal stuff. No really, at least then you can pretty sure about what you're taking.

Kudos! Each new legal high product is a variation of a previous product. Even a slight variation of an already safe chemical can cause obscene reactions in the human body. Try breathing in ozone instead of oxygen for example.

seamus · 16-07-2009 11:34am

ScumLord wrote: »

That's rubbish, my small town has double yellow lines if I park on them who gets hurt.

The cars who can't pass eachother in the street because you're blocking their way.

ScumLord · 16-07-2009 11:36am

seamus wrote: »

The cars who can't pass eachother in the street because you're blocking their way.

But they can pass, the road is as hide as four cars and the lines where only recently put in to add a bit of gloss to the new square, absolutely nobody pays any attention to them and the town continues on as it always has.

kavoweb · 16-07-2009 11:39am

rapidly descending into a farce guys....bit steep of a tangent considering the post initially started on legal highs....

StopWhispering · 16-07-2009 11:39am

ScumLord wrote: »

Legalizing drugs means it becomes a legitimate business, taxed and controlled. Crime bosses can just as easily own a pub or any other business. If cannabis where legal the people selling it would no longer be criminals. decriminalizing drugs makes it easier for them to operate that's why I want full legalization.

Yeah but then you have the unfortunate side effect of having a bunch of stupefied high people zombieing around the place. At least the only people like that now are the ones to desperate to escape reality to care. If drugs are fully legalised, it removes the negative attributions from society's psyche and more people will feel more comfortable taking them.

I'd take a bit of crime in exchange for a land of the living dead any day.

Anyway, this thread is about legal highs not legalising highs.

DarkJager · 16-07-2009 11:41am

StopWhispering wrote: »

Yeah but then you have the unfortunate side effect of having a bunch of stupefied high people zombieing around the place. At least the only people like that now are the ones to desperate to escape reality to care. If drugs are fully legalised, it removes the negative attributions from society's psyche and more people will feel more comfortable taking them.

I'd take a bit of crime in exchange for a land of the living dead any day.

Anyway, this thread is about legal highs not legalising highs.

So you'd prefer to have a country full of violent drunks than quiet mellowed out stoners? You must be out of your mind.

ScumLord · 16-07-2009 11:41am

StopWhispering wrote: »

Yeah but then you have the unfortunate side effect of having a bunch of stupefied high people zombieing around the place. At least the only people like that now are the ones to desperate to escape reality to care. If drugs are fully legalised, it removes the negative attributions from society's psyche and more people will feel more comfortable taking them.

I'd take a bit of crime in exchange for a land of the living dead any day.

Just because you'd go out and smoke yourself stupid day in day out because somethings been made legal doesn't mean everyone would. Some of us have jobs to go to you know. Drugs don't pay for them selfs. Are you currently a raving alcoholic because alcohol is freely available?

You need help sir.

StopWhispering · 16-07-2009 11:45am

DarkJager wrote: »

So you'd prefer to have a country full of violent drunks than quiet mellowed out stoners? You must be out of your mind.

Not as out of my mind as the "mellow stoners". The country will always be full of violent drunks, whether full legalisation of drugs happens or not. So your point is moot.

StopWhispering · 16-07-2009 11:47am

ScumLord wrote: »

Just because you'd go out and smoke yourself stupid day in day out because somethings been made legal doesn't mean everyone would. Some of us have jobs to go to you know. Drugs don't pay for them selfs. Are you currently a raving alcoholic because alcohol is freely available?

You need help sir.

Of course, not all people would go out and toke till their eyes bleed but it would be difficult to argue that a lot more people would if the stigma (deserved or not) was reversed. Surely a mind altering drug being used considerably more in society would have some effect?

ScumLord · 16-07-2009 11:51am

StopWhispering wrote: »

Of course, not all people would go out and toke till their eyes bleed but it would be difficult to argue that a lot more people would if the stigma (deserved or not) was reversed. Surely a mind altering drug being used considerably more in society would have some effect?

They'd try it yes, but like with alcohol it takes a dedicated few to spend all day every day stoned as a badger.

All you have to do is look at the country's that have legalized cannabis they all have much lower use than we do.

kavoweb · 16-07-2009 11:52am

society will always catagorise its "beasts".........every generation has its selected downfalls,gambling,music,booze,drugs ....not everybody peers downwards from our respective dizzy heights:rolleyes:

DarkJager · 16-07-2009 11:53am

StopWhispering wrote: »

Not as out of my mind as the "mellow stoners". The country will always be full of violent drunks, whether full legalisation of drugs happens or not. So your point is moot.

No my point isn't moot. You support the use of a drug more dangerous than weed, but is only acceptable because its "legal". And as for painting stoners as some sort of goons - I've smoked every day for the last 8 years, have a job that pays the bills, a good social life and am very well educated. So take your generalisations elsewhere thanks.

DarkJager · 16-07-2009 11:54am

StopWhispering wrote: »

Of course, not all people would go out and toke till their eyes bleed but it would be difficult to argue that a lot more people would if the stigma (deserved or not) was reversed. Surely a mind altering drug being used considerably more in society would have some effect?

Weed is not a mind altering drug - please do your homework before you start spouting nonsense.

StopWhispering · 16-07-2009 11:57am

ScumLord wrote: »

They'd try it yes, but like with alcohol it takes a dedicated few to spend all day every day stoned as a badger.

All you have to do is look at the country's that have legalized cannabis they all have much lower use than we do.

What you say it true but those are different countries, clearly their governments trusted their citizens not to go nuts but this is Ireland. I'm not saying you can't trust Marijuana (as I consider no more dangerous and addictive than alcohol and dozens of times less addictive than cigarettes) but I'm saying you can't trust the public to use it appropriately. Other countries have legalised alcohol as have we and we consume considerably more than all but one other country in Europe.

kavoweb · 16-07-2009 11:59am

darkjager is exactly right and in one fell swoop,proves that ultimately,it is the individuals responsibility to either be a "legal stoned goon" or just a stoned "goon". the "legality" of it is indifferent to the user.

StopWhispering · 16-07-2009 11:59am

DarkJager wrote: »

No my point isn't moot. You support the use of a drug more dangerous than weed, but is only acceptable because its "legal". And as for painting stoners as some sort of goons - I've smoked every day for the last 8 years, have a job that pays the bills, a good social life and am very well educated. So take your generalisations elsewhere thanks.

Well I don't know you so I have to make generalisations in order to make reference to weed users.

Marijuana alters your neurochemistry so yes, it is a mind-altering drug. What do you think the high is? Magic?

StopWhispering · 16-07-2009 12:04pm

kavoweb wrote: »

darkjager is exactly right and in one fell swoop,proves that ultimately,it is the individuals responsibility to either be a "legal stoned goon" or just a stoned "goon". the "legality" of it is indifferent to the user.

If the "legality" is indifferent to the user then how can the user be expected to exercise responsibility to be a "legal stoned goon"?

ScumLord · 16-07-2009 12:04pm

StopWhispering wrote: »

What you say it true but those are different countries, clearly their governments trusted their citizens not to go nuts but this is Ireland. I'm not saying you can't trust Marijuana (as I consider no more dangerous and addictive than alcohol and dozens of times less addictive than cigarettes) but I'm saying you can't trust the public to use it appropriately. Other countries have legalised alcohol as have we and we consume considerably more than all but one other country in Europe.

So what your saying is the law is wrong but Irish people are dicks so it doesn't matter?

StopWhispering · 16-07-2009 12:10pm

ScumLord wrote: »

So what your saying is the law is wrong but Irish people are dicks so it doesn't matter?

Ha ha! Well for want of a better phrase. I think Irish people (of which I am one) just require more legislation than other societies. I think some drugs such as Marijuana should be legalised and regulated but I am unsure whether this is necessarily a good thing for the public.

Back to point: I think legal highs are just plain dangerous.

jeckel · 16-07-2009 12:11pm

the legal smokes are pretty effective but they feel more toxic when used over a period of time. if you can get good weed you're probably better off smoking that but i'ld smoke the legal stuff before a lot of the crap i've gotten over the years.

to be honest, it's so easy to get legal highs of every sort that it seems a complete waste of time to keep the old reliables illegal, legalise them and tax them to the nines, that'll sort the budget out.

nothing like a bit of escapism in times of economic crisis.

DarkJager · 16-07-2009 12:12pm

StopWhispering wrote: »

Well I don't know you so I have to make generalisations in order to make reference to weed users.

Marijuana alters your neurochemistry so yes, it is a mind-altering drug. What do you think the high is? Magic?

Its a mood and perception enhancing drug, not mind altering. For example, LSD is a mind altering drug - it completely removes all boundaries, rules and normality from reality. Smoking weed will simply make you feel relaxed, music sounds way better, food tastes better and you are generally just happy and chilled out.

StopWhispering · 16-07-2009 12:15pm

DarkJager wrote: »

Its a mood and perception enhancing drug, not mind altering. For example, LSD is a mind altering drug - it completely removes all boundaries, rules and normality from reality. Smoking weed will simply make you feel relaxed, music sounds way better, food tastes better and you are generally just happy and chilled out.

Well to define whether it is or not, we must first define the mind and I'm not prepared to get into that as it's WAY off topic.

TedB · 16-07-2009 12:24pm

DarkJager wrote: »

Its a mood and perception enhancing drug, not mind altering. For example, LSD is a mind altering drug - it completely removes all boundaries, rules and normality from reality. Smoking weed will simply make you feel relaxed, music sounds way better, food tastes better and you are generally just happy and chilled out.

I was crying tears of joy while listening to Nina Simone last night. Not only is that very sad and unusual, but incredibly relaxing. There's no feeling like it.

StopWhispering · 16-07-2009 12:28pm

TedB wrote: »

I was crying tears of joy while listening to Nina Simone last night. Not only is that very sad and unusual, but incredibly relaxing. There's no feeling like it.

Nina Simone is awesome!

Terry · 16-07-2009 12:29pm

kavoweb wrote: »

rapidly descending into a farce guys....bit steep of a tangent considering the post initially started on legal highs....

Welcome to After Hours.
Please remember to switch your brian back on before you leave.

ScumLord wrote: »

Just because you'd go out and smoke yourself stupid day in day out because somethings been made legal doesn't mean everyone would. Some of us have jobs to go to you know. Drugs don't pay for them selfs. Are you currently a raving alcoholic because alcohol is freely available?

You need help sir.

Attack the post, not the poster.

As for legalising drugs, it doesn't make them any less addictive.

Legal Highs

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