History degree?

Sharlovesjohn

Does anyone know of a college where u can study european history in Dublin? sorry if this is in wrong section!

pinkypinky

Trinity and UCD for sure.

Sharlovesjohn

Thanks!

Hermione*

UCD and Trinity both have excellent history departments. There tends to be more European history in UCD as their history department is the largest. History in Irish universities tends to be dominated by Irish history, which doesn’t always leave a lot of resources for other areas, especially if it’s a small department.

conchubhar1

in ucd

i have personaly done 1.5 irish modules and an american, roman europe, islam and christianity/europe, french revolution and russian revolution

it seems to be about 70/30 of rest of history to specificly irish history

it is all quite modern though - i suppose because the archaeology in ucd is quite big and there is a lecturer there who could be considered a historian more than an archaeologist so he covers a bit that would probaly fall under history had he not been doing it

for example robert gerwarth got a huge grant to study wartime europe and the effects of something or other (its on the ucd site)

Babbit

Do it in Trinity. Too many Shinners in UCD.

convert

Most of the colleges should have the syllabus for next year on their website, so have a look at them and see what's on offer, yet bearing in mind that the courses offered will change from year to year depending on availability of lecturers, etc.

However, you should also take the composition of the arts course into consideration when choosing where to go. For example, TCD is a four year degree, whereas UCD has three year degree programme. Do you want to be able to take electives, or are you happy to take history as a major with another subject as a minor? Do you just want a pure history degree?

Sharlovesjohn

convert wrote: »

Most of the colleges should have the syllabus for next year on their website, so have a look at them and see what's on offer, yet bearing in mind that the courses offered will change from year to year depending on availability of lecturers, etc.

However, you should also take the composition of the arts course into consideration when choosing where to go. For example, TCD is a four year degree, whereas UCD has three year degree programme. Do you want to be able to take electives, or are you happy to take history as a major with another subject as a minor? Do you just want a pure history degree?

Its not for me its for a friend and I think its just history their after he is applying through mature student status i couldn't find anything on TCD showing the requirements, I found a course in UCD but requires an aptitdue test has anyone done one of these before? I tried ringing the college but theres only one guy in the mature student call centre and hes away, thanks for all the info!!

conchubhar1

those apptitute tests are fairly standard in ucd

its just to not waste your time, their time and money if you would not be up to a full degree of pure history (wide ranging)

in ucd with a full history programme you still choose 2 mdules a year of electives - can pick any module accross years and subjects doesnt have to be history

i would highly recomend it

Sharlovesjohn

thanks a mill!! really helped!

McArmalite

Babbit wrote: »

Do it in Trinity. Too many Shinners in UCD.

Do it in UCD. Too many born again unionists in Trinners.

Babbit

McArmalite wrote: »

Do it in UCD. Too many born again unionists in Trinners.

LOL. The big difference is that I am saying it with hearty contradiction, you say it with genuine venom and bigotry.

conchubhar1

no your saying it to be an unfunny ass

lol joke that doesnt look like a joke.

brianthebard

Infraction for Babbit and McArmalite. This is not a complicated thread, this is not a controversial thread. Off topic posts of that nature will not be tolerated.

Babbit

A startling performance by the moderator.

MissHoneyBun

I would advise you to think twice and then think again before you do a B.A in UCD. It's not the walk in the park that many people assume it is. Course wise the material is not especially challenging but in relation to administration, exams, timetabling and ''department errors'' the place is an organisational disaster. The B.A course was not modularised while I was there but is at the moment and several friends have told me it has become even more problematic since. You may think that this stuff is irrelevant but on a practical level, it is usually this side of things that can cause stress levels to soar, especially during exam time. Just thought it might be worth mentioning.

Dionysus

To answer the poster's question first.

What areas of European history do you want to study?

UCD is excellent for eighteenth-century intellectual thought (the Englightenment etc) and also for Revolutionary France and Russia. If Judith Devlin is teaching in the year you'll be there you'll be lucky. She's often off in Russia but she is definitely the best historian in Ireland for Russian stuff. Éamon O'Flaherty is always on top form for European intellectual history while Hugh Gough wrote at least one of the standard textbooks on revolutionary France. Basically, UCD's strong points are European history and modern Ireland. They put the resources in there and neglect practically everything else.

TCD is excellent for things like late medieval Irish history, especially Katharine Simms who has to be one of the finest and most respected Irish historians of the past century (along with Kenneth Nicholls of UCC, of course). It's also stronger than UCD for 16th century history, particularly Irish history.

There are very strong differences between all universities depending on your subject area. If you do go to one of the Dublin unis, make sure you get out of Dublin regularly just for the break from the affectations. Oh if only O'Connor's pub in Doolin had a university.

Dionysus

Babbit wrote: »

LOL. The big difference is that I am saying it with hearty contradiction, you say it with genuine venom and bigotry.

In fairness, Trinners does itself no favours by allowing cricket, rugby and even American football to be played on its campus but no sign of a hurling or football pitch still. Not very inclusive at all. Aside from that cultural hostility (which would fit well into the deeply anti-Irish 1592 Charter that founded the university) I have found the staff in Trinners to be super helpful.

On the other hand, I note TCD has definitely not implemented the Official Languages Act regarding bilingual signage, something which UCD has done practically everywhere on its much larger campus. In short, UCD is more assertively Irish than TCD which merely takes millions per annum from Irish things like the Book of Kells with one hand and claims historically-based (read: ethnically-based) exemptions from the Universities Act in 1997 with another side of their mouth. 'Ag iarraidh an dá thrá a fhreastal', mar a deirtear (nó 'Tadhg an dá thaobh'?) .

But if you were being sarcastic, I agree with you about UCD. It's only recently that UCD lecturers are being appointed from universities that aren't Oxford or Cambridge. But the UCD of Fanning and Laffan, and before them of Dudley-Edwards, has definitely been eclipsed in recent years with lecturers being appointed from the EUI, John Hopkins and the Sorbonne among others - the first and last of which are certainly more difficult to get into that Cantab or Oxon as they require proficiency in at least one other language besides English.

Dionysus

MissHoneyBun wrote: »

I would advise you to think twice and then think again before you do a B.A in UCD. It's not the walk in the park that many people assume it is. Course wise the material is not especially challenging but in relation to administration, exams, timetabling and ''department errors'' the place is an organisational disaster. The B.A course was not modularised while I was there but is at the moment and several friends have told me it has become even more problematic since. You may think that this stuff is irrelevant but on a practical level, it is usually this side of things that can cause stress levels to soar, especially during exam time. Just thought it might be worth mentioning.

I think they could replace all the admin staff with a few country girls who have no notions about themselves. The place would be run much more efficiently, although Fanning and Laffan would probably die of heart failure if they couldn't hear any affected accents and 'Doctor this' and 'Professor that' - as if we are children rather than young adults.

If the admin staff spent half of their time giving students, their customers, an efficient service rather than arse-licking egos, the whole place would be much easier to navigate. I would dearly love if Hugh Brady tore the pretensions apart in there; the place needs rapid modernisation. As it stands, Laffan and Fanning advise students to leave UCD immediately after their degree and go to Cambridge or Oxford as they are "pissing against the wind" if they go to any other university on earth. Treason, and UCD should make these people aware of their own personal financial realities.

Sharlovesjohn

Thanks the course I was after is matching prefectly with the one in UCD I found they were alot more helpful with the questions I was asking then TCD which acted as if they werent bother whether I picked them or not.
Thanks a mill for all your help and Misshoneybun that could be said for many of the colleges in Dublin but thanks.

conchubhar1

devlin and o flatherty are experts in their fields
their teaching styles and methods - do leave a lot to be desired though

edward james does early stuff and and elva johnston does great things


on the organisisation - it could be termed diabolical but with a dilligent student.

no hassle, just make sure you are paying attention

OldJay

Dionysus wrote: »

In fairness, Trinners does itself no favours by allowing cricket, rugby and even American football to be played on its campus but no sign of a hurling or football pitch still. Not very inclusive at all

Where on campus would a hurling or football pitch go? There's no room.

Babbit

UCD is good for watering things down for you, Trinity is good for giving intelligent guidance and has the best library facility in Ireland. In Trinity you will be encouraged to figure things out for yourself and engage in self directed learning, in UCD you might as well be sitting Leaving Cert History all over again (I did a year of an Arts degree in UCD before moving over to Trinity)

conchubhar1

you did the first year, which is a year for you to get a jist of subjetcs and get settled in

you obvious bias against ucd, is not opinion, its pure bias.

care to mention any subjects, modules or anything to back up your claims?

---
of course it has a better library - ie it is bigger as it is older.

if you are so good at being at figuring things out by yourself then you will make use of the national library of ireland and other archives and any library in ireland to find your books and other sources......

brianthebard

I agree, it would be very hard to judge two universities or departments properly without doing a full course in either. First year in every history department in Ireland is going to be a refresher course because a lot of people choose to study it at university level but not for the leaving cert.

Babbit

conchubhar1 wrote: »

you did the first year, which is a year for you to get a jist of subjetcs and get settled in

you obvious bias against ucd, is not opinion, its pure bias.

care to mention any subjects, modules or anything to back up your claims?

---
of course it has a better library - ie it is bigger as it is older.

if you are so good at being at figuring things out by yourself then you will make use of the national library of ireland and other archives and any library in ireland to find your books and other sources......

Our early printed books library provides sources not available to UCD students or to any other library in the country.

Of course I had a bias against UCD. I can compare 1st year UCD and 1st year Trinity and the difference in startling. In one of the colleges the emphasis is on rambling off internet notes, in the other emphasis is on understanding concepts. The difference is between leaving cert. standard and university standard. I don't need to provide any backup - I don't particularly care if you disagree.

Pride Fighter

Just did a degree in UCD in History and Classics.

I went in to UCD loving history, I was enthusiastic about several areas. In UCD they force you to do subjects you dont want. In second year the amount of choice was good for me, they only forced me to do 2 out of 5 modules. In third year, this went up to 4 out of 5. The 4 out of 5 is going to remain, for both second and third year. Do you want to do history only picking 1 subject you want to do in 2 out of 3 years? I advise against.

As for Classics, it is brilliant IMO. They force you to do no subjects, you pick everything yourself bar first year. The course is specifically called Greek and Roman Civilisation. It is all taught through translations, and there is plenty of history modules in it to keep you interested.

As for UCD itself it is a great College, great campus, with plenty of supports for mature students.I'd advise you or your friend to come. But if you want to study history, do it yourself at home, as history in UCD is not great IMO.

claire h

brianthebard wrote: »

First year in every history department in Ireland is going to be a refresher course because a lot of people choose to study it at university level but not for the leaving cert.

Not necessarily. UCD first year courses are much more general than TCD's, and their history research methods style courses are much more 'bridging the gap between school and college' by dealing with Irish history topics. The first year courses at TCD are survey courses in medieval history and have nothing to do with giving a general overview of 'everything's that's happened in the world or Europe in the last two millennia'.

I would guess that first year in most history departments include some module about 'how to do history', but that's not quite the same thing as a 'refresher course'.


On another note... history department at TCD are, by Trinity terms, reasonably organised and efficient and easy to deal with.

Manach

Just to mention the Open University History degree.

I am part way through this and in general found it to be interesting and enjoyable, especially its classic's modules.

Joe1919

I would personally recommend doing history as a joint honours with a subject such as English, Philosophy, Social Science, Computer Science , Geography, Economics etc. Its better balance for the mind and adds a bit of diversity. There may be also better choice within the subject this way.
You only need History as 30% + of your degree to teach the subject.

I would also recommend doing a module on the whole 'idea' or 'philosophy' of history that involves reading the arguments of Carr, Elton, White, Jenkins,( Rorty )etc. This can be quite challenging as some of them questions the whole idea of 'truth' and whether any type of 'true' or accurate history is really possible at all. What is the purpose of history? Is history all lies? Of course, I'm not agreeing with all of these but you need to be able to answer and challenge this. (IMO).

Some universities allow you to apply for a general 'omnibus' type BA and you can sample and change the subjects within the first two weeks or so. (I dont think Trinity allows this.)
Some BA allow you to do 3 (or 4)subjects in first year and drop one (or 2) in second year, continuing only with two ( or perhaps even do single honours on one subject only). Many find this flexibility a life saver.

Finally, I found Irish history interesting when taught in the general context of European history. Almost all of the major events that took place in Irish history were related or connected or influenced by European or British events. e.g. Battle of Kinsale, 1641 rebellion, Battle of Boyne, 1798,............1916?

Best of Luck.

conchubhar1

of course trinity has stuff ucd and others does not

but...

ucd has diaries of ó ríordán for example
folklore dept archives
míchael ó cléirigh

---

i never did a ''doing history'' course in ucd - it is not compulsory and no module i did included it as part of the course

---

yes, i did archaeology, history and irish in first year - then i chose which to pick for my degree

trinity you pick two, and c'est la vie

Karlusss

Dionysus wrote: »

In fairness, Trinners does itself no favours by allowing cricket, rugby and even American football to be played on its campus but no sign of a hurling or football pitch still.

Pretty sure American football takes place in Santry.

Possibly a side-point, but whatever.

Regarding the three-subjects vs. two subjects thing: that's fine if that's what you want to do but it's not really an advantage or disadvantage either way. I knew the two I wanted in Trinity and I'm glad I got to do more of them in first year rather than something else I'd end up dropping. Other people want to stay broad, and that's fine too.

conchubhar1

american football takes place in ucd aswel.....

brianthebard

claire h wrote: »

Not necessarily. UCD first year courses are much more general than TCD's, and their history research methods style courses are much more 'bridging the gap between school and college' by dealing with Irish history topics. The first year courses at TCD are survey courses in medieval history and have nothing to do with giving a general overview of 'everything's that's happened in the world or Europe in the last two millennia'.

I would guess that first year in most history departments include some module about 'how to do history', but that's not quite the same thing as a 'refresher course'.


On another note... history department at TCD are, by Trinity terms, reasonably organised and efficient and easy to deal with.

I didn't mean to suggest first year would include nothing new, in NUIM we did a history of globalisation module in second semester of first year that wsa great and very new. But most courses are going to assume a certain level of unknowledge and find a beginning point at some stage-maynooth had a big focus on Irish history, so both European and Irish history started in the 16th century and progressed throughout the degree from there. Each uni will have a different focus but do pretty much the same thing.

Dionysus

You do the 'doing history' course for the MA in UCD, and they are easily the most boring courses you could do - actually, research methods in 2nd Year Politics is up there with it. They are just trying to intellectualise things and keep themselves in work. It really is the stuff you do not need to be taught; if you have any sort of learner autonomy you'll read up on it yourself. If you still want to be spoonfed as you were in secondary school I suppose it would be nice if they give you a course in first year.

You get a much more cogent view of 'doing history' by reading Anthony Grafton's The Footnote: A curious history (Harvard, 1997). The only satisfying thing about the 'doing history' stuff is that you can read rightwing lunatics like Geoffrey Elton going apoplectic when "dangerous" historians suggested that studying social history could be a valuable thing for historians to do back in the 1960s. Nothing, absolutely nothing, could possibly be as important as constitutional history, real history, he raged. Social history was confusing things; never mind the peasants, old bean! No wonder his nephew ended up as a (quite good) comedian.

Dionysus

Justind wrote: »

Where on campus would a hurling or football pitch go? There's no room.

They could easily rotate sports, with rugby and cricket players making the long trek out to Santry for ten-year periods or so, and vice versa.

Karlusss wrote: »

Pretty sure American football takes place in Santry.

Not sure, but it was being played on the rugger pitch last time I was on the main campus.

Dionysus

As for the three versus two subjects, I found three much better. Still, I couldn't decide so I did four subjects. Yes, some of us are terribly indecisive . The really brilliant thing about UCD is you can choose from something like 32 courses in first year when you choose Arts on your CAO form. You can make that choice over a month or even longer while attending the courses. That makes sense. In Trinners, in contrast, you have to decide your two subjects in January, before you have even done your mock Leaving, never mind set foot in university. Where is the sense in that?

On the other hand, I found 2nd year much better than first as you had weeded out the subjects or sub-subjects you didn't like and had much more choice. Third year was better for the same reasons. But I'd much rather have the broad choice in 1st year than specialise in 1st year in something I may not like. That's an awful burden on a 17-year-old. Specialisation without happiness isn't worth much in my view.

Dionysus

The one thing none of you have mentioned is this: there is no internet access in Trinners for students from other third level colleges who visit it. This makes TCD on a par with the National Library of Ireland as some relic of the 19th century. It is entirely unacceptable in 2009 that both places refuse to give free internet access to students/researchers who visit.

In UCD, in sharp contrast, any visiting student/researcher walks into the library or archives with his/her laptop, automatically picks up the signal and clicks connect. That's it. No nonsense, consumer-friendly and embracing modern technology.

The lack of internet access in TCD and the NLI ranges from simple things like not being able to find out the precise name/details of a journal or book (the details of which are definitely online) to not being able to gain access to online dictionaries/thesauri (infinitely more efficient than thrawling around the library for physical dictionaries etc) to finding online biographies about the person you are reading at that moment to getting aids in order to decipher manuscripts in a range of languages. For example, if you are reading a manuscript in latin you can put part of it into any of the well established academic online translation tools which will assist you in deciphering the rest of it, particularly if it is a common phrase. Clearly, more advanced libraries have embraced technology.

It is as if these two institutions are trying to stop the tide by engaging in this luddite-style obscurantism. It is a recipe for inefficiency. There are absolutely no excuses for this, especially from education institutions. The Department of Education should have stipulated to these two institutions years ago that public funding was contingent on allowing internet access to all members of the public who visit.

Babbit

The lack of internet access in TCD and the NLI ranges from simple things like not being able to find out the precise name/details of a journal or book (the details of which are definitely online) to not being able to gain access to online dictionaries/thesauri (infinitely more efficient than thrawling around the library for physical dictionaries etc) to finding online biographies about the person you are reading at that moment to getting aids in order to decipher manuscripts in a range of languages. For example, if you are reading a manuscript in latin you can put part of it into any of the well established academic online translation tools which will assist you in deciphering the rest of it, particularly if it is a common phrase. Clearly, more advanced libraries have embraced technology.

What utter nonsense. There are visitor PCs and we have access to most internet databases of note (Oxford DNB etc.) I'll agree getting access to the internet in Trinity is difficult, but it is only a matter of a five minute trip to Internet services. Your making a mountain out of a molehill.

conchubhar1

ah i would love having to trek with a large book, or books to the pcs

that would be so handy - no wait i could do this is ucd too aswel as having wireless.......

Dionysus

Babbit wrote: »

What utter nonsense. There are visitor PCs and we have access to most internet databases of note (Oxford DNB etc.) I'll agree getting access to the internet in Trinity is difficult, but it is only a matter of a five minute trip to Internet services. Your making a mountain out of a molehill.

If anybody is speaking nonsense here it is you. Unlike you, I have spent very many months in TCD as a researcher from outside the university. The staff are among the best and most helpful in the world - no problems there - but restricting internet access is patronising in the extreme when other Irish universities can offer this respect to visiting students from TCD.

And spare us the "access to most internet databases of note" as if we are children who cannot choose our own databases "of note" - who is anybody else to decide what is "of note" for me? The databases I need are nowhere to be seen in TCD's little choice because the mere librarians who decide what I can look at are nothing near experts in this area, or indeed any other area from what I can see. They are, therefore, in no position to act as censors of what people should, and should not, be allowed to view.

UCD, in contrast, has no such limitations on our access and insults upon our intelligence. I end up writing a list of things I have to research online every evening when I get home simply because TCD refuses to make this small change that could make research significantly more efficient. The management of the place has, quite patently, little but fear of new technology.

OldJay

Dionysus wrote: »

They could easily rotate sports, with rugby and cricket players making the long trek out to Santry for ten-year periods or so, and vice versa

What a stupid suggestion. Two of the oldest cricket and rugby clubs in the world move to Santry for what...ten year stints? :rolleyes:

Dionysus

Justind wrote: »

What a stupid suggestion. Two of the oldest cricket and rugby clubs in the world move to Santry for what...ten year stints? :rolleyes:

So, because they are "two of the oldest cricket and rugby clubs in the world" (can we have precise dates, just for a bit or historical perspective?) they should be immune to recent developments like Irish people, especially of the Catholic type, being allowed into the University of Dublin? Despite the vast majority of people in Trinity now being from the Irish tradition rather than the English colonial tradition upon which the university was founded, Trinners should simply ignore this modern reality and press on with the aims of its 1592 charter, namely to promote English culture against the barbarous natives and their culture?

But, of course, Trinity College Dublin will readily demand money from the Irish taxpayer while refusing to give equal treatment to Irish sports on its Irish-funded university campus. It's 2009, not 1609. Get real. And you are lecturing others on stupidity (or perhaps it's just a subconscious bigotry?)

PS: And of course those cricket and rugby clubs would die if their members had to trundle out to Santry, well beyond the walls of Dublin, every ten years or so. No other clubs on earth change their pitches and "survive", right? Talk about a lame excuse for refusing to share sports pitches with "the natives". Bad form.

Dionysus

claire h wrote: »

Just because the evidence is skimpier for 'the ordinary people', especially the further back into the past you go, doesn't mean that it's impossible to work with or that it's entirely conjecture. It just means you need to be careful with the source material - but that's the case with everything, regardless of how official and unambiguous it seems.

On someone's earlier posts re: TCD access to various databases - 'censorship' seems an inappropriate way of framing it. Trinity's priority is obviously going to be ensuring that there's access to databases which its students and staff will be using - suggesting that visiting researchers don't have access to certain databases because they've been deemed in some way not 'allowed' is nonsense.

You're missing the point: if UCD can allow any visitor a right to access the internet and all journals UCD subscribes to, there is no reason why TCD cannot do precisely the same. There is no justification for this pettiness given that TCD students are not treated this way in UCD.

Other than that, you made a good defence of social history. Fair play.

claire h

Dionysus wrote: »

You're missing the point: if UCD can allow any visitor a right to access the internet and all journals UCD subscribes to, there is no reason why TCD cannot do precisely the same. There is no justification for this pettiness given that TCD students are not treated this way in UCD.

Leaving internet access aside, your point on TCD seemed to be the small amount of choice one had when looking at journals, rather than there being a difference between what researchers can access and what TCD students/staff can access. If your gripe is the latter issue, then that wasn't made clear, and I maintain that labelling it as 'censorship' is inappropriate.

Is there any official policy stating that UCD and TCD libraries must treat students of the other institution exactly the same way, or is this just something you feel should be the case? I completely appreciate that you might feel like it's a pain or inconvenient or outmoded that Trinity don't do what UCD do, but surely it's up to them to decide what their policy will be?

Babbit wrote:

Constitutional history has an abundant supply of source material - hence it is why it should be the primary focus of the historian. ...I am not opposed to social history - I'm just saying that social history is effectively impossible. Intelligent and reasoned speculation? yes. Definitive history? No.

You believe constitutional history can provide a 'definitive history' or anything like it? Are you kidding me?

Dionysus

claire h wrote: »

Leaving internet access aside, your point on TCD seemed to be the small amount of choice one had when looking at journals, rather than there being a difference between what researchers can access and what TCD students/staff can access. If your gripe is the latter issue, then that wasn't made clear, and I maintain that labelling it as 'censorship' is inappropriate. Is there any official policy stating that UCD and TCD libraries must treat students of the other institution exactly the same way, or is this just something you feel should be the case? I completely appreciate that you might feel like it's a pain or inconvenient or outmoded that Trinity don't do what UCD do, but surely it's up to them to decide what their policy will be?

My entire problem with TCD is precisely the same as it is with the National Library of Ireland: I cannot get unlimited free internet access in either place, whereas people can come from both of those places to UCD and get unlimited free internet access in UCD.
I haven't a clue about the agreements between UCD and TCD but there is no defence for TCD not allowing everybody who is given access to their libraries to have full use of the internet. That way, I can access all the journals in either TCD or UCD depositories, all the dictionaries, Google Books, archive.org and, well, countless other resources that make researching efficient and help in reading manuscripts at the same time.

conchubhar1

whoops - new thread

---

in this day and age - trinity could easily provide open internet access to all

Babbit

conchubhar1 wrote: »

whoops - new thread

---

in this day and age - trinity could easily provide open internet access to all

It does. There are visitor computers.

I have been a visiting student to both UCD archives and the library (One one occasion) and I found their internet services no different than our own. I know UCD and NUI Galway students who came to Trinity and they had no complaints with the computers. The lady doth protest too much.

OldJay

Dionysus wrote: »

So, because they are "two of the oldest cricket and rugby clubs in the world" (can we have precise dates, just for a bit or historical perspective?) they should be immune to recent developments like Irish people, especially of the Catholic type, being allowed into the University of Dublin? Despite the vast majority of people in Trinity now being from the Irish tradition rather than the English colonial tradition upon which the university was founded, Trinners should simply ignore this modern reality and press on with the aims of its 1592 charter, namely to promote English culture against the barbarous natives and their culture?

But, of course, Trinity College Dublin will readily demand money from the Irish taxpayer while refusing to give equal treatment to Irish sports on its Irish-funded university campus. It's 2009, not 1609. Get real. And you are lecturing others on stupidity (or perhaps it's just a subconscious bigotry?)

PS: And of course those cricket and rugby clubs would die if their members had to trundle out to Santry, well beyond the walls of Dublin, every ten years or so. No other clubs on earth change their pitches and "survive", right? Talk about a lame excuse for refusing to share sports pitches with "the natives". Bad form.

Its not a "lame excuse" at all and you can pull your head in with the bigotry rant too, by the way.
What other clubs change their playing club grounds like you suggest Trinity should? In case you didn't realise, DUCC is an IRISH cricket club and DURFC is an IRISH rugby union club. The "Natives" play and run both sports there :rolleyes:

Babbit

Justind wrote: »

Its not a "lame excuse" at all and you can pull your head in with the bigotry rant too, by the way.
What other clubs change their playing club grounds like you suggest Trinity should? In case you didn't realise, DUCC is an IRISH cricket club and DURFC is an IRISH rugby union club. The "Natives" play and run both sports there :rolleyes:

Don't rise to him mate. He's the sort of UCD shinner I was talking about. For the likes of him, being Irish means beating ones chest, drinking pints of Stout and liking GAA.

Pride Fighter

Babbit wrote: »

Don't rise to him mate. He's the sort of UCD shinner I was talking about. For the likes of him, being Irish means beating ones chest, drinking pints of Stout and liking GAA.

Get a grip, as a UCD student I know that the amount of Shinners is extremely low. Most of the students in UCD are far right Fianna Failers or Fine Gaelers. Next years SU in UCD is 3 FF and 2 FG.