Scientology

watty

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/americas/journalist-claims-scientologists-persuaded-fox-to-sack-him-1775186.html

This is one "Conspiracy Theory" that might just get proved.

So far the score is:

Scientology "proves" their E-Meter works and Xenu stuff true = 0

Others Prove Bad Things Scientology has officially done = LOTS.

reunion

Though Friedman has yet to produce any factual evidence beyond his own recollection to back up his version of his sacking in April,

Seems like he wants to get in the paper...

but if he is writing negitivly about scientology and not critising other religions he is attacking just the one religion, which im sure is ground for his termination.

I for one think scientologists are crazy to be believing such nonsence but tbh, i can't say scientology is true or if it is false, you just don't know, much like you can't prove god exists.

Mahatma coat

watty wrote: »

linkeh

This is one "Conspiracy Theory" that might just get proved.

So far the score is:

religion "proves" their hocuspocus works and GOD stuff true = 0

Others Prove Bad Things Religion has officially due = LOTS.

FYP

and NO, its another one where no matter how much proof you provide belief overrides it



Yes I am aware that there may be some Irony in the above posting

espinolman

reunion wrote: »

I for one think scientologists are crazy to be believing such nonsence but tbh, i can't say scientology is true or if it is false, you just don't know, much like you can't prove god exists.

I find that people invent beliefs and put them on the internet and then say scientologists believe in this and that , you could make up just about anything and then say scientologists believe in it , well that does'nt make it true . Maybe those who accuse scientologists of believing in xenu , believe in this themselves , and are trying to promote their belief by insinuating scientologists believe in it.

The thing i can't understand , people try to say scientologists believe in this and that , you know why can't they ask scientologists what they believe , it just goes to show that the internet can convince people of anything , does'nt matter if it is true or not , as long as people have something to talk about they don't care if it is true or not , like don't ask them what they believe , no just make it up and rant and rave , and rant and rave , and rant and rave ............................. and they ya ya ya ya ya ya they are this and that and thats what them scientologists (jews) believe in and they put pictures of rats on german newspapers to compare them to jews eating away at the foundations of society in the 30s and they done it again in the 90s to scientologists , they put pictures of rats in german newspapers comparing scientologists to rats , same propaganda techniques ,same operation they done to the jews .

dvpower

espinolman wrote: »

Its looks to me that scientology is about undoing BS beliefs which people learned billions and trillions of years ago

Like the belief that people existed billions and trillions of years ago?:rolleyes:

dvpower

Hey look - that particular BS belief has been edited out. ^

You have to hand it to Scientology - it works fast.

espinolman

watty wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/americas/journalist-claims-scientologists-persuaded-fox-to-sack-him-1775186.html

This is one "Conspiracy Theory" that might just get proved.
.

I don't see the conspiracy in this , Fox says Roger Friedman was dismissed for encouraging readers to download an illegally pirated version of the 20th Century Fox blockbuster X-Men Origins: Wolverine.

Where is the conspiracy here !

Jazzy

i still think that scientology is basically Ulysses 31 with worse animation

reunion

espinolman wrote: »

I find that people invent beliefs and put them on the internet and then say scientologists believe in this and that , you could make up just about anything and then say scientologists believe in it , well that does'nt make it true . Maybe those who accuse scientologists of believing in xenu , believe in this themselves , and are trying to promote their belief by insinuating scientologists believe in it.

The thing i can't understand , people try to say scientologists believe in this and that , you know why can't they ask scientologists what they believe , it just goes to show that the internet can convince people of anything , does'nt matter if it is true or not , as long as people have something to talk about they don't care if it is true or not , like don't ask them what they believe , no just make it up and rant and rave , and rant and rave , and rant and rave ............................. and they ya ya ya ya ya ya they are this and that and thats what them scientologists (jews) believe in and they put pictures of rats on german newspapers to compare them to jews eating away at the foundations of society in the 30s and they done it again in the 90s to scientologists , they put pictures of rats in german newspapers comparing scientologists to rats , same propaganda techniques ,same operation they done to the jews .

you know you must be a member of the church of scientology to have access to what the scientologists believe? you also have to pay an annual fee along with taking an E reading which determines your level (with the bottom knowing almost nothing and the top knowing everything). Hence the lawsuits for leaked chapters of scientologiests online.

The problem everyone has is with the church of scientology and the way it acts, not the beliefs, but everyone associates it with scientology the religion as opposed to the church.

espinolman

reunion wrote: »

The problem everyone has is with the church of scientology and the way it acts, not the beliefs, but everyone associates it with scientology the religion as opposed to the church.

In the above could you please enlighten us as to who 'everyone' is ?

That's a generality to say everyone , that could be anyone you know , who is that ?

Let me know who that is .

espinolman

See this , apparently Roger Friedman thinks he was fired for other reasons as well :

“Roger thinks that Fox News used the Wolverine scandal as an excuse to fire him, but they really wanted to get him out because they are a Republican news organization who is anti-gay,”

Quote from:

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgawker.com%2F5118586%2F&ei=eYg-StezH4LMjAfzqpki&usg=AFQjCNEKZ-DY3jwXaFkPJ_Z7myiXkNLCOA&sig2=L2ncSwMGpvSWuBGNFIk1sg

watty

espinolman wrote: »

In the above could you please enlighten us as to who 'everyone' is ?

That's a generality to say everyone , that could be anyone you know , who is that ?

Let me know who that is .

Practically everyone on the outside of Scientology that has spent more than 10min researching it. Many countries rightly don't accept it as a religion and L Ron Hubbard is on record to other science fiction Authors that inventing a religion is more lucrative than writing.

What ever you think about Mohammed, Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, Buddha, Yeshua Ben Josef, Moshe, Parshvanatha or Bal Gangadhar Tilak, unlike L. Ron Hubbard they were not in it for the Money.

espinolman

watty wrote: »

Many countries rightly don't accept it as a religion and L Ron Hubbard is on record to other science fiction Authors that inventing a religion is more lucrative than writing.

L ron hubbard never said that , its just more dis-info .

You say 'many countries' well do you mean by this states' , now is it right for the state to decide what is religious and what is not religious !

Do you think it is right for authoritarians to decide what is religious?

You know what i think , certain authoritarians don't believe that we are all immortal spiritual beings therefore they don't recognize scientology as a religion.

So they decide this is not a religion .

Is'nt this a great world we are living in , where authoritarian PFBs try to decide what we are supposed to believe in.:mad:

espinolman

watty wrote: »

Practically everyone on the outside of Scientology that has spent more than 10min researching it.

Herbert Richardson , professor of religious studies , university of toronto , ontario , canada says Scientology is a religion :

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=8&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.neuereligion.de%2FENG%2FRichardson%2Findex.htm&ei=X8U-Sun-J9erjAfb_-UM&usg=AFQjCNGbSUQEAc9RkeNjx-yDBoj1AKX9Hw&sig2=TcuXYm5n28_iAdGyIapkpw

So who is this 'everyone ' !

6th

He said "practically" everyone.

espinolman

watty wrote: »

L Ron Hubbard is on record to other science fiction Authors that inventing a religion is more lucrative than writing.

"Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion"

George Orwell wrote the above quote in a letter to a colleague in 1938 , it was George Orwell that said it not L.Ron Hubbard .

George Orwell also said "I have always thought there might be a lot of cash in starting a new religion..."

It was not L.Ron Hubbard that said it.

This was proven in a court case and can be found in the ruling of County Court Munich I, dated 22 October 1982, which held that these statements could not be attributed to Mr. Hubbard as it was proven that he did not make them.

Ron initially wrote all Dianetics materials from a strictly non-religious, therapeutic viewpoint. If he were out to start a religion, wouldn't he have done that straightaway !

indough

have any of you seen 'the profit'? its quite hard to get hold of a copy but its a good watch

dvpower

espinolman wrote: »

It was not L.Ron Hubbard that said it.

This was proven in a court case and can be found in the ruling of County Court Munich I, dated 22 October 1982, which held that these statements could not be attributed to Mr. Hubbard as it was proven that he did not make them.

Do you have a link to some source documents on this? I'd like to see a proof that someone didn't say something.

The quote is attributed to Hubbard by various sources here

humanji

Out of curiosity espinolman, are you a scientologist?

6th

If you have a question about someones personal life then send a PM. Espinolman, you of course, may answer if you like but are under no obligation.

humanji

Sorry about that. I'm just curious as to why he defends it so vehemently.

Personally, scientology is a conspiracy that I believe in, but I'm not sure if it qualifies as one. They act in the same way we're told an NWO would act. They seem to use tactics ranging from physical threats to legal threats and their followers can act in truly fanatical fashion.

But, that said and even taking into account that they're not beyond coercion, it looks like Friedman was fired for advocating piracy. Although, if I did something as monumentally stupid as pirating a movie and advertising the fact to the world, I'd probably blame scientology for it too!

espinolman

dvpower wrote: »

Do you have a link to some source documents on this? I'd like to see a proof that someone didn't say something.

Both David A. kyle and Jay Kay klein signed affidavids that the incident where L.Ron Hubbard is rumoured to have said 'The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion ' at the meeting of the eastern science fiction association on november the 7th 1948 , did not take place and here are links to three affidavids they signed :

http://www.scientologymyths.info/l-ron-hubbard/docs/david-kyle-affidavit.html

http://www.scientologymyths.info/l-ron-hubbard/docs/jay-kay-klein-affidavit.html

http://www.scientologymyths.info/l-ron-hubbard/docs/david-kyle-affidavit2.html

watty

Arthur C. Clarke (or perhaps Asimov) mentioned L.Ron Hubbard saying something like it to him.

I'll take Clarke's/Asimov's word for it rather than some shill of Scientology. He may not have used the exact phrase.

It's also true that Scientology employs people to "fix" the Internet to suit their views. Hence recently Wikipedia had to ban known Scientology IPs.

David A. Kyle and Jay Kay Klein signed affidavids were defeated in Court in Germany in a case Scientology took against Stern.

The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction lists Sam Moskowitz as the first good historian of science fiction [among other things]. In 1994 Moskowitz wrote an affidavit which states:

"After speaking for about an hour at the meeting, Mr. Hubbard answered questions from the audience. He made the following statement in response to a question about making money from writing: `You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion.'"

The affidavit states that this was the 7 Nov 1948 meeting of the Eastern Science Fiction Association, of which Moskowitz was the director.

Now, there is a problem with the three Moskowitz reports. Specifically, the Church obtained affidavits in 1993 from David A. Kyle and Jay Kay Klein. Both names are well-known in science fiction, and both say that they went to the 7 Nov 1948 talk by Hubbard. Both say that they didn't hear any such statement. Puzzling.

I believe that these dueling affidavits have met in court. Stern, a German magazine, was sued by the Church, and the suit was thrown out of court after they obtained the Moskowitz affidavit.

On 9apr94, jittlov@gumby.cs.caltech.edu (Mike Jittlov) posted (about a conversation with Theodore Sturgeon):

Back in the 1940's, L. Ron Hubbard was a member of the Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society (when its old clubhouse was just north of Wilshire Blvd). Ted vividly recalled being a few yards from Hubbard, when he became testy with someone there and retorted, "Y'know, we're all wasting our time writing this hack science fiction! You wanta make _real_ money, you gotta start a _religion_!

Though I didn't ask, I think Ted would've mentioned it if the second person was Heinlein or another author of note. He had an extremely accurate memory, and I'd trust Sturgeon over anyone else's account.

Reportedly Sturgeon also told this story to others. Theodore Sturgeon was one of the truly great science fiction writers, and someone whose word and memories were trusted. (John W. Campbell commented that Sturgeon should have written the definitive history of SF fandom.) Mike Jittlov is a respected Hollywood filmmaker and stopmotion actor, and can be found on the net at "alt.fan.mike-jittlov".

Lloyd Arthur Eshbach was a science fiction writer and publisher between 1929 and 1957. His autobiography, says on pages 125 and 126 (about the events of 1948 and 1949):

I think of the time while in New York I took John W. Campbell Marty Greenberg, and L. Ron Hubbard to lunch. Someone suggested a Swedish smorgasbord, and I had my first--and last--taste of kidney. Yuck! Afterward we wound up in my hotel room for related conversation.

The incident is stamped indelibly in my mind because of one statement that Ron Hubbard made. What led him to say what he did I can't recall--but in so many words Hubbard said:

"I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is!"

Eshbach based his autobiography on detailed records and dated diary entries, and is therefore likely to be quite accurate on this point.

From http://www.bible.ca/scientology-1million-start-a-religion.htm
So we have a significant number of well respected Authors that confirm Hubbard's intention to start a religion.
Dianetics and the E-Meter are pseudo-science with no proven clinical value.


Why do you think they have to do this here ?

Talk:Church of Scientology
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Nehaxak

Scientology is the only reason I refuse to buy and use DisKeeper disk defrag for my PC. Rotten stinking cult that should be outright banned worldwide.
It's not a religion, it is and always was/will be a dangerous cult.

watty

How does this relate to Scientology?

dvpower

You said:

espinolman wrote:

It was not L.Ron Hubbard that said it.

This was proven in a court case and can be found in the ruling of County Court Munich I, dated 22 October 1982, which held that these statements could not be attributed to Mr. Hubbard as it was proven that he did not make them.

When I asked you for source documents for this claim, you give me some affidavits signed in New York; not proof, not even a court ruling.

Do you have proof evidence to back up your claims (or did you just cut and paste the above from some website)?

espinolman

dvpower wrote: »

You said:



When I asked you for source documents for this claim, you give me some affidavits signed in New York; not proof, not even a court ruling.

Do you have proof evidence to back up your claims (or did you just cut and paste the above from some website)?

You know i could not be bothered with this thread any more because they have resorted to using similar tactics to what they use in nazi germany to attack scientologists in this thread , you know we were discussing a new religion here and now there are posters posting not to buy certain products.
Its nazi-like tactics and i am having nothing to do with it .

watty

Classic Usenet.

espinolman Plays the Nazi card


Actually what we start discussing was it a conspiracy to Sack a Journalist?

In a conspiracy as contorted as the plot of one of their action movies, Tom Cruise and John Travolta have been accused of persuading Rupert Murdoch's Fox News to sack an influential entertainment journalist who had a history of criticising the Church of Scientology.

Or was he sacked because he kept doing stupid stuff?

It's actually a red herring as to the merits of Scientology or if it's a Religion, or if Religion in General is a good or bad thing.

Maybe he was going to get the boot anyway. But it begs large questions if Tom Cruise and John Travolta did "suggest" that he should be "let go".

Scientology may seem like amusing 3rd rate L. Ron Hubbard "Space Opera" to some. It may or may not be a Religion even if Hubbard did start it for the Money. But the evidence seems to me that they do harass and seek to damage the interests of those that speak or write against them

Google "Suppressive Persons"
Google "fair game"
Goolge "Scientology harassment"

(keep the quotes).

Does a Conspiracy sound beleiveable?

watty

Actually it's a reasonable thing for an individual to boycott a Company he doesn't agree with.

It's more of a bad thing for someone to lose their job because someone that is unconnected with who you work for wants rid of you. That is more like life under a repressive regime such as NAZIs or Stalinists.

humanji

In fairness, there's a hell of a lot of evidence against scientology that warrants peoples suspicions. As for the quote, Hubbard had said before, when he first opened up dianetics to paying customers "Let's sell these people a piece of blue sky." I'd say from the context that the other quotes are attributed to him as they follow the same vain.

On a side note, you can get a lot of the scientology literature from wikileaks.org. It makes for some interesting reading.

dvpower

espinolman wrote: »

Its nazi-like tactics and i am having nothing to do with it .

Godwin's law demonstrated in just two pages; well done!