Crossfit

Strive

Hey just wanted to see, if anyone had been incorporating crossfit in to there weekely training schedule.

Since about Feb I have begun to do at least one crossfit type workout a week, and then used the other four days that I train, doing cardio, and/or more standard weight workouts.

The benefits I find from this, are:

1: I now set goals, with my times on crossfit exercises, that I strive to beat the successive time.

2: My more regular weight workout sessions, are now spent working on increasing strength, and most importantly technique.

3: My performance in all other sports has increased hugely.

4: I have found a new determination, with regards to training and all of this has to do with crossfit.

Can anyone else suggest what other types of training I can incorporate to my weekly schedule, to bring it to the next level?

Please no "hater" comments about crossfit, I don't want to start WW3, just looking for new areas in training.

itsallaboutheL

THis almost seems like a shill............ Colm haz you been taking contaminated protein??








OP what kind of advice are you looking for, you havn't given any goals just said that you think Crossfit is the shizzle??

Strive

Ok sorry,

I wanted to know if there was any new forms of training, not necessarily similar to crossfit, but that could diversify/improve training even further.

Thanks

itsallaboutheL

What are you training for is it a particular sport??

What are your lifts currently??

Do you consider Crossfit your main form of training and just want to supplement it??

Strive

No particular sport, do many at different times of the year.

Just want to optimize my potential, in cardio weight lifting, conditioning, strenght etc. Don't want bodybuilder build, as need to be quick for many sports.

Do my weights in 2 circuits, with four stations to each section, divided into abs, upper body and legs.

With regard to what I am lifting... do my deadlifts with 100 k for 8 reps, chins with 25 kg strapped on, for sets of 6 etc, but if you could give any advice on increasing strenght on legs, that would be great. I have good conditioning and stamina, but power is probably (definately) weak.

So advice there would be welcome, something fun preferably!

Zamboni

Strive wrote: »

I wanted to know if there was any new forms of training, not necessarily similar to crossfit, but that could diversify/improve training even further.

Strive wrote: »

So advice there would be welcome, something fun preferably!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKGF-ErsJiI

Strive

Zamboni, that is impressive I must say. And it has given me some ideas, something like that is definately something I could do once a week. Appreciate that a lot.

BobbyOLeary

What do you mean by improving your training? One of the key components of CrossFit is that it improves your training constantly, you don't need to change it up just follow the WODs.

Just want to optimize my potential, in cardio weight lifting, conditioning, strenght etc. Don't want bodybuilder build, as need to be quick for many sports.

Optimise your potential? Cool beans, eat right (Paleo Zone all the way baby), sleep lots and keep following the WOD. Follow this any you'll get quick enough for nearly any sport at the recreational level.

If anyone disputes this last point go and find someone with a sub-4 or sub-3 Fran and see if they're not quick enough for any sport.

I don't really think you need to do anything more than CrossFit (I would be a tad biased admittedly) to be honest. I'd actually increase the amount of WODs you do in a week, I didn't see the improvements I wanted until I was doing a strict 3-on 1-off 2-on 1-off schedule.

Khannie

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

I'd actually increase the amount of WODs you do in a week

Just wondering why you wouldn't consider this as your first port of call OP?

Transform

personally i do a very similar schedule - one or two crossfit style workouts (some i make up and some i do like fran last week) and two other full body workouts.

absolutely love it as do the other guys i train with.

Just put in the wod or make up your own

For me and the guys today it was the following

20 deadlifts (60kg), 20 band pulls, 20 weighted press ups (10kg with feet on step), 20 weighted crunches (15kg held overhead) all done for 6 rounds - my time today was just under 18mins.

Followed that with 400m run, 21 kettlebell swings (20kg), 12 chins done for 3 rounds for time - poor time today 9.45mins!

Tomorrow with be cleans and cardio

floggg

Zamboni wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKGF-ErsJiI

That has to be the most homoerotic workout video i have ever seen! After the first scence, i was expecting to see some soft core porn

Transform

i agree i was not too impressed also

Zamboni

floggg wrote: »

That has to be the most homoerotic workout video i have ever seen! After the first scence, i was expecting to see some soft core porn

:pac:
It's like a bit Rocky & Apollo Creed on the beach alright!
But to be fair to the guy, it is impressive.

Colm_OReilly

THis almost seems like a shill

I was surprised I hadn't a PM from g'em or another moderator about this, but afaik I don't know strive.

Do my weights in 2 circuits, with four stations to each section, divided into abs, upper body and legs.

What sort of weight routine have you got? I ask because that sounds like a split body part programming, which wouldn't be optimal for sport development.

personally i do a very similar schedule - one or two crossfit style workouts (some i make up and some i do like fran last week) and two other full body workouts.

Full body conditioning is in most cases preferable here OP.

I wanted to know if there was any new forms of training, not necessarily similar to crossfit, but that could diversify/improve training even further.

Maybe you need to either pop down to us or find a training group? The training group gives you extra intensity you just don't get at home on your own. There's some of my clients who are very fit at this stage, but still take a good bit of time off their workouts once they're competing with me or someone similar. Even Will, who's a good 30-40% fitter than me at least, ups his game when he's working out with a group.

have good conditioning and stamina, but power is probably (definately) weak.

Olympic Lifting is your friend there dude.

Strive

Thanks to all who supplied info. I do train with a group twice a week, and yes I agree that has also spurred me on, because lets face it no one likes to, or wants to come last!

The only reason why I did not do more WOD a week, was that I had been advised to not do more than two or three heavy weights sessions a week. I was advised that the other activities I should do during the week, should be cardio based. Do any of you disagree, and is it safe to do more than three heavy sessions a week?

All my weight sessions are full body, as I don't particularly see the point of just focussing on one body section per work out. I may be wrong on this one. Also I find it boring and tend to lose intensity when I just work on one area.

That is in my opinion the best part of crossfit, full body workout generally, conditioning training and cardio too.

Colm_OReilly

The only reason why I did not do more WOD a week, was that I had been advised to not do more than two or three heavy weights sessions a week. I was advised that the other activities I should do during the week, should be cardio based. Do any of you disagree, and is it safe to do more than three heavy sessions a week?

What was the reasoning behind this?

Strive

I was just following the advice of a trainer, I should of stressed that before doing a crossfit exercise such as Fran or Grace, we would of done circuit weights. I was told that heavy weight sessions should be kept at 2 or 3 a week. Is this incorrect?

Colm_OReilly

The answer, as with a lot of things, is, it depends.

But I train 5x plus a week and they're always heavy sessions. As do my clients.

rubadub

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

But I train 5x plus a week and they're always heavy sessions. As do my clients.

I think you both need to spell out exactly what is meant by "heavy". I expect some mate of Strive's might have said he should not deadlift or squat 5x a week. You could be talking totally different rep ranges too etc

advice of a trainer

is this guy involved with crossfit?

Roper

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

Optimise your potential? Cool beans, eat right (Paleo Zone all the way baby), sleep lots and keep following the WOD. Follow this any you'll get quick enough for nearly any sport at the recreational level.

If anyone disputes this last point go and find someone with a sub-4 or sub-3 Fran and see if they're not quick enough for any sport.

That's a ridiculous statement. Only the Sith deal in absolutes. There is no workout that can tell you this about "any sport".

I would say that Crossfit is good, but that it seems to encourage a one size fits all mentality. Want to be a good cyclist? Crossfit. Want to be a better runner? Do the WODs. It's just never that simple and anyone who tells you it is has blinkers on. I don't believe enough data has gone through to believe so absolutely that Crossfit is the way to go for sport. I think you may be sufferring from extreme proximity bias!

That being said, I like some of the metcon ideas and I applaud the use of the barbell and Olympic lifts and tip my hat to Crossfit's involvment in increasing their popularity. I also think Crossfit Ireland is a great gym and there should be more like it.

Edwardius

I think he was just talking about speed. If you can do a sub-3 fran, you ain't gonna take 2 mins to run 400m. I don;t think he said that cf will improve your knitting ability...

itsallaboutheL

Dead Ed wrote: »

I think he was just talking about speed. If you can do a sub-3 fran, you ain't gonna take 2 mins to run 400m. I don;t think he said that cf will improve your knitting ability...

If you can do a sub-3 fran then you're very good at Fran and have decent conditioning is about all it really tells you!

Edwardius

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

If you can do a sub-3 fran then you're very good at Fran and have decent conditioning is about all it really tells you!

Ok, I was looking at the performance of this workout as a test moreso than a workout. Someone that only does fran and nowt else (I've heard of feckers training specifically for this, which is a bit... well...) and gets a sub-3 time and someone who never did fran tried it and he hits a sub 3, then he's gonna be a different animal to the former and will be damn fast in general.

E.g. Josh Everett usually trains with oly lifting, some 40-100m sprints and the odd CF WOD. He'd do a 2.25 fran without training specifically for it. Also fran appears on the mainsite every few months so an improvement in this is not due to familiarity and specialisation with the movements in the workout...

kevpants

Roper wrote: »

That's a ridiculous statement. Only the Sith deal in absolutes. There is no workout that can tell you this about "any sport".

I would say that Crossfit is good, but that it seems to encourage a one size fits all mentality. Want to be a good cyclist? Crossfit. Want to be a better runner? Do the WODs. It's just never that simple and anyone who tells you it is has blinkers on. I don't believe enough data has gone through to believe so absolutely that Crossfit is the way to go for sport. I think you may be sufferring from extreme proximity bias!

That being said, I like some of the metcon ideas and I applaud the use of the barbell and Olympic lifts and tip my hat to Crossfit's involvment in increasing their popularity. I also think Crossfit Ireland is a great gym and there should be more like it.

Yeah just to follow on from this, and I'm NOT bashing Crossfit. The advice here seems to be replace everything with more WODs and no one has pulled th OP up on his idea that Crossfit is a heavy weights workout.

Obviously the benefits of Crossfit are there to be seen but they don't include strength as such. One of the OP's goals is to optimise his potential in weightlifting (I presume this just means get strong rather than learning to snatch) and as soon as "optimising potential" is mentioned the diagnosis is: more Crossfit.

I mean I'm trying to shed some lbs and get some conditioning in so I'm continuing the powerlifting training, and progressing, while doing hill sprints twice a week. If after 6 weeks I have a base of CV fitness built up and I'm still powerlifting at the same or higher level is this not more in line with the OP's goals?

I tried one light Crossfit WOD and found the recovery, DOMS etc too much for my non-lifting days so I decided on the hill sprints as they don't leave me sore. If someone wants to get stronger and also work on their CV fitness, based on my experience I'd say Crossfit is....eek.... wrong?

I mean Crossfit is great and all but combined with a strength program? Colm maybe you can talk about cases of people regularily Crossfitting and strength training so I'd like to see. Is there not a clash between needing to recover from weight training and the taxing nature of the WODs?

Once again these are just my thoughts, not bashing, not saying I'm right. Just my thoughts.

Edwardius

I think the confusion etc here is due to the fact that ya'll look at "crossfit" as nothing but a bunch of metcon workouts. If you look at someone like Reilly's programming you'll see there's more of a strength/skill bias and the metcon is a secondary consideration. Basically: warm up with some sort of skill (handstands etc) lift something heavy, hit a 5-10min metcon, go home.

Transform

as mentioned i do 2 crossfit workouts and two normal sessions (full body). Some days a normal session with 4 exercises and then a crossfit style finish.

Works well for me and i can still put up good numbers on my weights and running.

podge57

Strive wrote: »

No particular sport, do many at different times of the year.

Just want to optimize my potential, in cardio weight lifting, conditioning, strenght etc. Don't want bodybuilder build, as need to be quick for many sports.

its not really possible to optimize your potential in so many different areas at once. In order to optimize strength you would only train for strength - stuff like conditioning and cardio will only detract from that.

Crossfit covers strength and conditioning, but its not optimal for either - it is more for all-round fitness, which is what i suppose you are aiming for

Strive

Again enjoying most of the feed back from all you guys.

Someone asked me what I meant by heavy weight sessions. My answer would be that I lift my max and try to improve it or upp the reps, and go flat out for as many rounds as I can.

By optimizing my potential, I mean improving my strenght, power, speed reflexes etc.

As I said I am a huge fan of crossfit, and see that it helps me especially with conditioning more than anything else, but it wont increase my sprinting, or reflexes in my opinion.

So would ladder training be good for this? This is what I mean in finding other training techniques to add in to crossfit.

BobbyOLeary

That's a ridiculous statement. Only the Sith deal in absolutes. There is no workout that can tell you this about "any sport".

Ridiculous? Fair enough. Nice use of the Sith though, you get that in here from time to time, I like it.

Follow this any you'll get quick enough for nearly any sport at the recreational level

Note the word recreational. I hate coming on and being pedantic on a forum, it makes me look like an ass but this point comes up about CrossFit a lot I find. If a normal CrossFitter, i.e. someone who doesn't pick and choose WODs but let's say just follows the mainsite, can do a sub-3 or 4 Fran I would imagine he's going to be fast enough and quick enough to play nearly any sport at, and I'll say it again, the recreational level.

Of course Fran isn't a good test on its own, to suggest it was would be stupid. And to suggest that a CrossFitter with a sub-3 Fran could automatically be brilliant at any sport is equally stupid. They will have the physical ability for the sport but will need to train it.

Want to be a good cyclist? Crossfit. Want to be a better runner? Do the WODs.

That is wrong and it's a part of Glassmans lectures that bug the crap out of me too. CrossFit isn't for high-end sportsmen, but for a guy like me who plays a few different sports it works perfectly. That's not to say other stuff won't work, just because I say CrossFit works doesn't mean I'm saying your stuff doesn't Baz.

I mean Crossfit is great and all but combined with a strength program?

I can't link it to you Kev as it's a pay article but there's plenty of people doing this in the CF world, Jeff Martin (CrossFit BrandX and the creator of the CF Kids program) is a big fan of it, he calls it CrossFit Strength Bias. Another guy, Michael Rutherford (another pay article sorry, I can send you the links to where they are if you want them?) started up a program called Max Effort Black Box which is similar to Martin's program. Some of the guys over on the Performance Menu are into it too.

I think you may be sufferring from extreme proximity bias!

Haha probably! I stand by what I said though, CrossFit will work for most people for most sports. I'm also sure that the programming yourself and Will do for people will also work. I prefer CrossFit at the minute and so I'll continue to recommend it to people. I must get out to your place when it's fully open to have a look, I'd love to get a go of dropping those olympic weight sets Will mentioned on his blog.

kevpants

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

I can't link it to you Kev as it's a pay article but there's plenty of people doing this in the CF world, Jeff Martin (CrossFit BrandX and the creator of the CF Kids program) is a big fan of it, he calls it CrossFit Strength Bias. Another guy, Michael Rutherford (another pay article sorry, I can send you the links to where they are if you want them?) started up a program called Max Effort Black Box which is similar to Martin's program. Some of the guys over on the Performance Menu are into it too.

That'd be interesting to see. Just how strong are those guys?

Chris89

I remember when i was at the Crossfit Cert in Manchester, Greg Glassman said something, which i think should end all these disagreements.

We (as crossfitters) can do our stuff WAY better than you.
We can do your stuff almost as good as you.
And we will kill you in the stuff that we both dont do.

Crossfit FTW

itsallaboutheL

Chris89 wrote: »

I remember when i was at the Crossfit Cert in Manchester, Greg Glassman said something, which i think should end all these disagreements.

We (as crossfitters) can do our stuff WAY better than you.
We can do your stuff almost as good as you.
And we will kill you in the stuff that we both dont do.

Crossfit FTW

Crossfit
"making men small and women hot"

Chris89

I agree about the hot women, but if this is small, then i need to get me some proteens

itsallaboutheL

I see your two metrosexuals and raise you 12 fat guys and a kid.............

Will Heffernan

Chris89 wrote: »

I remember when i was at the Crossfit Cert in Manchester, Greg Glassman said something, which i think should end all these disagreements.

We (as crossfitters) can do our stuff WAY better than you.
We can do your stuff almost as good as you.
And we will kill you in the stuff that we both dont do.

Crossfit FTW

That would be great...if it was true.

Colm_OReilly

It's late and this conversation is upsetting me, so close to my birthday and all.

Let's cool the sweeping statements everyone, please. At least til Sunday where hungover I'll post something up.

There was a statistical analysis done of the CrossFit Games 08 on the events and the strict Fran, I believe, actually carried over extremely accurately to the final standings. It's been damn near a year since I read that article but I'll have a look at it. Be an interesting read and I'll email articles on to people who are genuinely interested.

Chris89

Will Heffernan wrote: »

That would be great...if it was true.

Its yet to be disproven.

Whats your Fran time? rockin sub 5 yet?

Chris89

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

I see your two metrosexuals and raise you 12 fat guys and a kid.............

Fold.

itsallaboutheL

Chris89 wrote: »

Its yet to be disproven.

Whats your Fran time? rockin sub 5 yet?

this is clearly to be countered by what do you bench/squat/ deadlift/C and J / Snatch!!

Chris89

considering all of the above should be measured in comparison to your bodyweight. I would think i do quite well.

I dont train any of them specifically, but still progress.

Which ties in nicely with the whole, "do your stuff almost as well as you" point. Assuming the weights are all relative.

itsallaboutheL

So is Fran going to be relative to your increased Aerobic Capacity?? Is it going to be scaled because you're faster or lighter or whatever??

Will Heffernan

Chris89 wrote: »

Its yet to be disproven.

Whats your Fran time? rockin sub 5 yet?

I've never had anything to do with Crossfit. Why don't you send me the protocol and I will do it and film it over the weekend? What is your best time by the way? That'll give me something to try and beat. I'm sure I'll fall woefully short having never trained 'crossfit' but always ready to humiliate myself. Is 5 mins the time to beat? How about we wager €500 on it just for the craic?

You can come and do it in my gym with me if you like?

Chris89

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

So is Fran going to be relative to your increased Aerobic Capacity?? Is it going to be scaled because you're faster or lighter or whatever??

Im not sure if i get your point?

I wasnt trying to be a doucher, i was trying to illustrate how a lot of people put crossfit down as useless. But on some of the workouts, like Fran, where there is 2 simple exercises, thrusters and chins that dont require the specialty skills of a snatch or a muscle up.. they wouldnt stand a chance against crossfitters.

And thats not because crossfitters specifically train for Fran, its because they train everything.

They powerlift, clean, jerk, run, snatch.

I dont really know where im going with this except for dont diss crossfit until your fran is sub 5.

I cant snatch for crap, when i can put up bodyweight i might have something to say about it!

Chris89

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I've never had anything to do with Crossfit. Why don't you send me the protocol and I will do it and film it over the weekend? What is your best time by the way? That'll give me something to try and beat. I'm sure I'll fall woefully short having never trained 'crossfit' but always ready to humiliate myself. Is 5 mins the time to beat? How about we wager €500 on it just for the craic?

You can come and do it in my gym with me if you like?

My fran time is 24 seconds.

Will Heffernan

OK...I just read the rest of the posts and see it is turning into a pissing competition. Anyone who has been around long enough should know that there is no 'best way' to train. If 'Westside' gets you motivated then that's the best way to train...if Oly lifting makes you happy...then that's the best way and if it's Crossfit then it sounds good to me. Keep in mind people were doing 'Crossfit' a long, long time before 'Crossfit' was 'invented'.

itsallaboutheL

Chris89 wrote: »

Im not sure if i get your point?

I wasnt trying to be a doucher, i was trying to illustrate how a lot of people put crossfit down as useless. But on some of the workouts, like Fran, where there is 2 simple exercises, thrusters and chins that dont require the specialty skills of a snatch or a muscle up.. they wouldnt stand a chance against crossfitters.

And thats not because crossfitters specifically train for Fran, its because they train everything.

They powerlift, clean, jerk, run, snatch.

I dont really know where im going with this except for dont diss crossfit until your fran is sub 5.

I cant snatch for crap, when i can put up bodyweight i might have something to say about it!

Ya you came in and said don't diss crossfit, when no one had said a bad word about it.. and then proceeded to question everyone else's style of training.

Are these "real" chins we're talking about??

And i powerlift, clean jerk, run (sometimess) and snatch too............... but im not telling everyone else there training principals are crap...

Edwardius

Aye, it's just exercise for feck's sake.

Chris89

Are these "real" chins we're talking about??

Haha, probably not.

itsallaboutheL

TBH man i'm just actin the bollox Devil's Advocate... i'm a fan of Crossfit, or at least some of it, i just wouldn't say its the only way...

Chris89

Nor would I.

I actually disagree with the whole training crossfit will make you better at a specific sport than training that sport specifically.

If i had an olympic platform in my back garden thats all id do, cleans and snatches.

token

Just on combining Crossfit & Strength. Like Bobby mentioned there's the Crossfit Strength Bias for those looking to increase strength while doing crossfit. The best example is probably Crossfit Football though which you can check out at http://www.crossfitfootball.com/ which is aimed at increasing GPP but with a Strength&Power bias.

Being based on crossfit it doesn't following the exact same programming every week but this is the general outline.

Mon, Tues, Thurs, Friday
1-2 Lifts then a Metcon

Saturday
Metcon

Wednesday, Sunday
Rest

The metcons are generally fast and heavy. You will rarely see a long grinder in there like the main site which throws them out too much imo. It's still a pretty packed schedule as you can see but that layout above is aimed at guys in the off season.

Check out the right hand side for the Strength portion of the day and then the middle for the metcon of the day. Select your level on the strength portion as Amateur, Collegiate, Professional. This basically corresponds to novice, intermediate & advanced as defined in Practical Programming. The metcon weights give are at the Professional level so most people would need to scale those.

I haven't tried this as I'm up in CFI with Colm and following his programming so I can't testify to it's effects but it looks pretty solid. Colm's programming on CFI is similar to the Strength Bias program Bobby mentioned generally with a lift before the metcon and it does increase strength which I can testify to albeit at a slower rate than a specialised strength program.