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Arfon or Preseli for digital terestrial-Decision needed soon-Advice please.
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Thanks mrdtv!
I'm not actually receiving (not trying to receive, anyway!) analogue transmissions from Llanddona at the moment. It's just that I have a wideband aerial installed on the roof at the moment for testing reception of RTENL DTT and I wondered if it was worthwhile pointing at Llanddona once the power is whacked up to 15kW. In my previous home ( a little further inland, but higher up) I used to get my analogue reception from Arfon (I think so anyway, as the aerial was vertically polarised - but it was over 20 years ago so my recollection may not be spot-on!).
I thought, perhaps, that Arfon might not be such a good candidate for DTT as its radiated power was so much lower than Llanddona, but location and line-of-sight are much more important, which is probably why most analogue reception in this area is from Arfon.
I've only found one other reception report on DTT from Llanddona on another thread which gives me some hope that it might significantly improve. I'd prefer to get the full package of muxes from a main transmitter as I have Freesat working anyway.0 -
BB thanks for your comments also. i only noticed after posting as I had started composing a reply to mrdtv, but left the PC for 20 mins or so.
The Llanddona location is probably shielded from us by high terrain on Anglesea, i presume. The Freeview "lite" option is not hugely of interest due to the fact that I have Freesat already. The Llanddona was just a possible experiment, due to the fact that I have a combo DTT/SAT receiver, plus a couple of PC DTT tuners and am more inclined to play with this stuff than to paint the house:D0 -
www.digitaltelevision.ie has been updated by adding a page relating to the DSO in Wales.
It does not mention FTA/Freesat or the possible availability of full-power UK DTT.South east
Analogue Terrestrial Television Switch Off in the United Kingdom – Will You be Affected?
Terrestrial Television is television broadcast from the mountain top to the viewer who receives it through an aerial. Countries are moving from analogue terrestrial television to digital terrestrial television. Digital terrestrial television uses digital technology to transport the information as a stream of data. This means that more programme channels and other content can be transmitted over a digital terrestrial television network
As part of the United Kingdom’s plan to roll out digital terrestrial television in their jurisdiction, they will be switching off their analogue transmitter in Preseli, Wales. This will be happening in two stages, commencing 19th August 2009 and concluding on 16th September 2009.
This will not affect the reception of RTE1, RTE2, TV3 and TG4 by any Irish household in any manner and there is no requirement to make any change to continue to receive these Irish channels.
Who will this Affect?
This switch off will primarily affect residents along the south east coast of Ireland who have been receiving UK terrestrial television stations through an aerial via over-spill from the transmitters in Wales. It will not affect those people who receive these stations as part of a paid service whether that be via satellite, cable, IPTV (internet protocol television) or MMDS (Multichannel Multipoint Distribution Service).
What Will Happen?
From the 19th of August Irish households in the southeast will no longer be able to receive analogue terrestrial BBC2, and on the 16th of September the remaining UK analogue channels (BBC1, HTV, Channel 4, Channel 5) will switch to digital only. This is happening because the Preseli transmitter in Wales will be changing to a digital platform.
Road ahead for Digital Terrestrial Television in Ireland
The Government is also committed to the provision of Digital Terrestrial Television on both free to air public service channels and other commercial channels. We expect these 2 new services to be available next year on our own digital transmission systems.
Where can I get more information?
http://www.digitaltelevision.ie/
Queries can be emailed to digital.television@dcenr.gov.ie.
Information on the UK switchover process is available at http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/ and http://www.digitaltelevision.gov.uk0 -
Better than nothing I guess... but how many people will come across this obscure website?
Most will read the local papers and pick up the inaccuracies there. Some guidance on what is available should be put out there. It empowers consumers to make the right decisions about what system is best for them...0 -
it's another under informed piece that ignores the fact that many could get presely digital if they wanted to.
Meanwhile-I had the sky news mux working here last night.
Presely gave Mt Leinster a TKO !
Talksport radio,sky sports news,Dave [as opposed to daveja vu which I always have] and e4+1 [I have e4 always] became watchable.
Gone this morning though.
Everything else is grand as usual.0 -
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BB thanks for your comments also. i only noticed after posting as I had started composing a reply to mrdtv, but left the PC for 20 mins or so.
The Llanddona location is probably shielded from us by high terrain on Anglesea, i presume. The Freeview "lite" option is not hugely of interest due to the fact that I have Freesat already. The Llanddona was just a possible experiment, due to the fact that I have a combo DTT/SAT receiver, plus a couple of PC DTT tuners and am more inclined to play with this stuff than to paint the house:D
Arfon is a very high site unlike Llandona which provides quite poor coverage in Wales. It used to be the old Ch 10 VHF station before becoming a vertical relay. If Blaen-Plwyf is an omni on 40kW that will be very interesting indeed. You have a look at the heights on the wonderful mb21 web site and see pics of all these stations.0 -
www.digitaltelevision.ie has been updated by adding a page relating to the DSO in Wales.
It does not mention FTA/Freesat or the possible availability of full-power UK DTT.
Note how nervous this release is. It doesn't say you get a cheap Freeview box and see if you can carry on receiving Preseli. And they don't mention Arfon. The longer Irish DTT is delayed the more they risk market preemption as more and more will have Freeview and ultimately Freeview HD T2 boxes or IDTVs with MPEG2 only. BCI, RTE and the Department must be very worried.0 -
The longer Irish DTT is delayed the more they risk market preemption as more and more will have Freeview and ultimately Freeview HD T2 boxes or IDTVs with MPEG2 only. BCI, RTE and the Department must be very worried.
And they should. Anyone who has ever been to Wexford and parts of Wicklow will know that a very high percentage of households have an aerial pointing east.
Clearly the decision to use the same frequencies at Mt. Leinster and Preseli is to prevent any such overspill, but allows for CCI and intermittent loss of signal as Black Briar has demonstrated. Even on the one or two different frequencies PSB channels will continue... I wonder if RTENL Mt. Leinster will move to Channel 39 instead of the current 45 when things go into fully operational mode?0 -
And they should. Anyone who has ever been to Wexford and parts of Wicklow will know that a very high percentage of households have an aerial pointing east.
Clearly the decision to use the same frequencies at Mt. Leinster and Preseli is to prevent any such overspill, but allows for CCI and intermittent loss of signal as Black Briar has demonstrated. Even on the one or two different frequencies PSB channels will continue... I wonder if RTENL Mt. Leinster will move to Channel 39 instead of the current 45 when things go into fully operational mode?
Preseli PSB's are 43, 46, 50 AFTER switchover with + offsets. The COM ones are 42, 45, 49 which are cochannel with Mount Leinster.0 -
Preseli PSB's are 43, 46, 50 AFTER switchover with + offsets. The COM ones are 42, 45, 49 which are cochannel with Mount Leinster.
True, but I'm sure things could have been reconfigured so that there was no sharing at all? Mendip and Oxford are adjacent transmitters also, but they use different frequencies. I know there is a bit of sea in the middle but given the history it could have been different.
I notice the head of DigitalUK Wales has been very quiet since he asked for overspill information... dare I email him for a third time?!
A useful guide here. Not sure if we should have a seperate thread monitoring the progress of DSO in Wales??? I'll let the mods make that call!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/8193721.stm0 -
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Article from today's Irish Independent on DSO in Wales.Thousands lose free Beeb in big switch-off
By Michael Brennan Political Correspondent
Tuesday August 11 2009
THEY were once the first people in Ireland to be able to watch television -- but now they're about to lose their signal.
The residents of the south east were once the envy of the country because they were able to pick up the BBC and ITV television signals in the 1950s before RTE came into existence.
But now the British government is switching off its analogue television signal to Wales in the coming months. This means that people in counties such as Dublin, Wicklow, Wexford and Waterford will have to either pay for cable or satellite television to get British TV channels.
A private RTE document estimated that there were still 197,000 people in the country who were dependent on the British television "spillover" for their free multi-channel viewing.
However, some of these are located in the border counties and are receiving their signal from the North, which is not due to be switched off until 2012.
Concerned
Labour communications spokesperson Liz McManus said she was concerned at the effect the Welsh switch-off would have on viewers.
"RTE has promised us that people would not lose out but they clearly are going to lose out with the disaster in relation to Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) project," she said.
The DTT project was meant to provide a free-to-air digital television service but the private Boxer consortium in charge of rolling it out pulled out of the project last April. RTE has now admitted that it will no longer meet its target of having the service in place by next month.
Ms McManus, who has raised the issue in the Dail, said nobody had been able to give her assurances as to what would happen to those losing the British TV signal.
"A lot of them are elderly people who don't know this is going to hit them. This is really quite outrageous," she said.
Communications Minister Eamon Ryan admitted that the switch-off of the analogue television signal in Wales in the autumn would affect people in the south east of the country.
But he said this was a development that he had no control over and promised that viewers would be able to get British television channels again once the DTT service was made available.
RTE has already upgraded 85pc of its transmission network to provide for digital television, but it needs to carry out work on its minor transmitters to ensure the remaining population -- in parts of the west, north, north west and south -- is also capable of receiving it.
- Michael Brennan Political Correspondent
From the article the following line "This means that people in counties such as Dublin, Wicklow, Wexford and Waterford will have to either pay for cable or satellite television to get British TV channels" indicates how little journalists (note: Michael Brennan Political Correspondent) and politicians know about the subject, again no mention of FTA Sat, Freesat or possible high power DTT from the UK.
Liz McManus has raised this issue many times in the Dail but has never to my knowledge mentioned the free satellite option. She is quoted in the article as saying "A lot of them are elderly people who don't know this is going to hit them. This is really quite outrageous". If she is that outraged by DSO in another country I can't wait for her reaction to our own switchover.
I agree with Eamon Ryan this has nothing to do with him but does he or his Dept. not know about freesat? You don't have to wait for Irish DTT view the UK channels again.0 -
In dublin what are the chances of getting any of the Welsh DTTV transmitters this month with an attic aerial or would I need an mast?
also could 3rock block out Blaenplwyf
http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/when_do_i_switch/wales0 -
"This means that people in counties such as Dublin, Wicklow, Wexford and Waterford will have to either pay for cable or satellite television to get British TV channels."
As pointed out this is totally misleading. No mention of set top boxes or iDTV's nor of FTA Satellite or Freesat. This really needs to be challenged.0 -
what info did he ask for?T
I notice the head of DigitalUK Wales has been very quiet since he asked for overspill information... dare I email him for a third time?!
Last night I had watchable pictures from preseli ch 45 DESPITE having a grid combined in this set up pointed to mt leinster.
I expect it will be very interestin whether I'll have watchable pictures from it when they increase the power.
I won't be complaining.0 -
True, but I'm sure things could have been reconfigured so that there was no sharing at all? Mendip and Oxford are adjacent transmitters also, but they use different frequencies. I know there is a bit of sea in the middle but given the history it could have been different.
I notice the head of DigitalUK Wales has been very quiet since he asked for overspill information... dare I email him for a third time?!
A useful guide here. Not sure if we should have a seperate thread monitoring the progress of DSO in Wales??? I'll let the mods make that call!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/8193721.stm
The PSB channnels are not cochannel with Mt Leinster. I don't think the COM operators in the UK are bothered. Kilvey Hill starts today. I think the 19th will be very interesting....0 -
No, you're right the UK PSB channels aren't. No-one knows if RTE will have their psb channels on a channel used in the UK. They don't seem to want to tell anyone anything! Oh, the mystery!
Kilvey Hill went off air last night at around 1.40am, after the movie on BBC1 finished. The signal is producing a different kind of co-channel on my TG4 reception now... ITV moved to the old BBC2 frequency overnight. This will happen from Preseli also.
I'm guessing that Preseli will switch off around 1.40 also next week - allowing for the film on BBC1 to finish! Can't see anyone complaining if that repeated crime programme on ITV is cut off mid flow!0 -
No, you're right the UK PSB channels aren't. No-one knows if RTE will have their psb channels on a channel used in the UK. They don't seem to want to tell anyone anything! Oh, the mystery!
Kilvey Hill went off air last night at around 1.40am, after the movie on BBC1 finished. The signal is producing a different kind of co-channel on my TG4 reception now... ITV moved to the old BBC2 frequency overnight. This will happen from Preseli also.
I'm guessing that Preseli will switch off around 1.40 also next week - allowing for the film on BBC1 to finish! Can't see anyone complaining if that repeated crime programme on ITV is cut off mid flow!
Yes, it will be white noise as CCI now...0 -
http://www.digitaltelevision.ie/Regional++Reception/aouth+east-UK+analogue+switch+off.htm
Although the RTÉ NL site may not have mentioned the switchover situation, the Dept of Comms as added info in the new developments section. They also have updated some of the pages so they all reflect the 2010 DTT Launch. Below is the data. The only issue really is the website is not being properly promoted but that is probably because they would want certainty from the BCI by way of contracts with Onevision signed and agree with them and RTÉ the launch timetable and then start promoting the website as they will want to give the public the best impression and certainty
Analogue Terrestrial Television Switch Off in the United Kingdom – Will You be Affected?
Terrestrial Television is television broadcast from the mountaintop to the viewer who receives it through an aerial. Countries are moving from analogue terrestrial television to digital terrestrial television. Digital terrestrial television uses digital technology to transport the information as a stream of data. This means that more programme channels and other content can be transmitted over a digital terrestrial television network
As part of the United Kingdom’s plan to roll out digital terrestrial television in their jurisdiction, they will be switching off their analogue transmitter in Preseli, Wales. This will be happening in two stages, commencing 19th August 2009 and concluding on 16th September 2009.
This will not affect the reception of RTE1, RTE2, TV3 and TG4 by any Irish household in any manner and there is no requirement to make any change to continue to receive these Irish channels.
Who will this Affect?
This switch off will primarily affect residents along the south east coast of Ireland who have been receiving UK terrestrial television stations through an aerial via over-spill from the transmitters in Wales. It will not affect those people who receive these stations as part of a paid service whether that be via satellite, cable, IPTV (internet protocol television) or MMDS (Multichannel Multipoint Distribution Service).
What Will Happen?
From the 19th of August Irish households in the southeast will no longer be able to receive analogue terrestrial BBC2, and on the 16th of September the remaining UK analogue channels (BBC1, HTV, Channel 4, Channel 5) will switch to digital only. This is happening because the Preseli transmitter in Wales will be changing to a digital platform.
Road ahead for Digital Terrestrial Television in Ireland
The Government is also committed to the provision of Digital Terrestrial Television on both free to air public service channels and other commercial channels. We expect these 2 new services to be available next year on our own digital transmission systems.
Where can I get more information?
http://www.digitaltelevision.ie/
Queries can be emailed to digital.television@dcenr.gov.ie.
Information on the UK switchover process is available at http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/ and http://www.digitaltelevision.gov.uk/0 -
Another doom and gloom article from the Irish Independent stable - The Wexford People about DSO in Wales. Almost a cut and paste from the previous day's Irish Independent.Farewell to free TV from UK
BRITISH PULLING PLUG BUT RTE DIGITAL SERVICE DELAYED
By Conor CULLEN
Wednesday August 12 2009
TELEVISION viewers in Co. Wexford and right across the South East will have to either pay for cable or satellite television to get British channels in the future as the British government is switching off its analogue television signal to Wales.
The residents of the South East were once the envy of the country because they were able to pick up the BBC and ITV television signals before RTE came into existence. However, as the British government is switching off its analogue television signal to Wales in the coming months people in counties Wexford, Wicklow and Waterford will have to either pay for cable or satellite television to get British channels.
A private RTE document estimated that there were still 197,000 people in the country who were dependent on the British television 'spillover' for their free multi-channel viewing.
However, some of these are located in the border counties and are receiving their signal from the North, which is not due to be switched off until 2012.
Labour communications spokesperson Liz McManus said she was concerned at the effect the Welsh switch-off would have on viewers.
'RTE has promised us that people would not lose out, but they clearly are going to lose out with the disaster in relation to Digital Terrestrial Television ( DTT) project,' she said.
The DTT project was meant to provide a free-to-air digital television service, but the private Boxer consortium in charge of rolling it out pulled out of the project last April. RTE has now admitted that it will no longer meet its target of having the service in place by next month.
Ms. McManus, who has raised the issue in the Dáil, said nobody had been able to give her assurances as to what would happen to those losing the British TV signal.
'A lot of them are elderly people who don't know this is going to hit them. This is really quite outrageous,' she said.
Communications Minister Eamon Ryan admitted that the switch-off of the analogue television signal in Wales in the autumn would affect people in the South East of the country.
But he said this was a development that he had no control over and promised that viewers would be able to get British television channels again once the DTT service was made available.
- Conor CULLEN0 -
Again misinformation re people having to pay for cable or satellite television in order to continue receiving UK channels. Have these people never heard of DTT set top boxes/idTV's or of Freesat? What's more do they never read the forums on these boards?0
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Obviously not digifriendly. The only way to remedy that is to email them & point them to this board. I have suggested to RTÉ NL before to keep an eye on the boards site as tuning pad for ensuring clear info later when the wider public get to know about DTT. Since then the RTÉ NL website now makes clear the situation, I can't be sure, but I would say it influenced the current clarity on the website then gives a very good impression to the public about RTÉ NL when later the general public get introduced to DTT. Likewise clarity on the DCENR DTT website is important too and likewise gives a better impression. If I see inaccuracies or conflicting info I generally email. I just wish I got paid to do it lol, as part of the project but its hobby of interest to me so I'm happy to help. End of day, I want to just see it come across well, be successful & feel l did my bit and was part of it.
Bulletin boards like here are useful resources for stakeholders IMO to gauge potential FAQ's & get a feel for potential issues it should address. Onevision should use it as an early cheerleader to recruit subscribers with early deals just before launch like Bord Gáis did with the Big Switch.
I have just emailed Liz McManus providing website links where it is mentioned such as http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2008/1024/1224715113202.html, http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/tv-radio/prepare-for-new-tv-era-that-will--cost-you-more-1441809.html & http://www.digitaltelevision.ie/National+DTT/0 -
More rubbish Journalism.0
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Digifriendly wrote: »Again misinformation re people having to pay for cable or satellite television in order to continue receiving UK channels. Have these people never heard of DTT set top boxes/idTV's or of Freesat? What's more do they never read the forums on these boards?
Who knows, but I've put the fella right. \I got a response too so I'm hoping he'll clarify the situation.. we'll have to read next week's paper to find out!0 -
Who knows, but I've put the fella right. \I got a response too so I'm hoping he'll clarify the situation.. we'll have to read next week's paper to find out!
That's the way to do it, good man marclt. We're better off doing that than just complaining which without the emailing is kinda negative and morale/soul destroying. That way we're more productive and I would point them to here where they can engage with the boards. I also got a reply from the Labour spokesporson. She's aware of Freesat but that the government should be providing the info. The website digitaltelevision.ie mentions the issue but the problem is that the website has not been promoted as the campaign was put back probably awaiting Onevision/BCI/RTENL contracts conclusion before it goes ahead. I'd say its a co-ordination issue the only thing is that the platform group would want to be formed pretty quickly and highlight the website as its first news conference to the media.
I also pointed her to this website which I think will be a help and will ensure she's up to speed on any potential issues to be raised in the Dáil. I receieved a nice reply so fair play.0 -
I also pointed her to this website which I think will be a help and will ensure she's up to speed on any potential issues to be raised in the Dáil. I receieved a nice reply so fair play.
Good man, and of course the Govt. will want to protect the interests of the Irish DTT platform so are unlikely to want to give away details of potential freeview or more guaranteed sat4free/freesat coverage.
It is all coming together too late - but we have been talking about this and putting these views across for quite some time. My main worry will be people signing up to sky or cable (in these difficult times) paying for a service they may not need...0 -
Digifriendly wrote: »Can you verify this? When I lived in Bangor, Co. Down I needed an external aerial with masthead amp (no obstructions either out to Irish Sea) to pick up a decent Cambret Hill signal.
Yes. Border was always the best quality, followed by BBC 1 Scotland.
The BBC Mux is on the old BBC 1 Scotland frequency. BBC 1 Scotland temporary moved to the old BBC 1 Scorland frequency. Going to Bangor again at the end of the week so will let you know more then.0 -
In one summer during the mid nineties, I recall picking up Granada, Central Border and Meridian on top of the usual Wales and TSW/Westcountry. Moving to digital won't be same... to much 'scanning' to be done!!!
Was that 1995?
Over the years I got the following in Bangor:
BBC 1:
Scotland
North West
North East and Cumbria
ITV
Border (Scotland and England versions)
Scottish
Grampian
And the four ROI channels faintly.
I think the lack of regional variations and the fact that all the regions are on satellite these days also makes it less fun!0 -
I've never been able to pick up the Welsh analogue stations here in Waterford City and I have a fairly good outdoor Aeriel, so I suppose I won't be able to pick up the digital ones either. Anyone know if I will or am I too far away from the source?Digifriendly wrote: »"This means that people in counties such as Dublin, Wicklow, Wexford and Waterford will have to either pay for cable or satellite television to get British TV channels."
As pointed out this is totally misleading. No mention of set top boxes or iDTV's nor of FTA Satellite or Freesat. This really needs to be challenged.0 -
I've never been able to pick up the Welsh analogue stations here in Waterford City and I have a fairly good outdoor Aeriel, so I suppose I won't be able to pick up the digital ones either. Anyone know if I will or am I too far away from the source?
Chances are, we will get a signal but it will be affected by weather conditions. Height will also be a major consideration for line-of-sight to Wales. Where are you in the City?
I will be doing tests on Wednesday both in the City and in Tramore to see what we can see. Will post the results on Wed/Thurs.0 -
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Dunmore road not far from Oskars, so I'm fairly low down. Looking forward to your results. Thanks for the reply.Chances are, we will get a signal but it will be affected by weather conditions. Height will also be a major consideration for line-of-sight to Wales. Where are you in the City?
I will be doing tests on Wednesday both in the City and in Tramore to see what we can see. Will post the results on Wed/Thurs.0
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