Ares TAR-21 Tavor Review-Discussion

Masada

Have to say although i havent seen one yet, more and more of them seem to be steaming hot piles of sh1te.
Its not just Ireland though, theres bad reviews all over the place. Im glas i didnt fork our for one of these as soon as they came out, the only thing that prevented me from buying one was the fact that it was Ares and a unique gearbox, something that caught me out for impossible to scorce parts in the past.

So, thats sh1te, the TSI appears sh1te, there goes my dream of a gucci Tavor.

Craigsy

Just to throw my lot in i feel Doc is making a valid point, he's held the Tavor in question and what he's said it the way his is, that doesnt mean all of them are like this. I think the whole "No, no, no tavors are perfect, there's nothing wrong with them" argument is a little biased

TheDoc

Firekitten wrote: »

I cant comment again on the things you raise, as you dont get it it seems.

I'm sorry I'm unable to accurately depict the Tavors sold outside of Ireland, but I wont point out the obvious reason as to why I'm only able to comment on the batch available for retail in Ireland...where I live...

And obviously I'm a poser, I play airsoft....its 80% of the actual game, getting kit that LOOKS nice and FEELS comfortable....

It is kinda annoying your taking it so personal...as if I have NO IDEA what I'm taking about, a year handling rifles as a job and witnessing the **** ones and the good ones, I'd like to think I have some notion of what is a good quality built rifle.

And granted there maybe some quality ones floating about, there isn't one on the irish scene yet from what I have heard,seen,felt, and thats a shame....

But just as you take offence in comments distasteful to your country, I take great offence in people belittling me, and my opinions on Airsoft equipment when its my job, and I like to think I'm pretty ****ing good at it.

In the last twelve months, any rifle that started of poorly, usually stays that way, and if it gives aggro to the retailers that sell them, then they just drop the line to save the hassle, obviously. So although it might be a superb rifle, if this keeps up they will just dissapear of the market, which is a pity, but atleast consumers wont be forking our nearly half a grand for something, that doesn't work...

Firekitten

bias maybe. but an owner of a working gun, i can imagine assembly issues that could cause performance issues, but his comments on the iron sights, cocking, battery fitting, body feel are all hilariously personal and wrong.

From a shooters pov, and an owner of the said rifle, those points he raised were wrong.

Craigsy

Firekitten wrote: »

bias maybe. but an owner of a working gun, i can imagine assembly issues that could cause performance issues, but his comments on the iron sights, cocking, battery fitting, body feel are all hilariously personal and wrong.

From a shooters pov, and an owner of the said rifle, those points he raised were wrong.

So you've handled the exact tavor he had then, it is what it is

Lemming

Craigsy wrote: »

Just to throw my lot in i feel Doc is making a valid point, he's held the Tavor in question and what he's said it the way his is, that doesnt mean all of them are like this. I think the whole "No, no, no tavors are perfect, there's nothing wrong with them" argument is a little biased

TBH, I think Dex may have the truth here in that Ares have grossly underestimated demand and are cuttnig corners to ship orders; thus QC is slipping until demand calms down.

Only time will tell if that particular trend holds out. We have Tavors that work (I've seen two, used one), and we have Tavors that are apparently steaming p00. So which is the litmus indicator?

rossism

As owner of the rifle in question maybe i can help clear up a few things.

The tavor doc seen has issues with its hop-up unit and is being returned to the shop it was bought in to be checked and hopefully fixed. the battery cable was blocking the cocking lever from pushing the bolt back.Have the tavor in front of me and cant see any buttons wth no uses?


Edit: The tavor in question belongs to my dad, i myself have another tavor(yes two tavors bit of overkill)
anyway my own tavor was bought 3 weeks before the other and personally i have had no problems with my own.

Firekitten

Craigsy wrote: »

So you've handled the exact tavor he had then

as i mentioned, assembly issues fine, materials? that is a different matter. Half of his issues i cannot comprehend actually existing unless they stopped making the rifle I own, and sell an entirely different weapon now... because thats the only way.

Firekitten

rossism wrote: »

As owner of the rifle in question maybe i can help clear up a few things.

The tavor doc seen has issues with its hop-up unit and is being returned to the shop it was bought in to be checked and hopefully fixed. the battery cable was blocking the cocking lever from pushing the bolt back.Have the tavor in front of me and cant see any buttons wth no uses?

thankyou... someone that took the time to actually THINK before whining very loudly.

the cable can get in the way, as I said.

Masada

While I wouldn't form a negative opinion on a rifle based on 1 out of 10 giving trouble, I also wouldn't endorse a rifle as being "good quality" if i got a good one and 10 others failed. I think the No's outweigh the Yes's at the moment, and until the good ones outweigh the bad ones this is going to be slated as a piece of sh1t. unfortunate, but true.

Firekitten

In Ireland yes.... otherwise, if you check the rest of the world, most are happy.

Have you ever noticed that those complaining are always louder than the satisfied?

TheDoc

Lemming wrote: »

Sorry to ask this, but are you sure you were using a Tavor? I've played with FireKitten's ... I could quite confidently club a CaveTroll to death it without worry of flexing.

It was definitely a Tavor, as clearly stated on the brown box with the big writing " Tar-21"

Secondly, yes there is a laser button and the "buttons" to which you refer at the back of the rifle are actually pins. Perhaps you might want to re-examine the Tavor and learn what is what before slatting it wholesale ...

Probably right about being pins, pretty big that the tip of my index finger could push them in and out...to be confused with a button...interesting, but ill take your word, guess it wont be long before they fall out then : /

The Tavor got a full over before the game started, granted its a rifle ive held for the first time, i got most of it quickly....but it doesn't excuse the slatting, doesnt take a genius to notice piss poor

Edit: btw things like missing hop units are f*ck ups. But those are Ares f*ck ups, not the AEG itself that's at fault ...

Thats like a really "WoW" comment lemming to be pretty honest. Ares make the Tavor....it has been their hot product for months, their only other competitor, is from TSI...and they managed...to forget...to put in hop up units, into their product.

Thats like saying " Yeah but sportlines just have ****e pistons, thats classic armies fault, not the actual CA Sportlines"

they have forgotten, across the board on large quantities of rifle, to forget to put in the component that makes the damn thing work.

I've I was doing a review and got handed that, I wouldnt send it back saying " sorry I need one that actually has a hop unit" I'd be straight to the page slamming the manafacturer.

Thats a serious school boy error, thats like BMW hyping a new model car, then shipping the majority without the engine, the thing that makes them function, then saying " Its not the cars fault, its a class car"

NakedDex

Lemming wrote: »

TBH, I think Dex may have the truth here in that Ares have grossly underestimated demand and are cuttnig corners to ship orders; thus QC is slipping until demand calms down.

Only time will tell if that particular trend holds out. We have Tavors that work (I've seen two, used one), and we have Tavors that are apparently steaming p00. So which is the litmus indicator?

None of them are, yet.
The test will be in six months or so when demand calms down. If the latest ones are still holding faults, then it's Ares making a gun on the cheap by cutting corners they didn't on the originals. If the latest ones are just as good, or better (they may fix that MARS), then Ares had a QC issue and all smells good in the rose garden again.
However, the true test is in six months time that the results of the above should be combined with the performance of Tavors that are being used now. Give them time. They may yet bed in or self destruct.

Lemming

Masada wrote: »

While I wouldn't form a negative opinion on a rifle based on 1 out of 10 giving trouble, I also wouldn't endorse a rifle as being "good quality" if i got a good one and 10 others failed. I think the No's outweigh the Yes's at the moment, and until the good ones outweigh the bad ones this is going to be slated as a piece of sh1t. unfortunate, but true.

By the same logic that you feel the no camp outweigh the yes camp; isn't it disingenuous and a little presumptuous to 'slate' an AEG as sh1t when it is looking increasingly likely that there are early bad batches due to demand? By that logic; 50 bad tavors vs. 49 good ones would qualify it as being absolutely ****e when that is not the case statistically speaking.

The other point to note is that if you had 1 bad aeg in 10; that one complaint would be louder than all of the positives combined - as is human nature.

Lemming

TheDoc wrote: »

Thats like a really "WoW" comment lemming to be pretty honest. Ares make the Tavor....it has been their hot product for months, their only other competitor, is from TSI...and they managed...to forget...to put in hop up units, into their product.

Thats like saying " Yeah but sportlines just have ****e pistons, thats classic armies fault, not the actual CA Sportlines"

they have forgotten, across the board on large quantities of rifle, to forget to put in the component that makes the damn thing work.

I've I was doing a review and got handed that, I wouldnt send it back saying " sorry I need one that actually has a hop unit" I'd be straight to the page slamming the manafacturer.

Thats a serious school boy error, thats like BMW hyping a new model car, then shipping the majority without the engine, the thing that makes them function, then saying " Its not the cars fault, its a class car"

way to go about missing a f*cking point ...

it's like paying for something and not getting it, but somethign else. Funnily enough not the product's fault but human error itself. A missing hop unit is not a design flaw, it's a great big gaping f*cking. QC. Human. F*cking. error.

Firekitten

TheDoc wrote: »

/

The Tavor got a full over before the game started, granted its a rifle ive held for the first time, i got most of it quickly....but it doesn't excuse the slatting, doesnt take a genius to notice piss poor

Yeah, like you noticed the laser and laser button on the handguard. quite thourgh.... and the 'buttons' and the fact you were trapping a wire with the cocking handle and didnt realise 'grinding' = something wrong.


Dex: yeah, quite true, the initial demand has been massive, id not be suprised if it was a qc issue for suppy speed.... I still cant belive your comments regarding build quality unless they changed materials,

btw, you do know its a polymer body not meant to be metal right?

as for **** guns at first never improving? G&G m14, v1 bad, v2 upwards = excelent, CA m15 v1... bad, v2-5 excelent, recently ofcourse, less so.
WE at first... hicapas, bad, we 1911s... great... getting this then?

NakedDex

Firekitten wrote: »

Dex: yeah, quite true, the initial demand has been massive, id not be suprised if it was a qc issue for suppy speed.... I still cant belive your comments regarding build quality unless they changed materials,

btw, you do know its a polymer body not meant to be metal right?

as for **** guns at first never improving? G&G m14, v1 bad, v2 upwards = excelent, CA m15 v1... bad, v2-5 excelent, recently ofcourse, less so.
WE at first... hicapas, bad, we 1911s... great... getting this then?

Was this directed at me? I didn't mention anything about changing materials or lack of positive progression, or anything about polymer v metal?

TheDoc

Firekitten wrote: »

In Ireland yes.... otherwise, if you check the rest of the world, most are happy.

Have you ever noticed that those complaining are always louder than the satisfied?

I don't know what you actually want me to say, that I'm sorry my inferior opinion was wrong and your right, o please forgive me?

Unfortunately it is rare that you get more then one rifle to do a comparison on, especially a Tavor....

Granted I've clearly made a mistake with the button/pin issue, however a pin the size of the tip of my finger, that moves in, then pops back out, you can imagine how i thought it was a button.

Performance wise it was poor, as the gentleman that owned it just said, and hes not the first I've heard, like I said atleast seven others this week alone.

As said by FireKitten:

but his comments on the iron sights, cocking, battery fitting, body feel are all hilariously personal and wrong

From a shooters pov, and an owner of the said rifle, those points he raised were wrong.

I'm going to vacate that thread now for fear of more infractions that I need right now. Airsoft is opinion based, I like this, you like that. This is a review thread, I gave my opinion, my review, get off your ****ing horse, your not gods gift to airsoft. What gives you the right to tell me MY feelings on a piece is wrong? There my opinions, my feelings, and of course they are personal, everything is personal, your personally defending your rifle here, when others are calling it ****e. I think bulpup rifles are ****e, I think aks are ****e, I'll never use one or own one, they dont feel comfortable to me, but I accept there others out there who love them, and I'd never tell them they are wrong, its their opinion and their choice.

The points I made are not wrong, they were voiced by a few lads there tonight, from most opinions I've gotten from folk ( and it is alot of folk) they are not impressed with the tavor, uncomfortable , overpriced and just not liked by alot of people. I'm not going to tell the ones that do own them they are wrong. It is their choice, but stop taking it personal, ive every right to post in this review thread, some negetitive feedback.

And as for your last comment, that is the biggest Walt thing I've ever heard. Seriously, its getting on my nerves some of the stuff you come out with, and your general superiority complex in relation to irelands airsofters, your an airsofter, we are airsofters, we shoot toy guns, dressed in camo. Military experience or whatever, makes no shod of difference what so ever. Get over it.

And just on a final note

There was a number of buttons that pushed, but did nothing that I could see.

That was my original post, I knew what the laser button was on the handguard, its a BIG feature of the rifle, but it didnt do anything, it didnt work.....so you can stop trying to bash me now...

Masada

You all need to go have a cookie and calm the fuk down...

take a step backwards and start to realise this is a toy gun you are all talking about.

Yes there will be good and bad opinions, but getting personal about your difference of opinion makes you look like a gang of 5 year olds.


*quote Lemmings Sig here* (i love irony. lol )

Firekitten

walty?

I was british army, I AM a shooter, I have SHOT real assault rifles, both the sa80 and ar15 series (not uk) therefore, stating from a shooter's pov, is not walty, so just grow up.

yes we are playing with toy guns, but the context of that comment was correct.

Military experience or whatever, makes no shod of difference what so ever.

Hah! that shows SO much.

and for a fact, your comment regarding 'cant see iron sights through mars' is _Literally_ wrong. because one can.

I'm out of this now, its getting stupid.

NakedDex

Synopsis of the last couple of pages.

Some people really like them.
Some people really don't.

Some people have nothing but good reports from theirs.
Some people have had some serious issues.

The MARS is universally disliked.

These issues are likely down to poor QC and may go away.

...and...

The button, much like the cake, is a lie.

Puding

sorry just had to laugh with both sides of the debate on this one, tavor the new aug??

anyway i have a suspicion that the US and HK/European both are coming from different sources or at lease handles differently, the tavors brought inside the us seem to have non of the issues some in Europe have had, the fact the us version come with a QC tag that shows when and who tested the aeg is a bit telling, there is also the different Ares web sites if you have a look, a HK and a USA version.

From looking into a wholesale account with ares USA it seems to be that in reality the ares USA are importing in bulk running QC and shipping out almost like a francis it seems, where as we are getting directly from source in Europe.

The tavor does have problems i documented a lot of them, it shows a lot about how much i like the tavor that i took the time to correct the problem and tbh it has become and exceptional performer. But unfortunately in Europe and hk the lemon rate is exceptionally high to high really.

A lot of the criticism of things like buttons and feels are a bit silly as this are just copying the real thing so its not the airsoft product thats the problem but your just not liking the original design, i think its important to sprat airsoft aeg problems and dislikes originating from the original design of the real steel.

Everyone that has asked me should i buy one i simply told them this, get a ares USA version or wait for the next gen ones to come out, as i can see ares relishing a version with just the mount, or wait the cheaper cybergun release (this is in-fact the ares )

The ares for me was never about value for money, it was about the external finish and look, i know there was issues but i knew i could fix them, the tavor looks ammazing to me everything else is secondary i can make that work.

Edit: also the lemon rate also looks a lot highter than it is , the reason for this is we have people from the uk and other country posting about problems beacuse at the moment when your search for ares tavor we come high on the list so anyone searching for help beacuse they have problem find use its a good thing but also does means that we hear about a lot of the problems but none of the people with working no issues tavors, at lot of people who have issue are new posters hear a lot of the pms i get are from new posters from the uk infact

Rooky1

Hi guys.
Does the Tavor come with a tightbore as standard?
What length is the inner barrel? 407mm???
Thanks for any help.

Firekitten

As the only person here with a working one, I dont have electronic calipres, but it wouldnt suprise me if it was... the performance suggested so. best to ask pud on barrel length, not had mine out.

Puding

As the only person here with a working one

mine works took it out for its first skirmish last weekend

Firekitten

So what did you think of your 'sh1te' gun? was it reallly sh1te? did it feel like sh1te? :P

Puding

well i never said it was a **** gun mine just needed some tlc, and i thought my last post made laid out my thoughts.

I brought my tavor knowing full well the issue with it, i was torn between the tsi and ares version glad i went for the ares even more know after seeing the latest pictures of the tsi i posted in the news thread.

Puding

barrel length is about 420mm my calipers are showing less than 6.05 ish but mine are old non digital versions so impossible to get accurate .00 sizing and i suspect they could be a little off will try and borrow my fathers and test the barrel again

Rooky1

Puding wrote: »

barrel length is about 420mm my calipers are showing less than 6.05 ish but mine are old non digital versions so impossible to get accurate .00 sizing and i suspect they could be a little off will try and borrow my fathers and test the barrel again

Thanks for the info Puding!

Captain Chaos

Rooky1 wrote: »

Hi guys.
Does the Tavor come with a tightbore as standard?
What length is the inner barrel? 407mm???
Thanks for any help.

You will be able to use a 510mm barrel when they release the full length external barrel. All the TARs currently on the market are all in the CTAR config with the carbine barrels.