Kids + school

robindch

I'm theist, no kids, not prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

stevejazzx wrote: »

No need to lie, just tell the school that your kid was baptised in Russia and that the church is [...] complete twaddle

<cough>

JimiTime

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

I can also see the purpose of Uniforms but I don't think they matter. In school kids segregated themselves for all sorts of reasons. Kids who collected Premier League Stickers, Kids with Cable, Kids with the latest WWF toys with kungfu grip.

I remember the day I was allowed to walk over and talk to the cable kids because I knew what happened on last nights Alien Nation.

Plus in secondary school, even though there was a uniform, variations on it separated groups. Instead of black shoes, rich kids would buy all black pumas or nikes, and instead of navy trousers they'd buy expensive navy combat trousers. Plus the only guidelines for jackets was that they be navy of black. Rich kids would have £400 gore-tex or kangol jackets.

Nowadays I'd imagine the gadgets you have on you is what separates the kids. I'm sure there are iPhone or Apple geek groups in secondary schools.

True enough. Still don't see a big deal with uniforms though. Not to be insulting, but I always looked upon the whole 'i want to be free to express myself' with regard to uniforms, quite an insecure stance. That or just merely teen rebellion. Then again, we all exhibited juvenility in various ways.

stevejazzx

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

robindch wrote: »

<cough>

I think I owe the catholic church a few, they've told me so many! {zing and drum roll}

I meant forge documents! doh! Maybe I meant no need for a bigger, messier lie....?
Shows my penchant for self deception hasn't let up though!:)

Galvasean

I'm atheist/agnostic, w/ kids, not prepared to baptize to access preferred school

liah wrote: »

As for uniforms, I'd've hated them. I love being able to express my individuality and I think everyone should have the opportunity to. Especially as a teenager, when you're at your most expressive,

That's all well and good for you secularly balanced Canadians, but your average Irish teenage girl's way of expressing herself through the clothes she wears is to wear as little as possible. Basically expressing herself as a little slut.

Goduznt Xzst

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

JimiTime wrote: »

True enough. Still don't see a big deal with uniforms though.

I don't have a big problem with them either. Except from maybe the needless cost on the parents to buy them. I know my mother rue the day each year when she'd have to buy myself and my siblings completely new uniforms as we'd grew out the previous years ones. There was hand-me-downs, but as I was the only boy I needed a completely new uniform each year.

In regards to teenagers expressing themselves through rebellion. I'm pretty sure that's standard and not a sign of insecurity. It probably comes about when a kid realizes their parents and their teachers word is not law. Myself, I began testing what I could get away with at a very young age. By secondary school I knew which teachers cared and which didn't about how well you kept to the uniform. Some of the teachers (my art and maths teacher for example) had no issue when I just wore a T-Shirt and jeans to class. On days when I had these teachers I wouldn't wear a Uniform at all.

JimiTime

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

In regards to teenagers expressing themselves through rebellion. I'm pretty sure that's standard and not a sign of insecurity.

I didn't say it was, it was an either/or comment.

CDfm

I'm theist, w/ kids, am prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

Galvasean wrote: »

That's all well and good for you secularly balanced Canadians, but your average Irish teenage girl's way of expressing herself through the clothes she wears is to wear as little as possible. Basically expressing herself as a little slut.

+1 LOL

I didnt have a uniform -my kids do and while it bothered me -they think its normal.

CerebralCortex

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

JimiTime wrote: »

True enough. Still don't see a big deal with uniforms though. Not to be insulting, but I always looked upon the whole 'i want to be free to express myself' with regard to uniforms, quite an insecure stance. That or just merely teen rebellion. Then again, we all exhibited juvenility in various ways.

I don't think its juvenile to want to dress yourself.

CDfm

I'm theist, w/ kids, am prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I don't think its juvenile to want to dress yourself.

I dressed myself this morning

Dades

I'm theist, no kids, not prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

CDfm wrote: »

I dressed myself this morning

Did you put on a school uniform? :pac:

CerebralCortex

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

CDfm wrote: »

I dressed myself this morning

Well done.

pts

CDfm wrote: »

I dressed myself this morning

CDfm

I'm theist, w/ kids, am prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I don't think its juvenile to want to dress yourself.

pts wrote: »

:mad:

pts

CDfm wrote: »

:mad:

pts wrote: »

I'm just joking with you, no offence intended. Friends?

JC 2K3

liah wrote: »

I picked haiku because I was watching "Are You Smarter Than a 10-Year-Old" ages with a couple of Irish lads (and an English one), and that question came up, NONE of them knew what it was, whereas I learned it when I was about.. 5. :pac: It was more of a joke thing.
But I do find a lot of REALLY basic stuff (generally literature or language-based) I learned when I was tiny isn't known about at all here, and I'm not talking about obscure Canadian history facts or anything.

Like what?

The curricula are probably just a bit different.

I think the Irish education system is excellent and AFAIK it's recognised as such worldwide.

That said, unless someone had a horrible time at school, everyone will be biased towards the education that they had being the best.

The only significantly bad part of my education was Catholic dogma being taught in primary school.

Would I baptise my child to get them into a public primary school? I certainly wouldn't want to and would be inclined to investigate the viability of the forgery option first.

Dr Pepper

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

I wouldn't want to get my (non-existent as yet) children baptised for 2 main reasons:
- I don't like religion. I'd rather see people wake up to reality and accept the (harsh) truths about life and death. I don't want to perpetuate the problem. I'd see myself as being part of the problem rather than the solution if I was to get children baptised.
- Second reason is the ceremony itself. You have to stand up and say "I do" when the priest asks a dozen questions starting with "Do you believe in...". I'd feel like a hypocrite and a bit of a fool if I had to stand up in front of family and friends and do that plus I don't see why I should have to!

CerebralCortex

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

JC 2K3 wrote: »

...I think the Irish education system is excellent and AFAIK it's recognised as such worldwide...

I know this is an off topic question but what qualifies it as an excellent system? Is it excellent in design and implementation? Or in comparison to other systems it just out performs them in terms of graduates? I know in my case and this is just anecdotal, that if it had not been for a mixture of my intelligence and an ambitious mother I would have just slipped through the numerous cracks again as I experienced it in the system. I personally think it leaves a lot to be desired.

JC 2K3

Well I'm only basing this on anecdotal evidence too. I thought I received a very good education.

I think the fact that there is a broad range of subjects taught, to a suitably high standard (my mother was a primary school teacher and taught in the states for a time - she said the standard of maths expected there was appaling, though they are dumbing things down here these days, unfortunately) is what makes it good.

Maybe it just catered to me because I'm quite intelligent? *shrug

CerebralCortex

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Well I'm only basing this on anecdotal evidence too. I thought I received a very good education.

I think the fact that there is a broad range of subjects taught, to a suitably high standard (my mother was a primary school teacher and taught in the states for a time - she said the standard of maths expected there was appaling, though they are dumbing things down here these days, unfortunately) is what makes it good.

Maybe it just catered to me because I'm quite intelligent? *shrug

Plus the fact that your mother was a primary school teacher may have had a positive effect. It may be good I think excellent is a strong word. Opinion obviously.

JimiTime

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I don't think its juvenile to want to dress yourself.

I agree.

Goduznt Xzst

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Well I'm only basing this on anecdotal evidence too. I thought I received a very good education.

Well within the current pedagogy you probably did. But that doesn't mean the pedagogy is correct. I think there needs to be a fundamental shift in how we approach education, with tailoring specific to each student. For instance, I suffered miserably with foreign languages, my DATs confirmed this and since graduating I've never needed more than a passing knowledge of English and don't expect I ever will, yet I was forced to waste my time in French and Irish class, the teaching from which I have all but completely forgotten.

I know in my school after we took our DATs and the results came back each student was taken aside individually and recommended what subjects they would more likely excel in. I think the limiting factor was the number of subjects available, and the choices you could make.

From sources now I hear this is changing which is a good thing, and more real world knowledge is being imparted. I know teenagers now engage in a lot more discussions regarding politics and ethics then I ever did in my school. But still, I think all subjects should be opt-in and not mandatory. A primary school level of mathematics is all a lot of people will need, I don't think forcing maths or foreign languages on everyone, regardless if they are capable of understanding it, is the best use of a persons mind during their formative years.

JC 2K3

I believe in a broad academic education. Had I been able to just choose mathsy/sciencey subjects, I think I might have, and I wouldn't have achieved what I did in English, Irish, History etc.

I'm also not a proponent of the idea that all you should be taught in school is what's strictly necessary to surivive in the outside world.

Goduznt Xzst

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I'm also not a proponent of the idea that all you should be taught in school is what's strictly necessary to surivive in the outside world.

Neither am I, but I do think that anything that is to be taught extraneously to the core subjects needed for living and working in a Western Democratic Society should be tailored on an individual basis. If it's not needed for survival then it should at least be of an interest to the individual it is being taught to. I'm also a proponent of the maxim:

Nothing that is worth knowing can be taught. –Oscar Wilde

gramlab

I'm theist, no kids, not prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

Interesting to see the split for the results of those with and without kids. Think most people would be option 1 at some point and think they would progress to 3 but when kids come along option 4 comes more into it.

My take anyway.

CDfm

I'm theist, w/ kids, am prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

stevejazzx wrote: »

No need to lie, just tell the school that your kid was baptised in Russia and that the church is no longer there and thus cannot issue the cert.
Worked for me; complete twoddle it was but never questioned!
Might be a bit strange if one of the partners isn't russian though:)

Pack them a Vodka lunch and help them to dress in the mornings

Bduffman

All this proves is that more idealists vote in these polls than anyone else. The largest single group by a long way don't have kids but are adamant they won't drop their principles.
Well, just a wake up call. A parent will do anything necessary for the wellbeing of their kids.

eg - our local school is catholic - small, rural, central to the community etc. No way am I going to send my kids to a school many miles away just because of my principles. Thats way too similar to religious indoctrination IMO (i.e. forcing my beliefs on my kids).
Whats most important for my kids is that the grow up in the local community so that they both contribute & benefit from that community.

For those w/o kids but plenty of principles, vote again when you have kids & they're at school-going age. Although hopefully by then there will only be state schools & you won't have to worry about it.

CDfm

I'm theist, w/ kids, am prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I believe in a broad academic education. Had I been able to just choose mathsy/sciencey subjects, I think I might have, and I wouldn't have achieved what I did in English, Irish, History etc.

I'm also not a proponent of the idea that all you should be taught in school is what's strictly necessary to surivive in the outside world.

Thats quite interesting.

I find the school curriculum extremely tedious and my knowledge of English,History and Philosophy happened despite rather than because of it.

I can remember the boredom.

Now my kids don't seem to mind but teachers are every bit as bad as they were in my day.

liah

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I believe in a broad academic education. Had I been able to just choose mathsy/sciencey subjects, I think I might have, and I wouldn't have achieved what I did in English, Irish, History etc.

I'm also not a proponent of the idea that all you should be taught in school is what's strictly necessary to surivive in the outside world.

I've no idea how it's done here, but the way it's done back home is that while you have to do some of each type of subject (left brained/right brained stuff) you can choose what you wanted to do.

So basically, in highschool (last 4 years of school, ages between 13-18 depending on your birthday really) you'd have to do 30 something credits.

The only mandatory all-4-years subject you had to do was English. But within English, you could pick different subjects-- Journalism, Classics, Literature, etc. So while you HAD to do some form of English and basic stuff like spelling, grammar, vocabulary is taught in each class, you had the freedom to choose which type you wanted.

One year mandatory French. Probably the only thing that didn't have too much variety. But you also had the option to continue your French education in French Immersion, where all subjects were taught in French.

Science was mandatory for two years, and general science was mandatory for one of them but for the second year you could pick from a variety of subjects, like Biology, more General Sciences, etc.

Maths was mandatory for 3 years of the 4. 2 of the years were general mathematics, and the last year you could choose discrete, algebra, accounting, life skill maths, more general maths, etc.

Physical Education was mandatory for 3 years, and one year was was general sex-segregated stuff (sex ed was taught in physical education in the first year, which is why it was segregated; eases up on the lulz), the remaining 2 you could go into either segregated or co-ed classes. Range of things you could do like the general, or sports-oriented, etc., but you could opt out and do school team sports after school if that worked better for you and take a spare during the day.

You always had a variety of arts classes to choose from. Media studies, classic arts, music, band, modern art, photography, sculpture, textiles, general classes. One year was mandatory and it was general.

Two years mandatory History. One was general history, and the second year you could choose anthropology/social sciences, world history, Canadian history, etc.

One year mandatory tech. This was stuff like welding, wood working, etc. I actually adored that course.

One year mandatory home. Stuff like cooking, sewing, the girly stuff-- but both sexes were required to do it.

The only optional subjects that never had mandatory years were Business courses, which most people did anyway because, quite frankly, it was an easy credit to get. This involved stuff like basic computer studies, learning how to use Excel, learning how to make websites (learned XHTML, CSS, a little basic php), computer science (for the proper geeks; building computers, learning how to use different linux distros, etc), typing courses, stuff like that.

On top of all that, you could take extra Arts courses or Science courses or whatever after your mandatory years were up.

Our years were divided into semesters, semesters were from September to Christmas break, and then from Christmas break to June. So when I say "one year mandatory" it's only for one semester of the year, but it has to be done each year. But I think that's the same here.

Anyway, there was just a ridiculous amount of variety, and I went to a no-frills public school that only had 1500 people in it. Imo it was a VERY good system and catered to the individual quite well.

JC 2K3

Yeah, doesn't sound a million miles from what we have here. There's probably more variety, on average, in Canadian schools, but there do exist comprehensive schools here which would offer more subject choices.

Are there state exams in Canada?

Here you generally study about 8-12 subjects for Junior Cert between the ages of about 12-15, then some take transition year, which is a year less focused on academics, and not focused on preparing you for any exam, and between 17/18 you do about 6-8 subjects in depth for the Leaving Cert.

Irish, English and Maths are compulsory, with most schools also having another language compulsory too. After that, it depends on the school how much choice you get, and generally you have more of a choice at Leaving Cert level.

Also, 1500 people would be huge for a school here

liah

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

Yeah but Ireland is a much smaller country than Canada is

Anyway.

Exams when you leave elementary school around 12/13. I don't really remember much of elementary so I can't really comment. Pretty sure you had to do one for each subject though. Two in the case of French, oral and written, obviously.

As for highschool, you did exams at the end of each semester for the subjects you did that semester to determine whether or not you got the credit. Then I believe there's the SATs in your fourth year, and that's what you'd send out to universities to look at, but I can't give you any details on that because I dropped out of highschool at sixteen and took my equivalency test instead because I learn better on my own (nothing against the education system, I just wasn't learning anything new because I'd already taught myself the majority of subjects; I was a nerdy kid who hated being trapped in a classroom). Also had no desire to go to university or any other post-secondary education institution so. Doesn't apply to me!

Either way there was no one big exam outside of the SATs. Each semester had four subjects so each semester end you'd do 4 exams. 8 exams a year.

You could do apprenticeships which are kind of like transition years from what I gather-- you work out in the real world for no pay for a semester and you get four credits from it, but it's generally only done if you want to opt in for the 5th year for extra credits, which some people do.