What's it like living in an apartment? Would you buy one?

macy9

Forgive my very green question but having lived at home with the parentals and being fortunate that they have a really nice house im wondering what its like to live in an apartment and would those who have bought apartments buy again?

What are the pros and cons? I ask because im looking to buy next year having scrimped and saved a deposit and find it interesting that people would spend €400,000 + to live in an apartment in Bloomfield when you could buy a cottage in Blackrock for the same.

Anyone have any stories about buying their first property as an apartment? Good, bad, indifferent?

tenchi-fan

I rented an apartment before. It was grand. The people below us had their heat on, heat rises, so I rarely had to turn on the heater! It was easy to heat too!

Now isn't a great time to buy as apartments haven't bottomed out in most places. Another consideration is management fees of €2,000+ per year. It might include bins and window cleaning.

The apartment management company might also have rules that you wouldn't have to put up with as a house owner.

havana

Everyone is different but i've lived in and owned apartments since i left home about 10 years ago. I'm currently in the process of buying my 2nd one. For me it's really down to location. Yes, i could buy a house for the same price, and while i probably will eventually, right now owning one would probably mean a commute. For my life now an apartment suits perfectly. I want to live city centre and i don't want to have to do work on what i buy. Right now the thoughts of a 3 hour round trip would be a nightmare. I love that i'm less than 10 mins walk to work.

obviously you get less space for your money but it's plenty for me, has good amenities, secure parking and is lovely and bright. It's in an area i like and know well.

Firetrap

All depends. I lived in one for a while and didn't like it. It was in one of those courtyard type layouts so it had something of an amplifying effect if you had people coming in late from the pub and making noise. I didn't like not having good light coming into my room either in the mornings - the dark bedroom I never got used to. Neither did looking out the window and seeing a wall of apartments across from me. I didn't like only having a balcony either rather than a little garden and the hassle of having to travel a fair bit to get to my car in the underground car park.

Perhaps OP if you've got an idea to buy one, you should rent one for a while and see if it suits you. It didn't suit me one bit but it could suit other people better.

emty

I live in my own apt and would have to say that I would advise anyone to think carefully about what you are getting into.It might be a good idea to rent first,to see if it suits you.Also,legally,you will quickly find out that law,as it concerns apts in this country, is crazy.The developer has you over a barrel.And don't get me started on the managing agent's .Make sure you check the actual location of the apt for sunlight,noise etc.

irlirishkev

I've lived in an apartment for over five years now. I really like apartment living, but I haven't had any bad experiences. The majority of this time was in a small 12 apartment complex. Overlooking a quiet courtyard. It was a large, very bright 1 bed.

I like the fact there's no external upkeep. I've no interest in gardening etc. I also liked having an underground carpark, behind electric gates, which essentially meant my car was safer than in a driveway.

Location aswell, lots more new/next to new apartments in the city centre than new/next to new houses. And I want to live in the city centre. If I wasn't living in the city, then I'd probably live in a house.

Management fees are a bit of a pain. Mine are currently 1200pa, but it's just something else you budget for (if you budget).

Pros and cons I guess to both, but if you're young (which I'm guessing you are), then you could try renting an apartment for a while (and it's a great time to rent) and see what you think..

TaxiManMartin

Ive rented apartments and houses. I like apartments. Sure look how many people in most other countries live in apartments. Its all down to where you want to be and how much you want to pay.

Femgem

I owned an apartment which I was VERY lucky to sell just before the crash. I would never even consider buying one again, I rent now and will buy a house when prices stabilize.

I will do my best to describe the positives and negatives regarding apartment living, I hope it helps you but remember it was only my experience. BTW the apartment was in nice area in South Dublin.

Positives:
There is very little maintenance within the apartment for you to do and no structural maintenance as the management company take care of that.

You don't have a garden to worry about.

Your heating bills will be quite low as the apartment will heat up in about 20 minutes and it then stays hot.

There is a safety element (whether perceived or real) in that you are surrounded by people so if there is a break-in someone will hear you scream.

Some apartment complexes have great community spirit.

Negatives:
The biggest negative for me was the "bigger picture". I was concerned about the state of the apartment complex after 20 / 30 years. I had mortgaged myself for 35 years to own a small piece of a communal building run by a management company I didn't trust. Upon reflection of my purchase this became unacceptable to me.

The management fee is a big issue within apartment complexes. Mine was €1,800 in the final year I was there. This is €150 per month and is hard to justify as you see very little real value for it. With the recession biting and the government planning a property tax I can see people just not being able to pay the management fees. This will lead to deteoriation of buildings, inappropriate sinking funds and reduction in the basic services such as bins and cleaning. The problem is there is virtually nothing you can do if people do not pay their management fees.

Parking is a bit of a nightmare. People take your space and when you have visitors, inevitably the visitor spaces are full and they end up parking a good distance away.

The sound insulation is cronic. You can hear EVERYTHING your neighbours do and this isn't very nice. We had an issue with parties every couple of weeks too, you get to hear the beat of the music in your bedroom well into the small hours of the morning.

If you don't have an own door apartment you will have to go through the communal area. I found that people had no respect for the communal area and although it was cleaned regularly there were serious stains on the carpet and serious marks all over the walls. The management company will paint the walls / replace the carpets every couple of years but a stain could appear the next day and will stay there for years. When I put the apartment up for sale, I literally scrubed the communal area from the front door to the apartment, I had to or no prospective buyers would have made it to the apartment door.

The management company are tough to deal with. If you need something done you have to leave endless messages and send emails regularly. They are also pretty slow to fix communal problems.

A lot of apartments in the complex were rented out and I know this doesn't apply to all renters but some renters just don't care. The significant anti-social behaviour generally came from the rented apartments.

Space is a bit of an issue so if you have any hobbies that requires equipment eg surfboard, golf, even a bike, you'll have to store it in the spare bedroom.

I think that's pretty much it. You will find that a lot of the above could be solved by you becoming part of the management committee but if you don't want that hassle can you depend on someone else to do it?

I would highly recommend if you want to purchase an apartment rent in the complex for a year. Then decide very carefully if you want to put 25 / 30 years of your future earnings into it. And you may say it's only the first rung of the property ladder for you but I believe the property ladder died with the celtic tiger. Buyers of the future will be looking for homes that they won't have to sell if they have kids.

Hope this helps!

Fighting Irish

tenchi-fan wrote: »

Now isn't a great time to buy as apartments haven't bottomed out in most places.
.

All places

Thoie

I'd second a lot of Femgem's points, but not all - a lot comes down to individual complexes.

Femgem wrote: »

The management fee is a big issue within apartment complexes. Mine was €1,800 in the final year I was there.

Everyone seems to complain about the cost of management fees (including me ). It can be very difficult to see where the money is going, particularly if the developers still have control. I budget and save throughout the year to pay the management fee (ours won't accept monthly DDs, for example). Many of my neighbours don't seem to and every single year they stand there whining "Where am I supposed to get that kind of money from?".

Femgem wrote: »

Parking is a bit of a nightmare. People take your space and when you have visitors, inevitably the visitor spaces are full and they end up parking a good distance away.

This isn't really an issue where I live - I've only once in 3 years come home to find someone in my spot, and they were gone very quickly.

Femgem wrote: »

The sound insulation is cronic. You can hear EVERYTHING your neighbours do and this isn't very nice. We had an issue with parties every couple of weeks too, you get to hear the beat of the music in your bedroom well into the small hours of the morning.

Again, not an issue where I live, the soundproofing here seems to be good. As mentioned elsewhere if the apartment faces into a courtyard, noise gets amplified.

Femgem wrote: »

If you don't have an own door apartment you will have to go through the communal area. I found that people had no respect for the communal area ...

Again this varies - my complex has a few different communal areas - some are great, others are poor, it's really the luck of the draw when it comes to neighbours.

Femgem wrote: »

The management company are tough to deal with. If you need something done you have to leave endless messages and send emails regularly. They are also pretty slow to fix communal problems.

Varies by management company, some are good, some aren't. While in theory the owners elect the management company, in reality this doesn't always seem to happen.

Femgem wrote: »

A lot of apartments in the complex were rented out and I know this doesn't apply to all renters but some renters just don't care. The significant anti-social behaviour generally came from the rented apartments.

Very broad brushstrokes, but on the whole I'd agree. More trouble comes from the rented apartments, but it is not the case that all renters cause trouble, if that makes sense.

Femgem wrote: »

Space is a bit of an issue so if you have any hobbies that requires equipment eg surfboard, golf, even a bike, you'll have to store it in the spare bedroom.

Some apartments have good storage facilities within the apartment, the rare few have "lockups" in the underground carpark where you could store things like sports equipment.

Femgem wrote: »

I would highly recommend if you want to purchase an apartment rent in the complex for a year.

Absolutely agree with this - even a 3 or 6 month lease can give you a good idea of things like noise, traffic, neighbours. Use the time to get to know a few owners in the complex and find out their thoughts - talk to the landlord about the costs of management fees, problems he's aware of etc. If you really like the exact apartment you're renting, you could even ask the landlord at the end of the lease if he'd be willing to sell.

Some other cons if you're coming from a large family home - pets. Don't expect to be able to have a pet - this is one of the biggest reasons why a friend of mine won't buy an apartment. She wants a garden and pets, a washing line, satellite TV and the option to knock down internal walls if she wants to. These are all things that may not be allowed in an apartment complex. When you buy an apartment, you sign a lease(?) that may prohibit a lot of these things.

BendiBus

I've lived in apartments for over 12 years and really like it.

The first 4 was renting in a large complex in the city centre. Since then I've owned one in a small 30 unit development a little further out. It's an own door property, no lifts (so lower maintenance fees - lifts are expensive to maintain), loads of parking and secure bike storage.

I'm very happy but the one concern I have is that in a recession, if owners find their finances tight, it might be difficult to get management fees paid, leading to a deterioration in the state of repair of the development.

But so far so good.

Regarding noise, renters etc., unless you live in a detached property with large gardens all around, there's always a risk of a problem.

My worst experience with neighbours was renting in a very posh part of D4, in a semi-D house that peaked in value at over €2million! Could hear everything going on next door - they were owner occupiers and very noisy.

mikemac

You are at the mercy of other residents.

If you move in and the neighbour above has a wooden floor and a fondness for walking on heels, you're fecked.

If you don't have your own entrance, you have people bitching and moaning about you bringing your bicycle to your flat as it may mark the walls.

But they never complain about childs buggies.
Hell, many racing bikes cost more that cars

If I ever purchase, it won't be an apartment and it won't even be a house in an estate. Country living ftw, even if it's an increased commute

BC

I bought an apt a few years ago and have lives in both apartments and houses.

From the point of view of living in an apartment, I think its its fine as long as its a good quality build. Make sure you call to view the place at different times of the day to see what the noise levels etc are. You do usually find more 'issues' with neighbours in an apartment simply because there are more people living in a confined area. If you have 200 houses they are likely to be spread accross multiple streets, if somebody 200 houses away has a party you probably won't even know about it. In an apartment, depending on the layout of the development, you could have 200 apartments very close together meaning that you will always hear the person who is 200 apartments away. It can take a bit of getting used to.

Buying an apartment is a different kettle of fish. Its important that you read up about management companies, management agents and find out about the details of the management company in the development you are buying in to. Legally buying an apartment is very different to buying a house. You don't 'own' the apartment. In legal terms you are leasing the apartment from the management company (for as long as you want). The mgmt company (of which you may or may not be a part of depending on the terms of the company) is your landlord and you are a tenant. When you buy you sign a lease and you are legally bound by the terms of that lease. Its really important to understand how it all works before you decided to go ahead.

SueWho

I currently rent an apartment in a really nice area, it's really well maintained by mgt company and there's no noise at all from other apartments BUT I would never buy one if I could afford a house of some kind instead.

BECAUSE

-You only have one parking space that is officially your's (realistically most people live with at least one other person and they have visitors)
-You have no garden which means no clothes line, no back door to leave dirtly sports gear etc outside.
-You end up using your tumble dryer WAAAY too much- bad for bills, bad for environment.
-There's isn't the same "neighbours" thing going on in apartment blocks. Where people usually get to know their neighbours by being out in the garden washing the car or mowing the lawn, you can't do that in an apartment block.

ULTIMATELY you'll eventually want to upgrade to a house so you might as well cut to the chase and even if you can't buy your dream house to begin with (who can???!!!), start with some kind of a house- you get more out of it for the money you put in and it'll hold it's value for longer.

macy9

Thanks everyone for the insights.

I think everything i love about living in a house; pets, no fighting over car space, sports equipment in the shed, noise-free living (Im an extremely light sleeper) doesn't seem to apply to apartments!

I think il just keep saving for another year. Not sure how much deposit il need though on a €300,000 cottage (asking price)? I have €30,000 saved

First time buyer, single, 'young professional' as AIB calls it. Would i need double that (€60,000)?

SueWho

macy9 wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the insights.

I think everything i love about living in a house; pets, no fighting over car space, sports equipment in the shed, noise-free living (Im an extremely light sleeper) doesn't seem to apply to apartments!

I think il just keep saving for another year. Not sure how much deposit il need though on a €300,000 cottage (asking price)? I have €30,000 saved

First time buyer, single, 'young professional' as AIB calls it. Would i need double that (€60,000)?

Sounds like you're well on the way to getting a ncie little house. You should apply for a mortgage and just see what they say about your deposit and earnings. If you do qualify for the AIB Young Professional Package I reckon 10% deposit will suffice but only they can tell you for sure. Good luck!

irlrobins

If we assume bank will lend 90% of the value of the cottage then you have 10% of the current asking. But don't forget you still have to pay fees (solicitor, valuer, surveyor), possible some improvements (plumbing, elecs, etc) and then you have to buy furniture, pay deposits for elec and gas connections. So you're on your way, but you'll need to save more.

As the poster above said, best thing would be to go to the bank and provide them with all the details of your savings, salary etc and details on the property you want to buy. They'll then be able to give you a rough idea of how much they will lend you. Assuming they lend you anything in the first place. Rejection rate is much higher these days.

amtc

I think I have the best of both worlds. I live in a duplex, so have my own front door, stairs (something in me likes going upstairs to bed), upstairs balcony and front and back gardens (miniscule but mine). I pay a management fee which includes bins, cleaning, gardening, insurance etc of €1100. Extremely well built so can't hear the neighbours.

SoupyNorman

macy9 wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the insights.

I think everything i love about living in a house; pets, no fighting over car space, sports equipment in the shed, noise-free living (Im an extremely light sleeper) doesn't seem to apply to apartments!

I think il just keep saving for another year. Not sure how much deposit il need though on a €300,000 cottage (asking price)? I have €30,000 saved

First time buyer, single, 'young professional' as AIB calls it. Would i need double that (€60,000)?

Ive been renting in Dublin for the last three years, there are elements that I like and most of those have been covered in peoples Pros throughout this thread.

There is plenty that I dont like but my belief is that apartment living should be just the first step onto the property ladder, a person in your position should skip that step and buy a house no question. Although dont be too hasty with your money, let the market do the work for you.


/whisper: prices are plummeting.

techdiver

Personally I have rented an apartments for 4 years now and would never buy one. There are many reasons as already outlined in this thread.

Another one I would add is the neighbour factor. You could be lucky and get nice ones or unlucky and get some one living below you who seems to thinking they are the only person in the development that can hear noise above them and constantly moan and whinge about everything and anything.

I would second the opinion about wooden floors. We have wooden floors in our at the moment and the person living below us has complained about noise from "walking"! It's not as if we are doing a riverdance session in our apartment we are just walking around. These are part of the problem as you may get stuck with some one who is completely unsuited to apartment living and annoy you about stuff that cannot be changed.

JuliusCaesar

Many apartment blocks were just thrown up- they were badly built and badly designed. Many builders didn't even use an architect.
There was no consideration of storage space. A friend of mine asked the estate agent where she'd keep the vacuum cleaner. "In the wardrobe" was his suggestion.

In a house, there's always under-the-stairs or the attic.

The larger the deposit you have the less you borrow! There's a lovely mortgage calculator here which you can use to see what you'd pay on different amounts/duration/interest rates.

TwoShedsJackson

If you're an extremely light sleeper, as you say, do not under ANY circumstances buy an apartment.

DTrotter

Has anyone come across very bad new apartments?

Blackjack

macy9 wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the insights.

I think everything i love about living in a house; pets, no fighting over car space, sports equipment in the shed, noise-free living (Im an extremely light sleeper) doesn't seem to apply to apartments!

I think il just keep saving for another year. Not sure how much deposit il need though on a €300,000 cottage (asking price)? I have €30,000 saved

First time buyer, single, 'young professional' as AIB calls it. Would i need double that (€60,000)?

Below tables may be useful, gives an indication of the amount you need up front based on the valuations at the top. Stamp is applied as it doesn't assume FTB status, so take the Stamp amount away from the "Up Front" figure for FTB amounts.
The "Gross Repayment" amount is based on a rate of 5.94 variable (good for checking the stress test) for a 25 year Mortgage, and the 3 year fixed is based on a rate taken from AIB's website, also based on 25 years.
Neither Figure take into account Mortgage Interest rate tax relief


Valuation 395000 375000 355000 345000 335000
Loan amount (90%) 355500 337500 319500 310500 301500
Deposit 39500 37500 35500 34500 33500
Stamp 18900 17500 16100 15400 14700
Solicitor 4933.17 4691.17 4449.17 4328.17 4207.17
Valuation 150 150 150 150 150
Up front 63483.17 59841.17 56199.17 54378.17 52557.17
Gross repayment 2277.47 2162.15 2046.84 1931.52 1816.21
3 year Fixed (APR 2.68%) 1703 1617 1531 1488 1445



Valuation 325000 315000 305000 295000 285000
Loan amount (90%) 292500 283500 274500 265500 256500
Deposit 32500 31500 30500 29500 28500
Stamp 14000 13300 12600 11900 11200
Solicitor 4086.17 3965.17 3844.17 3723.17 3602.17
Valuation 150 150 150 150 150
Up front 50736.17 48915.17 47094.17 45273.17 43452.17
Gross repayment 1700.89 1585.58 1470.26 1354.95 1239.63
3 year Fixed (APR 2.68%) 1402 1359 1316 1273 1230

Thoie

Blackjack wrote: »

Below tables may be useful,

Those look like very expensive solicitors. Unless the sale is particularly complicated, I think most people would be looking at half to two-thirds of those prices.

Blackjack

Thoie wrote: »

Those look like very expensive solicitors. Unless the sale is particularly complicated, I think most people would be looking at half to two-thirds of those prices.

Possibly, but these are taken directly from PTSB's Detailed Quote for Mortages on their site, so pretty much all I had to go on.

Calculation is based on (1% of Property Valuation+127 Euro)+21%VAT, again taken from the above website.

irlrobins

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

If you're an extremely light sleeper, as you say, do not under ANY circumstances buy an apartment.

Bit of a sweeping statement. Any house could be as noisy as an apartment.

belmulletman

Blackjack wrote: »

Below tables may be useful, gives an indication of the amount you need up front based on the valuations at the top. Stamp is applied as it doesn't assume FTB status, so take the Stamp amount away from the "Up Front" figure for FTB amounts.
The "Gross Repayment" amount is based on a rate of 5.94 variable (good for checking the stress test) for a 25 year Mortgage, and the 3 year fixed is based on a rate taken from AIB's website, also based on 25 years.
Neither Figure take into account Mortgage Interest rate tax relief


Valuation 395000 375000 355000 345000 335000
Loan amount (90%) 355500 337500 319500 310500 301500
Deposit 39500 37500 35500 34500 33500
Stamp 18900 17500 16100 15400 14700
Solicitor 4933.17 4691.17 4449.17 4328.17 4207.17
Valuation 150 150 150 150 150
Up front 63483.17 59841.17 56199.17 54378.17 52557.17
Gross repayment 2277.47 2162.15 2046.84 1931.52 1816.21
3 year Fixed (APR 2.68%) 1703 1617 1531 1488 1445



Valuation 325000 315000 305000 295000 285000
Loan amount (90%) 292500 283500 274500 265500 256500
Deposit 32500 31500 30500 29500 28500
Stamp 14000 13300 12600 11900 11200
Solicitor 4086.17 3965.17 3844.17 3723.17 3602.17
Valuation 150 150 150 150 150
Up front 50736.17 48915.17 47094.17 45273.17 43452.17
Gross repayment 1700.89 1585.58 1470.26 1354.95 1239.63
3 year Fixed (APR 2.68%) 1402 1359 1316 1273 1230

There is also no mention of Surveyor, and from recent experience you're looking at 300-500 (possibly more depending on the house). As for the Solicitor Fees, it's standard to be 1% + Fee's and VAT, although in saying that, you can get good deals now and keep it more at the 1200-1500 (ex. vat and fees - so actually about 2k)

bangersandmash

irlrobins wrote: »

Bit of a sweeping statement. Any house could be as noisy as an apartment.

It is a sweeping statement - location, build quality etc are huge factors. That said from my experience the most common source of noise irritation in apartment is from neighbours above you. Naturally this is not an issue with a house. Nothing grates more than high heels on wooden floors overhead.

Blackjack

belmulletman wrote: »

There is also no mention of Surveyor, and from recent experience you're looking at 300-500 (possibly more depending on the house). As for the Solicitor Fees, it's standard to be 1% + Fee's and VAT, although in saying that, you can get good deals now and keep it more at the 1200-1500 (ex. vat and fees - so actually about 2k)

Fair point re the surveyor, but if you can get the Solicitor cheaper, you could include the surveryor fees in the figures I've given.

Lads - by no means are my calculations going to cover everything nor are the calculations for each part going to be precise in each case. They're mainly to give an idea of what would be needed as regards a lump in advance if someone was looking for a Mortgage to purchase a property, there will be additional costs that are not included above.

TaxiManMartin

Blackjack wrote: »

Below tables may be useful, gives an indication of the amount you need up front based on the valuations at the top. Stamp is applied as it doesn't assume FTB status, so take the Stamp amount away from the "Up Front" figure for FTB amounts.
The "Gross Repayment" amount is based on a rate of 5.94 variable (good for checking the stress test) for a 25 year Mortgage, and the 3 year fixed is based on a rate taken from AIB's website, also based on 25 years.
Neither Figure take into account Mortgage Interest rate tax relief


Valuation 395000 375000 355000 345000 335000
Loan amount (90%) 355500 337500 319500 310500 301500
Deposit 39500 37500 35500 34500 33500
Stamp 18900 17500 16100 15400 14700
Solicitor 4933.17 4691.17 4449.17 4328.17 4207.17
Valuation 150 150 150 150 150
Up front 63483.17 59841.17 56199.17 54378.17 52557.17
Gross repayment 2277.47 2162.15 2046.84 1931.52 1816.21
3 year Fixed (APR 2.68%) 1703 1617 1531 1488 1445


Valuation 325000 315000 305000 295000 285000
Loan amount (90%) 292500 283500 274500 265500 256500
Deposit 32500 31500 30500 29500 28500
Stamp 14000 13300 12600 11900 11200
Solicitor 4086.17 3965.17 3844.17 3723.17 3602.17
Valuation 150 150 150 150 150
Up front 50736.17 48915.17 47094.17 45273.17 43452.17
Gross repayment 1700.89 1585.58 1470.26 1354.95 1239.63
3 year Fixed (APR 2.68%) 1402 1359 1316 1273 1230

Those are crazy prices for solicitors.
Look for a solicitor with "fixed fee conveyancing". Google that in Ireland.
This should cost about €1000. Nobody in this day and age should pay a solicitor a percentage.