Funny deal done

DAMO72

OK, down to heads up in the club last nite when the short stack asks for a deal and the chipleader say's ok i'll take €250 and you take €110 to which the shorty agrees to without thinking .
First place was €240 and 2nd was €120. (What a deal).
Anyone else experience anything like this . Should the house intervene??

tipp86

Yes, house should intervene. If the deal meant that second place got a euro extra than second place house should say nothing, its not there business but i think in this case there should be an intervention.

nVid

Funny as fcuk!

Who ever offered the deal is a shark.

cardshark202

CL should have pushed for more

cokedrinker

should pokerstars intervene when johnnynoname gets it in on the turn with a gutshot on a 4 flush board? He has equity in the pot but is not getting close the correct odds to call.

word up to the nukkas that take the deal!!!! negative equity ftw, is there such thing in poker, i dunno? These guys are gut tho... .go the poker

eamonngilroy

First class deal in my opinion.:D:D
If anyone wants help negotiating just send me a PM.

DAMO72

eamonngilroy wrote: »

First class deal in my opinion.:D:D
If anyone wants help negotiating just send me a PM.

Brilliant Just Brilliant

califano

Not a good thing to happen to encourage a player back especially if its a new player to the live scene. Particularly if theres a whoopin and a hollerin going on after its made.
This is one instance i believe house should 'remind' the players that 2nd place pays €120.

big_iain

Damo,

I go along with it is the players money and the house shouldn't interfere. The house should read out a make the players aware how much is in the pot and the current prize payouts.

This is an angel shoot imo.

How can you pay out less to second than is available already.

The house's responsibility does cover to run the game in fairness and maintain the rules.
This protects the newbie hitting the tables. I think you have let him down.


If the guy who was cheated finds out could bring bad press on your club. It looks as though the house conspires to cheat this guy out of €10.
The last thing you want in a new club. The idea that things arn't fair and above board.

The guy was probably tired, playing later than his bed time. Short stacked with a lack of experience it all got the better of him. You should have protected him.

Not everybody has the experience of you and Eamon.

DAMO72

big_iain wrote: »

Damo,

I go along with it is the players money and the house shouldn't interfere. The house should read out a make the players aware how much is in the pot and the current prize payouts.

This is an angel shoot imo.

How can you pay out less to second than is available already.

The house's responsibility does cover to run the game in fairness and maintain the rules.
This protects the newbie hitting the tables. I think you have let him down.


If the guy who was cheated finds out could bring bad press on your club. It looks as though the house conspires to cheat this guy out of €10.
The last thing you want in a new club. The idea that things arn't fair and above board.

The guy was probably tired, playing later than his bed time. Short stacked with a lack of experience it all got the better of him. You should have protected him.

Not everybody has the experience of you and Eamon.

Iain the player in question has just as much experience as you or I . He has been in the club most nites since I opened and has cashed every nite by either winning outright or brokering deals to to his benefit . He was fully aware of the payout structure and there was no pulling of wool over anyones eyes.
I posted this here to see if there was any1 else with a similar experience. The player realised after what he had just done and accepted it in good humour as a brainfart on his behalf.

tipp86

Well if you intervene for a new player whos clueless you should have done the same for this guy. Its like one rule for one and one for another.

DAMO72

tipp86 wrote: »

Well if you intervene for a new player whos clueless you should have done the same for this guy. Its like one rule for one and one for another.

Jaysus im sorry i posted this now , It was meant to be a bit of light hearted fun. But your right , i will rule with an iron fist from now on:rolleyes:

eamonngilroy

big_iain wrote: »

Damo,

I go along with it is the players money and the house shouldn't interfere. The house should read out a make the players aware how much is in the pot and the current prize payouts.

This is an angel shoot imo.

How can you pay out less to second than is available already.

The house's responsibility does cover to run the game in fairness and maintain the rules.
This protects the newbie hitting the tables. I think you have let him down.


If the guy who was cheated finds out could bring bad press on your club. It looks as though the house conspires to cheat this guy out of €10.
The last thing you want in a new club. The idea that things arn't fair and above board.

The guy was probably tired, playing later than his bed time. Short stacked with a lack of experience it all got the better of him. You should have protected him.

Not everybody has the experience of you and Eamon.

Iain

1. I'd like to make it clear i have nothing against angels

2. The player was far from inexperienced and definitely not playing later than his bed time :D (he is a very well known player on the Monaghan/ Cavan circuit who i wont embarrass by naming.)

3. In my own defence when I was asked for a deal I was unaware of the original payout structure and suggested I take €250 because it was a round figure. This left €110 for second place which considering i had 90% of the chips in play i thought was a fair offer.

4. I would like to make it clear that this deal was done between myself and the other player, Damo had no input whatsoever. The game and the evening in general was enjoyed by everyone present.

5. There is no bad feeling between myself and the player in question, we have always had good banter between us and I'm sure that will continue. He realized that it was unintentional on my part and in no way felt cheated.

6. I understand that as an upstanding member of the poker community you may feel the desire to voice your opinion but unless you were present I don't see how you could accuse me of angle shooting. I would appreciate it in future if you got your facts straight before making such accusations.

dannydiamond

eamonngilroy wrote: »

First class deal in my opinion.:D:D
If anyone wants help negotiating just send me a PM.

Why in gods name would you try and screw someone out of a tenner?

eamonngilroy

dannydiamond wrote: »

Why in gods name would you try and screw someone out of a tenner?

OMG is it not yet clear that NOBODY tried to screw anyone??????

big_iain

eamonngilroy wrote: »

I

6. I understand that as an upstanding member of the poker community you may feel the desire to voice your opinion but unless you were present I don't see how you could accuse me of angle shooting. I would appreciate it in future if you got your facts straight before making such accusations.

Who accused you, i didn't realise it was you until now. Either way the question is whether the house should intervene.

Yes it should, clearly neither the chipleader or the shortstack knew the prize pool.

Based on the facts presented it was an angle shoot..

dannydiamond

eamonngilroy wrote: »

OMG is it not yet clear that NOBODY tried to screw anyone??????

Explained well in fairness.:rolleyes:

Pabloh

When did either player or the house realise that second was getting less than set out in the original structure? If it was before the cash had been handed over then it's extremely bad form not to at least pay out the full second place money. May not have been an angle shoot at the time but if I was the person getting first place money I'd definitely ensure I gave them the correct amount. Would still be inclined to mock them for accepting the deal though.

lillou

Yeah I think that once the realisation was made, the extra money should have been handed over.
I think that publicising on boards that it was you who took the €250 is obviously going to get you on the receiving end of boardsies opinions, and like any debate its not going to be all people applauding you. Especially when you said: pm me if you need help negotiating. It may have been written as a joke but could be seen to imply that you were angleshooting when you made the deal.

Scouser in Dub

This is not an angle at all the guy is perfectly entitled to offer any deal at any time and it's up to the other player to accept or not.

Well played chip leader imo and it's even better that the other guy took it as he should when he realised his brain fart.

On a similar note PS has actually offered deals 3 handed when the chip leader has been offered more than 1st place prize money because of the way they add the monies together and divide them according to stacks. His commanding chip lead has resulted in the chop being more than 1st place money. If the other players let this slide dont remark it is nothing to do with anyone but them

Flushdraw

DAMO72 wrote: »

He was fully aware of the payout structure and there was no pulling of wool over anyones eyes.

Obv not the case Damo!

eamonngilroy wrote: »

OMG is it not yet clear that NOBODY tried to screw anyone??????

Unless you gave him the €10 back, you screwed him out of money.

He probably deserves it though. Anyone that willingly takes €110 v €250 headsup whether you've a 9-1 chip lead or not isn't playing with the full deck.

I've been involved in, and seen lots of deals done at final tables. It ALWAYS involves someone sitting with the prize details on front of them, someone reading it from the board, the TD calling it out or some other way, but i've never seen a deal done and accepted without the prizepool being discussed.

Pabloh wrote: »

Would still be inclined to mock them for accepting the deal though.

This.

Just give the guy his tenner and mock him. You could even put it in a bin and make him rumage for it..

big_iain

Flushdraw wrote: »

Just give the guy his tenner and mock him. You could even put it in a bin and make him rumage for it..

lol. How far would you go?


@Scouser in Dub -

I understand +ev > 1st place when in a multiway deal but that theory does not hold for a two way deal when the parameters are 1st and 2nd place prize money. A deal should be two amounts between them. like 230/110.

Scouser in Dub

But Iain giving anyone greater than 1st place money is removing money from the prize pool that should be shared between the other players. Like your stack is never worth more than 1st place money.

Anyway making deals is part of the skill of tournament poker and people who make mistakes need to improve that part of their game.

big_iain

I don't think that the whole incident is too scaring. I think that at the end of it, it is a tenner. But the it does raise a good question when it comes to the house's role in deal making.

Scouser in Dub

Personally I don't think the house has one

Flushdraw

Its up to the house to provide the correct payout should the players request it. Its also up to the house to provide a chip count should the players request it. The rest should be left between the players and if someone is stupid enough to take a deal where he gets less than 2nd place, and the other has no moral issues to take the extra, then fair play to the 2 of them.

Tony_Montana

Flushdraw wrote: »

Its up to the house to provide the correct payout should the players request it. Its also up to the house to provide a chip count should the players request it. The rest should be left between the players and if someone is stupid enough to take a deal where he gets less than 2nd place, and the other has no moral issues to take the extra, then fair play to the 2 of them.

I was about to say basically the same thing. The house has nothing to do with a deal between the 2. Pretty sick and morally wrong though lol

fab-frankie

my statement fri 19/6/09


I made the mistake on the night in question. My feelings on the subject is one of humour and lightheartless.
The card club has a very friendly atmosphere so when we went heads up, we suggested a "deal" which we were happy to take,
We forgot the original payout stucture "obviously".

The rest of the players wanted to play a 50 euro freezeout which i was very keen to play as i was miserably short stacked.
I have played poker for a number of years with relativity good success. :cool::cool::D
This mistake was careless on my behalf, but one i can live with.
As a new member on boards i hope to welcomed.

Mr. Wolf

Welcome to Boards.ie Frankie.

mdwexford

Flushdraw wrote: »

Obv not the case Damo!



Unless you gave him the €10 back, you screwed him out of money.

He probably deserves it though. Anyone that willingly takes €110 v €250 headsup whether you've a 9-1 chip lead or not isn't playing with the full deck.

I've been involved in, and seen lots of deals done at final tables. It ALWAYS involves someone sitting with the prize details on front of them, someone reading it from the board, the TD calling it out or some other way, but i've never seen a deal done and accepted without the prizepool being discussed.



This.

Just give the guy his tenner and mock him. You could even put it in a bin and make him rumage for it..

If Roundtower had seen this post he definitely would have thanked it.

TommyGunne

I don't get what the big deal is. Its the guy's own fault if he accepts the deal. Tough excrement imo.