problems when trying for a rifle license

daveydave25

DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE PROBLEMS GETTING RIFLE LICENSES HERE??? i applied for a .223 remington back in april and the gardai in question is making a big song and dance about it and saying only the military gets them and dont get my hopes up etc. saying its overkill on a fox and would i not get a hornet... he obviously hasnt got a clue what hes talking about, told me you cant go on a shooting range with anything over .22 blah blah. made me apply for a deer permit even tho you cant get one for it. gun laws in this country seem to be a load of bollox if ya ask me.

It wasn't me!

daveydave25 wrote: »

DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE PROBLEMS GETTING RIFLE LICENSES HERE??? i applied for a .223 remington back in april and the gardai in question is making a big song and dance about it and saying only the military gets them and dont get my hopes up etc. saying its overkill on a fox and would i not get a hornet... he obviously hasnt got a clue what hes talking about, told me you cant go on a shooting range with anything over .22 blah blah. made me apply for a deer permit even tho you cant get one for it. gun laws in this country seem to be a load of bollox if ya ask me.

He's wrong, frankly. The hornet's a great round but there's no reason you shouldn't get the .223. I'd be asking for responses in writing from here on out, and writing to him. Write, and keep a record that you've done so, detailing the following:
The popularity of the .223 as a fox round
That it is not a military round (different to 5.56 NATO)
The number of ranges on which it can be used (helps if you've got access to one, but not necessary for hunting purposes alone)
That it is not a deer-legal round and a licence for hunting deer will not be granted for it (Would be sufficient to give him a copy of the NPWS form, where it says on the front that a .22-250 with 55gr bullets is the absolute minimum).

Write all that, keep a copy, and ask for written responses. It's a good idea to do so anyway, but especially helpful in dealing with problem cases. Be polite, courteous and clear all the way through and you'll often find that their misgivings melt away if you approach it in a courteous, businesslike manner.

jwshooter

daveydave25 wrote: »

DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE PROBLEMS GETTING RIFLE LICENSES HERE??? i applied for a .223 remington back in april and the gardai in question is making a big song and dance about it and saying only the military gets them and dont get my hopes up etc. saying its overkill on a fox and would i not get a hornet... he obviously hasnt got a clue what hes talking about, told me you cant go on a shooting range with anything over .22 blah blah. made me apply for a deer permit even tho you cant get one for it. gun laws in this country seem to be a load of bollox if ya ask me.

hi dave you should have started your own thread on this .

its a problem nation wide and its going to get worse as every one that had not the points to become teacher or the like .they would not get a job else where so they joined the guards.
the sweeping of the barrel are in it now.

insist on them putting your refusal in writing stating why they are not giving it to you .

Jonty

daveydave25 wrote: »

DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE PROBLEMS GETTING RIFLE LICENSES HERE??? i applied for a .223 remington back in april and the gardai in question is making a big song and dance about it and saying only the military gets them and dont get my hopes up etc. saying its overkill on a fox and would i not get a hornet... he obviously hasnt got a clue what hes talking about, told me you cant go on a shooting range with anything over .22 blah blah. made me apply for a deer permit even tho you cant get one for it. gun laws in this country seem to be a load of bollox if ya ask me.

He's only the FO. The super has the final say. where are you located?

daveydave25

co. roscommon. hes an awful <person> the sgt. im dealing with. got talking to a sound cop and he said the sgt. in question told him its a high powered military rifle that would take lumps out of a wall and that very few are licensed in this country and i dont need one and all this ****e....

daveydave25

im having problems with the gardai getting a license for a .223 remington. it seems to be down to personal choice with some garda whether you get one or not....anyone else having difficulties please post:mad:

Sparks

Davey in cases like that we've been told by the Garda Firearms Policy Unit that you bypass the local FO and apply directly to the Superintendent. If the Superintendent gives similar problems (ie. if he seems to be refusing on grounds that are out of whack with everyone else - as opposed to saying you can't hunt bunnies with a .50bmg) then a call to the Policy Unit by your NGB seems to be the best first step to take. It's meant to be your NGB does the calling, btw, so thats most likely either the NARGC or the CAI if you're just shooting rabbits.

(He's right, btw, it would take lumps out of a wall. But so would a hornet, a .22lr, or feck it, even a .177 air pellet. Just smaller lumps )

daveydave25

just started a new thread for neone having problems getting rifle licenses, feel free to post. i was warned bymy gun dealer id have problems with this guy as he hates guns and has created problems for others before. im still waiting on a reply from dublin to see what comes back. then i l be taking further steps. i should have gotten a deer permit and got a .308 for all the trouble im getting. hed probably tell me then that a .243 or .246 would be good enough. hes a typical 6 month jackass garda. no talking to him whatso ever. he asked me why dont i apply for a cannon licnense at the rate im going........

sharky0922

well ii had similar talk with gardai when i was going for 223 too.
he said that is very big round for target shooting and i wont probably get it.
BUT he wasnt FO.
when i talk to FO about it, show him my experience with guns and that i don;t have or had problem with law(and i had papers for all that to prove it with me). he fill up form for me in 5 minuts and told me to get membership card and then he will send it straight away. first talk , frist time i meet him.
now i;m just waiting for licence. couldn;t believe that and still cant.
will belive when i get my licence
so i say its miracle.. that i got it so easy :rolleyes:
well not got it yet. heh
but i hope that you will get yours finally , good luck!

rowa

you might find its the super putting downward pressure on the sergeants etc to discourage new applicants for anything out of the ordinary ( .22 , shotgun) ,
but i have met a sergeant like the one you mention , if he's on duty when i walk in on a firearms query , i just grab a passport form and walk back out again , you might find that the forms for your application are still in the station and the super doesn't know anything at all about this , ask to speak to the inspector or ring him , but in my experience they all stick together .
some gardai suffer from hilarious bouts of journalism ballistics , e.g. the .308 that can kill someone at 9 miles or the completely plastic glock , anything bigger than a .22 is "high powered" :rolleyes:

Cass

Originally posted by daveydave25

saying its overkill on a fox and would i not get a hornet...

Thats his opinion, and his opinion only. Has no bearing on your application.

Originally posted by daveydave25

told me you cant go on a shooting range with anything over .22

B******s. Lads shooting at midlands with 243, 6.5, .270, .308, 7mm, .338.

Originally posted by daveydave25

made me apply for a deer permit even tho you cant get one for it.

Illegal. Cannot shoot deer with anything less than .243

Originally posted by itwasn'tme

I'd be asking for responses in writing from here on out,

Sound advice. Keep a log of everything.

Originally posted by daveydave25

it seems to be down to personal choice with some garda whether you get one or not....

Again its the Super has the final say. He will write a letter of recommendation (or not) and add it to your application and forward it to Dublin.

Originally posted by Sparks

bypass the local FO and apply directly to the Superintendent.

Ring your station and make an appointment to meet your Super. Tell them its of a personel legal issue when they ask what its regarding.

I know you know all this already Davey but don't let them put you off. Unless you are of unsound mental health or have any previous convictions there is no legal reason for them to refuse your application. They can impose stricter home security measures or membership of a gun club but not all out refusal.

elius

Is this your first rifle licence.. If so why dont you go for the hornet like he suggested shoot it for a couple of months and then change it for a 223....

Cass

Originally posted by elius

Is this your first rifle licence.. If so why dont you go for the hornet like he suggested shoot it for a couple of months and then change it for a 223....

1st, 2nd or 100th. It doesn't matter. He is entitled to apply for any calibre he wishes. With larger calibres you must provide a valid reason for needing it. Can't use a .338 for plinking rabbits. Common sense rules here. If davey wants a .223 and has all necessary safety requirements, membership to gun clubs, etc then as said before barring any medical or criminal past there is no reason for refusal. To compromise and go for .22 hornett may be the easy way out but what happens when he goes for the .223 in 6-12 months. The same arguments will be made by An Gardai, but now they have the added firepower (excuse the pun) of saying "sure haven't you being firing away with the Hornett why do you need to change".

Point is if a newbie walked in off the street and wanted to talk up fullbore target shooting in a big way he must get the right rifle for the job and while .220 swifts, .223s etc are great hunting rifles they are not ideal for long distance target work so if they were to take a lesser calibre (as you mentioned) it means they could not partake in the longer distance shooting as say a lad with a 6.5 or 7mm etc.

Same applies for hunting. A hornett will do the job for a certain distance but for the longer distance .223 will do everything a Hornett will do and a .223 will do.

Sparks

ezridax wrote: »

1st, 2nd or 100th. It doesn't matter. He is entitled to apply for any calibre he wishes.

Precisely correct - as in, he's entitled to apply.
It sounds like the OP's FO is not following standard policy allright, but you've got to be careful not to swing to the far side of the pendulum, or you wind up walking in, claiming a right to have whatever you want, picking a fight with the Super in the station, then taking a legal case, getting an unfriendly DC judge who gives a negative ruling, which the Minister then uses as a cudgel to beat the rest of the sport with until he's banned chunks of it and damaged the rest.

*ahem*
Anyway...

sharky0922

Sparks wrote: »

Precisely correct - as in, he's entitled to apply.
It sounds like the OP's FO is not following standard policy allright, but you've got to be careful not to swing to the far side of the pendulum, or you wind up walking in, claiming a right to have whatever you want, picking a fight with the Super in the station, then taking a legal case, getting an unfriendly DC judge who gives a negative ruling, which the Minister then uses as a cudgel to beat the rest of the sport with until he's banned chunks of it and damaged the rest.

*ahem*
Anyway...

somebody is bit pessimistic :eek:

Cass

Sparks wrote: »

Precisely correct - as in, he's entitled to apply.
It sounds like the OP's FO is not following standard policy allright, but you've got to be careful not to swing to the far side of the pendulum, or you wind up walking in, claiming a right to have whatever you want, picking a fight with the Super in the station, then taking a legal case, getting an unfriendly DC judge who gives a negative ruling, which the Minister then uses as a cudgel to beat the rest of the sport with until he's banned chunks of it and damaged the rest.

*ahem*
Anyway...

Damn you work fast Sparks . Thats alot of info in a very short burst

I'm not telling the lad to pick a fight but at the same time don't lay down and let people (you know who) push, shove, threaten, intimidate you into excepting something you don't want. Don't let your principles make an ass of you but if you don't want a Hornett and they are not going to let you get the .223 you need to think are you going to settle for something you don't want???????

Sparks

I'm not saying just lay down or walk away ezri, I'm just saying that a more results-oriented approach makes more sense here. The guy on the front desk says no, you go to his boss (because the guy on the desk isn't the super, so it's not his decision. No arguments, no protests, nothing, just go straight to the super). If that doesn't work, go to the FPU. If that doesn't work, then consider escelation; but also consider an alternate solution. No .223? What about .222? .204? .17hmr? Will they do the job? Will they be given faster?
I wouldn't go down the "we're going to the judge" road unless I had no other options.

Cass

Sparks wrote: »

....I wouldn't go down the "we're going to the judge" road unless I had no other options.

Nor would i. Never mentioned anything about it. If i'm not mistaken we're in agreement as to what he should do. Go for the .223 but if thats a no go, go for something else but before he does he must be sure a lesser calibre will suffice. If .204 or Hornett or swift works and can be got then get it. If it doesn't DO NOT settle for a gun you really don't want. Its like buying a skoda when yo wanted a ford. They are both cars and do the same job but if you can't afford the ford and you don't like the skoda don't buy it and hope it grows on you.

kakashka

22-250?perfect for foxes and the right calibre

Killguru

Do you think thats bad??? I applied for a shotgun licence at 16 1/2 years old and was refused because i was too young and needed to do a safety course. Lame

But the Garda who deals with the gun licences in there also has his own record. Some man had like 10 unlicenced guns of all kinds in his house and when they were found, this garda got the blame. So now he is very reluctant to give out licences in case he gets his ass kicked again!

Ye i would agree with the advice everyone else gave you.

rowa

to be honest we have been spoiled in some ways over the past few years , money was plentyful and any gun you wanted you could have, within reason , i started off with a .22 lr and worked my way up through the calibres as and when i could afford to and when i the gardai were ameniable ,
the hornet isn't that bad of a round and i shot scores of foxes with a cheap one and never found it wanting .
better a hornet in your safe than a .223 permanantly stuck in the dealers storeroom , that copper won't be there for ever , he has to be transfered or retire sometime .
just don't commit the fatal mistake of going in demanding anything or shouting the odds , take it gently .

daveydave25

dont worry lads,im not giving in to him i have no intention of shouting about my rights either, i have played ball with them so far, we have a new super in town from dublin so i dont know what hes like, they are by the looks of things sending me round in circles hoping i back down. i have a shotgun and no criminal or medical history. id hate to see what they would say if i went in looking for a .338 or some big bore rifle. i even suggested id join tullamore rifle range if i had to and he got very fidgety....

Cass

I got my first shotgun and .22lr many years ago without being a member of a gun club. As the years went on i climbed up the calibre ladder. I joined midlands for the target shooting NOT to get licenses. For any Garda to suggest becoming a member to get the license is irresponsible. A person could join the club get the license(s) they want then not rejoin. Then you end up with a wave of high calibre rifles in peoples hands that are no longer shooting on registered ranges.

Originally posted by rowa

to be honest we have been spoiled in some ways over the past few years , money was plentyful and any gun you wanted you could have, within reason

Spoiled is not the word i would choose. You could be a millionaire but if you don't meet the requirements for licencing then you won't get the gun. Simple as. Money to buy a gun and process for license application are mutually exclusive.(ie. just because you can afford it doesn't mean you'll get it)

Originally posted by rowa

the hornet isn't that bad of a round.......

Had a CZ Hornett for 3 years. Loved it, but like everything else i moved on.

Will not rehash all previous postings but i'll say it again. If you have your heart set on a .223 do everything possible to make it happen. If you're not overly pushed then as suggested by kakashka a 22-250 or something similar will do the job nicely. As with everything i write on this forum its only my opinion and you're as free to ignore it as heed it.

4gun

why all of a sudden the big clamp down on the licenced firearm,why are the politicians so nervous of firearms in civilian hands,a chap told me once that fireams in civilian hands keep politicians honest.When there was a ban on all big bore rifles and handguns in the 70's and 80's look at the coruption that went on in government departments,Look at the squandering that went on in government departments and simi state bodies during the years of the celtic tiger,
still wonder why there is now difficulty in getting guns licenced

rowa

4gun wrote: »

why all of a sudden the big clamp down on the licenced firearm,why are the politicians so nervous of firearms in civilian hands,a chap told me once that fireams in civilian hands keep politicians honest.When there was a ban on all big bore rifles and handguns in the 70's and 80's look at the coruption that went on in government departments,Look at the squandering that went on in government departments and simi state bodies during the years of the celtic tiger,
still wonder why there is now difficulty in getting guns licenced

its a case of "when we're good you never remember and when we're bad you never forget ",its senior gardai taking advantage of a minister whos trying to appear to be tough on crime by saying something is going to happen as a result of firearms in the hands of the law abiding public along the lines of a massacre ,

why not go for a .220 swift ? it appears on the slip from the dealers as .220 , the sergeant will think its a .22lr and be happy you backed down, i even heard of one guard being glad to issue a licence for a .22-250 over a .223 because of the .223 being a military round .

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

ezridax wrote: »

Illegal. Cannot shoot deer with anything less than .243

A 22-250 is a smaller calibre than a .243, right? If so, you are wrong.

I didn't have too much of a problem when me and my brother applied for our first licence. He was going for a double barrel shotgun, me a .22lr. The FO was dead sound, doing all the paper work etc etc, the sergent (pr!ck) came in and hurled abuse at us. "You lot aren't the kind I want running around with guns" "you won't be getting any gun lads, no point in trying",I said we had a legal right to apply for a licence, he said "You have some cheek talking to ME about the law" no idea where this came from. My dad had a word with him after that, we got our licences

But what a pr!ck... some of them think they are the law makers... I think they forget their role most of the time.

Cass

Derrick Young Wafer wrote: »

A 22-250 is a smaller calibre than a .243, right? If so, you are wrong.

My apologies. Not too big to say i'm wrong. Illegal is the wrong word. With so many shooters moving away from 22-250, 243 should be made the minimum calibre for large quarry. I know when i started shooting deer Duchas asked that i use nothing less than .243, plus a .243 has a better and cleaner kill ability than 22-250 (or even .223) and at the end of the day you want a humane shot not a bullet that fragments on impact and allows a wounded animal to run around. ( i know i'm going to get slated for "putting down" 22-250. I'm not)

rowa

ezridax wrote: »

Derrick Young Wafer wrote: »

A 22-250 is a smaller calibre than a .243, right? If so, you are wrong.

My apologies. Not too big to say i'm wrong. Illegal is the wrong word. With so many shooters moving away from 22-250, 243 should be made the minimum calibre for large quarry. I know when i started shooting deer Duchas asked that i use nothing less than .243, plus a .243 has a better and cleaner kill ability than 22-250 (or even .223) and at the end of the day you want a humane shot not a bullet that fragments on impact and allows a wounded animal to run around. ( i know i'm going to get slated for "putting down" 22-250. I'm not)

i think duchas is correct to insist on a minimum of .243 after all they have to consider the welfare of the animal , and .243 rifles and ammunition are no more expensive than .22-250 ones ,ireland as far as i know is the only country that allows the use of a .22 centrefire to shoot deer apart from the scottish who allow the use of .222 up for roe deer .

Grizzly 45

ireland as far as i know is the only country that allows the use of a .22 centrefire to shoot deer apart from the scottish who allow the use of .222 up for roe deer .

Germany,Austria and ASFIK France allow 223 on Roe as well.But they also allow shotgun slugs on Roe and Fallow.

kakashka

rowa wrote: »

i think duchas is correct to insist on a minimum of .243 after all they have to consider the welfare of the animal , and .243 rifles and ammunition are no more expensive than .22-250 ones ,ireland as far as i know is the only country that allows the use of a .22 centrefire to shoot deer apart from the scottish who allow the use of .222 up for roe deer .

Duchas?NPWS i presume you mean rowa.
I think if(they dont so far) they did actually insist on a min of .243 then a lot of my friends would be in trouble this coming season.

daveob007

after whats just happened with the pistols we should all be pesamistic.
Any way regarding the .223 there are guidelines as set out by the fcp and all supers have to work within those.
your FOs opinions do not matter one bit as i was told the same by my sergeant when i applied for my 9mm pistol.
I still got it.
email www.nargc.ie des crofton is on the fcp and should be able to give you advice.