Recovery from races

tergat

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Hi Tergat - I've been training to run a cluster of races towards the end of the month - 4 in 2 wks between 3k and 6k

• 21/06 - 5k (18:30ish)
• 26/06 - 6k (22:30ish)
• 01/07 - 3k (10:45ish)
• 05/07 - 5k (18:30ish)

They all have 4-5 days between them, what would your guidance be on activitiy in between races?
Maybe race day +1 40mins @ 8:30; +2 same; +3 same w/6 x 100m strides; +4 20min @ 8:30 - or anything additional?

BTW reading your threads over the last few days have been motivating and enlightening!

BeepBeep,

Due to the fact you have a race every 4-5 days all you should do in between is run easy with some strides. Focus on the other recovery techniques such as diet, massage, sleep, proper warm downs & stretching, these will all help. Dont drop normal weekly volume of running by more than 20-25% during the two weeks that you are racing.

Tergat

aero2k

Hello all,

First post here after lurking for several months. I'd like to compliment everyone here on the quality of the posts, it's a great source of knowledge and motivation. I'm wary of posting after an "interesting" experience on the dental forum, but here goes.

These questions are mostly directed at Tergat as OP, but all comments are appreciated.

First some background. Originally a competitive cyclist from 14-16 years old, gave up disillusioned. Ran 1983 DCM after 12 weeks training in 3:18. Kept reasonably fit on and off over the next several years. Returned to competitive cycling in 2000 aged 35. Had 3 relatively good seasons. Took up running again about 3 years ago mainly to encourage my son when he joined the local running club. Jogged/ran a few times a week but never really got into it as I always seemed to have aches and pains in the knees, lower back, ankles etc. About two years ago went away on holiday. Ran every day and eureka! No aches or pains. Trained for '08 DCM with a target of beating my '83 time and a "stretch" goal of sub 3. Ran the 1st half in 1:32 but faded badly over the last 6 to finish in 3:22.
Training was 3 days running per week, 1 speed, 1 tempo, 1 LSR, + 1 bike ride. Did the Addidas series in 32:11, 66:28 and 1:28:48. I'm a bit quicker this year, 31:30 in the Sportsworld 5 mile. I intend to make a serious attempt on a sub 3 DCM '09. I'm currently running around 30 miles per week, with the longest session around 11 miles.

My questions are as follows:

How much should I ramp up the volume and over what period of time?

Given the addidas 1/2m is only 4 weeks before the DCM, is it a bad idea to run it flat out?

What do you think of periodisation, i.e. 3-4 weeks of steadily increasing volume/intensity followed by a relatively easy week?

Am I mad to even attempt a sub 3?

My peak fitness was probably in 2001 when I was riding the bike 6 days per week, total 10-15 hours. Much of this was active recovery, just pedalling to and from work - 40 min each way, with a long slow session and a high intensity day or two. My reason for only running 3 days per week last year was fear of injury, but I've been lucky so far, and think I might benefit from running every day if I get the intensity and volume right.

What do you think?


Thanks,

aero2k

tergat

aero2k wrote: »

Hello all,

First post here after lurking for several months. I'd like to compliment everyone here on the quality of the posts, it's a great source of knowledge and motivation. I'm wary of posting after an "interesting" experience on the dental forum, but here goes.

These questions are mostly directed at Tergat as OP, but all comments are appreciated.

First some background. Originally a competitive cyclist from 14-16 years old, gave up disillusioned. Ran 1983 DCM after 12 weeks training in 3:18. Kept reasonably fit on and off over the next several years. Returned to competitive cycling in 2000 aged 35. Had 3 relatively good seasons. Took up running again about 3 years ago mainly to encourage my son when he joined the local running club. Jogged/ran a few times a week but never really got into it as I always seemed to have aches and pains in the knees, lower back, ankles etc. About two years ago went away on holiday. Ran every day and eureka! No aches or pains. Trained for '08 DCM with a target of beating my '83 time and a "stretch" goal of sub 3. Ran the 1st half in 1:32 but faded badly over the last 6 to finish in 3:22.
Training was 3 days running per week, 1 speed, 1 tempo, 1 LSR, + 1 bike ride. Did the Addidas series in 32:11, 66:28 and 1:28:48. I'm a bit quicker this year, 31:30 in the Sportsworld 5 mile. I intend to make a serious attempt on a sub 3 DCM '09. I'm currently running around 30 miles per week, with the longest session around 11 miles.

My questions are as follows:

How much should I ramp up the volume and over what period of time?

Given the addidas 1/2m is only 4 weeks before the DCM, is it a bad idea to run it flat out?

What do you think of periodisation, i.e. 3-4 weeks of steadily increasing volume/intensity followed by a relatively easy week?

Am I mad to even attempt a sub 3?

My peak fitness was probably in 2001 when I was riding the bike 6 days per week, total 10-15 hours. Much of this was active recovery, just pedalling to and from work - 40 min each way, with a long slow session and a high intensity day or two. My reason for only running 3 days per week last year was fear of injury, but I've been lucky so far, and think I might benefit from running every day if I get the intensity and volume right.

What do you think?


Thanks,

aero2k

aero2k,

Always increase volume by roughly 10% a week and do not increase both intensity of running and volume at the same time. Probably better not to rae the HM unless you are physically ready for it, focus on getting aerobically fit for the next 6 weeks or so and then start marathon specific training.

You should work your way up to running 5-6 days a week consistantly then add longer tempo runs and CV reps. See previous posts for details of these. Training 3 weeks big volume, one week lower is fine.

For you to run 3 hrs you need to be in roughly 1.23-1.25 shape for the HM. If you train consistantly and be patient theres no reason why ou cannot give it a go.

See Tempo run thread for details of Marathon training, especially long workouts these are the key.

Tergat

aero2k

Hi Tergat,

Many thanks for the very prompt and typically helpful reply.

tergat wrote: »

aero2k,
For you to run 3 hrs you need to be in roughly 1.23-1.25 shape for the HM. If you train consistantly and be patient there's no reason why you cannot give it a go.

I plan to be in 1:23-1:25 shape by September.
I've no problem with the consistency, patience is another story...I think that's what got me in the end last year. The day before the marathon it was a bit windy and I thought "3:10 will be a good target tomorrow". Next morning at 6am there wasn't a breath of wind, so I thought "2:59 sounds better", and I put on the racing flats. Cue the most horrifically painful experience I've ever had, not to mention frustrating, my thighs siezed completely though the rest of me felt full of running. Amazingly, I had no pains or aches once the walking down the stairs backwards thing wore off.

tergat wrote: »

See Tempo run thread for details of Marathon training, especially long workouts these are the key.

Will do.

tisnotover

aero2k wrote: »

Hello all,

First post here after lurking for several months. I'd like to compliment everyone here on the quality of the posts, it's a great source of knowledge and motivation. I'm wary of posting after an "interesting" experience on the dental forum, but here goes.

These questions are mostly directed at Tergat as OP, but all comments are appreciated.

First some background. Originally a competitive cyclist from 14-16 years old, gave up disillusioned. Ran 1983 DCM after 12 weeks training in 3:18. Kept reasonably fit on and off over the next several years. Returned to competitive cycling in 2000 aged 35. Had 3 relatively good seasons. Took up running again about 3 years ago mainly to encourage my son when he joined the local running club. Jogged/ran a few times a week but never really got into it as I always seemed to have aches and pains in the knees, lower back, ankles etc. About two years ago went away on holiday. Ran every day and eureka! No aches or pains. Trained for '08 DCM with a target of beating my '83 time and a "stretch" goal of sub 3. Ran the 1st half in 1:32 but faded badly over the last 6 to finish in 3:22.
Training was 3 days running per week, 1 speed, 1 tempo, 1 LSR, + 1 bike ride. Did the Addidas series in 32:11, 66:28 and 1:28:48. I'm a bit quicker this year, 31:30 in the Sportsworld 5 mile. I intend to make a serious attempt on a sub 3 DCM '09. I'm currently running around 30 miles per week, with the longest session around 11 miles.

My questions are as follows:

How much should I ramp up the volume and over what period of time?

Given the addidas 1/2m is only 4 weeks before the DCM, is it a bad idea to run it flat out?

What do you think of periodisation, i.e. 3-4 weeks of steadily increasing volume/intensity followed by a relatively easy week?

Am I mad to even attempt a sub 3?

My peak fitness was probably in 2001 when I was riding the bike 6 days per week, total 10-15 hours. Much of this was active recovery, just pedalling to and from work - 40 min each way, with a long slow session and a high intensity day or two. My reason for only running 3 days per week last year was fear of injury, but I've been lucky so far, and think I might benefit from running every day if I get the intensity and volume right.

What do you think?


Thanks,

aero2k

I'm jealous of your times aero2k, 5 miles in 31:30, great stuff.
do you have a recent 5k time as well?

Also on your half marathon time, did you pace the race 50:50 from start or start out slow for first few 5 miles and pick it up?hoping to improve my half time l8r in year and interested to hear.

Thanks,
Kevin

shels4ever

@ Tergat.

Just a quick question in regards to training plans, How often would you revise the tempo and interval paces, i know for top guys the difference in times from peack to off season may not be huge. But for new runners or people on a come back progress just from pure mileage would be high.

I know i took 2.5 mins from my 5k time over about a 6 week period without any major training just pure base work.

So coming from a poor base how would you deal with that. At the moment my 5k pb would be 22:30 but I think that with the marathon base i'll run sub 21 without much training. Is setting tempos and interval based on a 19:59 pace too quick, 9 ( i know i will be running this time in 6 weeks).

Thanks.

aero2k

tisnotover wrote: »

I'm jealous of your times aero2k, 5 miles in 31:30, great stuff.

Thanks Kevin,

Last year I did 32:11 for the Adidas 5m in mid July, so this year I'm a bit quicker in mid-May. The main difference is I'm running at least 4 days per week this year, plus my longer runs are longer than they were this time last year. Also that 31:30 came after a 10 day trip abroad where I ran almost every day and got loads of rest - I'm planning to work my way up to 6/7 days per week over the next 3-4 weeks on Tergat's recommendation.

tisnotover wrote: »

do you have a recent 5k time as well?

No, I've never run a timed 5k. I did a 2 mile in 12:07 at the end of July '08.

tisnotover wrote: »

Also on your half marathon time, did you pace the race 50:50 from start or start out slow for first few 5 miles and pick it up?hoping to improve my half time l8r in year and interested to hear.

Thanks,
Kevin

I always try to run the first mile a little slower than the target average pace and then try to run an even pace thereafter allowing for the gradient - the races in the Phoenix park have sections where you can make a bit of time and some drags where you have to go a little slower to avoid blowing up. I don't have accurate splits but from memory in the 10m I got to 5 in 32:30 and finished in 66:28, and in the 1/2m I think I was about 2 minutes slower for the second half. I need to improve those times if I'm going to have a realistic crack at the sub 3 marathon, so hopefully it's just a question of maintaining the first half pace.
Best of luck with your 1/2.
aero2k

tergat

shels4ever wrote: »

@ Tergat.

Just a quick question in regards to training plans, How often would you revise the tempo and interval paces, i know for top guys the difference in times from peack to off season may not be huge. But for new runners or people on a come back progress just from pure mileage would be high.

I know i took 2.5 mins from my 5k time over about a 6 week period without any major training just pure base work.

So coming from a poor base how would you deal with that. At the moment my 5k pb would be 22:30 but I think that with the marathon base i'll run sub 21 without much training. Is setting tempos and interval based on a 19:59 pace too quick, 9 ( i know i will be running this time in 6 weeks).

Thanks.

shels4ever,

Always set Tempo/LT/CV reps at CURRENT (todays) pace and never GOAL pace. The biggest mistake athletes make is setting training paces faster than they are capable of handling.

Remember overtime you will gradually get fitter and paces for reps will also. Don't rush things, be patient. For you, set your tempo paces for your CURRENT 5km ability and as you get fitter, revise it.

Tergat

tisnotover

aero2k wrote: »

Thanks Kevin,

Last year I did 32:11 for the Adidas 5m in mid July, so this year I'm a bit quicker in mid-May. The main difference is I'm running at least 4 days per week this year, plus my longer runs are longer than they were this time last year. Also that 31:30 came after a 10 day trip abroad where I ran almost every day and got loads of rest - I'm planning to work my way up to 6/7 days per week over the next 3-4 weeks on Tergat's recommendation.

No, I've never run a timed 5k. I did a 2 mile in 12:07 at the end of July '08.



I always try to run the first mile a little slower than the target average pace and then try to run an even pace thereafter allowing for the gradient - the races in the Phoenix park have sections where you can make a bit of time and some drags where you have to go a little slower to avoid blowing up. I don't have accurate splits but from memory in the 10m I got to 5 in 32:30 and finished in 66:28, and in the 1/2m I think I was about 2 minutes slower for the second half. I need to improve those times if I'm going to have a realistic crack at the sub 3 marathon, so hopefully it's just a question of maintaining the first half pace.
Best of luck with your 1/2.
aero2k

Interesting to hear that you saw improvements in your 5 mile time after building upto 4 days/week.I'm just starting to do the same now...
best of luck in your training, do you have a training log by the way, I only started one myself this week(new to forum as well )