Rally for life

The_Minister

Did anyone see this today?

I wasn't in town so I missed it, but apparently several thousand people were at it. And apparently a group of pro-choicers turned up, with a small number of them shouting threats and doing nazi-salutes.

I'm surprised the media didn't cover this; I'd say that like the rest of us they just want to let that sleeping dog lie.

What was weird was that apparently those marching were predominantly young, and not old grannys.

Any eyewitnesses?

K4t

No. *aborts thread*

K-9

There'll always be a Youth Defence.

Thought I read recently the Company encompassing their various guises was winded up?

jumpguy

Love how ya assume we all live in Dublin. :P

You serious, a pro-Nazi protest in the city? You'd think it'd be broken up quickly with a team of snipers and bombers.

partyatmygaff

This people is why we do not drink 20 bottles of vodka and then go on boards to post nonsensical threads.


Let that be a lessont to all of you.


/Its the vodka kicking in I am sure.

The_Minister

partyatmygaff wrote: »

This people is why we do not drink 20 bottles of vodka and then go on boards to post nonsensical threads.


Let that be a lessont to all of you.


/Its the vodka kicking in I am sure.

Not drunk at all.
Was chatting to a facebook 'friend' a few minutes ago, and the above are the details he told me.
He's pro-life though, so I want confirmation.

jumpguy wrote: »

Love how ya assume we all live in Dublin. :P

You serious, a pro-Nazi protest in the city? You'd think it'd be broken up quickly with a team of snipers and bombers.

Not pro-nazi, pro-choice.
Just a few of them apparently.

jumpguy

Oh right yeah. I know what pro-choice means. Yeah. Yeah I do. Yeeeeah.

Yes. I do. Don't claim I don't, I do.

Actually, at first when I read it I thought it was something about abortion.

Whosbetter?

jumpguy wrote: »

Love how ya assume we all live in Dublin. :P

You serious, a pro-Nazi protest in the city? You'd think it'd be broken up quickly with a team of snipers and bombers.

Adolf Hitler................Not just there for the Nazi things in life.:)

Dennis the Stone

1

2

ronbyrne2005

So is it banning contraceptives march next saturday then?

The_Minister

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

So is it banning contraceptives march next saturday then?

I think they know they've lost that battle.

'I stand by the Republic' and all that lark.

Dennis the Stone

Kind of ironic if there were Nazi salutes, as apparently some members of Stormfront were in the march :pac:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?p=7051419

conchubhar1

how the fook is pro choice por nazi?

feckin pro lifers are so deluded if they dont reliase girls just head to the uk....


wow i hate those stomefront tits more than loyalists and orange order members - now that impressive

jumpguy

BigMentalDisease wrote: »

Kind of ironic if there were Nazi salutes, as apparently there were members of Stormfront in the march :pac:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?p=7051419

Woah it's like boards but with abit of a national socialist twist to it.

conchubhar1

jumpguy wrote: »

Woah it's like boards but with abit of a national socialist twist to it.

a bit of a wanker racist twist

The_Minister

conchubhar1 wrote: »

feckin pro lifers are so deluded if they dont reliase girls just head to the uk....

Of course they realise it, but they can't do anything about it.
Ireland can only make laws for Ireland, if someone wants to go abroad and do something that would be illegal here, but is illegal there, then generally speaking we can't stop them.
Right to travel and all that.


Just because something is legal in one country, and people from other countries go there to do that thing, doesn't mean that it must be legal in all countries.

The_Minister

Was just looking at Indymedia.

Is it bad that I laughed when I saw that one of the pro-choice, feminists groups was called

RAG

?

PrivateEye

Go to politics, where this belongs, join the debate there.

1: Nazi Salutes:

Google the name Justin Barrett. Todays rally was called by Youth Defence. They have links to the extreme-right. There were fascists there today no doubt, but don't think for a second its a mystery what side they were on.


2: Yoof Defence:

Famous for: The above mentioned clown, the fact they famously attacked protesters outside the Dail with Hurley stucks and cue-balls, their mad front-campaigns (Think Coir and the monkeys that warned you about Brussels) And the fact they will hold hands with ANYONE who wants to 'save the babies' (Justin once spoke at a neo-nazi rally in Germany, oh dear)

3: Fash Salutes

how the fook is pro choice por nazi?

Its not. There were PLENTY of people in the pro-choice counter-demo who have taken action against fascists in Ireland before, be it the Immigration Control Platform or some rotten apples in Youth Defence. Feminism and fascism can never go hand in hand obviously.


4: The England Issue

feckin pro lifers are so deluded if they dont reliase girls just head to the uk....

Yep. They export the problem, if they can't see it its not happening. Typical attitude. The Choice Ireland/Pro Choice leaflet today called for, among other things, more sexual education in schools, and no cuts to benefits/welfare so women didn't feel the need to have abortions. what did the other side to? They prayed (actually had a mass BEFORE the demo), called us 'Fagg0ts' (I was called all sorts of homophobic rubbish, which not even being gay I thought was quite funny to be honest!) and showed themselves for what they are.

http://www.indymedia.ie/cache/imagecache/local/attachments/jul2009/460_0___30_0_0_0_0_0_2._pl_img_2812.jpg
The Sisters Of Mercy themselves :rolleyes:

Normal Youth Defence rubbish, nothing to see har.

conchubhar1

The_Minister wrote: »

Of course they realise it, but they can't do anything about it.
Ireland can only make laws for Ireland, if someone wants to go abroad and do something that would be illegal here, but is illegal there, then generally speaking we can't stop them.
Right to travel and all that.


Just because something is legal in one country, and people from other countries go there to do that thing, doesn't mean that it must be legal in all countries.

put your head in the sand - hope it goes away

make it more hassle for the poor young girls who have to travel.....:(

PrivateEye

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?p=7051419

OH HAI

:rolleyes:

K-9

conchubhar1 wrote: »

how the fook is pro choice por nazi?

feckin pro lifers are so deluded if they dont reliase girls just head to the uk....


wow i hate those stomefront tits more than loyalists and orange order members - now that impressive

Huh? You hate them more than Loyalists and Orange Order members.

On a scale of 1 to 10 where do they rate?

conchubhar1

really i have never seen a bigger group of ***** in ireland before!

jumpguy

PrivateEye wrote: »

OH HAI

:rolleyes:

It's actually a pity they ban them, I love a good ole intellectual debate with people of opposing views. Then again, if they start being abusive and racist openly then fair enough.

PrivateEye

conchubhar1 wrote: »

really i have never seen a bigger group of ***** in ireland before!

Youth Defence or White Race Defence?

In my own opinion the site, especially the After Hours section seems to be dominated by middle-class trendies and students.

Brilliant.

conchubhar1

PrivateEye wrote: »

Youth Defence or White Race Defence?

racists and those stormfront dicks speficly

but now that you mention it pro lifers also - delusional

---
no scale - i just dislike racists and delusional militant religious nut-jobs
(covers all three groups quite well actually)

The_Minister

PrivateEye wrote: »

Feminism and fascism can never go hand in hand obviously.

How do you figure?

From what I can see there is no reason for feminism and facism to be mutually exclusive.
And as for abortion, the nazi's would have loved our prenatal screening abilities.

conchubhar1

''The Fascist government in Italy banned literature on birth control and increased penalties on abortion in 1926, declaring them both crimes against the state.[97] The Nazis decriminalized abortion in cases where fetuses had hereditary defects or were of a race the government disapproved of, while the abortion of healthy "pure" German, "Aryan" unborn remained strictly forbidden.[98] For non-Aryans, abortion was not only allowed, but often compelled.[99] Their eugenics program stemmed also from the "progressive biomedical model" of Weimar Germany.[100] In 1935 Nazi Germany expanded the legality of abortion by amending its eugenics law, to promote abortion for women who have hereditary disorders.[101] The law allowed abortion if a woman gave her permission, and if the fetus was not yet viable,[102][103] and for purposes of so-called racial hygiene.[104][105] The security chief of the neo-Nazi group Aryan Nations expressed similar views, stating: "I’m just against abortion for the pure white race. For blacks and other mongrelized races, abortion is a good idea."[106]''

lifted from the wiki on facism - but in general fascist wouldnt be open to women as equals

K-9

conchubhar1 wrote: »

really i have never seen a bigger group of ***** in ireland before!

Maybe go to Rossnowlagh on Saturday or come to my ROI town and watch them march on Sunday. Everybody gets on with their business and nobody cares.

If dear ould Donegal gets to Croke Park a few of them will be on the bus and no doubt sharing pints and in jokes.

PrivateEye

The_Minister wrote: »

How do you figure?

From what I can see there is no reason for feminism and facism to be mutually exclusive.
.

Fascism and fashion, never hand in hand

I think any political idea with equality at its core (Remember feminism is about the social,political and economic equality of women, not chasing us blokes down the road with pitchforks!) is incompatible with any idea of a 'superior race'

conchubhar1

get over the orange order comment...... are you a member? is that why you seem caught up on it

PrivateEye

23rd October 1992 - The Democratic Left branch in TCD organised a picket of the Youth Defence offices, then located over the Pipers House pub on Thomas Street. As soon as the 'picket' started a few men drinking in the pub, supporters and friends of YD, bailed out with pool cues and started lashing out at the marchers. A young photographer from 'The Star' newspaper was knocked unconscious. A few protesters were beaten around the heads. Youth Defence members stood back and smirked at the people injured.


6th July 1994 - YD and DAIC both held pickets on the Dail at the same time. Afterwards the DAIC group went to have coffee in Buswells. YD came into the hotel and threw cups, etc. around. The Gardai arrived and put both groups out into the street, where scuffles continued for some time. The Gardai intercepted a Youth Defence van containing a number of hurleys, which were being brought to the scene.

In neither of the above cases were charges taken against YD, for what were clearly unprovoked assaults on peaceful protests. However court cases did take place in relation to YD pickets on the family homes and offices of politicians they regarded as 'pro-abortion'. A number of YD members were convicted in 1995 for picketing the office of Brendan Howlin, then Health Minister, in Wexford.

November 1997 - YD dragged the raped 13 year old in the 'C' case though the courts in an attempt to prevent her exercising her legal right to have an abortion in Britain.

http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/darg/appendix_18sept_yd.html

Add to this Justin Barrett and his neo-nazi friends, and it all starts to look a bit shaddy.

K-9

conchubhar1 wrote: »

get over the orange order comment...... are you a member? is that why you seem caught up on it

Hmmm......

Deflecting the very point they brought up.

Methinks somebody hasn't a clue of something they "know it all about".

conchubhar1

K-9 wrote: »

Hmmm......

Deflecting the very point they brought up.

Methinks somebody hasn't a clue of something they "know it all about".

not deflecting it - was a fairly straight forward comment

i dislike the orange order - but ignorant naive pro lifers and stormfront i dislike them much much more

duh?

---

is that a qoute ''something they "know it all about"'' ?
who is they?

ScumLord

Beee, bob, doooo, baob dooooo jimmy bob dooo delayy bob doooo....


It's much worse in real life boooooob deeeee boooooo laaaa cuuunnntyboooo.

PrivateEye

What was weird was that apparently those marching were predominantly young, and not old grannys.

Thats well off to be honest. I was on the counter-demo and I honestly think half their march was dying. They had an 'official mass' at 1pm before the demo which says it all about the target crowd.

I asked one of them (after he called me a godless homo :rolleyes: lovely stuff) If he was on the march last month showing solidarity with the living children abused by the church. He strolled off anyway!

The youth block was, I admit, worryingly large, but in the context of the rally nothing really. That was a national demonstration remember. I expected near enough no young people. They also spent THOUSANDS on advertising today. Probably got something silly for every head there!

Irish Ferries, PAYE, the Pension Levy, the Iraqi Occupation, the demo the day the Rossport Five were released.... it wasn't up there. It wasn't even close. People have to ask themselves why a right-wing Christian group would have a demo right now, at this moment in time.

Hurr Durr, to take attention of somebody else. Soembody has been feeling hot under the collar (clever pun?) lately and *bang!* out come Youth Defence with a 'Life' rally. They're a predictable bunch really.

As for the Orange Order, however they came up, god they probably look at Youth Defence and go 'really?' Declines in their numbers are being put down to the growth of secularism.

*fingers crossed* and Youth Defence might f<ck off too soon enough!

conchubhar1

one could only hope they do

K-9

conchubhar1 wrote: »

wow i hate those stomefront tits more than loyalists and orange order members - now that impressive

No doubt there'll be some some FUD to dispense.
.

conchubhar1

okay

1 - FUD ???? (fear, uncertainity and doubt? - bollix - its called an opinion)

2 - give it up - you have made way too many off topic comments on a post which is quite explanatory

K-9

conchubhar1 wrote: »

okay

1 - FUD ???? (fear, uncertainity and doubt? - bollix - its called an opinion)

2 - give it up - you have made way too many off topic comments on a post which is quite explanatory

Ah well, so it was just a throw away remark, that you where pulled up on?
You've nothing to back it up with, Fair enough!

conchubhar1

OPINION

I dislike the orange order but hate those other groups more - what do you expect me to back it up with?

a picture of me with an angry face while looking at them marching?

davyjose

I've always wondered about pro-choice. How exactly do they get the voting card into the uterus???

Davidius

I disagree with both sides.

conchubhar1

hardy har

its choice for the mother

davyjose

conchubhar1 wrote: »

hardy har

its choice for the mother

Mother? See that's why I'm against -- three people involved only 1 gets a choice. Fair?

conchubhar1

davyjose wrote: »

Mother? See that's why I'm against -- three people involved only 1 gets a choice. Fair?

does the father have to go through labour?
mother the child?

who says the father doesnt get a say anyway?


the baby can't have a say - as it isnt a baby that can think or have a choice yet

davyjose

conchubhar1 wrote: »

does the father have to go through labour?
mother the child?

who says the father doesnt get a say anyway?


the baby can't have a say - as it isnt a baby that can think or have a choice yet

There's no proof the baby can't think. Anyway, I'm not too keen to get into this argument right now, at half four... but....

Pro-choice has been abused. Of that there is no doubt. In britain, abortion is used quite highly as a form of contraception. There can be pro-choice, but how can we know that is a valid qualified choice.

Also, boo ****ing hoo about the "going through labour" argument. That's the absolute worst excuse to terminate a pregnancy. I can understand it for almost any other reason apart from that.

Plus, I'm pro-euthanasia, if that matters.

conchubhar1

right
there is no way for it to communicate its choice!

if she is raped - having to deliver the child and raise it or give it away...... is traumatising

very very few people would use it as a form of contraceptive

you would have to go and get it aborted - you know exactly what is happening and what you did

no one takes that lightly

no it doesnt matter - it shows you want to put people out of their misery but force women to be put into misery if they do not want that child for any array of reasons

davyjose

conchubhar1 wrote: »

very very few people would use it as a form of contraceptive

That's not something you can know, or prove TBH. But from what I've heard, it happens****.

So the baby can't choose, ok, fair enough(I was being smart-aleccy. Apologies). But, if the woman is being put into misery by having a child, then she shouldn't really be having sex, now should she?

The case of a rape is different, but again I'm being drawn into a very complex argument that I don't have the time/complete sobriety to engage in. I'm not pro-life, but I'm not anti-life either. The system getting abused is my biggest concern. you can try to make that seem ignoble, but I don't agree that it is.

Perhaps a screening process, or some kind of evaluation needs to be put in place before we start handing out abortions for all.

**** And if I'm wwrong then that's something that maybe the pro-choicers need to discuss, rather than admonish anyone who dares be against them, i.e. being right-wing or old-fashioned or whatever label gets thrown around. Be less confrontational and self-righteous about the whole damn thing. Because there are very valid arguments on both sides.

conchubhar1

true - just basing that one on human nature...


rape + contraceptives are also not 100%

it wont be abortions for all - i doubt the number would increase from the amount that travels abroad each year

having a choice - i dont see how you could call that wrong

i will agree that cases against abortion can be good and valid - but these still hold true when their is a choice

instead of you have to go abroad because it is wrong for these reasons - tough for you!
this is just the way it is
think before you have sex you unholy abomination
etc etc etc
crap

The_Minister

On the point of examining if abortion is used as contraception.
Russia - more babies aborted then born
Romania pre-dictator (began with a C, forget his name) - four abortion to one live birth.
Japan - openly considered a form of contraception.

So it would seem to happen that people to have abortions instead of stopping the baby being made in the first place.

PrivateEye60999888 wrote:

People have to ask themselves why a right-wing Christian group would have a demo right now, at this moment in time.

Hurr Durr, to take attention of somebody else. Soembody has been feeling hot under the collar (clever pun?) lately and *bang!* out come Youth Defence with a 'Life' rally. They're a predictable bunch really.

I was thinking that they were gearing up for Lisbon II. Much of their material mentioned Europe.

bronte

conchubhar1 wrote: »

does the father have to go through labour?
mother the child?

who says the father doesnt get a say anyway?

Qft.
Show up, make your 'contribution' (congrats on that by the way, I hear its a real challenge :rolleyes: ) And can then fcuk off after the nearest skirt that catches your eye whilst expecting 'rights'.
FFS!
Maybe you'll get them when you contribute a bit more than something that equates to a sneeze that can be performed in your sleep.

Arrrgggghh!