History degree?

Sharlovesjohn

Does anyone know of a college where u can study european history in Dublin? sorry if this is in wrong section!

pinkypinky

Trinity and UCD for sure.

Sharlovesjohn

Thanks!

Hermione*

UCD and Trinity both have excellent history departments. There tends to be more European history in UCD as their history department is the largest. History in Irish universities tends to be dominated by Irish history, which doesn’t always leave a lot of resources for other areas, especially if it’s a small department.

conchubhar1

in ucd

i have personaly done 1.5 irish modules and an american, roman europe, islam and christianity/europe, french revolution and russian revolution

it seems to be about 70/30 of rest of history to specificly irish history

it is all quite modern though - i suppose because the archaeology in ucd is quite big and there is a lecturer there who could be considered a historian more than an archaeologist so he covers a bit that would probaly fall under history had he not been doing it

for example robert gerwarth got a huge grant to study wartime europe and the effects of something or other (its on the ucd site)

Babbit

Do it in Trinity. Too many Shinners in UCD.

convert

Most of the colleges should have the syllabus for next year on their website, so have a look at them and see what's on offer, yet bearing in mind that the courses offered will change from year to year depending on availability of lecturers, etc.

However, you should also take the composition of the arts course into consideration when choosing where to go. For example, TCD is a four year degree, whereas UCD has three year degree programme. Do you want to be able to take electives, or are you happy to take history as a major with another subject as a minor? Do you just want a pure history degree?

Sharlovesjohn

convert wrote: »

Most of the colleges should have the syllabus for next year on their website, so have a look at them and see what's on offer, yet bearing in mind that the courses offered will change from year to year depending on availability of lecturers, etc.

However, you should also take the composition of the arts course into consideration when choosing where to go. For example, TCD is a four year degree, whereas UCD has three year degree programme. Do you want to be able to take electives, or are you happy to take history as a major with another subject as a minor? Do you just want a pure history degree?

Its not for me its for a friend and I think its just history their after he is applying through mature student status i couldn't find anything on TCD showing the requirements, I found a course in UCD but requires an aptitdue test has anyone done one of these before? I tried ringing the college but theres only one guy in the mature student call centre and hes away, thanks for all the info!!

conchubhar1

those apptitute tests are fairly standard in ucd

its just to not waste your time, their time and money if you would not be up to a full degree of pure history (wide ranging)

in ucd with a full history programme you still choose 2 mdules a year of electives - can pick any module accross years and subjects doesnt have to be history

i would highly recomend it

Sharlovesjohn

thanks a mill!! really helped!

McArmalite

Babbit wrote: »

Do it in Trinity. Too many Shinners in UCD.

Do it in UCD. Too many born again unionists in Trinners.

Babbit

McArmalite wrote: »

Do it in UCD. Too many born again unionists in Trinners.

LOL. The big difference is that I am saying it with hearty contradiction, you say it with genuine venom and bigotry.

conchubhar1

no your saying it to be an unfunny ass

lol joke that doesnt look like a joke.

brianthebard

Infraction for Babbit and McArmalite. This is not a complicated thread, this is not a controversial thread. Off topic posts of that nature will not be tolerated.

Babbit

A startling performance by the moderator.

MissHoneyBun

I would advise you to think twice and then think again before you do a B.A in UCD. It's not the walk in the park that many people assume it is. Course wise the material is not especially challenging but in relation to administration, exams, timetabling and ''department errors'' the place is an organisational disaster. The B.A course was not modularised while I was there but is at the moment and several friends have told me it has become even more problematic since. You may think that this stuff is irrelevant but on a practical level, it is usually this side of things that can cause stress levels to soar, especially during exam time. Just thought it might be worth mentioning.

Dionysus

To answer the poster's question first.

What areas of European history do you want to study?

UCD is excellent for eighteenth-century intellectual thought (the Englightenment etc) and also for Revolutionary France and Russia. If Judith Devlin is teaching in the year you'll be there you'll be lucky. She's often off in Russia but she is definitely the best historian in Ireland for Russian stuff. Éamon O'Flaherty is always on top form for European intellectual history while Hugh Gough wrote at least one of the standard textbooks on revolutionary France. Basically, UCD's strong points are European history and modern Ireland. They put the resources in there and neglect practically everything else.

TCD is excellent for things like late medieval Irish history, especially Katharine Simms who has to be one of the finest and most respected Irish historians of the past century (along with Kenneth Nicholls of UCC, of course). It's also stronger than UCD for 16th century history, particularly Irish history.

There are very strong differences between all universities depending on your subject area. If you do go to one of the Dublin unis, make sure you get out of Dublin regularly just for the break from the affectations. Oh if only O'Connor's pub in Doolin had a university.

Dionysus

Babbit wrote: »

LOL. The big difference is that I am saying it with hearty contradiction, you say it with genuine venom and bigotry.

In fairness, Trinners does itself no favours by allowing cricket, rugby and even American football to be played on its campus but no sign of a hurling or football pitch still. Not very inclusive at all. Aside from that cultural hostility (which would fit well into the deeply anti-Irish 1592 Charter that founded the university) I have found the staff in Trinners to be super helpful.

On the other hand, I note TCD has definitely not implemented the Official Languages Act regarding bilingual signage, something which UCD has done practically everywhere on its much larger campus. In short, UCD is more assertively Irish than TCD which merely takes millions per annum from Irish things like the Book of Kells with one hand and claims historically-based (read: ethnically-based) exemptions from the Universities Act in 1997 with another side of their mouth. 'Ag iarraidh an dá thrá a fhreastal', mar a deirtear (nó 'Tadhg an dá thaobh'?) .

But if you were being sarcastic, I agree with you about UCD. It's only recently that UCD lecturers are being appointed from universities that aren't Oxford or Cambridge. But the UCD of Fanning and Laffan, and before them of Dudley-Edwards, has definitely been eclipsed in recent years with lecturers being appointed from the EUI, John Hopkins and the Sorbonne among others - the first and last of which are certainly more difficult to get into that Cantab or Oxon as they require proficiency in at least one other language besides English.

Dionysus

MissHoneyBun wrote: »

I would advise you to think twice and then think again before you do a B.A in UCD. It's not the walk in the park that many people assume it is. Course wise the material is not especially challenging but in relation to administration, exams, timetabling and ''department errors'' the place is an organisational disaster. The B.A course was not modularised while I was there but is at the moment and several friends have told me it has become even more problematic since. You may think that this stuff is irrelevant but on a practical level, it is usually this side of things that can cause stress levels to soar, especially during exam time. Just thought it might be worth mentioning.

I think they could replace all the admin staff with a few country girls who have no notions about themselves. The place would be run much more efficiently, although Fanning and Laffan would probably die of heart failure if they couldn't hear any affected accents and 'Doctor this' and 'Professor that' - as if we are children rather than young adults.

If the admin staff spent half of their time giving students, their customers, an efficient service rather than arse-licking egos, the whole place would be much easier to navigate. I would dearly love if Hugh Brady tore the pretensions apart in there; the place needs rapid modernisation. As it stands, Laffan and Fanning advise students to leave UCD immediately after their degree and go to Cambridge or Oxford as they are "pissing against the wind" if they go to any other university on earth. Treason, and UCD should make these people aware of their own personal financial realities.

Sharlovesjohn

Thanks the course I was after is matching prefectly with the one in UCD I found they were alot more helpful with the questions I was asking then TCD which acted as if they werent bother whether I picked them or not.
Thanks a mill for all your help and Misshoneybun that could be said for many of the colleges in Dublin but thanks.

conchubhar1

devlin and o flatherty are experts in their fields
their teaching styles and methods - do leave a lot to be desired though

edward james does early stuff and and elva johnston does great things


on the organisisation - it could be termed diabolical but with a dilligent student.

no hassle, just make sure you are paying attention

OldJay

Dionysus wrote: »

In fairness, Trinners does itself no favours by allowing cricket, rugby and even American football to be played on its campus but no sign of a hurling or football pitch still. Not very inclusive at all

Where on campus would a hurling or football pitch go? There's no room.

Babbit

UCD is good for watering things down for you, Trinity is good for giving intelligent guidance and has the best library facility in Ireland. In Trinity you will be encouraged to figure things out for yourself and engage in self directed learning, in UCD you might as well be sitting Leaving Cert History all over again (I did a year of an Arts degree in UCD before moving over to Trinity)

conchubhar1

you did the first year, which is a year for you to get a jist of subjetcs and get settled in

you obvious bias against ucd, is not opinion, its pure bias.

care to mention any subjects, modules or anything to back up your claims?

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of course it has a better library - ie it is bigger as it is older.

if you are so good at being at figuring things out by yourself then you will make use of the national library of ireland and other archives and any library in ireland to find your books and other sources......

brianthebard

I agree, it would be very hard to judge two universities or departments properly without doing a full course in either. First year in every history department in Ireland is going to be a refresher course because a lot of people choose to study it at university level but not for the leaving cert.

Babbit

conchubhar1 wrote: »

you did the first year, which is a year for you to get a jist of subjetcs and get settled in

you obvious bias against ucd, is not opinion, its pure bias.

care to mention any subjects, modules or anything to back up your claims?

---
of course it has a better library - ie it is bigger as it is older.

if you are so good at being at figuring things out by yourself then you will make use of the national library of ireland and other archives and any library in ireland to find your books and other sources......

Our early printed books library provides sources not available to UCD students or to any other library in the country.

Of course I had a bias against UCD. I can compare 1st year UCD and 1st year Trinity and the difference in startling. In one of the colleges the emphasis is on rambling off internet notes, in the other emphasis is on understanding concepts. The difference is between leaving cert. standard and university standard. I don't need to provide any backup - I don't particularly care if you disagree.

Pride Fighter

Just did a degree in UCD in History and Classics.

I went in to UCD loving history, I was enthusiastic about several areas. In UCD they force you to do subjects you dont want. In second year the amount of choice was good for me, they only forced me to do 2 out of 5 modules. In third year, this went up to 4 out of 5. The 4 out of 5 is going to remain, for both second and third year. Do you want to do history only picking 1 subject you want to do in 2 out of 3 years? I advise against.

As for Classics, it is brilliant IMO. They force you to do no subjects, you pick everything yourself bar first year. The course is specifically called Greek and Roman Civilisation. It is all taught through translations, and there is plenty of history modules in it to keep you interested.

As for UCD itself it is a great College, great campus, with plenty of supports for mature students.I'd advise you or your friend to come. But if you want to study history, do it yourself at home, as history in UCD is not great IMO.

claire h

brianthebard wrote: »

First year in every history department in Ireland is going to be a refresher course because a lot of people choose to study it at university level but not for the leaving cert.

Not necessarily. UCD first year courses are much more general than TCD's, and their history research methods style courses are much more 'bridging the gap between school and college' by dealing with Irish history topics. The first year courses at TCD are survey courses in medieval history and have nothing to do with giving a general overview of 'everything's that's happened in the world or Europe in the last two millennia'.

I would guess that first year in most history departments include some module about 'how to do history', but that's not quite the same thing as a 'refresher course'.


On another note... history department at TCD are, by Trinity terms, reasonably organised and efficient and easy to deal with.

Manach

Just to mention the Open University History degree.

I am part way through this and in general found it to be interesting and enjoyable, especially its classic's modules.

Joe1919

I would personally recommend doing history as a joint honours with a subject such as English, Philosophy, Social Science, Computer Science , Geography, Economics etc. Its better balance for the mind and adds a bit of diversity. There may be also better choice within the subject this way.
You only need History as 30% + of your degree to teach the subject.

I would also recommend doing a module on the whole 'idea' or 'philosophy' of history that involves reading the arguments of Carr, Elton, White, Jenkins,( Rorty )etc. This can be quite challenging as some of them questions the whole idea of 'truth' and whether any type of 'true' or accurate history is really possible at all. What is the purpose of history? Is history all lies? Of course, I'm not agreeing with all of these but you need to be able to answer and challenge this. (IMO).

Some universities allow you to apply for a general 'omnibus' type BA and you can sample and change the subjects within the first two weeks or so. (I dont think Trinity allows this.)
Some BA allow you to do 3 (or 4)subjects in first year and drop one (or 2) in second year, continuing only with two ( or perhaps even do single honours on one subject only). Many find this flexibility a life saver.

Finally, I found Irish history interesting when taught in the general context of European history. Almost all of the major events that took place in Irish history were related or connected or influenced by European or British events. e.g. Battle of Kinsale, 1641 rebellion, Battle of Boyne, 1798,............1916?

Best of Luck.

conchubhar1

of course trinity has stuff ucd and others does not

but...

ucd has diaries of ó ríordán for example
folklore dept archives
míchael ó cléirigh

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i never did a ''doing history'' course in ucd - it is not compulsory and no module i did included it as part of the course

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yes, i did archaeology, history and irish in first year - then i chose which to pick for my degree

trinity you pick two, and c'est la vie