Wayne Dohertys murder

gazzer

Did anybody hear the interview with the father of Wayne Doherty http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0706/dohertyw.html this morning on Newstalk?

It appears the guy was killed just because he confronted a gang that had parked a car outside his parents front gate. Also on the show was the father of Roy Collins (the guy who was shot in Limerick a few months back). Both families must be going through hell.

seamus

It's this kind of thing which will eventually turn the tide against these scumbags. They more or less get away with it because either people are too afraid to say anything or because the people who know information think, "Ah that's Bridey's daughter's little fella. He's not a bad kid really, just fell into a bad crowd. I couldn't do that to Bridey".

As time goes on, we can see them getting cockier and cockier and killing people for no reason. They will fnck up soon enough and kill someone who the entire community loves and the community will throw them to the dogs.

kmick

Id like to think this will be the beginning of the end for those gangs. I think it will help push through that dodgy legislation.

RIP poor guy.

Drummerboy2

Really tragic. He leaves behind a wife and two young children, who will miss their father for the rest of their lives.

walshb

Horrendous and despicable and the worst thing is that this will
not change a single thing. It will be all forgotten in a day or two just
like the murder of Donna Cleary and that young plumber, Anthony
Campbell, Shane Goeghan and Collins from Limerick and countless
others. Anyone who believes this will change much is a little
naive. I wish it would, but I won't be holding my breath!

PCros

Its times like this when I would love to see the Garda response unit show a bit of authority and start knocking off a few of these scumbags....prison is too good for them.

gurramok

gazzer wrote: »

Did anybody hear the interview with the father of Wayne Doherty http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0706/dohertyw.html this morning on Newstalk?

It appears the guy was killed just because he confronted a gang that had parked a car outside his parents front gate. Also on the show was the father of Roy Collins (the guy who was shot in Limerick a few months back). Both families must be going through hell.

I think its more complicated that that.

They(neighbours and people involved in previous argument) were expecting a gang to arrive to take out a man involved in the argument.

The victim knew they would be coming and did the terrible mistake of confronting them and look what happens.

Its not just a simple matter of confronting a parked car outside someone's house, there was tension involved in this case locally.

All in all, it does indeed show that it simply ain't safe to be unarmed when dodgy people come knocking around.

Hopefully the gardai will have leads to whoever was involved in the previous argument of the christening and lift them of the streets for good.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gardai-hunting-five-murder-suspects-1808981.html
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/tell-karen-and-the--children-i-love-them-1808977.html

SoWatchaWant

PCros wrote: »

Its times like this when I would love to see the Garda response unit show a bit of authority and start knocking off a few of these scumbags....prison is too good for them.

Are you having a laugh?

_blank_

SoWatchaWant wrote: »

Are you having a laugh?

He's right.

Putting them in prison means ordinary, decent law abiding taxpaying public are paying for their upkeep.

I am not happy with that, and would happily have these absolute scumbags shot on sight.

Fúcking animals deserve nothing better.

So take your bleeding heart elsewhere, the time for hippy-happy-clappy, "oh they had bad childhoods" is over.

Anyone who goes out with a gun deserves to die by the gun.

Fink Goddie

I totally agree that jail is too good for them, and especially when life in prison in this country only means about 12 years.

Why does everyone always think of the criminals rights instead of the victims and their families rights.

PCros

SoWatchaWant wrote: »

Are you having a laugh?

No I'm not....please elaborate?

_blank_

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Why does everyone always think of the criminals rights instead of the victims and their families rights.

Because this board is populated with left-wing bleeding hearts.

Makes me sick.

John Mason

Des wrote: »

Because this board is populated with left-wing bleeding hearts.

Makes me sick.

You're my hero

saviourgirl

SoWatchaWant wrote: »

Are you having a laugh?

I smell a naive idealist......

thelordofcheese

Des wrote: »

Because this board is populated with left-wing bleeding hearts.

Makes me sick.

Blah-blah-blah same shit, different day.

I wonder if anyone can make the case for capital punishment without resorting to the old "bleeding heart" trope.

I suspect not.

_blank_

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

You're my hero

I know sweetcheeks

xxx

bush Baby

Call me right wing but...............

I wish we could hire Halliburton to come in and go through a Garda listing of known scumbags, do a bit of weapons collecting while they're at it.

Might help concentrate a few minds round about these parts.

tbh

Des wrote: »

Because this board is populated with left-wing bleeding hearts.

Makes me sick.

bull****. If we start going round knocking off the scummers, we're just as bad as them. It's easy to have principals when no-one is challenging them,

We have a justice system, and due process, because it's the sign of a civilized society. It's an easy solution to start saying "let's round up the vermin and shoot them", but it's not practical, outside of a fundamentalist society anyway.



Hard cases make bad law, that's a fact. We already have the laws we need. We just need to start enforcing them. More guards, more prisons, more tax to pay for those.


Des, remember your mate who had the hassles with the guards coming round to the wrong address? Imagine they'd fired a shotgun through the door, knocked off your mate and then said "hands up, we got it wrong, but we thought he was a scumbag".

ronnie3585

thelordofcheese wrote: »

I wonder if anyone can make the case for capital punishment without resorting to the old "bleeding heart" trope.

I suspect not.

Ah, I think he did...

Des wrote: »

Anyone who goes out with a gun deserves to die by the gun.

_blank_

tbh wrote: »

We have a justice system, and due process,

...that sees a "life" sentence equal ~12 Years inside.

Which we have to pay for.

How much does a bullet cost?

tbh

Des wrote: »

...that sees a "life" sentence equal ~12 Years inside.

Which we have to pay for.

How much does a bullet cost?

My principals. It's not a price I want to pay.

thelordofcheese

ronnie3585 wrote: »

Ah, I think he did...

An idiom is not an argument, it just ocasionally sounds like one.

Spiritoftheseventies

Des wrote: »

...that sees a "life" sentence equal ~12 Years inside.

Which we have to pay for.

How much does a bullet cost?

wonder is crime problem down successive governements failure to crack down on drugs problem in eighties when Gregory was pretty much a lone crusader. is it coming back to haunt them now.

_blank_

tbh wrote: »

My principals. It's not a price I want to pay.

My principles are different.

I'd like to feel safe in the city I live in.

At any price.

Time Magazine

tbh wrote: »

My principals. It's not a price I want to pay.

You really are one of these "it's all in the education system" heads, huh?

tbh

Des wrote: »

My principles are different.

I'd like to feel safe in the city I live in.

At any price.

Grand. Move to Tehran. When your principals are shared by the majority of the population, we'll do it your way.

thelordofcheese

Des wrote: »

My principles are different.

I'd like to feel safe in the city I live in.

At any price.

At the risk of contradicting myself, man better men that you or I have cautioned against such a shortsighted approach.

With good reason.

tbh

The Economist wrote: »

You really are one of these "it's all in the education system" heads, huh?

If you want to reduce my point of view to a meaningless, trite comment - by all means, hack away. If you're trying to ridicule me because I don't think the Guards should be able to execute the citizens of this state, I'm not going to try to change your mind.

Time Magazine

tbh wrote: »

If you want to reduce my point of view to a meaningless, trite comment - by all means, hack away. If you're trying to ridicule me because I don't think the Guards should be able to execute the citizens of this state, I'm not going to try to change your mind.

I'm making a joke about your spelling

tbh

I just got it. I'm appalled at myself:) my apologies.

The principal is your pal. I meant, of course, principles.

_blank_

tbh wrote: »

Grand. Move to Tehran. When your principals are shared by the majority of the population, we'll do it your way.

Are you saying that people who go out with guns, with the intent of harming others, deserve "due process".

Due process which sees them back on the streets the next day, doing the same thing.

A Garda force that "protects" these scumbags by informing them that their life is in danger?

No teebs, that day has passed. When they start murdering innocent people, it's time for a change.

I had no problem when they were just killing each other. Let them at it.

But when ordinary decent people are targetted, it's time for something drastic to be done. Send out a strong message to these subhuman scumbags.

They don't deserve anything else.

The only thing they seem to understand is the law of the gun.

We need a modern-day Lugs Brannigan. Someone who is not afraid to put these **** in their place.

tbh

Des wrote: »

Are you saying that people who go out with guns, with the intent of harming others, deserve "due process".

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Due process which sees them back on the streets the next day, doing the same thing.

Well, what "same thing" are we talking about? Murder? Because I doubt that you'd get a murderer being bailed, to be fair.

A Garda force that "protects" these scumbags by informing them that their life is in danger?

Yes. The Gardai cannot decide who to help, and who not to help.

No teebs, that day has passed. When they start murdering innocent people, it's time for a change.

I agree, des, 100%. The change, however, imo, is not to arm the guards and let them start plugging away at the scummers. We cannot let the criminals dictate the actions of the rest of the population.

gurramok

tbh wrote: »

We have a justice system, and due process, because it's the sign of a civilized society. It's an easy solution to start saying "let's round up the vermin and shoot them", but it's not practical, outside of a fundamentalist society anyway.

Justice system has failed.

Try living in one of the affected areas for a change to see whats it like.

Hard cases make bad law, that's a fact. We already have the laws we need. We just need to start enforcing them. More guards, more prisons, more tax to pay for those.

Hence the failure. If the justice system was working properly, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

_blank_

tbh wrote: »

Yes. The Gardai cannot decide who to help, and who not to help.

But their resources are so tied up in the protection of scumbags, that it took them three hours to come to my mothers house when it was broken into and all her jewelery robbed.

They are helping the wrong people.

Some people don't deserve help.

walshb

Des wrote: »

I had no problem when they were just killing each other. Let them at it.

.

Well, that is the damn problem. They let them kill themselves instead of tackling the issue BEFORE the innocents died. Ireland is great at solving problems AFTER folks die. If the Gradai and the authorities were firmer from day 1, it would not have come to this. So, to say let them kill each other is not the answer. Nobody has the right to take anyone's life in such fashion

bush Baby

Hence the failure. If the justice system was working properly, we wouldn't be having this conversation

SPOT ON Gurramok, spot on....

tbh

gurramok wrote: »

Justice system has failed.

Try living in one of the affected areas for a change to see whats it like.

I live in Swords. I've seen a kid get shot in the back.

Hence the failure. If the justice system was working properly, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Your solution to the problem is to start executing people?

_blank_

walshb wrote: »

Well, that is the damn problem. They let them kill themselves instead of tackling the issue BEFORE the innocents died. Ireland is great at solving problems AFTER folks die. If the Gradai and the authorities were firmer from day 1, it would not have come to this. So, to say let them kill each other is not the answer. Nobody has the right to take anyone's life in such fashion

I have no qualms, I feel nothing but happiness when I hear of the latest gangland killing. Fúck them. I'm glad they are dead. Tey aren't people, they are animals.

But when innocent, law abiding people, are getting shot dead, then it' a problem for me.

_blank_

tbh wrote: »

Your solution to the problem is to start executing people?

Yep, shoot them straight through the heart.

inforfun

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Blah-blah-blah same shit, different day.

I wonder if anyone can make the case for capital punishment without resorting to the old "bleeding heart" trope.

I suspect not.

If there is rock solid evidence (lets say, a murder was recorded by cctv, a dozen witnesses telling all the same thing they saw, that kind of evidence) i see no reason why a murderer should stay alive.
If someone is prepared to kill, they should expect to pay the ultimate price for it, i.e the death penalty.

Like in this case, if they went on the hunt for someone they had a problem with, bring a shotgun and kill someone, then a few years in prison is not paying nearly enough for the crime.

thelordofcheese

Des wrote: »

Are you saying that people who go out with guns, with the intent of harming others, deserve "due process".

yes. they are citizens of the state and deserve the same due process as you'd get were you arrested. All are equal before the law or none of us are.

Des wrote: »

I had no problem when they were just killing each other. Let them at it.

I love this reasoning, it's really shows how easy it is for some people to embody the very traits of the scumbags they profess to hate.

Des wrote: »

We need a modern-day Lugs Brannigan. Someone who is not afraid to put these **** in their place.

We never needed Lugs. He was just a scumbag with a badge, which really begs the question, are you just looking for someone "on your side" to just lash out for your impotent rage, or do you actually want justice.

tbh

Des wrote: »

Yep, shoot them straight through the heart.

Ok, well let's just hope it's not the same cops who called to your mates house for 18 months, despite him telling them the person they were looking for wasn't there. Lets hope it's not one of the helpful posters who were so dismissive of you when you went looking for help. I applaud your open mindedness that you are now willing to give them carte blanch to shoot anyone they think needs it

walshb

Des wrote: »

I have no qualms, I feel nothing but happiness when I hear of the latest gangland killing. Fúck them. I'm glad they are dead. Tey aren't people, they are animals.

But when innocent, law abiding people, are getting shot dead, then it' a problem for me.

I am not saying I have much sympathy either, but allowing it will only
result in some innocents dying, so we must crack down hard before this occurs.
BTW, you do not know the individual circumstances of all the gang
land deaths. There have been plenty that have been gunned down because they simply owed a small amount of cash to a person. Is this something we should be applauding?

biko

The Economist wrote: »

You really are one of these "it's all in the education system" heads, huh?

Nope, just bad parenting and (maybe more important) bad surroundings when they grew up. This does not excuse them though!
But I'd rather see them shipped off to cut turf on the islands and then be relocated to another town when they get back into society again.
If you imprison them and then let them back into the same surroundings they'll just re-offend.

It's funny how some here won't even give them human status, the last few days I've read that they're vermin, dogs, animals, ... No, they're just bad people, but still people.
/my opinion

thelordofcheese

Des wrote: »

I have no qualms, I feel nothing but happiness when I hear of the latest gangland killing. Fúck them. I'm glad they are dead. Tey aren't people, they are animals.

But when innocent, law abiding people, are getting shot dead, then it' a problem for me.

That's just chilling. remind me, you're one of the 'good guys' right, because right now, i'm not seeing a lot of difference between you and scum you claim to hate.

Fizman

tbh wrote: »

Well, what "same thing" are we talking about? Murder? Because I doubt that you'd get a murderer being bailed, to be fair.
.

Look at that piece of sh1t scumbag in Galway who basically got away with murder on a stag night in Ayr square, amongst scores of other offenses.

He was still out roaming the streets, and the filthy kunt got his hands on that poor foreign girl.

gurramok

tbh wrote: »

I live in Swords. I've seen a kid get shot in the back.

Elaborate. Was the crime solved?

Was it a 'gangland' type or a domestic?

Your solution to the problem is to start executing people?

No, not as far as Des

I want them rounded up and when sentenced to life, not to be released after 12 years as after all 12 years to a 21yr old killer is nothing.

You live in Swords. I've lived in Finglas and between D4 land for years. Its like a different planet having a good police service and guess which area has had the better policing, i leave it to your imagination.

This is the third time I've known family of a shooting victim in Dublin and all three times the victim was not involved in drugs or crime - just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. It's insane. I've heard details that haven't been/won't be in the press and it's even scummier than what's been reported. These scumbags basically are above the law. The guards bury their heads in the sand and the community cowers in case they suffer the same fate as this poor guy. People think twice about being the good Samaritan now. It's a mess.

tbh

gurramok wrote: »

Elaborate. Was the crime solved?

Was it a 'gangland' type or a domestic?

It was. http://www.independent.ie/national-news/shot-boy-fighting-for-his-life-54701.html

I want them rounded up and when sentenced to life, not to be released after 12 years as after all 12 years to a 21yr old killer is nothing.

I agree, for whatever it's worth. There seems to be a thing here whereby if I say I don't want the state to have the power of life and death over it's citizens, then I want the crims to be able to do whatever they want.

You live in Swords. I've lived in Finglas and between D4 land for years. Its like a different planet having a good police service and guess which area has had the better policing, i leave it to your imagination.

I don't really see how that's relevant, to be honest. Does the fact that Finglas has a poor policing service support a shoot to kill policy?

Spiritoftheseventies

tbh wrote: »

It was. http://www.independent.ie/national-news/shot-boy-fighting-for-his-life-54701.html



I agree, for whatever it's worth. There seems to be a thing here whereby if I say I don't want the state to have the power of life and death over it's citizens, then I want the crims to be able to do whatever they want.



I don't really see how that's relevant, to be honest. Does the fact that Finglas has a poor policing service support a shoot to kill policy?

end of the day there has to be a measured response. CAB is the key there. confiscate their assets. where it hurts them the most

K-9

[quote=[Deleted User];61030135]This is the third time I've known family of a shooting victim in Dublin and all three times the victim was not involved in drugs or crime - just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. It's insane. I've heard details that haven't been/won't be in the press and it's even scummier than what's been reported. These scumbags basically are above the law. The guards bury their heads in the sand and the community cowers in case they suffer the same fate as this poor guy. People think twice about being the good Samaritan now. It's a mess.[/quote]

Unfortunately this seems to be the new problem. Before you could say let the courts deal with it. Now witnesses and jurors are being intimidated.