Arfon or Preseli for digital terestrial-Decision needed soon-Advice please.

I'm actually bringing a humax freeview pvr over the road to a house with a single group B recently fixed to see what I can get.
They've usually good presely analogue with no co channel from cairn hill -though the lack of that is a by the by for this test.

Looks like it will be thursday or friday. before we finish the work here.

I'll jot down what channels appear.

mrdtv

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm actually bringing a humax freeview pvr over the road to a house with a single group B recently fixed to see what I can get.
They've usually good presely analogue with no co channel from cairn hill -though the lack of that is a by the by for this test.

Looks like it will be thursday or friday. before we finish the work here.

I'll jot down what channels appear.

Very interesting. I suspect that the omni coverage, the higher HAAT from Arfon, and the unusual 40kW ERP from Blaen-Plwyf DTT could all be a sinker for Sky's claims. The Cambret Hill receivability on set-top aerials in East Down tells you that analogue receivability is likely to be replicated by the DTT high power system in spades. Why would you bother with Mr M if you had high power Freeview or a backstop Freesat for access to UK DTT channels? This is shaping up as a seminal DTT trial in the South East given that Preseli is going up by 13dB in August on its current DTT configuration.

Is blaenplwyf digital going to be shielded to the west with this 40kw erp?
We get the analogues from that here even with the shielding and on a group B.
I'm aware of people near roundwood that use it.

marclt

Deleted User wrote: »

Is blaenplwyf digital going to be shielded to the west with this 40kw erp?
We get the analogues from that here even with the shielding and on a group B.
I'm aware of people near roundwood that use it.

Maybe I'll email Ofcom...

Wow
74 to 79db on the analogs with just the mast head amp
76 digital channels coming in from presely not counting the irish.
Sony says signal strength on those is very high.

No sky news.
No co channel on the analogs either.They are absolutely like mirrors,completely crystal clear.
I think this is the first time the twins have been on presely.
Last time we used presely here it was at chimney height.
Now we are taking in presely from 60ft above the chimney wit a view out to sea.

lucernarian

Congrats. I assume the Preslei multiplexes are running on full steam?? Well that's your DSO problems solved:D

I think we'll have less luck when Kilkeel changes over...

They won't be on full steam untill late september.
What I have today is on an erp of between 1 and 2k from a tx thats about 90 miles away across the sea or more.

The Humax is working now in the kitchen with signal strength of 71% and quality of 100%

It's been a long day and I've loads more to do so will update this later.

Digifriendly

mrdtv wrote: »

Very interesting. I suspect that the omni coverage, the higher HAAT from Arfon, and the unusual 40kW ERP from Blaen-Plwyf DTT could all be a sinker for Sky's claims. The Cambret Hill receivability on set-top aerials in East Down tells you that analogue receivability is likely to be replicated by the DTT high power system in spades. Why would you bother with Mr M if you had high power Freeview or a backstop Freesat for access to UK DTT channels? This is shaping up as a seminal DTT trial in the South East given that Preseli is going up by 13dB in August on its current DTT configuration.

Can you verify this? When I lived in Bangor, Co. Down I needed an external aerial with masthead amp (no obstructions either out to Irish Sea) to pick up a decent Cambret Hill signal.

mrdtv

Digifriendly wrote: »

Can you verify this? When I lived in Bangor, Co. Down I needed an external aerial with masthead amp (no obstructions either out to Irish Sea) to pick up a decent Cambret Hill signal.

Take a look back up the postings in this thread from the one posted by Richard. Lazy?

mrdtv

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Congrats. I assume the Preslei multiplexes are running on full steam?? Well that's your DSO problems solved:D

I think we'll have less luck when Kilkeel changes over...

Kilkeel is also an omni. Digital UK's web site reports it will be received on the IOM easily after 2012 (you need to know relevant postcodes to input in the trade version of the web site): PSB DTT coverage is designed to replicate analogue after DSO.

Lol...I have a new problem.
Presely is so strong,it's actually blotting out Mount Leinster digital for me...

I didn't think I'd have that problem lol.

heh! I'm not too worried

All channels are still around 70% signal and 100% quality and the analogues are crystal , despite the fact that it is raining outside.

Galway

cant wait to see sum pics of ur setup.. wen u can

lucernarian

DTT won't replicate fuzzy analogue coverage, unless you're in Ireland lol.

We usually lose either 2 or 4 channels for up to a few hours each day recently. Probably because of temperature gradients in the air over the sea at dawn and dusk. High pressure also worsens reception, but at least allows Caldbeck as a replacement.

At an estimate, received signal strength (ignoring the masthead amp) is 30dBuV normally. Teletext works almost normally on BBC1, but it's also very snowy. Teletext rarely works on the others.

To_be_confirmed

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

At an estimate, received signal strength (ignoring the masthead amp) is 30dBuV normally. Teletext works almost normally on BBC1, but it's also very snowy. Teletext rarely works on the others.

What kind of aerial are you using? You might need a twin set up and you'd be surprised thedifference replacing the cable run with some ct100 will do.

Theres at least one house almost on Wicklow head believe it or not pulling in good analogue from kilkeel!
Thats just 15 miles north of me.It's against the odds yes but happening-presumably because wicklow head is at a height jutting into the sea as is the location of kilkeel and the likes of howth isn't affecting it due to the distance south deminishing that shadow effect.
Mind you kilkeel also gets through to Sandyford and Dalket/Kiliney so Howth mustn't be in the path.


Meanwhile analogues crystal here from presely again this morning and absolutely no cairn hill co channel and the freeview channels are working as yesterday.
It might be a week or more before I post pictures as my good camera is not to hand at the moment.
I also want to see if I can get the dtt on the lap top [means more searching for that gear!] so as to post screen grabs

mrdtv

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

DTT won't replicate fuzzy analogue coverage, unless you're in Ireland lol.

We usually lose either 2 or 4 channels for up to a few hours each day recently. Probably because of temperature gradients in the air over the sea at dawn and dusk. High pressure also worsens reception, but at least allows Caldbeck as a replacement.

At an estimate, received signal strength (ignoring the masthead amp) is 30dBuV normally. Teletext works almost normally on BBC1, but it's also very snowy. Teletext rarely works on the others.

Have you tried high gain aerials like the Fracarro and CT100 with a masthead: amazing results. You should also try for Caldbeck DTT: the BBC DSO mux is on 100kW and the rest are to follow at the end of the month. There's a report on DS that Port St Mary, IOM, is being received in East N. Ireland easily, although that's a vertical relay station.

lucernarian

CT100 all the way to masthead amp, and an antiference distribution amp inside to bring it around the house. Noise figure of 1.9dB for masthead and distribution each.

Geography is the real problem. South Louth has its share of hills (BB, you might remember reports of snowfall where other east coast areas had sleet). Where I am, 10 metres lower would prevent Kilkeel reception and 10 metres higher would have quite decent reception. So we're in an awkward spot, and the aerial pole is as long as I'd like it on a 7ft high chinmey. Any higher would end up involving guy wires.

Aerial improvements can be made (probably a total gain of 5dB to be had by changing it and also making small height and direction adjustments.

But it's complicated by the fact that the one aerial is also used for Clermont Carn, and we're far enough north so that the direcivity of the aerial has an effect. To allow best possible reception, I'd need combiners for Kippure which has a very good signal. Cairn hill is better but is also Group B.

DXing is hard to do when you can pick up 5 main RTE transmitters with a grid aerial from the roof and with right polarity. Trees cause ghosting with the Divis signal, and it offers only slightly more strength anyway.

Edit: What channel is the caldbeck BBC A mux on?? If it's 25, that's good news. One of the few freeish (thanks Brougher Mountain) channels on the TV. The one time I saw freeview here was in High pressure conditions on Ch. 25 from Caldbeck. Also, very sorry for hijacking the thread! As you were...

marclt

Fantastic Black Briar! Sounds like you have a great set up there. Proves that Mt. Leinster isn't on full power at the moment... maybe they are powering down now the test has been tested!

Just wondering what aerial might be a good bet for my folks in Wexford. They'd prefer something small... so doesn't anyone have any experience of this:

http://www.grax.co.uk/P/FRACARRO-SIGMA-6HD-UHF-21-67(1350).aspx

Ultimately, their location suffers from co-channel with Cairn hill (despite being in Wexford town) so that would need to factored in.

Mayo Exile

Edit: What channel is the caldbeck BBC A mux on?? If it's 25, that's good news. One of the few freeish (thanks Brougher Mountain) channels on the TV. The one time I saw freeview here was in High pressure conditions on Ch. 25 from Caldbeck.

According to this Adobe PDF document from Ofcom, Mux A (BBC) is on ch. 25.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv/ifi/tech/dsodetails/Border_DSO_v5.0.pdf

On page 2.

marclt

marclt wrote: »

Fantastic Black Briar! Sounds like you have a great set up there. Proves that Mt. Leinster isn't on full power at the moment... maybe they are powering down now the test has been tested!

Just wondering what aerial might be a good bet for my folks in Wexford. They'd prefer something small... so doesn't anyone have any experience of this:

http://www.grax.co.uk/P/FRACARRO-SIGMA-6HD-UHF-21-67(1350).aspx

Ultimately, their location suffers from co-channel with Cairn hill (despite being in Wexford town) so that would need to factored in.

Mt Leinster has appeared on the Bravia today,it must have autotuned it as BBC one Wales was on 001 and now thats moved to the 800's whilst RTE 1 etc took up residence in the top positions.
They are weak though showing low power on the signal test whereas the presely channels show high power.
I suspect the tv did a software update as this past 2 days is the first time it's been perma connected to UK DTT.
I also suspect that Mt Leinster DTT was just carrying a blank channel yesterday.

Even if your parents in wexford have co channel on analogue presely,that wont matter as the DTT channels wont be affected by cairn hill.
It will be as it it doesnt exist.

As regards the aerial,I'd like more elements than that.
However ,I know similar aerials are bringing in good analogue and dtt in North wexford.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Mt Leinster has appeared on the Bravia today,it must have autotuned it as BBC one Wales was on 001 and now thats moved to the 800's whilst RTE 1 etc took up residence in the top positions.
They are weak though showing low power on the signal test whereas the presely channels show high power.
I suspect the tv did a software update as this past 2 days is the first time it's been perma connected to UK DTT.
I also suspect that Mt Leinster DTT was just carrying a blank channel yesterday.

On further investigation,the RTE stuff is coming from Kippure and not mt Leinster which would explain why it's showing as low power.
The audio on the radio channels sometimes breaks up.
Presely is still showing Mt Leinster who's boss

I've also discovered that the bravia allows me to sort all the digital channells anyway I like.
Now that is Neat!

marclt

Hi BB
I'm on the island at the moment. Last night when I arrived analogue from Preseli was great. Today however, suffering quite a bit from co-channel and generally grainy!

The set up could do with new cabling... but I'm wondering is all that worth it when a freesat box is just £50!

Bit of a shame to see that big mast coming down tho!
M

Digifriendly

On slightly different tack I was at the golf at Turnberry yesterday on a organised boat/coach trip and noticed a remarkable number of aerials from Stranraer up to Turnberry all pointing for Divis. Going through Girvan it seemed as if every house had an aerial for NI. Have also seen aerials as far north as Troon for NI. Also noticed a high number of satellite dishes.

marclt

marclt wrote: »

Hi BB
I'm on the island at the moment. Last night when I arrived analogue from Preseli was great. Today however, suffering quite a bit from co-channel and generally grainy!

The set up could do with new cabling... but I'm wondering is all that worth it when a freesat box is just £50!

Bit of a shame to see that big mast coming down tho!
M

No co channel at all here.
Presely is fluctuating a bit here this evening.
Mostly good on the analogues and then for a few seconds it drops down but literally only for a few seconds.
Even when it does that,theres no co channel.

The DTT very briefly on the likes of E4 dips to 30% for a minute or two and then back up to 60% within seconds.
It's had very little effect on watching the channels.They just go to a quick break up for those 30 seconds and then perfect.
It's not happening at all on BBC one for instance but a little bit on ITV 1
We're watching Monster in law on E4 at the moment with no interuption and it's lashing rain.

Digifriendly

Digifriendly wrote: »

On slightly different tack I was at the golf at Turnberry yesterday on a organised boat/coach trip and noticed a remarkable number of aerials from Stranraer up to Turnberry all pointing for Divis. Going through Girvan it seemed as if every house had an aerial for NI. Have also seen aerials as far north as Troon for NI. Also noticed a high number of satellite dishes.

Yeah,the channel is so narrow there.
I've driven that road and for the trip,you have the Belfast local radio stations with RDS on the radio which kind of screams short sea path and no Earth curvature shadows in reception

@marclt

The fluctuation has stopped now,the analogues are like an absolute mirror.
Those fluxes only lasted less than a minute every 5 or 10 minutes during the rain anyway.

@marclt - It all depends on what you want.You ,yourself would probably like the aerial and having presely but it mightn't make much difference to your parents.
A run of ct100 and a new masthead amp and psu might work wonders.

Regarding the analogue co channel,I'm fascinated at how it used be such a problem here a few years ago but it seems the twins at that height on presely have entered a dip in the cairn hill signal.
They've been messing with the cairn hill analogue signal lately too though as I've read on here that it's on lower power.
It can stay that way for another 2 months as far as I'm concerned :pac:

marclt

Deleted User wrote: »

@marclt - It all depends on what you want.You ,yourself would probably like the aerial and having presely but it mightn't make much difference to your parents.
A run of ct100 and a new masthead amp and psu might work wonders.

Regarding the analogue co channel,I'm fascinated at how it used be such a problem here a few years ago but it seems the twins at that height on presely have entered a dip in the cairn hill signal.
They've been messing with the cairn hill analogue signal lately too though as I've read on here that it's on lower power.
It can stay that way for another 2 months as far as I'm concerned :pac:

I've advised them to take a rain-check until switchover begins, the mast is quite high and they'd prefer to be shot of it i think (but the dx part of me quite likes it being there ;-))

I have noticed though that the co-channel is less than it was - so they have obviously been doing some work. Will suss out some other aerials that might be useful... and the cabling definately needs re-doing too.

Amazing how the signal can fluctuate though. We used to have the problem of too much signal during the summer.. which brought it's problems too.

marclt

marclt wrote: »

Amazing how the signal can fluctuate though. We used to have the problem of too much signal during the summer.. which brought it's problems too.

Tommorow will be the test with all the rain thats coming.

We've a problem with too much signal here from presely analogue as it is and have had to fit an attenuator past the distribution amplifier dropping the signal down about 20db's or so :eek:

One of the TV's is getting a direct feed,so it has no problem.

You've got a pm by the way.

marclt

I thought about setting up another thread just for us to chat about the switchover at Preseli.. starting in 16 days..

This might be useful for anyone wanting to know the ins and outs of the process...

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/34925/Installer_Newsletter_Preseli__1_month_out_FINAL_24July_09.pdf

mrdtv

marclt wrote: »

I thought about setting up another thread just for us to chat about the switchover at Preseli.. starting in 16 days..

This might be useful for anyone wanting to know the ins and outs of the process...

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/34925/Installer_Newsletter_Preseli__1_month_out_FINAL_24July_09.pdf

Note how lazy DUK are. The relays are attributed to the Caradon Hill group in the text when they are Preseli relays! A useless UK quango.

marclt

mrdtv wrote: »

Note how lazy DUK are. The relays are attributed to the Caradon Hill group in the text when they are Preseli relays! A useless UK quango.

Yeah, I didn't pick up on it the first time... only noticed it when posting. I've seen similar inaccuracies in Ofcom's stuff...

Still, we'll be switched over here soon enough!