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2007-public-private pay gap was 48%!

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    #242
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    If that were the case they would have gone bust long since.
    Unless you're a bank or property developer.


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    #243
    dodgyme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    amacca wrote: »
    O.K. Hannibal, Ive drugged BA, I've arranged for Murdock to be released from his padded cell and for Templeton "Faceman" Peck to be checked in to the nearest std clinic

    If you've got a union problem, If no one else can help and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team..............

    glad you find it funny when the government is now borrowing €71m a day to meet the costs of running the public sector

    As a letter in th indo today states:

    It is sad and worrying to see the response of public service trade unions to the possibility of a reduction in their salaries and pensions, and their threat of strike action should such an eventuality occur......

    The sad aspect of recent developments is that the public service .. seems oblivious to the new facts of economic life and is intent on circling the wagons to defend a hopeless situation. In the process it will make an extremely difficult position infinitely worse.

    -> elephants and new and reality


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    #244
    amacca
    Registered Users Posts: 6,841 ✭✭✭amacca


    dodgyme wrote: »
    glad you find it funny when the government is now borrowing €71m a day to meet the costs of running the public sector

    As a letter in th indo today states:

    It is sad and worrying to see the response of public service trade unions to the possibility of a reduction in their salaries and pensions, and their threat of strike action should such an eventuality occur......

    The sad aspect of recent developments is that the public service .. seems oblivious to the new facts of economic life and is intent on circling the wagons to defend a hopeless situation. In the process it will make an extremely difficult position infinitely worse.

    -> elephants and new and reality

    Try not get your no doubt tightly fitting knickers in a twist!

    Yet again you are assuming things about me. My post does not mean I find the level of government borrowing funny so please dont attempt to tar me with that brush.

    You misquoted me in your previous post,you brought up the A-Team reference first and you snipped out a section I consider vital to the whole debate (hence the plan coming together I presume)


    ....only that would not be my plan its entirety ---why are you leaving out the bit about the high to very high net worth individuals taking their fair share --- not more of the pain by the way, just the same proportion in tax that other workers pay, no more loop holes, no more back doors etc...why are you leaving the reform bit out...public and private?


    btw I was simply responding in kind to your misquote of me which involved the following strangeness “So why may this happen.. ”


    which was hard to interpret to say the least! Stop trying to put me on a side of the debate I'm not on. If you want die hard public sector/no surrender types to butt heads with there are plenty available for you to harass without misrepresentation etc, you got burned, put some ointment on it and live to fight another day, don't keep coming back for more.


    I simply dont subscribe to the all public servants are evil overpaid monsters and the unions which defend their rights must be utterly destroyed by whatever means necessary camp, I think this is an extremist view and I dont believe the baby should be thrown out with the bathwater........... just get over it already.


    -> snakes in the grass and reality and check and mate.









    Your misrepresentation along with misquote is included below for posterity.





    dodgyme wrote: »
    Originally Posted by amacca viewpost.gif
    Its certainly a possibility. The ordinary anythings always seems to bear the brunt of the extraordinary anythings mistakes first.
    If they do continue to raise taxes on the majority it will be a killer..
    So why may this happen..
    Pay cuts should happen (not to the degree some posters on this thread seem to be advocating imo) along with a whole hell of a lot of other reforms or with a cast iron commitment to undertake these reforms.




    Oh and as BA would say, you better drink your milk fool. Youll need good strong bones when you grow up.


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    #245
    dodgyme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    amacca wrote: »
    ...why are you leaving the reform bit out...public and private?.

    The private sector need reform now?
    amacca wrote: »
    If you want die hard public sector/no surrender ..
    What are you on about seriously with the 'no surrender', your not related to Ian paisley?
    amacca wrote: »
    I simply dont subscribe to the all public servants are evil overpaid monsters and the unions which defend their rights must be utterly destroyed by whatever means necessary..

    now we all know thats not going to happen. Cant see the public servants begging on merrion sq can you?
    amacca wrote: »
    -> snakes in the grass and reality and check and mate...

    well in your case probably more 'snakes and ladders' I'd say than 'chess'


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    #246
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    dodgyme wrote: »
    The private sector need reform now?
    Certainly. How many billion is being spent bailing out private sector banks and property developers, saving their businesses and mansions?


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    #247
    asdasd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭asdasd


    You do realise that the private sector is not just bankers, dont you?

    ( I am going to put that in a text clipping file just for NewDubliner)


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    #248
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    asdasd wrote: »
    You do realise that the private sector is not just bankers, dont you?
    Yes, it also includes property developers and speculators. We could also include a cartel or two & companies that ause their market dominance. There's plenty to clean up. Joe public is hammered with taxes and over-charging.

    Your point is?


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    #249
    dodgyme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    Certainly. How many billion is being spent bailing out private sector banks and property developers, saving their businesses and mansions?

    The private sector is not one single thing and alot of the issues with the banks etc was the regulator(public sector) not doing its job,possibly because it didnt have the laws/staff but thats for a different day. I think its rich that we reach the conclusion that the disparate units that the private sector is from perhaps the local shop to the SME need reform. The dole queue is unfortunate reform due to lack of competitivenes fuelled by FF policies.

    Interesting to say the developers who had there cosy cartel with the politicians are private sector. Private sector workers have taken the brunt of the recession and now you include these lads with the architect or engineer on the dole?


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    #250
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    dodgyme wrote: »
    The private sector is not one single thing
    Neither is the public sector. But we should agree that the bad bits of both should be tackled rather than tarring everyone with the same brush?


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    #251
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    I think its rich that we reach the conclusion that the disparate units that the private sector is from perhaps the local shop to the SME need reform.

    It is equally rich to say that the same prescription is needed for the public sector from Leitrim council manual workers to the Virus Reference laboratory.


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    #252
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    Certainly. How many billion is being spent bailing out private sector banks and property developers, saving their businesses and mansions?

    They should be left go to the wall like other failed businesses. I find it ironic that it's the head of the public sector (ie the government) that is pushing the bail out.


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    #253
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    Diarmuid wrote: »
    They should be left go to the wall like other failed businesses. I find it ironic that it's the head of the public sector (ie the government) that is pushing the bail out.
    And that loss-making, private-sector controlled media is giving more space to stories pushing for public-sector pay cuts than to investigation of the proposed NAMA swindle and bank bail out.


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    #254
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    Joe public is hammered with taxes and over-charging.
    And supporting a public service which is probably the highest paid in the world, according to c.s.o. statistics etc....certainly its a lot higher paid than the private sector in Ireland, even though it does not have the same perks ( still subsidised pension, job security, shorter working week etc etc )


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    #255
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    jimmmy wrote: »
    And supporting a public service which is probably the highest paid in the world, according to c.s.o. statistics etc...

    I note some slight progress here: "probably the highest paid in the world".

    The next good step would for jimmmy to refine his use of "according to c.s.o. statistics" to avoid making the implication that the CSO has produced any report that compares Irish PS pay with that of other states.


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    #256
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    I note some slight progress here: "probably the highest paid in the world".

    There is a seperate thread on this in "politics". Our statistics on p.s. pay are freely available from our c.s.o., and have been compared with many other countries. Its quite easy to google the statistics department for whatever country you want. No public service in the world has been found yet to have as high an average wage as the Irish public service.

    As said on another thread " Not very surprising, when Cowen is higher paid than the prime minister of the bigger, industrialised countries like Germany, UK, France, Japan etc, and when the govt pays the head of our Central bank more than any other Central banker in the world earns. I provided the figures for that on another thread. Going down the list of public servants, its interesting to compare the pay of primary teachers in 2007 with 15 years experience. In Ireland it was 38,340, In the Netherlands it was 32,270, in Norway its 26,370, in Portugal it was 25,340, in Sweden it was 23,250 and in France it was 23,100. This is according to a table on page 96 of the October issue of Business Plus magazine, available now in your newsagents.

    Its not because teachers work longer hours in Ireland ; our school holidays etc are amongst the longest in the world. eg the OECD average is 1200 hours worked per year, in Ireland its 735.wink.gif


    If the govt cheques start bouncing here, which is the highest paid country for the p.s ? Ireland is the highest known yet, but there are a few countries it is difficult to get statistics on eg some of the African countries. Is'nt it nice to know our p.s. are champions of something / nobody has challenged them yet ?"


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    #257
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    Certainly. How many billion is being spent bailing out private sector banks and property developers, saving their businesses and mansions?

    I think your anti-bank petulance is wearing thin.

    Everyone wants the criminals held to account properly.. but you are acting like a lazy-socialist weasle... wanting the successful of this country to carry you...

    What do you have to say to the 99% of successful people who were not culpable in the financila fiasco... The business owners, employers, tech-sector entrepeneurs??

    You want them to foot the bill for your ridiculous, union-grabbed salary!


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    #258
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    And that loss-making, private-sector controlled media is giving more space to stories pushing for public-sector pay cuts than to investigation of the proposed NAMA swindle and bank bail out.

    Are you joking? The press was full of NAMA only a few weeks ago. You are seriously blinkered.


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    #259
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    optocynic wrote: »
    I think your anti-bank petulance is wearing thin.

    Everyone wants the criminals held to account properly.. but you are acting like a lazy-socialist weasle... wanting the successful of this country to carry you...

    What do you have to say to the 99% of successful people who were not culpable in the financila fiasco... The business owners, employers, tech-sector entrepeneurs??

    You want them to foot the bill for your ridiculous, union-grabbed salary!

    Here Here


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    #260
    dodgyme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    Neither is the public sector. But we should agree that the bad bits of both should be tackled rather than tarring everyone with the same brush?

    the public sector is much more of homogenous then the private sector, in terms of salary, scales pensions, unions etc. Its chalk and cheese really. The public sector is paid for by the other sectors. The public sector started this benchmarking process which to me is idiotic, the idea you can benchmark someone who essentially on the whole cannot be fired against a private sector worker who can be is crazy. The benchmarking lead to explosive wages for a sector where there is no market or risk for the individual. I think that is important in that the cost is now too high and we need to cut them significantly.


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