Wayne Dohertys murder

walshb

I don't think anyone is against a fair trial. I am all for this, but when found guilty, to see these scum then get sent away to serve pissy sentences in
environments that allow them to watch tv, play pool, work out and get an education is an absolute kick in the teeth for the families and the decent
folks in society. We need tougher and harder sentences and the LIFE sentence is not enough, as it does not mean life in the vast majority
of cases

Joe C

dr.bollocko wrote: »

There's always some sort of dark sinister plot that them darn lefties are turning a blind eye to eh?

Wtf are you blathering on about ?

DTrotter

Uncle Arthur wrote: »

welcome to left wing liberal land aka boards!:(

If only Ireland was like Iran or Burma, fingers crossed.

alanceltic

RIP Wayne

A young man robbed of his life
A Wife robbed of her husband
A mother & father robbed of their son
Siblings robbed of their brother
Friends robbed of their pal
A community robbed of a good neighbour
and more importantly 2 young children robbed of any chance they had of sharing their young lives with their dad. Its just heartbreaking to think of how difficult things will be for his family but i hope they take comfort from knowing the person who he was.

A nicer lad you wouldnt meet.
A gentleman.

I pray that his family have the courage to deal with this tragedy in the dark days ahead, his life and the lives of other innocent irish people who have died at the hands of such evil will be in vain unless we as a society can deal with these cowardly b@stards.

johnnyskeleton

Des wrote: »

Are you saying that people who go out with guns, with the intent of harming others, deserve "due process".

People who are accused of going out with guns with the intent of harming others do.

johnnyskeleton

Des wrote: »

But their resources are so tied up in the protection of scumbags, that it took them three hours to come to my mothers house when it was broken into and all her jewelery robbed.

They are helping the wrong people.

Some people don't deserve help.

Just like those damn doctors who spend all their time in emergency rooms trying to resuscitate people who are nearly dead - I'm alive and have a headache, why do I have to wait until they're finished with the cardiac arrests and overdoses before I can get some aspirin.

An Fear Aniar

tbh wrote: »

Grand. Move to Tehran. When your principals are shared by the majority of the population, we'll do it your way.

Principles.

If you're going to let Irish society go to the dogs because of them, at least spell them correctly.

.

An Fear Aniar

Joe C wrote: »

Cold rationality should never ever put you on the side of criminal scumbags, detachment from reality might though.

This is a good one. :cool:

.

Guy:Incognito

thelordofcheese wrote: »

At the risk of contradicting myself, man better men that you or I have cautioned against such a shortsighted approach.

With good reason.

Did those better men fix the world yet?

smelltheglove

I havent gone through this thread but just wanted to comment. I knew Wayne, he was close to my family and it is heartbreaking what has happened. His wife does nto deserve to go through this, she has already lost both of her brothers.

Wayne was a very genuine, helpful, lovely bloke. He was honest and hardworking, he looked out for all of those around him, he helped me out on occasions, he worked with my dad for a long long time. He was mad about his kids and his wife Karen.

Wayne had a strong dislike for scum bags. He was fearless, as he has been described in the press, this is true. He was not frightened of anyone, he was a strong person. Would Wayne want his friends and family resorting to that level? Wayne's family have said they do not want retaliation. I am sure they would find it hard to hold themselves back but should people not respect their wishes? Has Waynes wife not been through enough already in the last few years, and this on top of it? Do their wishes account for nothing?

Whatever happens, nothing will bring Wayne back, every morning his lovely wife will wake up without him, his kids without their dad, IRA or court will not change this......

P.C.

I have not read this whole thread, but I do have a question:

Why did so many people vote to have the death sentence abolished back in 2001?

I am not saying that it needs to be used, but now that it is no longer an option...
the threat of using it is also gone.
You could have sentenced a person to death, and then left them in prison for life.

Now, they get sentenced to life, and are out in 10 to 12 years. :eek::mad:

thelordofcheese

johnny_knoxvile wrote: »

My dear boy, I would never attempt such skulduggery...

You are of course, entirely correct, it was far too crass to be even called an attempt.

Ajos wrote: »

I believe that's his point. Of course he wouldn't be. Nor would I, or anybody else. That's precisely why the victim's family and friends don't and shouldn't have any part in the process of dispensing justice. Justice by definition is impartial. It is not about revenge.

cheers ajos, you're spot on.

I know i've done things in the heat of the moment that are, in hindsight, fucking stupid. everyone has. it human nature.

I'd hate for the Justice system to be influenced by the same kind of boneheaded rage, it's a recipe for disaster.

stekelly wrote:

Did those better men fix the world yet?

Not fix, because that's a stupid idea.
But you could make a good case for them having made the world a better place.

dfx-

Some great posts in amongst the left wing nonsense

gurramok wrote: »

Death penalty for joyriders who seriously injure/kill after the event.

To stop them on the streets screeching around, if they fail to heal warnings, shoot them. Those who heal warnings and stop, serious prison sentences.

I want our kids to be able to play safely on the streets, thats my leaning.


http://www.praguepost.com/print/1584-lax-laws-spur-car-theft.html

Czech Rep has 10 times the rate of Germany, 1800 cars stolen in Germany so far this year.http://www.praguepost.com/print/1584-lax-laws-spur-car-theft.html

Irish stats were 12,000-13,000 a year, now nearly 9,000. i make thats 2.5 times the German rate
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/boyracers-replace-joyriding-car-thieves-1379086.html

Its obvious the Germans are doing something right and that is the deterrent.

It seems this passed by most...very interesting..

Also going by some posts, they could stand by the killer as he pulls the trigger and still say "there's a due process to go through to determine if he's guilty".

Melaniemeep

seamus wrote: »

As time goes on, we can see them getting cockier and cockier and killing people for no reason. They will fnck up soon enough and kill someone who the entire community loves and the community will throw them to the dogs.

This has now happened, I am originally from Hartstown having moved out of the area 4 years ago. The Doherty family have always been very well respected and liked within the community and Waynes death is a shock to all. We had been friends and although I hadn't really seen him since leaving Hartstown it is devastating to hear of his death and how it happened. He really was a much liked man in the area and one of the most decent people you could come across. As stated in the papers he was not known by police and was somebody that the younger community looked up to. He would go out of his way to help people out and keep trouble from taking place, as his terrible death reflects. The whole Hartstown community along with the rest of our country have been outraged and deeply saddened at this senseless and tragic murder and soon enough whoever is hiding the thugs involved will come to realise what they are doing and how it is no longer acceptable. May the fact that his death has highlighted the major problems within our little island and raised many questions to our government and to all of us as to how we are going to deal with this growing gang crime be of some sort of comfort to his family. My deepest sympathies go out to his family and friends and the rest of the shocked community. And I also extend my utmost respect to his father for his brave words of encouragement to take back control and order in our neighbour hoods not through violence and retaliation but by not being afraid to name these mindless thugs trying to take over and turn them in.

Smyth

It's frightening to read some of the comments here.
The solution lies in the justice system, not in the holster of a garda.

For short swift "justice" (read fear), see Salem witch trials.

It didn't end well there...

tbh

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

Principles.

If you're going to let Irish society go to the dogs because of them, at least spell them correctly.

.

tbh wrote: »

I just got it. I'm appalled at myself:) my apologies.

The principal is your pal. I meant, of course, principles.

:rolleyes:

Fink Goddie

RIP_Wayne wrote: »

You just spoke my mind. I don't know how anyone can actually be standing up for people like these murdering scumbags - These people murdered someone, why do you think they have rights. The person who done this was given the oppertunity to come forward to the gardai but he chose to deny this 'right' and go on the run. But I suppose it is his right to do that too?!
I pray to god he is caught soon and I pray to god they throw the key away!!!!!!

I totally agree, as long as we have people like that there'll be no justice for the innocent victims.

Fink Goddie

Keith C wrote: »

Hope your as chilled out if it happens your child or your parent etc...

Exactly the point i made earlier, and these are the very people that wouldnt be.

Puddleduck

I would agree with the death penalty but only for extreme cases ie serial murderers that have admitted to their crimes.

I think the deterrant should be prison. If caught the sentancing should be done quickly, none of this arsing round for months and months. Prison shouldnt be the cushy number it is now. It should be hard. Visits should be kept to the bare minimum if any for serious offenders. There should be no luxuries. Someone who commits murder shouldnt be able to go somewhere to get a 5 star chef cooking breakfast, lunch and dinner. No chill out rooms, no playstations, nothing. Prison guards should have more rights than those they are guarding.

Id also arm the Gardai, bullets are bullets regardless of what they are fired from. I agree with another poster that said if you are known to the gardai you should be put into detention.

A serious overhaul of the justice system is needed. Right now the one we have is failing.

walshb

Arming the gardai is not necessary to tackle these scum. It's not like they
are roaming the streets with guns shooting and maiming. They are selecting
their targets, getting their guns, killing and fleeing. What is needed
is proper garda investigation, surveillance, tough sentences on conviction.
Clamping down and introducing mandatory 30 year sentences if
convicted of aggravated crime. No ifs, buts, you are found guilty
of a serious crime, 30 years minimum!

The current sentences are in no way a deterrent against
serious crime. Why do we have so much drug dealing here?

It is because the dealers and importers know that if caught and
convicted, they are likely to receive a pissy jail term.

How about a 30 year term if convicted of importing/dealing Class A
drugs, 25 years for Class B and 10 years for Class C. Mandatory and minimum!

Now, should a person plead guilty and not fight
the charge, there should maybe be grounds for
a 25 percent reduction in the sentence.

So, 30 becomes 25 and 20 becomes 15 and so on
They are still harsh and at least it will send the clear
message to anyone who is thinking about either dealing
or importing drugs to Ireland.

As it stands, the reward for dealing is a lot more inviting
than the punishment to NOT

bernardo mac

Leading lawyers and solicitors who object to the new anti gang legislation do not live in areas close to where criminal gangs operate.These objectors say the new laws will bring shame upon our nation before International Courts of Human Rights.Better be shamed than dead;better risk embarrassment than be humiliated and condemned to exist on a daily basis,in imminent danger of being shot, assaulted,firebombed if you object to criminal activity,if you try to protect your family or a neighbour,if you tell the Gardai about what's going on.The Gardai are already stretched and cannot provide adequate protection and security.Yes,fully armed state protection is needed in some areas where lawyers and solicitors do not reside.The majority of people living in or near "gangland" cannot afford to move to a secure suburb;unless, one is in fact exceptionally and inexplicably well off.If one is feared, and associates with a rough element one will stay.And if you are one of these privileged people,last mentioned, and in danger of being arrested by the Gardai,you can afford to hire the best legal mind,or know how to seek free legal aid to protect your Human Rights.This is tragic,this country is in economic recession but is really in a much deeper crisis of public trust and confidence in our courts and laws to protect the law abiding citizen.

tbh

Puddleduck wrote: »

I would agree with the death penalty but only for extreme cases ie serial murderers that have admitted to their crimes.

I understand your logic, but why would anyone admit to their crime if they knew they were going to be executed?

smelltheglove

I am not sure about arming the gardai, maybe they should be armed. Put it this way, the man who was in trouble did not have faith in the gardai to protect him but he had faith in Wayne........ doesnt that sum it up really, what could the gards have done if tehy were there when these guys turned up to shoot and kill? Maybe Wayne would not have been shot but one of the Gards would have.

If Gardai were present with guns however it may have been different. All these things are hindsight though and nothing will bring back Wayne but if proper adjustments are made this may prevent another family going through this pain.

Puddleduck

tbh wrote: »

I understand your logic, but why would anyone admit to their crime if they knew they were going to be executed?

Serial killers generally are sick in the head. Some of them are proud of their killings. I suppose by extension you could say if caught with the victims body or whatever. Real solid evidence.

thelordofcheese

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Exactly the point i made earlier, and these are the very people that wouldnt be.

And, if you'd be paying attention, the point was totally missed by you earlier.

thelordofcheese

Fink Goddie wrote: »

I totally agree, as long as we have people like that there'll be no justice for the innocent victims.

you keep using that word, i do not think it means what you think it means.

Fink Goddie

thelordofcheese wrote: »

And, if you'd be paying attention, the point was totally missed by you earlier.

Nope i made the point earlier and then it was made again.
I see your posts are still in favour of the scumbags, still pleading for their rights.

Fink Goddie

thelordofcheese wrote: »

you keep using that word, i do not think it means what you think it means.

You havent shown any examples of Justice that matches up to the gravity of the crime.

Your posts are pro scum!

Pace2008

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Nope i made the point earlier and then it was made again.
I see your posts are still in favour of the scumbags, still pleading for their rights.

And you're still creating these false dilemmas, suggesting that anyone who's in favour of due process and against the death penalty is somehow condoning the actions of these people. Based on your comments in this thread it seems apparent that you have no idea how to construct an argument and don't have the ability to debate this topic.

Using your broken logic I can deduce that since you believe that one waives their human rights by committing the act of murder, you are against human rights and by extension against humanity itself.

thelordofcheese

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Nope i made the point earlier and then it was made again.
I see your posts are still in favour of the scumbags, still pleading for their rights.

And you stunningly missed the point, both of you.

I can't promise i'd be calm if someone in my family was murdered, and i acknowledge that i'd likely do something stupid, given the oppertunity.

the point, you continue to miss (and it's one of many. you're dodging these things like neo) is that i want the law of the land to protect it's citizens from my rage and the poor decision making it would result in.
IF i were the victim i'd be in no position to render a fair judgement because i'd be angry.
It's a retarded idea to let people decide the fate of those that have wronged them, it's WHY we have a justice system in the first place.

Fink Goddie wrote: »

You havent shown any examples of Justice that matches up to the gravity of the crime.

Your posts are pro scum!

if that's how you like to paint me, go ahead. I make no appologies. for believeing that everybody has basic immuatble rights, if that makes me "pro-scum" to you then that's cool.
I don't really give your opinion much weight.
Because the bit you forget in your hissy fit of moral outrage and outright lack of reasoning is the rights i want 'scum' to have are the same rights i want you to have.

You can't strip someone of their rights because your angry and want a simple solution, because if you do that you also remove your own
No due process for scum, no due process for you.

Is this becoming clear or do i need to put on a puppet show?