Low-Carbing

neuro-praxis

Ok, I just want to dispel a few myths here. There is a lot of talk recently in the food diary forum about "low-carbing" and it is nothing of the sort.

I am not a fan particularly of low-carbing as it isn't right for me personally, but I would like to make it clear to those who are confused what it actually is.

1. What are carbohydrates?
Carbohydrates are STARCHES and SUGARS. Carboydrate is typically plant-based, although dairy does contain some carbohydrate ("lactose" found in milk and yoghurt is "milk sugar").

Carbohydrates can be SIMPLE or COMPLEX. These names relate to the length of time it takes the body to break them down. SIMPLE CARBS are best avoided, as they cause blood sugar spikes and make weight gain an easier prospect for your body. Simple carbs include table-sugar, honey and white bread. Your body breaks them down fast and you will be hungry soon.

COMPLEX CARBS are wholegrain breads, porridge, wholegrain non-sugary cereals (like Shredded Wheat), brown basmati rice and wholegrain pasta. These are broken down more slowly in your body and produce a more even blood sugar level. You will be full for longer.

Carby foods are typically breads, pasta, rice, noodles, potatoes, vegetables, fruit, crisps, chocolate, cakes, biscuits, ice cream, fruit yoghurts etc.

2. What is a low-carb diet?
A low-carb diet is where you consume no more than 20-45g of carbohydrates per day. This is very, very little carbohydrate. For example, one slice of white bread contains 12.7g of carbohydrate, and a single orange contains over 15g of carbohydrate.

3. What would a low-carb diet look like?
A low-carb diet in the earliest phase might look like this:

Breakfast -
* 2 slices of bacon
* 2 eggs fried in butter
* Black decaf coffee

Lunch -
* 4 oz lean meat, fish, or chicken (no breading), cooked with olive oil
* 1 oz cheese
* Water

Snack -
* 1 oz of macadamia nuts or pecans

Dinner -
* 6 oz steak or a pork chop (not breaded), cooked with olive oil
* One boiled egg
* Water

Snack -
* 1 oz macadamia nuts or pecans

After a number of weeks on this kind of diet (known as the INDUCTION PHASE), it is possible then to reintroduce lots of green vegetables like kale, sprouts and salad greens (but no carrots, corn, potatoes, turnip or anything very starchy) and some legumes (peas and beans) and some berries (but not too many).

When you have introduced these vegetables and legumes, you are on a "lower-carb" diet. For an example of a great lower-carb diet, see Dolorous's most recent entries in her food diary in the food diary forum.

I hope those who are confused now understand what low-carbing and lower-carbing is.

If, like me, you take it easy on the bread and pasta but still include them in your diet, you are NOT low-carbing. You are just taking it easy on simple carbohydrates. :pac:

rebelchick2

Thanks for that np!!!!

I was totally confused by the low carb diet!!!! I think I'll just be taking it easy on the bread and pasta like u!!!!

EileenG

Green, leavy and salad vegetables are all extremely low carb, so you can include those in all meals and still stay under your set number of carbs a day.

A McDonald's side salad has 1g of net carbs so even in the induction phase, you could eat 20 of those a day. A portion of spinach has about 1g of net carbs, broccoli and cauliflower have about 2g per portion.

My typical low carb day is more like:

Breakfast: Mushroom and herb omlette, or poached eggs with spinach.

Snack: handful of raw almonds.

Lunch: fish with huge green salad, olive oil dressing.

Snack: whey shake on work out days, coffee and cream if meeting friends.

Dinner: Grilled steak, or roast chicken, or casserole, or pork stirfry. Lots of broccoli, cauliflower, green beans, asparagus etc. Strewed rhubarb for dessert.

Supper: cottage cheese.

metamorphosis

Couldn agree more NP.

Nothing worse when someone says im low carbing and you as what they are eating and they reply 'loadsa fruit, porridge, brown bread, special K'!!

Christ. Proper carb restriction is a bastard. Did it briefly and knew it was not for me. I can live without bread/pasta/porridge/rice but cannot live without fruit at all and milk and cottage cheese. Well i prob could but i choose not too becuase im happy with my shape/weight etc. If i ever get bored and want to rev things for a couple weeks then sure

Macha

Hi neuro-praxis, where did you get the 40g daily limit for a low-carb diet? Just interested as I've heard anything from 25g to under 100g/day of carbs as qualifying as low-carb.

Plus, I'd like to add that many people (ahem, like me) follow a low-carb diet, but do consume carbs after doing exercise, when tolerance has increased. Therefore it isn't just about a daily limit but also about timing.

ragg

taconnol wrote: »

Hi neuro-praxis, where did you get the 40g daily limit for a low-carb diet? Just interested as I've heard anything from 25g to under 100g/day of carbs as qualifying as low-carb.

Plus, I'd like to add that many people (ahem, like me) follow a low-carb diet, but do consume carbs after doing exercise, when tolerance has increased. Therefore it isn't just about a daily limit but also about timing.

Same as me, carbs before and after workout only :pac:

neuro-praxis

Thanks for the feedback.

EileenG and taconnol...I should say, this post is not really aimed at folks like yourselves. It's aimed at those who think they are low-carbing, but are eating bread and chocolate most days.

taconnol, the figure of 25-40g is simply typical of the induction phase of pretty much all listed low-carb diets - Atkins starts at just 20g a day. It doesn't reflect, for example, what is recommended by major health organisations, or all low-carb proponents.

Dolbert

Thanks for the post Neuro Having done the 'cutting back on carbs' thing, and now the proper lower-carb thing, I can safely say there is a world of difference!

artvandalay

Thanks Neuro.

I was mulling over the idea of cutting out the carbs for the next few weeks, as I have not lost any weight in the last fortnight. However as you say yourself, I don't think its for everyone and I doubt it would be for me.

The changes I want to make are changes I want to keep up long term, and cutting out carbs, although giving a good kick start to a diet, would not be sustainable long-term.

I'm fairly sure if I were to try it that I would end up eating more fattier foods, like steak/sausages etc but also eating the odd carb, like beer and I would end up in a worse position. I also think that it helps if you can prepare your own food for lunch etc, which I can't do at work...

all_smilz

artvandalay wrote: »

Thanks Neuro.

I was mulling over the idea of cutting out the carbs for the next few weeks, as I have not lost any weight in the last fortnight. However as you say yourself, I don't think its for everyone and I doubt it would be for me.

The changes I want to make are changes I want to keep up long term, and cutting out carbs, although giving a good kick start to a diet, would not be sustainable long-term.

I'm fairly sure if I were to try it that I would end up eating more fattier foods, like steak/sausages etc but also eating the odd carb, like beer and I would end up in a worse position. I also think that it helps if you can prepare your own food for lunch etc, which I can't do at work...

you cant bring beer to work???????????

artvandalay

I meant at the weekend!!!!!!!!!! As in theres no point, in my case, in having high fat/low carb foods but also having the odd carb as in going out at weekends etc!!!! (Of course I could not go out..)

I do not have the option of bringing in pre-prepared food to work, so I have to eat out and all the places near work are coffee shops etc where its all chips and sandwiches..there wouldnt be enough carb-free options.

ntlbell

artvandalay wrote: »

I meant at the weekend!!!!!!!!!! As in theres no point, in my case, in having high fat/low carb foods but also having the odd carb as in going out at weekends etc!!!! (Of course I could not go out..)

I do not have the option of bringing in pre-prepared food to work, so I have to eat out and all the places near work are coffee shops etc where its all chips and sandwiches..there wouldnt be enough carb-free options.

what stops you bringing lunch to work?

artvandalay

Well I'm exagerating when I say I can't bring food to work. We are not allowed eat or have hot drinks at our desks, for Health and Safety reasons:rolleyes:

We have a canteen, but the caterer is a bit touchy about bringing in food and using his services/supplies etc.

We used to have access to a fridge, microwave, kettle etc which was handy, but these were removed:mad:

Macha

artvandalay wrote: »

Well I'm exagerating when I say I can't bring food to work. We are not allowed eat or have hot drinks at our desks, for Health and Safety reasons:rolleyes:

We have a canteen, but the caterer is a bit touchy about bringing in food and using his services/supplies etc.

We used to have access to a fridge, microwave, kettle etc which was handy, but these were removed:mad:

Well aside from the health aspects, this must be costing you a lot!

I would definitely take this up with HR. It's a very simple and basic right to be allowed to eat your own lunch inside your work building, either at your desk or in some sort of kitchen/canteen.

Some people might not agree but if that doesn't work, you can tell them you are diabetic and need to have proper control over your meals.

Even without access to a kettle, microwave, etc you can still make some very good low-carb lunches, including:
frittata
salads
any sort of chilli or stew.

You might have to eat it cold but TBH, I don't like heating things up in plastic containers and am too lazy to transfer it into a ceramic dish so usually eat my lunch cold anyway :pac:

The_Conductor

taconnol wrote: »

Some people might not agree but if that doesn't work, you can tell them you are diabetic and need to have proper control over your meals.

Diabetics need to know the quantity and type of carbohydrate they are eating- in order to manage their diabetes. Many caterers 'overcook' meals, or may have them in serving cabinets for protracted periods of time. With certain food types- this can significantly change the GI profile of the food- which in some cases might mean a diabetic might have to significantly modify their insulin regime which could potentially have serious consequences. In a work context as a First Aider/Paramedic, I've had to attend several hypoglycaemic attacks- purely as a result of people guessing incorrectly the GI of their lunch.

I do not think its a good idea to lie about having diabetes- as you are suggesting- it may have the desired effect- but equally you may find yourself considered to be a health and safety issue.......

Macha

smccarrick wrote: »

I do not think its a good idea to lie about having diabetes- as you are suggesting- it may have the desired effect- but equally you may find yourself considered to be a health and safety issue.......

Yeah I know it isn't a good idea, plus it might go down on your file in HR. I would just go insane if people restricted my meals in that way. Then again, you could always say you are at high risk: my dad has Type 2 diabetes and I have a slightly higher fasting blood glucose level than normal. I'm certainly not a health risk but I do need/feel better controlling my carb intake.

EileenG, any chance you could explain the concept of 'net carbs'?

El_Dangeroso

I would like to add a few points to anyone thinking of embarking on a low carb diet:

1. BUY A BOOK. This point is crucial. Any book where you like the look of the recipes is fine, there are numerous rules to a lc diet, not just cutting cereals and potatoes.

2. Replace carb calories with fat calories. If you cut out carbs and don't replace them with anything then you are following a low-carb, low-fat diet which will make anyone on the planet fatigued, cranky and generally miserable. If you eat <40g of carbs a day, then you seriously need to up your fat intake to over 80g a day. This means eating fatty (not lean) meat, putting full fat dressings on salads, putting herb butter on your broccoli and double cream in your americano.

3. Eat your veggies! The only veggies excluded from a low carb diet are root vegetables, some legumes and tubers and even then it's only for the initial phase. For a list of what you can eat: http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/whattoeat/a/whatveg.htm
Most berries are low carb too, a handful of strawberries is about 6g carbs and packed with nutrients.

4. You will feel crap for anything up to a month, but more than often just a week. Making your body switch to burning only fat for energy isn't easy and the detox from carbs can vary depending on your level of addiction to sugar. I had a migraine for three days followed by a full blown really heavy cold. But once you get over that, then you have more energy than you ever though possible.

5. Atkins is not the only low carb plan. For some reason Atkins has become the most well known plan, even though it's not the best or even the first. If you tried Atkins and didn't get on well, don't dismiss all LC plans, they vary wildly in macronutrient ratios and general nutritional philosophy. I personally recommend India and Neris's Idiot Proof diet because it combines good funny writing with common sense advice and excellent recipes where you can get all the ingredients in your local supermarket.

6. You have to learn to cook. Convenience food is high carb food unfortunately, so unless you want to eat the same boring meat + veg every day which is a recipe for feeling deprived and reaching for the biscuits, you need to keep adding new recipes to your arsenal. My favourites are Onion Bhajiis, feta and red onion muffins, french toast made with almond bread and chilli bake. When you make a nice meal for yourself you'll never feel deprived.

Zamboni

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

2. Replace carb calories with fat calories. If you cut out carbs and don't replace them with anything then you are following a low-carb, low-fat diet which will make anyone on the planet fatigued, cranky and generally miserable. If you eat <40g of carbs a day, then you seriously need to up your fat intake to over 80g a day. This means eating fatty (not lean) meat, putting full fat dressings on salads, putting herb butter on your broccoli and double cream in your americano.

You make a good point about replacing carbs with fat but personally I'd go for fish oils, flaxseeds oils, oily fish rather than full fat dressings which are loaded with transfats.

El_Dangeroso

Zamboni wrote: »

You make a good point about replacing carbs with fat but personally I'd go for fish oils, flaxseeds oils, oily fish rather than full fat dressings which are loaded with transfats.

Oh completely! What I meant to say was homemade dressings with pure olive oil. Most shop bought dressings use industrially processed soybean oil. The nutritional profile in vegetable oils is comparable to nothing in nature for the extreme ratios of Omega 6 which is a disaster for heart health.

Macha

Sorry to nag but, EileenG (or anyone else), I'd really like to know what net carbs are!

I see them written on the side of some protein bars but I find them quite confusing & don't know whether it's a bit of a scam, dreamt up by the low-carb industry.

neuro-praxis

I didn't answer because I was waiting for Eileen to pop in with her superior knowledge.

Net carbs are basically the grams of carbs that you would count if you were low carbing...they are the carbs of a food product, minus the fibre. Fibre has no impact on blood sugar levels so you can eat as much of it as you like while low-carbing.

Here is a sample nutritional info listing:

Kcals: 178
Carbohydrate: 46g
.....of which sugars: 11g
.....fibre: 7g
Net carbohydrates: 39g

So if you were counting your carbs, this product, despite having 46g of carbs in it, only needs to have 39g counted. Does that make sense tac?

The_Conductor

Net Carbohydrate = Total Carbohydrates – (Fibre + Any Alcohols + Glycerine + Any CNx compounds)

Note: the purpose of 'net carbs' is to establish a measure of the high GI carbs that a product contains- you also need to look at its actual sugar content however.

Macha

neuro-praxis wrote: »

So if you were counting your carbs, this product, despite having 46g of carbs in it, only needs to have 39g counted. Does that make sense tac?

Yeah, thanks neuro-praxies. Is this standard in low-carbing? So for your daily intake (assuming you are counting), you would only count 39g?

smccarrick wrote: »

Note: the purpose of 'net carbs' is to establish a measure of the high GI carbs that a product contains- you also need to look at its actual sugar content however.

Yes, I've often noticed on US products sugar is considered a sub-set of carbs, whereas here it's fibre that's considered a sub-set. Confusing!

Edit: No wait, in the US it's fibre that is a subset and here it's sugar, with the fibre listed separately, no?

neuro-praxis

taconnol wrote: »

Yeah, thanks neuro-praxies. Is this standard in low-carbing? So for your daily intake (assuming you are counting), you would only count 39g?

Yes, that's standard. Fibre has no impact on your glycaemic index so it's not counted as a net carb. Good news eh?

Macha

neuro-praxis wrote: »

Yes, that's standard. Fibre has no impact on your glycaemic index so it's not counted as a net carb. Good news eh?

woop woop! I've been counting wrong!

Although, to be honest, I'm trying to move away from counting and towards intuitive eating - anyone else tried this transition?

EileenG

In my book net carbs are total carbs - fibre. You do need to count sugar alcohols and all that other stuff. In theory, they have such a low gi that they don't spike insulin or affect your blood sugar, but it's not true for everyone.

In fact, I'd go further and say that sugar alcohols are a bag idea and should be avoided. You will probably find that they give you a stomach ache (and I'm talking about something that feels like labour contractions), disgustingly smelly farts, and a bad case of the runs. If they don't have that effect on you, you are digesting them, and should definitely count them in your daily carb count.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

On the plus side, most green veg has so much fibre relative to carbs that you can eat as much as you like without bothering to count at all.

El_Dangeroso

US foods include the fibre in the total carb count, but European foods do not.

The 'net carbs' term only applies to US labelled food.

Having said that, if a food needs nutritional information printed on it, it probably isn't good for you anyway.

I don't count anything, just try and eat lots of good quality fatty protein, low starch vegetables, low sugar dairy, nuts, seeds and berries. Calories and carbs then tend to take care of themselves and you don't end up with weight-watcher-itis, furiously trying to tot up your food for the day to see if you're 'allowed' to eat a piece of cheese lol!

lucernarian

Just to clarify, EU-based foods report "total carbohydrate" as the total of digestible (to glucose) carbohydrates in the food??

My dietician had told me to take away fibre, but all the foods I looked at listed fibre separately, and some foods gave carbs as the total "of which statch" and "of which glucose". So I don't really believe what the person said.

I'm a type 1 diabetic trying to do a proper carb counting approach, hence the interest:)

Btw, for those who saw the weigh scales thread: The salter nutri-weigh ones are going fine! I tend not to use the dietary info on it though, as it's rather americanised and doesn't match up with the information on the packets of food. I just use it in tandem with the Roche fat and calorie counter book.

The_Conductor

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I'm a type 1 diabetic trying to do a proper carb counting approach, hence the interest:)

To_be_confirmed- be careful. As a type 1 diabetic- the type of carbohydrate can be even more important to you than the Net carbohydrate content of the food you're eating. Its incredibly difficult to get an accurate measure of the GI index of some foods- and focusing solely on the CHO is dangerous.

If you have a good relationship with your dietician, who would be knowledgeable about you and your specific regime- it makes far more sense to discuss matters with him/her than seeking assistance on the internet from people who may not be aware of your specific condition or how their advice may impact on it.

Regards,

SMcCarrick

lucernarian

The glycaemic index is overemphasised. My blood sugars behave similarly to whether i eat bismati rice or a slice of toast or some squares of chocolate. Now this only my experience and will not apply to other people. Liquids with sugars etc. in them (like milkshakes, smoothies, soft drinks of course etc) are the devil however. Except for large meals with vegetables and meat, the sugars always go too high in the first 2 hours, and fall again to varying degrees afterwards. Even with brown bread salad sandwiches:) So the GI is not the full story of diabetic dietary control. But this is not my point at all anyway.

Thanks, but where was I looking for assistance? I was just looking for information on nutrition labelling! i.e. whether the total carbohydrate values on EU-market foods definitively contain fibre or not. My dietician has seen me twice and knows little of my regime actually. I wasn't looking for such a discussion on the internet with people who don't know me or the condition like a registrar/consultant would.

El_Dangeroso

Irish and English packets don't include the fibre, not sure about the continent though.

I have a blood glucose meter and I find the same thing with brown and white rice with a meal, almost identical post-prandial readings, the glycemic index tends to be a poor predictor of insulin impact beyond the obvious (simple vs complex carbs)

doctorwhogirl

I just don't know how anyone sticks to a low carb diet! Especially in this country! I really admire those of you who can because I truly can't!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big spud eater, never have been, Or pasta for that matter. But bread is a downfall. Since starting to try and loose weight I've moved to brown and wholegrain breads in the hopes that while I'm still having carbs, it's a healthier choice.

EileenG

Speak for yourself. I have no problem avoiding Irish bread, most of it is tasteless crap. It's when I go to France that I have trouble.....

Love your name! Do you watch Torchwood?

corkcomp

EileenG wrote: »

Speak for yourself. I have no problem avoiding Irish bread, most of it is tasteless crap. It's when I go to France that I have trouble.....

Love your name! Do you watch Torchwood?

Aside form proper wholegrain irish brown bread (using wheat germ and oat bran etc!) id agree with that .. Most sliced pans are total crap .. On a slight aside, I overheard a woman recently who was telling somebody that she buys 11 loaves of white sliced pan in lidl every week for her two sons who are out of work at present and that they are constantly eatting it and still not full or something to that effect!!

doctorwhogirl

EileenG wrote: »

Speak for yourself. I have no problem avoiding Irish bread, most of it is tasteless crap. It's when I go to France that I have trouble.....

Love your name! Do you watch Torchwood?

Good point! France is a no go area for me! I'd turn into a baguette!!

(To answer your question... LOVE Torchwood! Anything who related and I'm there! :cool::rolleyes:)

El_Dangeroso

Agree with Eileen, Irish bread is stodgy crap at the best of times.

I find it easy to eat low carb, there was definitely an adjustment period but now it seems odd to eat any other way. I have more motivation than most though as I have IBS (or rather had in my starch-munching days) so eating wheat is rewarded with stomach pain and rather unattractive bloating and I look instantly 6 months pregnant

Irish food is definitely carb-oriented, it's probably one of the hardest countries to avoid grains and potatoes. I found Italy and France a dream to eat in, which is strange considering how famous they are for bread, pasta etc. Lots of fatty meat, olive oil, butter and delicious vegetables. Although I definitely partook of some seafood risotto in Rome *drools at the mere thought* but carbs were in small portions and the 'main event' was almost always red meat.

Compare that to my dad who has 4 large potatoes with every dinner.

Dolbert

6 weeks into my low carb plan and 11lbs later, I can honestly say it's the least deprived I've felt while dieting, ever! For me, it's no longer a diet, but a way of life. When I get to goal I will be reintroducing wholegrains and fruit, but for now it's totally painless.

Corb

I'm trying to go low carb lately as I want to lose some weight but as a Vegetarian I'm finding it a bit difficult but thankfully I like my cheese and eggs. Could anyone tell me which would be the best nuts to eat for someone that wants to lose weight?

The_Conductor

Corb wrote: »

I'm trying to go low carb lately as I want to lose some weight but as a Vegetarian I'm finding it a bit difficult but thankfully I like my cheese and eggs. Could anyone tell me which would be the best nuts to eat for someone that wants to lose weight?

Nuts (in general) tend to be high in oils and protein- unless you marry your diet with an appropriate exercise regime which takes your calorific intake into account- you'd be better off focusing on high fibre foods rather than nuts.

Corb

Like vegetables? Which I eat a lot of as it is. Is eating a lot of cheese a bad thing?

The_Conductor

Corb wrote: »

Like vegetables? Which I eat a lot of as it is. Is eating a lot of cheese a bad thing?

Not at all- different types of cheese have different fat content though (perhaps you might like to use google or similar to explore your favourite varieties). One thing about cheese- its high in calcium, which along with being great for your bones and teeth- is also an appetite suppressant.

S.

Corb

smccarrick wrote: »

Not at all- different types of cheese have different fat content though (perhaps you might like to use google or similar to explore your favourite varieties). One thing about cheese- its high in calcium, which along with being great for your bones and teeth- is also an appetite suppressant.

S.

Great thanks! I've been using Dubliner Light Cheddar Cheese.

eclectichoney

smccarrick wrote: »

Not at all- different types of cheese have different fat content though (perhaps you might like to use google or similar to explore your favourite varieties). One thing about cheese- its high in calcium, which along with being great for your bones and teeth- is also an appetite suppressant.

S.

Although too much calcium may not be the best idea either!
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/calcium-full-story/index.html

However, these recommendations are based on very short-term studies, and are likely to be higher than what people really need. Currently, there's no good evidence that consuming more than one serving of milk per day in addition to a reasonable diet (which typically provides about 300 milligrams of calcium per day from nondairy sources) will reduce fracture risk. Because of unresolved concerns about the risk of ovarian and prostate cancer, it may be prudent to avoid higher intakes of dairy products.

El_Dangeroso

Nuts are very high in fibre and it's important to get more oils on a low carb diet than on a calorie-controlled diet.

Having said that, it's not good to get a lot of your fat from nuts as most nuts contain a high degree of Omega 6 fats, which are fine in moderation as a snack but if you are relying on them as your primary fat then that's not healthy.

Karen Barnaby does a veggie low carb cookbook that is absolutely brilliant. Her sun dried tomato quiche is amazing.

Corb

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Nuts are very high in fibre and it's important to get more oils on a low carb diet than on a calorie-controlled diet.

Having said that, it's not good to get a lot of your fat from nuts as most nuts contain a high degree of Omega 6 fats, which are fine in moderation as a snack but if you are relying on them as your primary fat then that's not healthy.

Karen Barnaby does a veggie low carb cookbook that is absolutely brilliant. Her sun dried tomato quiche is amazing.

A book like that sounds like just what I need actually! I'll pop in to town to have a look for that tomorrow, thank you

rubadub

smccarrick wrote: »

One thing about cheese- its high in calcium, which along with being great for your bones and teeth- is also an appetite suppressant.

Protein is also said to satisfy hunger aswell. (might not be the same as suppressing appetite, but more of an "appetite satisfier"?!?)- either way you eat less!

Corb wrote: »

Great thanks! I've been using Dubliner Light Cheddar Cheese.

There are lots of these new cheeses out, I like them. As the fat goes down the protein levels go up, something has to its place. So not only do you get maybe half the fat you get a lot more protein. Only problem is some of them tend to burn if putting them on pizzas etc, due to the low fat content. Some of the more processed cheeses are really just watered down and can have thickeners like gelatine added.

okedoke

neuro-praxis wrote: »

Ok, I just want to dispel a few myths here. There is a lot of talk recently in the food diary forum about "low-carbing" and it is nothing of the sort.

I am not a fan particularly of low-carbing as it isn't right for me personally, but I would like to make it clear to those who are confused what it actually is.

1. What are carbohydrates?
Carbohydrates are STARCHES and SUGARS. Carboydrate is typically plant-based, although dairy does contain some carbohydrate ("lactose" found in milk and yoghurt is "milk sugar").

Carbohydrates can be SIMPLE or COMPLEX. These names relate to the length of time it takes the body to break them down. SIMPLE CARBS are best avoided, as they cause blood sugar spikes and make weight gain an easier prospect for your body. Simple carbs include table-sugar, honey and white bread. Your body breaks them down fast and you will be hungry soon.

COMPLEX CARBS are wholegrain breads, porridge, wholegrain non-sugary cereals (like Shredded Wheat), brown basmati rice and wholegrain pasta. These are broken down more slowly in your body and produce a more even blood sugar level. You will be full for longer.

Carby foods are typically breads, pasta, rice, noodles, potatoes, vegetables, fruit, crisps, chocolate, cakes, biscuits, ice cream, fruit yoghurts etc.

2. What is a low-carb diet?
A low-carb diet is where you consume no more than 20-45g of carbohydrates per day. This is very, very little carbohydrate. For example, one slice of white bread contains 12.7g of carbohydrate, and a single orange contains over 15g of carbohydrate.

3. What would a low-carb diet look like?
A low-carb diet in the earliest phase might look like this:

Breakfast -
* 2 slices of bacon
* 2 eggs fried in butter
* Black decaf coffee

Lunch -
* 4 oz lean meat, fish, or chicken (no breading), cooked with olive oil
* 1 oz cheese
* Water

Snack -
* 1 oz of macadamia nuts or pecans

Dinner -
* 6 oz steak or a pork chop (not breaded), cooked with olive oil
* One boiled egg
* Water

Snack -
* 1 oz macadamia nuts or pecans

After a number of weeks on this kind of diet (known as the INDUCTION PHASE), it is possible then to reintroduce lots of green vegetables like kale, sprouts and salad greens (but no carrots, corn, potatoes, turnip or anything very starchy) and some legumes (peas and beans) and some berries (but not too many).

When you have introduced these vegetables and legumes, you are on a "lower-carb" diet. For an example of a great lower-carb diet, see Dolorous's most recent entries in her food diary in the food diary forum.

I hope those who are confused now understand what low-carbing and lower-carbing is.

If, like me, you take it easy on the bread and pasta but still include them in your diet, you are NOT low-carbing. You are just taking it easy on simple carbohydrates. :pac:

Neuro
I had good success with a low carb diet this year (20-40 carbs a day) and lost 1.5 stone. From 14 to 12.5 stone and dropping steadily (5'10'', male). My approach was to cut out all bread, pasta, rice, potatoes etc, sweets, crisps etc. I eat loads of green veg, some fruit, cheese, meat, fish, nuts and exercised regularly.
The meals your describing above seem to be close to no-carb rather than low carb and look to be more extreme than even the atkins induction phase.
To suggest that cutting carbs to 20-40 a day is not low carbing and won't work as weight loss regime is misleading. It's also much more feasible than what you're describing, which sounds very, very difficult. I'm not replying to have a dig at you just so that others who cut carbs down, without being extreme about it, don't think they're wasting their time.
I have no specialist knowledge of nutrition and am only speaking from the perspective of a moderately successful (so far) weight loser.

okedoke

?Cee?view

Can I hijack this thread with a query please?

I've lost a stone over the last two months. Not great progress, but not bad. I've about another four to go though!

I've done Atkins in the past (5 years ago) and I lost two stone very quickly, but couldn't keep it up.

One of the main reasons was coffee. I'd find it very hard not to have the ocassional coffee.

So, question is this.

Could I have three to four full caff espressos a day (obviously without milk) and still reap the benefits of a low carb diet (or way of eating as Atkins calls it)?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

rubadub

churchview wrote: »

I've lost a stone over the last two months. Not great progress, but not bad.

Not bad!?! 14lb over ~8weeks is 1.75lb per week when most doctors recommend 1-2lb per week maximum, so it is a very good rate of weight loss.

I doubt the coffee will make a difference, in fact it can boost the metabolism, coffee is only about 2% solids so if you not taking sugar with it then it has negligible calories or carbs.

neuro-praxis

okedoke wrote: »

To suggest that cutting carbs to 20-40 a day is not low carbing and won't work as weight loss regime is misleading. It's also much more feasible than what you're describing, which sounds very, very difficult.

Hey okedoke...I think you may have misunderstood me. I was saying that cutting carbs to 20-45g a day IS low carbing. Having more carbs than that is LOWER carbing. The diet I posted was extreme, but I started the thread in response to people on this forum who claimed to be "low carbing" or were "on a low carb diet" while eating bread with lunch and having KitKats between meals, to demonstrate what a low-carb menu looks like. I also recommended visiting, say, Dolorous's food diary in the food diary forum to see a great and varied lower-carb diet.

I have nothing particularly against low-carbing, although it does not work for me. Yes, I've lost weight with it, but no, I can't maintain it, and maintaining good habits is the most important thing for me.

Churchview, I am afraid I can't answer your question for you, I don't know. Try google? Also there are a number of low-carbers on the forum here - one of them may be able to help you.

Edit: I see Rubadub has gotten there before me

?Cee?view

Thanks rubadub. I appreciate the advice, but particularly the encouragement as well. I suppose I expected miracles as I'm combining the more careful diet with exercise as well. I've definitely changed shape to an appreciable extent, so I'm sure more weight loss will follow.

Thanks again.