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Legal Highs

TedB

I've heard a lot about these so called 'legal highs' in 'headshops' and I have to be honest, I was very skeptical.

1) There's being no research on any of these brands - Pulse, Spice etc. The party pills are particularly dangerous - they have 20 years + research on MDMA, nothing on most of these brands. I don't even think any of them are safety controlled.

AND they are only legal on a technicality. In that, we haven't gotten round to banning these particular substances just yet.

2) I like a bit of weed (Smoke maybe 5 or 6 times a year. Relaxing and a very nice buzz when with a couple of mates enjoying a few tins) So I think to myself - if I can get weed, why the hell would I smoke this crap?

Last night me and a friend tried out the 'Pulse' stuff. Went into a head shop, bought two five euro bags and smoked the balls off it. One five euro bag is the equivilent of a 20 euro bag of weed. Honestly, the stuff blew me away. As strong as weed - if not stronger, considering the quantity we took.

It sets your heartrate mad and it tastes like absolute dung, but it does give you a very very distinct 'high' and a great stoney buss for ages. It seems to be a cocktail of herbs thrown together.

Anyways, what is the story with these legal highs? I can testify that it is as good if not better than the illegal stuff and its so readily available - yet its not the same as weed at all - we don't really know what the long term effects of this stuff is - we know quite a bit about the effects of weed.

I'm not in favour of drugs legalisation, but I am in favour of decriminalising the stuff. It is, after all, a victimless crime (In that the only victim is me, the adult who occasionaly likes to dabble in the odd novelty) So don't try and make this into a drugs legalisation debate.

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DarkJager

StopWhispering wrote: »

Yeah but then you have the unfortunate side effect of having a bunch of stupefied high people zombieing around the place. At least the only people like that now are the ones to desperate to escape reality to care. If drugs are fully legalised, it removes the negative attributions from society's psyche and more people will feel more comfortable taking them.

I'd take a bit of crime in exchange for a land of the living dead any day.

Anyway, this thread is about legal highs not legalising highs.

So you'd prefer to have a country full of violent drunks than quiet mellowed out stoners? You must be out of your mind.

ScumLord

StopWhispering wrote: »

Yeah but then you have the unfortunate side effect of having a bunch of stupefied high people zombieing around the place. At least the only people like that now are the ones to desperate to escape reality to care. If drugs are fully legalised, it removes the negative attributions from society's psyche and more people will feel more comfortable taking them.

I'd take a bit of crime in exchange for a land of the living dead any day.

Just because you'd go out and smoke yourself stupid day in day out because somethings been made legal doesn't mean everyone would. Some of us have jobs to go to you know. Drugs don't pay for them selfs. Are you currently a raving alcoholic because alcohol is freely available?

You need help sir.

StopWhispering

DarkJager wrote: »

So you'd prefer to have a country full of violent drunks than quiet mellowed out stoners? You must be out of your mind.

Not as out of my mind as the "mellow stoners". The country will always be full of violent drunks, whether full legalisation of drugs happens or not. So your point is moot.

StopWhispering

ScumLord wrote: »

Just because you'd go out and smoke yourself stupid day in day out because somethings been made legal doesn't mean everyone would. Some of us have jobs to go to you know. Drugs don't pay for them selfs. Are you currently a raving alcoholic because alcohol is freely available?

You need help sir.

Of course, not all people would go out and toke till their eyes bleed but it would be difficult to argue that a lot more people would if the stigma (deserved or not) was reversed. Surely a mind altering drug being used considerably more in society would have some effect?

ScumLord

StopWhispering wrote: »

Of course, not all people would go out and toke till their eyes bleed but it would be difficult to argue that a lot more people would if the stigma (deserved or not) was reversed. Surely a mind altering drug being used considerably more in society would have some effect?

They'd try it yes, but like with alcohol it takes a dedicated few to spend all day every day stoned as a badger.

All you have to do is look at the country's that have legalized cannabis they all have much lower use than we do.

kavoweb

society will always catagorise its "beasts".........every generation has its selected downfalls,gambling,music,booze,drugs ....not everybody peers downwards from our respective dizzy heights:rolleyes:

DarkJager

StopWhispering wrote: »

Not as out of my mind as the "mellow stoners". The country will always be full of violent drunks, whether full legalisation of drugs happens or not. So your point is moot.

No my point isn't moot. You support the use of a drug more dangerous than weed, but is only acceptable because its "legal". And as for painting stoners as some sort of goons - I've smoked every day for the last 8 years, have a job that pays the bills, a good social life and am very well educated. So take your generalisations elsewhere thanks.

DarkJager

StopWhispering wrote: »

Of course, not all people would go out and toke till their eyes bleed but it would be difficult to argue that a lot more people would if the stigma (deserved or not) was reversed. Surely a mind altering drug being used considerably more in society would have some effect?

Weed is not a mind altering drug - please do your homework before you start spouting nonsense.

StopWhispering

ScumLord wrote: »

They'd try it yes, but like with alcohol it takes a dedicated few to spend all day every day stoned as a badger.

All you have to do is look at the country's that have legalized cannabis they all have much lower use than we do.

What you say it true but those are different countries, clearly their governments trusted their citizens not to go nuts but this is Ireland. I'm not saying you can't trust Marijuana (as I consider no more dangerous and addictive than alcohol and dozens of times less addictive than cigarettes) but I'm saying you can't trust the public to use it appropriately. Other countries have legalised alcohol as have we and we consume considerably more than all but one other country in Europe.

kavoweb

darkjager is exactly right and in one fell swoop,proves that ultimately,it is the individuals responsibility to either be a "legal stoned goon" or just a stoned "goon". the "legality" of it is indifferent to the user.

StopWhispering

DarkJager wrote: »

No my point isn't moot. You support the use of a drug more dangerous than weed, but is only acceptable because its "legal". And as for painting stoners as some sort of goons - I've smoked every day for the last 8 years, have a job that pays the bills, a good social life and am very well educated. So take your generalisations elsewhere thanks.

Well I don't know you so I have to make generalisations in order to make reference to weed users.

Marijuana alters your neurochemistry so yes, it is a mind-altering drug. What do you think the high is? Magic?

StopWhispering

kavoweb wrote: »

darkjager is exactly right and in one fell swoop,proves that ultimately,it is the individuals responsibility to either be a "legal stoned goon" or just a stoned "goon". the "legality" of it is indifferent to the user.

If the "legality" is indifferent to the user then how can the user be expected to exercise responsibility to be a "legal stoned goon"?

ScumLord

StopWhispering wrote: »

What you say it true but those are different countries, clearly their governments trusted their citizens not to go nuts but this is Ireland. I'm not saying you can't trust Marijuana (as I consider no more dangerous and addictive than alcohol and dozens of times less addictive than cigarettes) but I'm saying you can't trust the public to use it appropriately. Other countries have legalised alcohol as have we and we consume considerably more than all but one other country in Europe.

So what your saying is the law is wrong but Irish people are dicks so it doesn't matter?

StopWhispering

ScumLord wrote: »

So what your saying is the law is wrong but Irish people are dicks so it doesn't matter?

Ha ha! Well for want of a better phrase. I think Irish people (of which I am one) just require more legislation than other societies. I think some drugs such as Marijuana should be legalised and regulated but I am unsure whether this is necessarily a good thing for the public.

Back to point: I think legal highs are just plain dangerous.

jeckel

the legal smokes are pretty effective but they feel more toxic when used over a period of time. if you can get good weed you're probably better off smoking that but i'ld smoke the legal stuff before a lot of the crap i've gotten over the years.

to be honest, it's so easy to get legal highs of every sort that it seems a complete waste of time to keep the old reliables illegal, legalise them and tax them to the nines, that'll sort the budget out.

nothing like a bit of escapism in times of economic crisis.

DarkJager

StopWhispering wrote: »

Well I don't know you so I have to make generalisations in order to make reference to weed users.

Marijuana alters your neurochemistry so yes, it is a mind-altering drug. What do you think the high is? Magic?

Its a mood and perception enhancing drug, not mind altering. For example, LSD is a mind altering drug - it completely removes all boundaries, rules and normality from reality. Smoking weed will simply make you feel relaxed, music sounds way better, food tastes better and you are generally just happy and chilled out.

StopWhispering

DarkJager wrote: »

Its a mood and perception enhancing drug, not mind altering. For example, LSD is a mind altering drug - it completely removes all boundaries, rules and normality from reality. Smoking weed will simply make you feel relaxed, music sounds way better, food tastes better and you are generally just happy and chilled out.

Well to define whether it is or not, we must first define the mind and I'm not prepared to get into that as it's WAY off topic.

TedB

DarkJager wrote: »

Its a mood and perception enhancing drug, not mind altering. For example, LSD is a mind altering drug - it completely removes all boundaries, rules and normality from reality. Smoking weed will simply make you feel relaxed, music sounds way better, food tastes better and you are generally just happy and chilled out.

I was crying tears of joy while listening to Nina Simone last night. Not only is that very sad and unusual, but incredibly relaxing. There's no feeling like it.

StopWhispering

TedB wrote: »

I was crying tears of joy while listening to Nina Simone last night. Not only is that very sad and unusual, but incredibly relaxing. There's no feeling like it.

Nina Simone is awesome!

Terry

kavoweb wrote: »

rapidly descending into a farce guys....bit steep of a tangent considering the post initially started on legal highs....

Welcome to After Hours.
Please remember to switch your brian back on before you leave.

ScumLord wrote: »

Just because you'd go out and smoke yourself stupid day in day out because somethings been made legal doesn't mean everyone would. Some of us have jobs to go to you know. Drugs don't pay for them selfs. Are you currently a raving alcoholic because alcohol is freely available?

You need help sir.

Attack the post, not the poster.

As for legalising drugs, it doesn't make them any less addictive.

WillieCocker

StopWhispering wrote: »

Well to define whether it is or not, we must first define the mind and I'm not prepared to get into that as it's WAY off topic.

What a load of wet poo.
You can define it as you please and when someone else defines it, you must change the subject then pretend to be avoiding going off topic.:pac:

jeckel

DarkJager wrote: »

LSD is a mind altering drug

not in ireland, it's not, in ireland it's usually more useful for blotting really small fountain pens.

Pace2008

TedB wrote: »

I
It sets your heartrate mad and it tastes like absolute dung, but it does give you a very very distinct 'high' and a great stoney buss for ages. It seems to be a cocktail of herbs thrown together.

Don't be fooled by the packaging, there's nothing 'herbal' about it. It probably contains JWH-018 which is a a synthetic cannabinoid.

Calling a product 'natural' doesn't ensure its safety anyway, it's just a marketing ploy to appeal to hippies and stupid people. LSD is semi-synthetic and isn't physically harmful at all, while Datura grows out of the ground and will make you delirious for days and possibly kill you if eaten.

Re. all the legal Coke substitutes; I'm pretty sure they just contain a high dose of caffeine.

TedB

Pace2008 wrote: »

Don't be fooled by the packaging, there's nothing 'herbal' about it. It probably contains JWH-018 which is a a synthetic cannabinoid.

Calling a product 'natural' doesn't ensure its safety anyway, it's just a marketing ploy to appeal to hippies and stupid people. LSD is semi-synthetic and isn't physically harmful at all, while Datura grows out of the ground and will make you delirious for days and possibly kill you if eaten.

Re. all the legal Coke substitutes; I'm pretty sure they just contain a high dose of caffeine.

Will people please take care not to assume people who have tried this are morons? I'm well aware of the differing implications of 'herbal' and a 'bunch of herbs thrown together'. Jeez. Your wrecking my buzz man.

Pace2008

TedB wrote: »

Will people please take care not to assume people who have tried this are morons? I'm well aware of the differing implications of 'herbal' and a 'bunch of herbs thrown together'. Jeez. Your wrecking my buzz man.

I wasn't suggesting you were stupid at all. If the packaging says it's a herbal mix - which it is, it just so happens that the active ingredient is not - then it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that it is, in fact, a herbal mix. I was saying that people who assume that a product is safe because it's natural are stupid, or at least misguided.

kumate_champ07

DarkJager wrote: »

Weed is not a mind altering drug - please do your homework before you start spouting nonsense.

orly?

kumate_champ07

DarkJager wrote: »

Its a mood and perception enhancing drug, not mind altering.

perception is all in the mind.
what about when you take too much and the paranoia sets in and walls get bigger and you start to hear quiet sounds as loud sounds and your mind starts racing and you become scared ****less?
ye i guess it doesnt alter your mind at all.

its well known in the medical world that longterm and even short term use of cannabis can lead to psychological(mind) disorders.

WillieCocker

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

its well known in the medical world that longterm and even short term use of cannabis can lead to psychological(mind) disorders.

It's also well known (should say speculated) that the illness was there all along and that cannabis enhances it and brings it to the fore.

kumate_champ07

WillieCocker wrote: »

It's also well known (should say speculated) that the illness was there all along and that cannabis enhances it and brings it to the fore.

so the person is ill but is not ill at the same time?
how do they know that they might start hearing voices if they smoke cannabis?

i know alot of people that use it but there are serious risks involved for some people. the mind is a powerful thing and when 'altered' can cause damage.

WillieCocker

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

so the person is ill but is not ill at the same time?

Do i sound like Dr.Greenthumb?
Most of the posts here are spouting opinion not fact, and they do say if you have a mental illness , cannabis will make it worse.
Do you think they would know about the illness before they smoke?